Guild Wars 2

Currently the Sword number 2 ability for thieves is just out of control.

-It is a weapon skill
-Zero cooldown thus can be used instantly
-Stun breaker, Cures condition, players can teleport out of damage even when stunned or immobilized so there is no way to stop it. Currently it is way more powerful than stability which other classes have to sacrifice a lot to get -warrior stability is 8secs on a 40 secs cooldown or longer cooldowns-

Teleports can be used to teleport on the Z axis -vertically-. Wtf?? Really? Thieves teleporting upwards to the trebuchet in spvp or can be abused by mesmers/thieves on terrain in wvw. If that is allowed then I want my leaps to travel the same distance.

Mesmer Staff 2 has only TEN second cooldown! Blink has 30 second cooldown! There is also decoy as a backup.
Eles have their lightening flash teleport but its one time and on a reasonable 45 second cooldown.

Both shadowstep and mesmer teleports can be used to COMPLETELY bypass downed abilities of most classes.That is just broken. Thieves can now either stealth stomp or shadowstep stomp. Great Dev design. Anet’s version of ‘e-sport’.

Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93QkFtgY06E
now THAT is e-sport! lol..

They are constantly abused due to the fact that neither CC : stun, knockback,knockdown etc or even Immobilize works on it since they teleport away and by the time you reach/find them their immobilize is gone -shadowreturn cures it, anyway-.

How are other classes supposed to compete with that? Poorly thought out mechanic that needs to be fixed now. I see glass cannon thieves abusing shadowreturn all the time, reseting fights, burning your cooldowns and coming back, going in and out of groups untouched -yes we coordinate cc but if that is combined with stealth every 4 seconds with the target appearing miles away then it is useless.

A simple and logical fix would be to remove condition removal on the shadowreturn from Sword, No way for teleport to break immobilize. Stun breaker on a weapon skill is acceptable to help the class carry bad players .

If you want to remove immobilize then use condition removal like the rest of us..if you don’t then that is your problem. Anyone who goes in without condition removal should not be rewarded with this.

So there you have it. One of the worst imbalanced abilities in the game. Shadowreturn and blink. Neither immobilize or stuns work on them. One of which is a weapon skill and is SUPERIOR to stability in every way.

XII.9401:

Currently the Sword number 2 ability for thieves is just out of control.

-It is a weapon skill
-Zero cooldown thus can be used instantly
-Stun breaker, Cures condition, players can teleport out of damage even when stunned or immobilized so there is no way to stop it. Currently it is way more powerful than stability which other classes have to sacrifice a lot to get -warrior stability is 8secs on a 40 secs cooldown or longer cooldowns-

Teleports can be used to teleport on the Z axis -vertically-. Wtf?? Really? Thieves teleporting upwards to the trebuchet in spvp or can be abused by mesmers/thieves on terrain in wvw. If that is allowed then I want my leaps to travel the same distance.

LOL.

Firstly the sword 2 cures ONE condition. It being a weapon skill shouldn’t matter. Yeah it has no cool down, and if you spam IS, you just go back and fourth CCing a player with immob. The only stability a thief can get is by stealing through boons, using steal on a mesmer, or lyssa runes. I fail to see the problem here. They just nerfed it, and you want it nerfed harder?

Seriously, I don’t understand these kinds of people.

Oh, and secondly thief teleports are crucial to their survival. For example, the teleport straight into clock if you were caught by a warriors hundred blades combo. Or just teleport to the platform right in front of the windows of clock.

You clearly don’t play a thief, and are only here to complain.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

LOL.

Firstly the sword 2 cures ONE condition. It being a weapon skill shouldn’t matter. Yeah it has no cool down, and if you spam IS, you just go back and fourth CCing a player with immob. The only stability a thief can get is by stealing through boons, using steal on a mesmer, or lyssa runes. I fail to see the problem here. They just nerfed it, and you want it nerfed harder?

Seriously, I don’t understand these kinds of people.

Oh, and secondly thief teleports are crucial to their survival. For example, the teleport straight into clock if you were caught by a warriors hundred blades combo. Or just teleport to the platform right in front of the windows of clock.

You clearly don’t play a thief, and are only here to complain.

Some people just don’t know how bad it is for Thieves in this game.

Infiltrator’s Strike/Shadow Return: Cures only one condition. It should cure at least three in my opinion. Stun, Immobilize, Cripple or Daze completely negated by a weapon skill. I don’t see the benefit in that at all. (Mercifully we don’t have to waste a valuable Utility slot for this like other classes would have to.) And yeah so what, it has no cool-down, what good is that? Okay I suppose it could be spammed… but for what purpose though? Just to go back and forth keeping the enemy Immobilized? To completely avoid all damage? That’s not handy at all. In fact, it’s a rubbish skill to have.

Yeah, teleports are crucial to our survival because the invisibility (sorry, I mean Stealth) we have is in no way a strong mechanic at all. In fact, I’d go so far as to describe it as near useless. So we need teleports too. To cap it all off, S/D Thieves have to suffer with probably the worst skill in the game – the Flanking Strike/Larcenous Strike chain. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten any kills out of using this one. Pfff.

Honestly, poor Thieves. When I’m playing mine I don’t know how I manage to kill anyone at all.

Thieves have no access to protection… mesmers can kinda get it… but in return for that mesmers have way less access to teleports than thieves. And don’t get me started on how many times phase retreat has screwed me over and pushed me into a wall where in order for me to get out I have to relog and leave my team a man down for 3 minutes… which is a while in a pvp match.

OMG thieves have 2 good skills in a weapon set? better nerf that kitten because i dont like it man and i cant deal with it.

z axis teleports are here to stay and they are great. this thread delivered

EoNxBoNx.9213:

XII.9401:

Currently the Sword number 2 ability for thieves is just out of control.

-It is a weapon skill
-Zero cooldown thus can be used instantly
-Stun breaker, Cures condition, players can teleport out of damage even when stunned or immobilized so there is no way to stop it. Currently it is way more powerful than stability which other classes have to sacrifice a lot to get -warrior stability is 8secs on a 40 secs cooldown or longer cooldowns-

Teleports can be used to teleport on the Z axis -vertically-. Wtf?? Really? Thieves teleporting upwards to the trebuchet in spvp or can be abused by mesmers/thieves on terrain in wvw. If that is allowed then I want my leaps to travel the same distance.

LOL.

Firstly the sword 2 cures ONE condition. It being a weapon skill shouldn’t matter. Yeah it has no cool down, and if you spam IS, you just go back and fourth CCing a player with immob. The only stability a thief can get is by stealing through boons, using steal on a mesmer, or lyssa runes. I fail to see the problem here. They just nerfed it, and you want it nerfed harder?

Seriously, I don’t understand these kinds of people.

Oh, and secondly thief teleports are crucial to their survival. For example, the teleport straight into clock if you were caught by a warriors hundred blades combo. Or just teleport to the platform right in front of the windows of clock.

You clearly don’t play a thief, and are only here to complain.

You can always spot a thief/mesmer player by the typical reply : lol or l2p. They just pee their pants when there is a thread about balancing them.

For shadowstep, it negates immobilize and any cc, right? Right. So its better than stability and is a weapon skill spammable with no cooldown. That sounds OP to me. What is your argument against that? ‘LOL’?

As for stability, I never said remove stun break from shadow return. I said don’t allow it to cure immobilize on the sword skill That way, a sword skill is a guranteed break out of any dps situation

You don’t need the stun break/immobilize removal on a spammable weaon skill.

For stun breaks you have:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roll_for_Initiative
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Signet
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Haste
Slotted
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return_

Notice that some skills that break stun also remove immobilize! Why would they need stability if they had an ability that is better than stability! Remove CC AND immobilize? Yes plz. Lets list them:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return_
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roll_for_Initiative

You say you don’t like those abilities or you don’t slot them? Well too bad..welcome to what every other class has to compromise for to get stunbreakers/immobilize condition removals.

Except for one thing..we don’t have a weapon skill..that is spammable..zero cooldown..that teleports us..that breaks stun..that removes immobilize..that we abuse to stomp fallen targets bypassing their downed abilities..

Teleports are not ‘crucial’ to your survival..unless your a bad thief or one that thinks it is ok for a class to go inside a group, attack and leave with an instant teleport that can’t be stopped. You have the most OP get out of jail card in the game called stealth. Oh yea..you can stealth repeatedly in combat..hmm..You have condition removal and stun breakers that are not weapon skills as listed above. Learn to use them.

As for the stealing boons being useless..does that count for the warrior 30 second elite: Fury, might, Swiftness? How about the long duration potion buffs by Engineers?

Am I missing something?

ahuba.6430:

OMG thieves have 2 good skills in a weapon set? better nerf that kitten because i dont like it man and i cant deal with it.

z axis teleports are here to stay and they are great. this thread delivered

Again, Just to demonstrate to the other professions and the devs the mentality of the players using the thief class to carry them. It is sad that the devs continue to reward them while the overwhelming majority of player base continues to complain about them.

Yep, cater to the minority of customers who will move on to the next class. I’m sure they play a mesmer, too.

Enmity.3428:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

LOL.

Firstly the sword 2 cures ONE condition. It being a weapon skill shouldn’t matter. Yeah it has no cool down, and if you spam IS, you just go back and fourth CCing a player with immob. The only stability a thief can get is by stealing through boons, using steal on a mesmer, or lyssa runes. I fail to see the problem here. They just nerfed it, and you want it nerfed harder?

Seriously, I don’t understand these kinds of people.

Oh, and secondly thief teleports are crucial to their survival. For example, the teleport straight into clock if you were caught by a warriors hundred blades combo. Or just teleport to the platform right in front of the windows of clock.

You clearly don’t play a thief, and are only here to complain.

Some people just don’t know how bad it is for Thieves in this game.

Infiltrator’s Strike/Shadow Return: Cures only one condition. It should cure at least three in my opinion. Stun, Immobilize, Cripple or Daze completely negated by a weapon skill. I don’t see the benefit in that at all. (Mercifully we don’t have to waste a valuable Utility slot for this like other classes would have to.) And yeah so what, it has no cool-down, what good is that? Okay I suppose it could be spammed… but for what purpose though? Just to go back and forth keeping the enemy Immobilized? To completely avoid all damage? That’s not handy at all. In fact, it’s a rubbish skill to have.

Yeah, teleports are crucial to our survival because the invisibility (sorry, I mean Stealth) we have is in no way a strong mechanic at all. In fact, I’d go so far as to describe it as near useless. So we need teleports too. To cap it all off, S/D Thieves have to suffer with probably the worst skill in the game – the Flanking Strike/Larcenous Strike chain. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten any kills out of using this one. Pfff.

Honestly, poor Thieves. When I’m playing mine I don’t know how I manage to kill anyone at all.

You have some of the best condition removal in the game..

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace

kitten ..wish I had that weak kitten ability!

Keep it coming. Your only bumping this thread up and attracting more attention with the ‘valid’ replies.

XII.9401:

Enmity.3428:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

LOL.

Firstly the sword 2 cures ONE condition. It being a weapon skill shouldn’t matter. Yeah it has no cool down, and if you spam IS, you just go back and fourth CCing a player with immob. The only stability a thief can get is by stealing through boons, using steal on a mesmer, or lyssa runes. I fail to see the problem here. They just nerfed it, and you want it nerfed harder?

Seriously, I don’t understand these kinds of people.

Oh, and secondly thief teleports are crucial to their survival. For example, the teleport straight into clock if you were caught by a warriors hundred blades combo. Or just teleport to the platform right in front of the windows of clock.

You clearly don’t play a thief, and are only here to complain.

Some people just don’t know how bad it is for Thieves in this game.

Infiltrator’s Strike/Shadow Return: Cures only one condition. It should cure at least three in my opinion. Stun, Immobilize, Cripple or Daze completely negated by a weapon skill. I don’t see the benefit in that at all. (Mercifully we don’t have to waste a valuable Utility slot for this like other classes would have to.) And yeah so what, it has no cool-down, what good is that? Okay I suppose it could be spammed… but for what purpose though? Just to go back and forth keeping the enemy Immobilized? To completely avoid all damage? That’s not handy at all. In fact, it’s a rubbish skill to have.

Yeah, teleports are crucial to our survival because the invisibility (sorry, I mean Stealth) we have is in no way a strong mechanic at all. In fact, I’d go so far as to describe it as near useless. So we need teleports too. To cap it all off, S/D Thieves have to suffer with probably the worst skill in the game – the Flanking Strike/Larcenous Strike chain. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten any kills out of using this one. Pfff.

Honestly, poor Thieves. When I’m playing mine I don’t know how I manage to kill anyone at all.

You have some of the best condition removal in the game..

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace

kitten ..wish I had that weak kitten ability!

Keep it coming. Your only bumping this thread up and attracting more attention with the ‘valid’ replies.

Except that SE sucks with Sword? In fact, the entire trait line is horrible with sword, and the entire trait line tends to be really bad in tPvP overall anyways because you can’t cap points while stealthed.

On the other hand, SReturn is one of our only condi removers that the sword has; break the condi removal and you practically break the weaponset. Shadow Step has a long cool down and is somewhat difficult to use as a condi remover. Our healing skills only remove a very few select types of condis. And that’s it. That’s all we have.

It’s like me saying that turret engis shouldn’t complain about condi removal because they have CF 409. Which is ridiculous, you can’t use that trait with a turret build. On the other hand, the thief really can’t use an entire weaponset without the condi removal on SReturn.

So no, it does not need a nerf.

I can tell by your posts that you never played a thief. I’ll be short this time: create one, go to tPVP against a good premade and then come back here and delete this topic…

There are some pretty poor counter-arguments by Thieves here, but you’re not helping your case by reeling off wiki links with no respect for the place they have in builds.

Most high-end tPvP builds don’t even have 5 Shadow Arts, so Shadow’s Embrace is a rare occurrence anywhere that isn’t hot-join pub-stomping. Even if you were to use it, you would be doing the following things:

1) Allowing the target to continue capping a point (stealth essentially removes you from the game – you cannot contest points and any Thief using stealth extensively is hurting the team and should be kicked)
2) Wasting time – the exchange of 1 removal every 3 seconds is pitiful when the consequence is to remove yourself from the game. A Guardian can purge conditions in a much more efficient manner while not uncontesting the point he or she is on, while not putting him/herself too far on the defensive. Gradual removal is irrelevant. A Thief should not be designing him/herself around sustainability in that manner – every other class does it better in a competitive environment. Putting yourself out of the game for extended periods to get rid of conditions that got bursted on you – how hilarious.

I would even go so far as to say that you shouldn’t even mention Stealth in competitive PvP – in a mode where capturing and contesting points is a crucial element, talking about a mechanic that prevents interaction with that element is just stupid. If it were to be used at all, it would be for anything other than the main objective, and it would not be used in a sustainable manner that warrants Shadow Arts at all, hence the 25/30/x/x/x madness.

I could reel off every single Mesmer trait and skill and shout LOOK AT THESE OMG ALL OF THESE OP NERF – but they’re not all used at once, and some of them aren’t used at all. Learn to appreciate the actual use of each ability instead of just glossing over tooltips.

Auesis.7301:

There are some pretty poor counter-arguments by Thieves here, but you’re not helping your case by reeling off wiki links with no respect for the place they have in builds.

Most high-end tPvP builds don’t even have 5 Shadow Arts, so Shadow’s Embrace is a rare occurrence anywhere that isn’t hot-join pub-stomping. Even if you were to use it, you would be doing the following things:

1) Allowing the target to continue capping a point (stealth essentially removes you from the game – you cannot contest points and any Thief using stealth extensively is hurting the team and should be kicked)
2) Wasting time – the exchange of 1 removal every 3 seconds is pitiful when the consequence is to remove yourself from the game. A Guardian can purge conditions in a much more efficient manner while not uncontesting the point he or she is on, while not putting him/herself too far on the defensive. Gradual removal is irrelevant. A Thief should not be designing him/herself around sustainability in that manner – every other class does it better in a competitive environment. Putting yourself out of the game for extended periods to get rid of conditions that got bursted on you – how hilarious.

I would even go so far as to say that you shouldn’t even mention Stealth in competitive PvP – in a mode where capturing and contesting points is a crucial element, talking about a mechanic that prevents interaction with that element is just stupid. If it were to be used at all, it would be for anything other than the main objective, and it would not be used in a sustainable manner that warrants Shadow Arts at all, hence the 25/30/x/x/x madness.

I could reel off every single Mesmer trait and skill and shout LOOK AT THESE OMG ALL OF THESE OP NERF – but they’re not all used at once, and some of them aren’t used at all. Learn to appreciate the actual use of each ability instead of just glossing over tooltips.

This.

Stealth has practically become a joke in tPvP. Its (rightful) inability to cap points makes it pretty bad, and people have learnt to counter stealth to the point where nobody really cares about a stealth-spamming thief any more.

XII.9401:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

XII.9401:

Currently the Sword number 2 ability for thieves is just out of control.

-It is a weapon skill
-Zero cooldown thus can be used instantly
-Stun breaker, Cures condition, players can teleport out of damage even when stunned or immobilized so there is no way to stop it. Currently it is way more powerful than stability which other classes have to sacrifice a lot to get -warrior stability is 8secs on a 40 secs cooldown or longer cooldowns-

Teleports can be used to teleport on the Z axis -vertically-. Wtf?? Really? Thieves teleporting upwards to the trebuchet in spvp or can be abused by mesmers/thieves on terrain in wvw. If that is allowed then I want my leaps to travel the same distance.

LOL.

Firstly the sword 2 cures ONE condition. It being a weapon skill shouldn’t matter. Yeah it has no cool down, and if you spam IS, you just go back and fourth CCing a player with immob. The only stability a thief can get is by stealing through boons, using steal on a mesmer, or lyssa runes. I fail to see the problem here. They just nerfed it, and you want it nerfed harder?

Seriously, I don’t understand these kinds of people.

Oh, and secondly thief teleports are crucial to their survival. For example, the teleport straight into clock if you were caught by a warriors hundred blades combo. Or just teleport to the platform right in front of the windows of clock.

You clearly don’t play a thief, and are only here to complain.

You can always spot a thief/mesmer player by the typical reply : lol or l2p. They just pee their pants when there is a thread about balancing them.

For shadowstep, it negates immobilize and any cc, right? Right. So its better than stability and is a weapon skill spammable with no cooldown. That sounds OP to me. What is your argument against that? ‘LOL’?

As for stability, I never said remove stun break from shadow return. I said don’t allow it to cure immobilize on the sword skill That way, a sword skill is a guranteed break out of any dps situation

You don’t need the stun break/immobilize removal on a spammable weaon skill.

For stun breaks you have:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roll_for_Initiative
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Signet
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Haste
Slotted
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return_

Notice that some skills that break stun also remove immobilize! Why would they need stability if they had an ability that is better than stability! Remove CC AND immobilize? Yes plz. Lets list them:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return_
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roll_for_Initiative

You say you don’t like those abilities or you don’t slot them? Well too bad..welcome to what every other class has to compromise for to get stunbreakers/immobilize condition removals.

Except for one thing..we don’t have a weapon skill..that is spammable..zero cooldown..that teleports us..that breaks stun..that removes immobilize..that we abuse to stomp fallen targets bypassing their downed abilities..

Teleports are not ‘crucial’ to your survival..unless your a bad thief or one that thinks it is ok for a class to go inside a group, attack and leave with an instant teleport that can’t be stopped. You have the most OP get out of jail card in the game called stealth. Oh yea..you can stealth repeatedly in combat..hmm..You have condition removal and stun breakers that are not weapon skills as listed above. Learn to use them.

As for the stealing boons being useless..does that count for the warrior 30 second elite: Fury, might, Swiftness? How about the long duration potion buffs by Engineers?

Am I missing something?

I would reply with more detail but someone above has already done that. Stealth is not reliable in competitive play at all. Dodging, and teleports/stun breakers are how a thief is going to survive, not to mention you can die in stealth…

Anyways, there was something that stuck out in your quote. You said stun breakers remove immobilize. This is not true. If you have a teleport that breaks stuns it will move your location but you will still be immobilized.

EDIT: Players like you will not be satisfied until thieves are completely not viable for tPvP, or even more competitive play, such as on pro teams.

XII.9401:

As for the stealing boons being useless..does that count for the warrior 30 second elite: Fury, might, Swiftness? How about the long duration potion buffs by Engineers?

Am I missing something?

Signet of rage is a 48 second (traited) cooldown which can be stolen by a thief for 0 cooldown.

L2p though and all that good stuff…

SmoothHussler.6387:

XII.9401:

As for the stealing boons being useless..does that count for the warrior 30 second elite: Fury, might, Swiftness? How about the long duration potion buffs by Engineers?

Am I missing something?

Signet of rage is a 48 second (traited) cooldown which can be stolen by a thief for 0 cooldown.

L2p though and all that good stuff…

Or don’t pull out the signet against a sword thief and then cry “OP” about it later? It’s like complaining that a necro killed your build that is full glass and runs practically no extra vitality.

This could be a valid argument for roaming in WvW but not for PvP or tPvP. If you are not on a point contesting it or defending it, you are loosing points and bound to loose. Post this topic in WvW

Imo the thief isn’t exactly all that OP. Yet it does have stealth abuse “WvW” and teleport abuse which is good for both. Even if I strongly disagree than the thief needs much nerfing, I do agree that many classes should be raised to the same level of the thief and the guardian. Mainly to feed people with different options for playing styles that perform a role in X or Y way rather than push people into A,B & C class or GTFO of my team. Unfortunately, ANet works way too slow and in ways that don’t seem to solve this problem at all, thus making the progress towards a real competitive game go down the drain as people continues to loose faith in them. Also the fact that most big titles MMOs are going free to play isn’t helping.

The OP has for sure been trolled in Hotjoin by a thief player double or tripple ( maybe even more ) of his skill level.

The vid he posted in addition to the statement below says everything.

This person never played ( or watched ) a tourney at medicore or better level , bc if he would have, he would understand that S#2 is mandatory for survival .

And using Shadowstep to safestop is all right, it’s like other classes Safestomp abilies, perhaps he just does not know about that ….

Same goes for StealthStomping … you either have to use Initiative for that which most of the times is not there right after a kill / or you use a util, like other classes have utils too.

Also perhaps someone should tell him that Stealth != invulnerability .. a guard can still knock you, a ranger still interrupt you … perhaps you will learn when you reach a highter PvP Rank, but honestly i doubt that when all you do is playing HotJoin and complain about thiefs ….

XII.9401:

Enmity.3428:

Some people just don’t know how bad it is for Thieves in this game.

Infiltrator’s Strike/Shadow Return: Cures only one condition. It should cure at least three in my opinion. Stun, Immobilize, Cripple or Daze completely negated by a weapon skill. I don’t see the benefit in that at all. (Mercifully we don’t have to waste a valuable Utility slot for this like other classes would have to.) And yeah so what, it has no cool-down, what good is that? Okay I suppose it could be spammed… but for what purpose though? Just to go back and forth keeping the enemy Immobilized? To completely avoid all damage? That’s not handy at all. In fact, it’s a rubbish skill to have.

Yeah, teleports are crucial to our survival because the invisibility (sorry, I mean Stealth) we have is in no way a strong mechanic at all. In fact, I’d go so far as to describe it as near useless. So we need teleports too. To cap it all off, S/D Thieves have to suffer with probably the worst skill in the game – the Flanking Strike/Larcenous Strike chain. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten any kills out of using this one. Pfff.

Honestly, poor Thieves. When I’m playing mine I don’t know how I manage to kill anyone at all.

You have some of the best condition removal in the game..

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace

kitten ..wish I had that weak kitten ability!

Keep it coming. Your only bumping this thread up and attracting more attention with the ‘valid’ replies.

Mate, I’m a Warrior and I’m taking the mickey out of Thieves.

Read it again.

Mostly just another uninformed thief hate thread – however, one point I will agree with is that being able to do things like use sword #2 to go through the floor of clocktower on Khylo to get to the enemy and then back down is a bit ridiculous and should be looked at – it feels like an exploit of a design flaw in the ability but maybe it is intentional I’m not sure… just seems a kitteneap to me.

XII.9401:

Teleports can be used to teleport on the Z axis -vertically-. Wtf?? Really? Thieves teleporting upwards to the trebuchet in spvp or can be abused by mesmers/thieves on terrain in wvw. If that is allowed then I want my leaps to travel the same distance.

Lol, didn’t you know? PvP Maps are Designed to have a lot of those teleport shortcuts.

Cyhann.2609:

XII.9401:

Teleports can be used to teleport on the Z axis -vertically-. Wtf?? Really? Thieves teleporting upwards to the trebuchet in spvp or can be abused by mesmers/thieves on terrain in wvw. If that is allowed then I want my leaps to travel the same distance.

Lol, didn’t you know? PvP Maps are Designed to have a lot of those teleport shortcuts.

We’re making a progress, from a l2p issue to a default design no issue. Actually I don’t know if this is a progress. Ok nevermind.

Arganthium.5638:

because you can’t cap points while stealthed.

I kid…a little, but seriously—stop painting it as a weakness in conquest mode. Thief is made to be a vulture; picking off the weak or unsuspecting and roaming to trash trebs and steal npc kills. AND THE PROFESSION IF EFFING FANTASTIC AT IT.

Thief also could use some toning down so they can’t dance in and out of a group, nab a kill, and disappear.

Grackleflint.4956:

Arganthium.5638:

because you can’t cap points while stealthed.

I kid…a little, but seriously—stop painting it as a weakness in conquest mode. Thief is made to be a vulture; picking off the weak or unsuspecting and roaming to trash trebs and steal npc kills. AND THE PROFESSION IF EFFING FANTASTIC AT IT.

Thief also could use some toning down so they can’t dance in and out of a group, nab a kill, and disappear.

I agree. Thief shouldn’t be able to kill anything in a team fight, and should spend their time pveing against svanir and chieftain for the entire match, while not being able to contribute to point captures which constitute 80% of a match’s total point revenue.

Yep.

Grackleflint.4956:

Arganthium.5638:

because you can’t cap points while stealthed.

I kid…a little, but seriously—stop painting it as a weakness in conquest mode. Thief is made to be a vulture; picking off the weak or unsuspecting and roaming to trash trebs and steal npc kills. AND THE PROFESSION IF EFFING FANTASTIC AT IT.

Thief also could use some toning down so they can’t dance in and out of a group, nab a kill, and disappear.

So, you don’t want them to help cap points, and you also don’t want them to be efficient at anything not involving the points.

Admit it – you just want the class deleted. You cannot justify your logic in any other way.

That’s about a 9 on the tension scale there, rube. What I want is Thieves to L2P to their strengths. Stick to team fights, roaming, back capping, and secondaries. If you don’t think any of those matter or aren’t enough you’re a greedy glory hound that just wants it all.

Arganthium.5638:

SmoothHussler.6387:

XII.9401:

As for the stealing boons being useless..does that count for the warrior 30 second elite: Fury, might, Swiftness? How about the long duration potion buffs by Engineers?

Am I missing something?

Signet of rage is a 48 second (traited) cooldown which can be stolen by a thief for 0 cooldown.

L2p though and all that good stuff…

Or don’t pull out the signet against a sword thief and then cry “OP” about it later? It’s like complaining that a necro killed your build that is full glass and runs practically no extra vitality.

Fair enough, but the point I was trying to make was that boons are kinda hard to make for certain professions and a skill which can be spammed over and over stealing them seems kinda unbalanced.

Perhaps its time thieves had mechanics to generate more of their own boons?

Arganthium.5638:

XII.9401:

Enmity.3428:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

LOL.

Firstly the sword 2 cures ONE condition. It being a weapon skill shouldn’t matter. Yeah it has no cool down, and if you spam IS, you just go back and fourth CCing a player with immob. The only stability a thief can get is by stealing through boons, using steal on a mesmer, or lyssa runes. I fail to see the problem here. They just nerfed it, and you want it nerfed harder?

Seriously, I don’t understand these kinds of people.

Oh, and secondly thief teleports are crucial to their survival. For example, the teleport straight into clock if you were caught by a warriors hundred blades combo. Or just teleport to the platform right in front of the windows of clock.

You clearly don’t play a thief, and are only here to complain.

Some people just don’t know how bad it is for Thieves in this game.

Infiltrator’s Strike/Shadow Return: Cures only one condition. It should cure at least three in my opinion. Stun, Immobilize, Cripple or Daze completely negated by a weapon skill. I don’t see the benefit in that at all. (Mercifully we don’t have to waste a valuable Utility slot for this like other classes would have to.) And yeah so what, it has no cool-down, what good is that? Okay I suppose it could be spammed… but for what purpose though? Just to go back and forth keeping the enemy Immobilized? To completely avoid all damage? That’s not handy at all. In fact, it’s a rubbish skill to have.

Yeah, teleports are crucial to our survival because the invisibility (sorry, I mean Stealth) we have is in no way a strong mechanic at all. In fact, I’d go so far as to describe it as near useless. So we need teleports too. To cap it all off, S/D Thieves have to suffer with probably the worst skill in the game – the Flanking Strike/Larcenous Strike chain. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten any kills out of using this one. Pfff.

Honestly, poor Thieves. When I’m playing mine I don’t know how I manage to kill anyone at all.

You have some of the best condition removal in the game..

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace

kitten ..wish I had that weak kitten ability!

Keep it coming. Your only bumping this thread up and attracting more attention with the ‘valid’ replies.

Except that SE sucks with Sword? In fact, the entire trait line is horrible with sword, and the entire trait line tends to be really bad in tPvP overall anyways because you can’t cap points while stealthed.

On the other hand, SReturn is one of our only condi removers that the sword has; break the condi removal and you practically break the weaponset. Shadow Step has a long cool down and is somewhat difficult to use as a condi remover. Our healing skills only remove a very few select types of condis. And that’s it. That’s all we have.

It’s like me saying that turret engis shouldn’t complain about condi removal because they have CF 409. Which is ridiculous, you can’t use that trait with a turret build. On the other hand, the thief really can’t use an entire weaponset without the condi removal on SReturn.

So no, it does not need a nerf.

But you can still use:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Signet
and
utility http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep

While still using Shadow return:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace

You don’t have to be sword thief to abuse shadow step twice every 30-40 secs right? You can remove stun and get rid of any immobilize while leaving a distance between you and your target every 30-40 sec while having one of the best condition removals in the game also, right?

The point is that shadowstepping Breaks stun and bypasses any kind of immobilize etc and can be used twice every 30-40 secs.

The thread is about shadow stepping not poison removal.

Sounds like it needs balancing.

Cyhann.2609:

XII.9401:

Teleports can be used to teleport on the Z axis -vertically-. Wtf?? Really? Thieves teleporting upwards to the trebuchet in spvp or can be abused by mesmers/thieves on terrain in wvw. If that is allowed then I want my leaps to travel the same distance.

Lol, didn’t you know? PvP Maps are Designed to have a lot of those teleport shortcuts.

Do warriors have access to that?
Necros?
How about Engys?
Guardians?
Well Eles and mesmers have it on zero cool down, right? No wait..

Sounds to me like the thief class is the one abusing it most. I don’t think the spvp maps were created to help carry the thief class players even more..

Arganthium.5638:

SmoothHussler.6387:

XII.9401:

As for the stealing boons being useless..does that count for the warrior 30 second elite: Fury, might, Swiftness? How about the long duration potion buffs by Engineers?

Am I missing something?

Signet of rage is a 48 second (traited) cooldown which can be stolen by a thief for 0 cooldown.

L2p though and all that good stuff…

Or don’t pull out the signet against a sword thief and then cry “OP” about it later? It’s like complaining that a necro killed your build that is full glass and runs practically no extra vitality.

So wait..in order to combat a basic spammable zero cool down weapon skill on a class..another class should not use its only valid ELITE skill?

I got a better idea..how about you fix that regular spammable zero cool down weapon skill? Sounds more fair to me!

Sadly, I don’t think the game is called Thief Wars where everything should be balanced around thieves and everyone has to trait/build their stats to fight one single class.

lvis.3824:

The OP has for sure been trolled in Hotjoin by a thief player double or tripple ( maybe even more ) of his skill level.

The vid he posted in addition to the statement below says everything.

This person never played ( or watched ) a tourney at medicore or better level , bc if he would have, he would understand that S#2 is mandatory for survival .

And using Shadowstep to safestop is all right, it’s like other classes Safestomp abilies, perhaps he just does not know about that ….

Same goes for StealthStomping … you either have to use Initiative for that which most of the times is not there right after a kill / or you use a util, like other classes have utils too.

Also perhaps someone should tell him that Stealth != invulnerability .. a guard can still knock you, a ranger still interrupt you … perhaps you will learn when you reach a highter PvP Rank, but honestly i doubt that when all you do is playing HotJoin and complain about thiefs ….

-Nice tactic. Instead of lol or L2P you try and discredit the OP. Wonder if that works, anymore?

-Spammable teleport that gets out of stun immobilize + dodge+ repeated stealth + Slotted shadow steps is mandatory for survival for people who need to get carried by their class, totally agree with you there.

-You don’t need initiative for shadowstep via utility skills..it only costs 5 initiative for sword shadow step stomping.
Wait..you actually think that Shadow Step stomping that bypasses downed abilities is OK?? Ooh sorry..i miss understood.

-Yea! People can still knock you while your stealthed! Too bad they have to see you 1st to knock you! And even if they knock you they still have to see where you are! And even if they knock you they can’t chain combos/abilities on you because they can’t see you!
Did you know..that stealth classes in almost every other mmorpg get revealed when attacked during stealth? They also don’t stealth repeatedly as much? Wow..mind blowing to know those facts when you aren’t busy being carried by a class.

Or are the points I mentioned not as valid and logical as your thinly veiled L2P reply? I suggest you join high end tourneys as a warrior..I mean if you are doing great in high end tourneys then it wouldn’t be the thief class carrying you but your skill will shine through playing a warrior, I’m sure. Post vids plz.

Tnx for bumping the thread.

XII.9401:

Arganthium.5638:

SmoothHussler.6387:

XII.9401:

As for the stealing boons being useless..does that count for the warrior 30 second elite: Fury, might, Swiftness? How about the long duration potion buffs by Engineers?

Am I missing something?

Signet of rage is a 48 second (traited) cooldown which can be stolen by a thief for 0 cooldown.

L2p though and all that good stuff…

Or don’t pull out the signet against a sword thief and then cry “OP” about it later? It’s like complaining that a necro killed your build that is full glass and runs practically no extra vitality.

So wait..in order to combat a basic spammable zero cool down weapon skill on a class..another class should not use its only valid ELITE skill?

I got a better idea..how about you fix that regular spammable zero cool down weapon skill? Sounds more fair to me!

Sadly, I don’t think the game is called Thief Wars where everything should be balanced around thieves and everyone has to trait/build their stats to fight one single class.

It’s called a hard counter. Furthermore, it’s a friggin’ signet, it can be used without having to press the button.

And it’s really not zero cool down. Seriously, I suggest you go play a thief yourself and then tell me how easy the initiative system is to master and abuse, when each skill on each weapon has to draw from the exact same resources.

SmoothHussler.6387:

Arganthium.5638:

SmoothHussler.6387:

XII.9401:

As for the stealing boons being useless..does that count for the warrior 30 second elite: Fury, might, Swiftness? How about the long duration potion buffs by Engineers?

Am I missing something?

Signet of rage is a 48 second (traited) cooldown which can be stolen by a thief for 0 cooldown.

L2p though and all that good stuff…

Or don’t pull out the signet against a sword thief and then cry “OP” about it later? It’s like complaining that a necro killed your build that is full glass and runs practically no extra vitality.

Fair enough, but the point I was trying to make was that boons are kinda hard to make for certain professions and a skill which can be spammed over and over stealing them seems kinda unbalanced.

Perhaps its time thieves had mechanics to generate more of their own boons?

It depends on the profession. Guards and engis have no problem generating boons, for example. Warriors… For some reason, warriors always seem to have a decent number of boons on them. Kinda odd to me.

The thing is- there needs to be some kind of counter to boons. If boon steal is taken away, then stuff like HGH is bound to come back and wreck the arena. At least for now HGH has a very viable counter. If thieves can’t boon steal, then that only leaves Necro as a viable counter to HGH, which is an extremely small list of professions to pick from. -_- anyhow, builds that have a few boons tend not to rely on them that much anyways, and they have such short duration that they tend to disappear very quickly after being stolen, while builds that do rely on boons tend to have so many boons, it’s difficult to steal the ones that really matter, like the 25 stacks of might.

Just this…

!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayUL9qi5G5U!

People ranting about stealth or thief viability in tpvp (when the winners of the Masters of the Mists tournament hosted by gw2guru were running an extremely effective s/d thief Jumper X)

This thread is about weaponskill teleports that essentially function as a stunbreak. On 0-10s cooldowns. I have no idea how people are claiming that this is not just flagrantly OP.

I can safely state for a fact that the initiative cost on Infiltrator’s Strike/Shadow Return is complete piddling when you use it appropriately (i.e., actually using it to avoid damage and not “spam it” as some people trying to Strawman OP are saying)

Just to draw a stark comparison a Warrior’s Lowest cooldown Stunbreak is on a 25s CD, on a utility skill. As OP has stated, thief and mesmers don’t even have to give up a utility slot for the extremely vital stunbreaking ability. Thief has it especially ridiculous due to being able to abuse the vertical axis, having it virtually on demand, as well as it cleansing a condition, meaning most likely it’ll be cleansing immobilize as well. Mesmer has something similar, albeit less effective, having a 10s CD on Phase Retreat.

XII.9401:

Cyhann.2609:

XII.9401:

Teleports can be used to teleport on the Z axis -vertically-. Wtf?? Really? Thieves teleporting upwards to the trebuchet in spvp or can be abused by mesmers/thieves on terrain in wvw. If that is allowed then I want my leaps to travel the same distance.

Lol, didn’t you know? PvP Maps are Designed to have a lot of those teleport shortcuts.

Do warriors have access to that?
Necros?
How about Engys?
Guardians?
Well Eles and mesmers have it on zero cool down, right? No wait..

Sounds to me like the thief class is the one abusing it most. I don’t think the spvp maps were created to help carry the thief class players even more..

Actually guardian sword #3 is a teleport. :P And so are a couple of their utilities… Sooo just saying… Guardians can use it too provided they have a target.

You guys really just need to ignore this thread…He doesn’t even know if you spam IS it acts as a CC, unless you are moving onto a point with someone targeted.

The sword 2 ability is close to balanced, but quite annoying when used in an abusive fashion with terrain/LOS to duck in and out of a fight (i.e. from bottom of clocktower, from bottom of keep, etc). Normally this skill has a nice counter which is drawing the fight toward the white circle that is visible on the ground as the shadow return spot. The use of this ability to go through walls/terrain removes this counter.

One fix you could do to maintain the function of the ability is to increase the initiative cost if the skill does not land on a target (i.e. the Ride The Lightening treatment). Alternatively, you could increase the initiative cost when used on a target that is not in LOS. These would be small changes that would help to bring the skill in line with other weapon skill gap closers that have cooldowns and/or require LOS.

I think S/D is fine for the most part, but sword 2 needs a 1/4 second cast time. Zero cooldown stun breakers are game breaking.

As of todays patch teleport was nerfed.
I cant speak for sword thieves but from shortbow : d/p we are as lethal and survivable as a piece of toilet paper unraveling from a roll

Todays mechanic change hit Sword thieves and DPS Meditation Guardians extremely hard.