Guild Wars 2

You probably have a chart of what traits/weapons/utilities people do not use. There is a good reason they do not as well.

Can you please buff things people do not use?

Daecollo.9578:

You probably have a chart of what traits/weapons/utilities people do not use. There is a good reason they do not as well.

Can you please buff things people do not use?

Agree instead of constant nerf. Buff make thing more competitive and more fun, more viable build, more option, happy player, more player, more asset. I don’t know why Anet does not know this very simple thing.

This always seemed like the obvious first step to me that keeps getting skipped.

It’s also key to the longevity of the game. Offering people opportunities to do new things with their character keeps interest. Nerfing what people can do (or even nerfing their opponents, which everyone seems to rejoice over) does not.

It’s not like the “new stuff” needs to be epic awesome either. We don’t exactly have a lot of tools available at any one time in this game, and the same build gets boring after a while. It’s more like “Finally! I can try this and do something different and it looks like it might not suck!”

So you buff something, and then something else becomes unused. Then you buff that original thing, so on and so forth. Then you have power creep and everything is over the top.

I don’t get the fascination with the cookie cutter builds. You can almost make any weapon on any class work relatively well in this game. You just have to adjust your play style a d your role in the team.

TLDR: don’t wait for buffs to non cookie cutter weapons, make a build and work with it.

You buff things so it become as good as other, give more options to player. I never asked for over buff though but even in the case one thing being over buff, you can still bring it down a bit and people will understand it because it was the buff in the beginning. Just like how Mesmer used to get stack of might from shatter due to overbuff, when they decide to fix it, people not complain much, did they not? Unlike that, Anet nerf things which has been there in the very beginning without giving any buff out, not a lot compare to how they nerf thing.

nerfs lead to the game becoming more bland and destroy builds, at least the way anet is doing it. instead, bring everything up. a way to balance with more fun and choice.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

So you buff something, and then something else becomes unused. Then you buff that original thing, so on and so forth. Then you have power creep and everything is over the top.

Or you could make it equally as viable instead of overpowered, hence no power creep.

Ever played Starcraft: BW? The only unit I could ever describe as unused/useless is the Scout. Everything other unit had a place and there were several builds available because Blizzard actually balanced their game.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

So you buff something, and then something else becomes unused. Then you buff that original thing, so on and so forth. Then you have power creep and everything is over the top.

Are you actually arguing in favor of undesirable traits/weapons etc just staying that way?

Minion of Vey.4398:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

So you buff something, and then something else becomes unused. Then you buff that original thing, so on and so forth. Then you have power creep and everything is over the top.

Are you actually arguing in favor of undesirable traits/weapons etc just staying that way?

He’s just arguing to argue.

Minion of Vey.4398:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

So you buff something, and then something else becomes unused. Then you buff that original thing, so on and so forth. Then you have power creep and everything is over the top.

Are you actually arguing in favor of undesirable traits/weapons etc just staying that way?

You will never have power creep if you take what already exists and balance it around it. The only way to make power creep is if you buff something without thinking about it. A true player knows all about his class he plays and those are the people they /should/ be listening and asking for help for, especially when they ask for new skills/buffs/ideas.

When a player does the /power creep/ they are just afraid of change. Reminds me of a greatsword warrior who doesn’t want to drop his greatsword since none of the other weapons are on-par.

If everything is the same, someone will find a combination that is most optimal. Then you would want a buff to underused items.

What fails in all of your arguments is that there will always be one thing that is the best. When have you ever seen something in which options were balanced. So power creep is not a result of over buffing initially. It is a result of the optimal spec out performing the rest.

And this is not just a video game issue, its very common in life everywhere. Take a second think about it.

I want Anet to make a massive chart of ‘roles in TPvP’
What classes should do what roles and how, what synergies they want between different classes/specs.

From there they can have a clearer direction for their buffs/nerfs, one that the community can fallow and top tier players can comment on/advise/critique pretty correctly.

It’d be far better all around.
The game would get the tweaks it needs and the community wouldn’t feel constantly shaat on.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

If everything is the same, someone will find a combination that is most optimal. Then you would want a buff to underused items.

What fails in all of your arguments is that there will always be one thing that is the best. When have you ever seen something in which options were balanced. So power creep is not a result of over buffing initially. It is a result of the optimal spec out performing the rest.

I don’t think we expect anything near perfect balance, just a greater effort on the part of the designers to make useless skills/utilities/traits/etc. more useful.

Daecollo.9578:

You probably have a chart of what traits/weapons/utilities people do not use. There is a good reason they do not as well.

Can you please buff things people do not use?

Bad logic is bad. Just because something is underused does not mean it is underpowered.

Perfect example are d/d eles. At launch, d/d eles were very rare in sPVP since few people knew how to make it work. Turns out that once players figured out the class mechanics, the “underused” setup/class was actually too strong and is now getting balanced.

The same thing is also true of 100nades engies, and now HGH. The builds were available since launch but the community hadn’t figured them out yet so they weren’t popular.

A small number of people were ahead of the curve and figured these things out early.. then posted videos.. then they became FOTM.

I know of at least two overpowered s/tPVP builds that Anet is unknowingly buffing in the coming patch. They are OP right now and will be even more so in the next patch. I wonder how long it will be before one of these “underused” builds gets posted on the forums and becomes FOTM. I give it about a week, maybe two. Players will be demanding nerfs to previously underused skills

^ shatter mesmer? Rangers? killshot warrior in wvw? D/P thief? engineer condibunkers?

Kharr.5746:

Daecollo.9578:

You probably have a chart of what traits/weapons/utilities people do not use. There is a good reason they do not as well.

Can you please buff things people do not use?

Bad logic is bad. Just because something is underused does not mean it is underpowered.

Perfect example are d/d eles. At launch, d/d eles were very rare in sPVP since few people knew how to make it work. Turns out that once players figured out the class mechanics, the “underused” setup/class was actually too strong and is now getting balanced.

The same thing is also true of 100nades engies, and now HGH. The builds were available since launch but the community hadn’t figured them out yet so they weren’t popular.

A small number of people were ahead of the curve and figured these things out early.. then posted videos.. then they became FOTM.

I know of at least two overpowered s/tPVP builds that Anet is unknowingly buffing in the coming patch. They are OP right now and will be even more so in the next patch. I wonder how long it will be before one of these “underused” builds gets posted on the forums and becomes FOTM. I give it about a week, maybe two. Players will be demanding nerfs to previously underused skills

dude, tell me when will “Acidic Elixirs (Thrown elixirs cause damage when they land.)” EVER be a good choice? (It does 250 damage in berserker gear)

Kharr.5746:

Daecollo.9578:

You probably have a chart of what traits/weapons/utilities people do not use. There is a good reason they do not as well.

Can you please buff things people do not use?

Bad logic is bad. Just because something is underused does not mean it is underpowered.

Perfect example are d/d eles. At launch, d/d eles were very rare in sPVP since few people knew how to make it work. Turns out that once players figured out the class mechanics, the “underused” setup/class was actually too strong and is now getting balanced.

The same thing is also true of 100nades engies, and now HGH. The builds were available since launch but the community hadn’t figured them out yet so they weren’t popular.

A small number of people were ahead of the curve and figured these things out early.. then posted videos.. then they became FOTM.

I know of at least two overpowered s/tPVP builds that Anet is unknowingly buffing in the coming patch. They are OP right now and will be even more so in the next patch. I wonder how long it will be before one of these “underused” builds gets posted on the forums and becomes FOTM. I give it about a week, maybe two. Players will be demanding nerfs to previously underused skills

All of those initially were not used due to bugs or getting buffed along the way.

You are good example of this would be the healing Signet for the warrior. If it is posted a little bit each batch until they eventually reached a good place for balance then wouldn’t that be a great thing? If it’s obvious that a skill is underpowered and underused, then how about you just buff it ever so slightly on the safe side each batch. They’ll be better than doing nothing and eventually will be able to reach a balance level. Right now there is such a lack of build diversity that I hate that I’m forced to play a certain style.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

If everything is the same, someone will find a combination that is most optimal. Then you would want a buff to underused items.

What fails in all of your arguments is that there will always be one thing that is the best. When have you ever seen something in which options were balanced. So power creep is not a result of over buffing initially. It is a result of the optimal spec out performing the rest.

Have you never seen a game in a state of balance or near balance before or something? Are you suggesting we should leave these unused things unused and not even bother buffing them because they “might get too OP”? Not even giving them a niche, like this boon removal crap anet are doing with thief sword?

Maybe we should just nerf warriors some more, so they don’t become too OP. I mean they’re underused, it’s only natural that someone finds another class is more optimal.

Writetyper.1985:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

If everything is the same, someone will find a combination that is most optimal. Then you would want a buff to underused items.

What fails in all of your arguments is that there will always be one thing that is the best. When have you ever seen something in which options were balanced. So power creep is not a result of over buffing initially. It is a result of the optimal spec out performing the rest.

Have you never seen a game in a state of balance or near balance before or something? Are you suggesting we should leave these unused things unused and not even bother buffing them because they “might get too OP”? Not even giving them a niche, like this boon removal crap anet are doing with thief sword?

Maybe we should just nerf warriors some more, so they don’t become too OP. I mean they’re underused, it’s only natural that someone finds another class is more optimal.

non understanders gonna not understand. The only way for level ground would be if every skill did the same thing. You cannot balance two different play styles equally.

That is like trying to make an smg and a sniper rifle do the same damage.
People have found more optimal classes atm. But bringing everything up is worse than bringing everything down.
Skill X is so good, but Skills Y and Z are never used. Hey lets make Y and Z as good as X. Now you have 3 over powered skills instead of bringing them all into balance.
Key is balance. Making everything overpowered is not balance.

Making everything overpowered is not balance!!!!!

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

If everything is the same, someone will find a combination that is most optimal. Then you would want a buff to underused items.

What fails in all of your arguments is that there will always be one thing that is the best. When have you ever seen something in which options were balanced. So power creep is not a result of over buffing initially. It is a result of the optimal spec out performing the rest.

It’s normal for one thing to shine as probably being the best, but we’re not even in the ballpark of where we need to be with choices.

We end up with situations where there’s 1-2 builds…then the rest aren’t just “maybe not quite optimum, but still alright”, but rather utter garbage.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

-snip-

Where did I imply that everything needs to be overpowered instead of just equally useful? Why are you implying this is impossible? I played SC: Brood War for three years and I can’t say that during any point outside of just after release was any race overpowered in the slightest nor any unit beside Scout useless (Besides maybe Protoss at low levels, but hey, we’re struggling to meet balance at one gameplay level here, thieves are always going to kitten on everyone at low skill levels and we can’t stop that).

Going back to the FPS analogy you had before, if we had a sniper that one-shots people at range, an AR that also one-shots people at range but is automatic, and an SMG that has kitten range and takes something like 10 shots to kill, then it’s pretty kittening clear what everyone’s going to be using. You’re implying that everything has to be taken to the AR level of power or something, why not make the AR three shots and buff the SMG instead? Equal power, equal usability, all would have their own “niche”. Otherwise you’ve got kitten just sitting in the files wasting space.

In GW2’s case, there’s weapons/builds that are blatantly unused because they’re just out-shined by something else or just don’t do something as well as another weapon. Why would you NOT buff them to even attempt to make something useful in the long run?

I never said that every skill should do the same thing either, I suggested that unused things aren’t getting used for a reason. They just don’t sync with a build as well as say HGH does. I’m NOT suggesting that you should just make everything operate the same, in fact I think some weapons should be seperated to have their own niche or their own relative builds. Damage buff on mace would be stupid, for example, because then you’d just have warrior axe but now axe is redundant because mace now has weakness and stuns.

Why are you also implying that some state of balance is impossible? I mentioned starcraft before, another game I generally regard as pretty balanced is Dota, I play in the Very High bracket for 50% of matches and the only hero that I see getting consistently picked most All Pick games is Nyx. Out of 100 heroes. Every other hero has some kind of place in a lineup, even the “pubstompers” like Ursa get picked in high too. If you look at competitive tiers: http://d2htl.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/hero-tier-list-march-2013/ the difference between the “High” picks and the rest is kittening nothing, just trying to lever a slight advantage. Most of the case of things being High picks/bans is down to trend, like Dark Seer got no nerfs and buffs and went from an unknown hero to a top consistent pick because VP or someone won a tournament using him consistently, and Wisp while a first ban/pick in the Western scene is occasional at most in China. Heroes even get banned because of the enemy team, Lone Druid is a common respect ban against NTH because of a player called Admiral Bulldog who plays NOTHING but Lone Druid in pubs, pudge gets banned once in a blue moon against Dendi, AM against BurninG, etc. I’m trying to tell you this because balance IS possible to get near to. Perfect balance is of course impossible, even chess has a black bias, but you can get pretty kittening close. You’re saying we shouldn’t even try, we should leave all these traits, builds, weapons and runes that nobody in their right mind uses because of the risk it might make something op? Diddums, nerf it if that happens. Some things are better picks in dota, granted, but the difference between dota and this game is that we’re not talking a balance so close that a 4 damage nerf takes a hero from top pick to unseen (I’m not even joking, this happened to invoker), we’re talking 1-2 hyper-specialised builds per class across 7 classes (because one is kittene) and anything else and you’re just not staying competitive because no traits mesh together as well as hgh engi’s or trap ranger’s do.

“Buffing” something does not mean making it OP, provided it’s balanced correctly. I don’t know why you think that son. If the designers are smart like beaver, it doesn’t mean that in the slightest.

EDIT: And when I say this, I DON’T mean things like buffing guardian scepter to be as good as other ranged weapons, for example. Every class needs to have their strength and weakness. That’s balance. Every class being clones of another is also balance, but it’s also kittening boring.

I’ll bite though, what was a game with good balance?

Edit: Didn’t see the above post. Nvm, just don’t want to argue about this right now. I think devs are doing a flawed, but decent job. Frankly I’m happy all classes can at least perform competitively in GW (yes even warrior to a lesser extent).

Brigg.6189:

I’ll bite though, what was a game with good balance?

I do not think there is a game with balance. Just games with metas.
If a meta is balanced, does not make the game balanced.

Clearly the devs get my point, else they would just be buffing everything, instead of nerfing the strong things like i have been saying.