Guild Wars 2

I really think the best change for pvp would be to make the Ascended armor just a skin, tbh there’s too much dead weight in half of my matches this season.

" But if theyre crappy pve players why are they in your game if you’re good" A: Because you can be at 1900 mmr and be queued with and against players at 1600.

If you want healthy PvP you need a certain population else your game mode dies.

Guess what, without incentive to at least try many people wouldn’t touch PvP with a stick because all people here about competitive play is: The community is toxic.

Edit: I just realized, you said A: … uhm… what is B:? You only start something like A: if you are trying to work out a list or something.

so if all the pve players leave and the player base shrinks your still going to be complaining about being matched down in mmr except instead of 1900 with 1600 itl be 1800 with 1500 unless you want to wait an hour for a match and even then itll still prolly be lopsided and ull still try and scramble for an excuse as to why you lost a match.

Bogy.2953:

so if all the pve players leave and the player base shrinks your still going to be complaining about being matched down in mmr except instead of 1900 with 1600 itl be 1800 with 1500 unless you want to wait an hour for a match

I’d much rather wait an hour in queue like the old system and queue into the same 50 people at my MMR then waste time queuing with people feeding for ascended.

Ninski.5680:

Bogy.2953:

so if all the pve players leave and the player base shrinks your still going to be complaining about being matched down in mmr except instead of 1900 with 1600 itl be 1800 with 1500 unless you want to wait an hour for a match

I’d much rather wait an hour in queue like the old system and queue into the same 50 people at my MMR then waste time queuing with people feeding for ascended.

and what if theirs just no one online in ure bracket? wait forever and possibly never get a match because the player base is tiny? not a real solution for the vast majority of players

I highly doubt that Ninski, actually, i not only doubt that, i’m a 100% certain that as soon as you’d have to wait that long for a queue to get you into a round you’d go to another game and tell A-Net with the most heinous language that they destroyed the game.

In regards to
LouWolfskin.3492

“If you want healthy PvP you need a certain population else your game mode dies.

Guess what, without incentive to at least try many people wouldn’t touch PvP with a stick because all people here about competitive play is: The community is toxic."

Most people don’t think that far ahead as I am roaming the forums today the consistent nature of this subject just seems to keep popping up slightly toxic pvp player base has made it a point to say these free ascended items need to go along with the pvers and WvWers that come with them but the reality is w/o anet trying to lure Pvers Or WvWers to PvP to shore up the numbers as much as they can the people who only pvp will find them selves with extremely long que times and being farmed by the top tier players I do agree though that Anet Should make these rewards obtainable via winning a certain amount of matches rather then ill just que up Netflix and chill until my team loses reque and now I have pips for my new gear!

What you can do is leave as soon as you see that your teammates aren’t good enough for you. That way you’ll get your long wait and (eventually) get the teammates you want. A win win for all imo.

Luciferior.4802:

In regards to
LouWolfskin.3492

“If you want healthy PvP you need a certain population else your game mode dies.

Guess what, without incentive to at least try many people wouldn’t touch PvP with a stick because all people here about competitive play is: The community is toxic."

Most people don’t think that far ahead as I am roaming the forums today the consistent nature of this subject just seems to keep popping up slightly toxic pvp player base has made it a point to say these free ascended items need to go along with the pvers and WvWers that come with them but the reality is w/o anet trying to lure Pvers Or WvWers to PvP to shore up the numbers as much as they can the people who only pvp will find them selves with extremely long que times and being farmed by the top tier players I do agree though that Anet Should make these rewards obtainable via winning a certain amount of matches rather then ill just que up Netflix and chill until my team loses reque and now I have pips for my new gear!

It should change HOW you get them, sure, but removing them isn’t the answer is all i’m saying.

Just to make a mental note of it back in S3-S4 If you roamed Heart of the mists while waiting for a que you heard a lot of people complaining about how long they were taking While I suspect not all will make such an issue Most would and that is just going off the general trend that is apparent when you enter the mists and ask what are the que times like for today So if the masses who ever that is want shorter ques they need more people in the population and in order for that to happen you have to dangle the carrot here From PvER perspective looking at pvp not account for ascended gear "Why would I go to pvp? be in an toxic environment that in general despises anyone that plays other game modes besides PvP and for lack luster rewards? While noting the toxic nature of the game in general you can go into any game mode and find it ..but Unlike PvP PvE And WvW has some rewards that at least encourage a player to be willing to do it as opposed to going to pvp to get belittled because they think your bad or what ever ego stroke reason they have for the day

LouWolfskin.3492:

I highly doubt that Ninski, actually, i not only doubt that, i’m a 100% certain that as soon as you’d have to wait that long for a queue to get you into a round you’d go to another game and tell A-Net with the most heinous language that they destroyed the game.

I used to sit in ranked queues for over an hour with the old pvp system, I was legendary every season within the first 2-3 weeks, sometimes there was only 15-20 people that grinded to diamond\legend in that time period as well.

You can walk into Spvp, do your 10 placement matches, be placed in bottom tier gold, queue into anyone from 1500-2200, have hardly an idea of how to pvp, dont care if you win or lose, because either way you’re going to get free ez ascended gear, honestly if i was more of a pve player i might be upset by how easy this is to get, maybe next season Anet should hand out free old Legendary weapons next while they’re at it.

Oh I agree with you LouWolfskin removing those rewards would send the pvp community back down to long que times The rewards should be earned not farmed no doubt but if Arena net does as the majority of the PvP community is suggesting removing these rewards completely all the players that came for them are leaving also because reality is these rewards are likely the main reason why they in pvp to begin with

The concept of these items being free is a bit of an exaggeration tbh while they are *A lot easier to get vs ascended in PvE Or WvW no argument they still require the player queing up and half kitten playing the match as most of the players who are doing it for the rewards are just throwing the matches As someone who PvPs PvEs I can say yes its insulting to see the gear being offered here for a lot less effort and its brought out the worst part of the PvE Community and that is the player base that wants the best rewards for the least amount of work Sadly there are players like that in most game modes This is why we cant have nice things

They should just standardize the reward pips for both wins/losses. Play 50 games and get all loot. If a PvE player isn’t hooked by then, they should get out with their loot. I’m not going to even guess how many games are required, if mostly losses, to max out the reward chests for season.

I really don’t want pve rewards removing. I am pvp main but I also like pve and getting rewards for pve by doing what I enjoy is great. I earned over 1000 gold in rewards from pvp this season and that feels great. It doesn’t feel like grinding when you earn so much by doing what you enjoy and to be forced to pve to earn rewards would be a really bad decision.

There is always going to be awful players even if there is no pve rewards. Some players are just useless, and not just because they pve mainly. so removing rewards will not keep bad players out of your matches and instead it will only harm yourself and the rest of the pvp population.

I agree they shouldn’t be removed but they should be earned ascended armor/weapons/trinkets with selectable stats shouldn’t be farmable by losing matches I personally would rather win my matches so I can get the gear w/o having to throw 300 straight matches the time invested to lose all those matches to get a pip or 2 at a time Well lets just say “Aint no one got time for that” * at least I hope no one has time for that

Luciferior.4802:

I agree they shouldn’t be removed but they should be earned ascended armor/weapons/trinkets with selectable stats shouldn’t be farmable by losing matches I personally would rather win my matches so I can get the gear w/o having to throw 300 straight matches the time invested to lose all those matches to get a pip or 2 at a time Well lets just say “Aint no one got time for that” * at least I hope no one has time for that

Exactly, playing Spvp for gear that is only useful in PVE, it makes no sense, if they wanted pvpers to have the skin, make it a skin, not an item with stats.

If people say they are afk’ing for ascended I’m pretty sure they are lying, You don’t get winning pips for losing and you don’t get top stats pips for being afk. Basic math says that tryharding will get ascended gear significantly faster than afk’ing.

The “I’m afk’ing for ascended” people sound like trolls playing on stereotypes.

That is Arena Nets way of getting other players into PvP it isn’t intended for people who only PvP who have no use for items with stats Its intended to for the purpose of getting Players who don’t PvP Into PvP with an incentive and in this case the incentive is more rewarding to lose rather then to try and get it via winning I agree with you that ascended items most likely mean nothing to people who only pvp which is why I am confident in the theory that the rewards are for people trying out pvp for the new season Anet is more than aware that the general Straight up PvP only player base is small when you compare it to people who PvE or WvW… In general from a PvE Or WvW perspective besides these ascended chests what reason is there for a PvE or WvW based player to enter pvp? Some do it for the challenge or competition granted Or are achievement point hunters but most like the reward and if the reward isn’t worth it the incentive isn’t enough to get them there As I see it to be more of a marketing perspective from Arena Nets part Its easier for them to get PvE players or WvW players Into PvP with rewards they can use In their respective game modes as Opposed to encouraging PvP only players to enter PvE Or WvW as it has been the long standing trend in my experience Most PvP only players aren’t fond of PvE or WvW for various reasons And thus Arena Net isn’t likely concerned with getting PvP main players Into PvE Or WvW but the reverse

No crinn you are correct you don’t get *Winning Pip amounts for losing but you do get a single pip for losing and those pips add up after a while I can assume there is no one *hopefully straight up intending to lose every single match and farm ascended armor 1 pip at a time the progress while slow is enough to get you there over the season ofc the dedication to such laziness is beyond imagination However some players will go to these lengths for those items when weighed vs spending hundreds of gold to craft a set of armor or do fractal runs daily via completion to get these items and hope its the stat you need vs winning a few matches and losing most to get armor you can pick any stat you want and get nearly if not a full set

You can see it perspective wise from this example Most people wanting the rewards will likely enter PvP hoping to win and get the big bundle of pips to get those rewards fast but as with most things if winning requires more then minimal effort one can simply shrug and go well sure I wont get the big pip bundle but I still get one even if we lose I can still make progress on the armor and get there eventually without having to try too hard with that mind set one may afk without concern of whether or not they are actually going to win While I do believe there should be some progress to the rewards if you lose it should be amount wise more of a consolation prize like half a pip that way you get something for at least trying but if you want the final result you have to actually put some effort in rather then just queing up and coin flipping I suspect if there was no pip progress for losing You would see either 2 things More people actively trying to win Or less people in PvP in general that would cycle out the people who intend to put in the effort to get better and win Vs people who realize if they lost they aren’t rewarded for it and thus they will go elsewhere

Luciferior.4802:

1 pip at a time the progress while slow is enough to get you there over the season ofc the dedication to such laziness is beyond imagination

What’s the point of “afking” a match only to sit at the keyboard telling everyone on your team why you are “afk.”

If somebody is telling you why they are “afk” they aren’t there to afk, they are there to troll. They are telling you they are there for rewards to get a emotional rise out of you.

No one has ever told me they were afking for the loot Maybe others have had this happen to them but there is no mistaking a person who stands at your spawn after dying twice and refuses to contribute to the rest of the match rewards or not If everytime you lose a capture point and your team is dying but you see the same person on your team standing still in the spawn I can only assume he is trying to pike the match While there is an inactivity timer for PvP for not moving or using skills it isn’t too hard to sit at your computer press an attack to prevent the timer from kicking you out Maybe they are there to troll maybe not the point is made though they are being rewarded for doing such while as slow as that progress may be it will still get them there or very close to the same result if they just put in the work all that differs is the time invested actively

-old man voice- Back in my day the only rewards we got were PVP only gear with token Mystic Forging , glory, and the long term rank grinding for Dragon Rank. We obviously need to go back to that system because it was much better, no PVErs coming into my games for rewards!

Lucentfir.7430:

-old man voice- Back in my day the only rewards we got were PVP only gear with token Mystic Forging , glory, and the long term rank grinding for Dragon Rank. We obviously need to go back to that system because it was much better, no PVErs coming into my games for rewards!

I miss the Token system….

Side note: I think they should keep rewards BUT lower the starting MMR to 900 or so, it’s bad having new PvP players start mid-top and free fall their way down dragging people with them. They do NOT have an average players skill and should not start halfway, it’s unhealthy to the average gamers…

In regards to sephiroth.4217" Side note: I think they should keep rewards BUT lower the starting MMR to 900 or so, it’s bad having new PvP players start mid-top and free fall their way down dragging people with them. They do NOT have an average players skill and should not start halfway, it’s unhealthy to the average gamers…" Sometimes players end up in higher ratings even if they don’t belong there because of how they placed If they got some solid match ups they won over teams that they should have lost to they get placed higher *assuming I understand match making correctly When they drop down in rating its to find out where they belong division wise arguably I my self placed T3Gold when I started the season like 1640 rating highest I ever got did I stay that high? Negative I fell like a rock down to Gold t1 arguably where I belong while I cant say for certain the match making system works good or bad I know deep down I’m borderline an average player and for me to finish out even at gold t1 I probably got lucky

PvE players are fine it’s just the rating at start is too high and matchmaking puts 1200 vs 1950 sometimes.

Make the rating for new player 900 or 800 and make the MMR limit on teams within 300 rating or something.

Luciferior.4802:

In regards to sephiroth.4217" Side note: I think they should keep rewards BUT lower the starting MMR to 900 or so, it’s bad having new PvP players start mid-top and free fall their way down dragging people with them. They do NOT have an average players skill and should not start halfway, it’s unhealthy to the average gamers…" Sometimes players end up in higher ratings even if they don’t belong there because of how they placed If they got some solid match ups they won over teams that they should have lost to they get placed higher *assuming I understand match making correctly When they drop down in rating its to find out where they belong division wise arguably I my self placed T3Gold when I started the season like 1640 rating highest I ever got did I stay that high? Negative I fell like a rock down to Gold t1 arguably where I belong while I cant say for certain the match making system works good or bad I know deep down I’m borderline an average player and for me to finish out even at gold t1 I probably got lucky

I think you’re being a bit modest and maybe you do belong that high

I just think the side note suggestion would help keep The reward farmers at the bottom of bronze and give people who are interested in PvP a chance to climb and continually climb the better they get.

As Fishball said too, need a hard cap on those ratings in games. I’m Gold now but I had to work through Silver fighting Platinum/Legendary/top 20 players.

as many sensible posters have said, rewards are needed to have a healthy population.
average/scrub players are important too, you know so they have other scrubs to play against.

the main issue is afking for loot. so the simple solution is to radically reduce the loot for a loss. so they are heavily incentivised to win games. easy.

Here is a much better and less short sighted way to give everybody what they want. Give Pips for loses, but tie it to some invisible personal score (old personal score system). So something like top score but less strict. The only way to get the points for the win is by reaching a point tier.

You can only get that score by reaching that personal score tier and you don’t see your score until the end.