Guild Wars 2

A future nerf to D/D Elementalists is inevitable, something needs to change and I (sorta) trust ANET to eventually make the move to do so. However, please please please keep in mind that there are other builds for ele’s like my fresh air ele which i’ve played for more than a year now straight. It’s already in a tough enough spot and making certain changes to traits could really make us even less viable. All I ask is that y’all know that my fresh air build is more important then anything else in this game and my needs always need to come first, kthxbye
- “THE” Shnicky (also known as Shnickey Mouse)

Bitty.1409:

A future nerf to D/D Elementalists is inevitable, something needs to change and I (sorta) trust ANET to eventually make the move to do so. However, please please please keep in mind that there are other builds for ele’s like my fresh air ele which i’ve played for more than a year now straight. It’s already in a tough enough spot and making certain changes to traits could really make us even less viable. All I ask is that y’all know that my fresh air build is more important then anything else in this game and my needs always need to come first, kthxbye
- “THE” Shnicky (also known as Shnickey Mouse)

buffing medi guard in turn buffs s/f ele.. somehow

Maybe you can give suggestions.

some changes are inevitable to affect other builds.
in order to nerf warrior meta build, anet touched a lot of non meta warrior builds in the process.

Really hope they look at cele amulet and might stacking before nerfing classes.

Well first of all the problem is not the Cele amulet, if you nerf the Cele amulet too much it will make other builds not viable. The problem is the combination of everything just adds up to mass destruction. Let me paint a picture, no other class benefit as much as ele’s do to the cele amulet, they simple don’t use EVERY single stat to their advantage like D/D ele’s. On top of that there might stacking abilities in combination with Battle Sigils and Str/Hoel Runes just basically make it so they are zerker amulet, and condi main stat amulet at the same time. This allows them to not have to trait into ANY offensive trait or traitline, let me repeat NOT ONE offensive trait line or even single trait, EVERY single one of their traits are used to keep them alive. I’m not going to sit here and pretend like I know the answer to the problem but I can definitely add suggestions if you guys are willing to hear me out. It’s simply that they just mesh SO well with what’s at their disposal. If you guys are interested I can tell you “MY OPINION” on how to fix this. Oh and cele rifle engi is not OP just strong, I can go into that too if anyone is wondering why.

Booms.2594:

buffing medi guard in turn buffs s/f ele.. somehow

Explain?

Engineer not OP? By what metric are you using to make that statement?

Bitty.1409:

stuff

If this was in response to my post, I just said look at, not nerf. I just don’t want them nerfing classes willy nilly. Their track record with that isn’t the best and I don’t want elementalists ruined when it’s perhaps not the only issue, or even the main issue.

P.s. I don’t play elementalist.

I can kinda understand how they might seem OP at lower levels of play, but they are just sooo susceptible to damage. First of all they get hard countered by condis, they have 1 stunbreaker on a very long CD, and they just die soooo quickly. If i’m in a teamfight and I want to down someone really quick 90% of the time i’ll pick the engi because of their limited disengage, 1 stunbreaker, and long cast time. Unlike cele D/d where they can GTFO instantly, out-sustain two people no problem, they have two stunbreakers, and do all this w/o even having to worry about their heal getting interrupted.

Roe.3679:

If this was in response to my post, I just said look at, not nerf. I just don’t want them nerfing classes willy nilly. Their track record with that isn’t the best and I don’t want elementalists ruined when it’s perhaps not the only issue, or even the main issue.

P.s. I don’t play elementalist.

Naw, It’s just the common complaint and just wanted to get my opinion out there before people come in and say “nerf cele problm fixt”

Simon.3794:

Maybe you can give suggestions.

some changes are inevitable to affect other builds.
in order to nerf warrior meta build, anet touched a lot of non meta warrior builds in the process.

Did they really tho, I think the main problem with warriors is just the simple fact that D/D cele eles exist.

Bitty.1409:

I can kinda understand how they might seem OP at lower levels of play, but they are just sooo susceptible to damage. First of all they get hard countered by condis, they have 1 stunbreaker on a very long CD, and they just die soooo quickly. If i’m in a teamfight and I want to down someone really quick 90% of the time i’ll pick the engi because of their limited disengage, 1 stunbreaker, and long cast time. Unlike cele D/d where they can GTFO instantly, out-sustain two people no problem, they have two stunbreakers, and do all this w/o even having to worry about their heal getting interrupted.

You’re comparing Apples to Oranges.

It isn’t by sheer coincidence that TCG lost two matches in a week’s time to teams sporting two engineers. Engineers might have less sustain than eles, but they bring a whole lot of team fights that other classes do not.

SobeSoul.6910:

You’re comparing Apples to Oranges.

It isn’t by sheer coincidence that TCG lost two matches in a week’s time to teams sporting two engineers. Engineers might have less sustain than eles, but they bring a whole lot of team fights that other classes do not.

Maybe TCG is just worse then those teams?gasp and maybe they need to update their comp. Atleast the engis die tho, ask any other pro player, they will say the same thing.

PS: They also both have 2 cele eles that peel for the engis.

Bitty.1409:

SobeSoul.6910:

You’re comparing Apples to Oranges.

It isn’t by sheer coincidence that TCG lost two matches in a week’s time to teams sporting two engineers. Engineers might have less sustain than eles, but they bring a whole lot of team fights that other classes do not.

Maybe TCG is just worse then those teams?gasp and maybe they need to update their comp. Atleast the engis die tho, ask any other pro player, they will say the same thing.

PS: They also both have 2 cele eles that peel for the engis.

Whether or not TCG needs to rethink their comp is irrelevant. The fact that two teams brought two team engies is the relevant part. People wouldn’t bring two of the same classes if the classes weren’t OP.

Much of your analysis has been based off of individual stuff, not whether or not classes are synergistic in teams. Which is more important than individual stuff. Eles and engies both are synergistic. Both are OP.

Okay before this goes to where all other arguments on these forums go, ima just stop here. I respect your opinion but I do not agree.

SobeSoul.6910:

People wouldn’t bring two of the same classes if the classes weren’t OP.

Something you and a lot of people fail to take into account is that sometimes you’re forced to use a certain roster with people who main certain classes.

In your case, you’re looking at the team who ran double Engi. They had success, thus, double Engi OP, pls balance.

What if Necro is stronger than a second Engineer? (It is.) That means you should stop asserting double Engineer is OP, because it’s not optimal.

Chaith.8256:

SobeSoul.6910:

People wouldn’t bring two of the same classes if the classes weren’t OP.

Something you and a lot of people fail to take into account is that sometimes you’re forced to use a certain roster with people who main certain classes.

In your case, you’re looking at the team who ran double Engi. They had success, thus, double Engi OP, pls balance.

What if Necro is stronger than a second Engineer? (It is.) That means you should stop asserting double Engineer is OP, because it’s not optimal.

I do take into account people who main certain classes. If engineers were shuffled down the hierarchy of classes in a patch, do you think your roster would have included both you and OE if there was another class that filled a role better than one of you two could? Provided of course a player could have gone in place of either of you.

I also know you are very defensive of engineers. I have one and have a decent game count on it on my other account. I play an ele currently. My preference is that neither class gets nerfed into the ground, but rather if things need to be shaved a little to bring them in line with other classes, so be it.

SobeSoul.6910:

Chaith.8256:

SobeSoul.6910:

People wouldn’t bring two of the same classes if the classes weren’t OP.

Something you and a lot of people fail to take into account is that sometimes you’re forced to use a certain roster with people who main certain classes.

In your case, you’re looking at the team who ran double Engi. They had success, thus, double Engi OP, pls balance.

What if Necro is stronger than a second Engineer? (It is.) That means you should stop asserting double Engineer is OP, because it’s not optimal.

I do take into account people who main certain classes. If engineers were shuffled down the hierarchy of classes in a patch, do you think your roster would have included both you and OE if there was another class that filled a role better than one of you two could? Provided of course a player could have gone in place of either of you.

I also know you are very defensive of engineers. I have one and have a decent game count on it on my other account. I play an ele currently. My preference is that neither class gets nerfed into the ground, but rather if things need to be shaved a little to bring them in line with other classes, so be it.

I know how badly you want to use the Abjured’s roster to justify what you’re saying but there was literally nobody to sub for the Abjured who was strong and not doing the WTS Quals themselves.

Double Engi is really questionable in my books. Like double War. Just best to not.

A lot of people will even say double engi is even bad.

Chaith.8256:

SobeSoul.6910:

Chaith.8256:

SobeSoul.6910:

People wouldn’t bring two of the same classes if the classes weren’t OP.

Something you and a lot of people fail to take into account is that sometimes you’re forced to use a certain roster with people who main certain classes.

In your case, you’re looking at the team who ran double Engi. They had success, thus, double Engi OP, pls balance.

What if Necro is stronger than a second Engineer? (It is.) That means you should stop asserting double Engineer is OP, because it’s not optimal.

I do take into account people who main certain classes. If engineers were shuffled down the hierarchy of classes in a patch, do you think your roster would have included both you and OE if there was another class that filled a role better than one of you two could? Provided of course a player could have gone in place of either of you.

I also know you are very defensive of engineers. I have one and have a decent game count on it on my other account. I play an ele currently. My preference is that neither class gets nerfed into the ground, but rather if things need to be shaved a little to bring them in line with other classes, so be it.

I know how badly you want to use the Abjured’s roster to justify what you’re saying but there was literally nobody to sub for the Abjured who was strong and not doing the WTS Quals themselves.

Double Engi is really questionable in my books. Like double War. Just best to not.

Ok, answer this question honestly, but first we have to make a hypothetical world.

Lets suppose all classes are balanced equally.

Lets also suppose that all classes brought equal team oriented mechanics to the table.

The final supposition would be you had a pool of eight players of same talent levels on a roster.

Would there ever be need for overlapping classes or instances on team comps?

Now ask yourself honestly if there’s not some correlation of players choosing some classes in favor of others because of the hierarchy of classes because the way their currently balanced. It is not by coincidence players start rolling engineers and elementalists that they did not already have.

You will defend your class because you’re biased. My engineer is the first toon I ever created. I love the class. I also love elementalist. They have been the most challenging classes for me to play at any level approaching “decent”. But if we compare classes across the board Eles and Engies are currently 1 and 2 in the pecking order.

ps. If I were to nerf anything, it would be changing might stacks’ power and condi increase from 35 downwards to 30 or 25 or some lower value that seems reasonable after testing. I don’t think it would harm any build or class irreparably.

SobeSoul.6910:

Chaith.8256:

SobeSoul.6910:

Chaith.8256:

SobeSoul.6910:

People wouldn’t bring two of the same classes if the classes weren’t OP.

Something you and a lot of people fail to take into account is that sometimes you’re forced to use a certain roster with people who main certain classes.

In your case, you’re looking at the team who ran double Engi. They had success, thus, double Engi OP, pls balance.

What if Necro is stronger than a second Engineer? (It is.) That means you should stop asserting double Engineer is OP, because it’s not optimal.

I do take into account people who main certain classes. If engineers were shuffled down the hierarchy of classes in a patch, do you think your roster would have included both you and OE if there was another class that filled a role better than one of you two could? Provided of course a player could have gone in place of either of you.

I also know you are very defensive of engineers. I have one and have a decent game count on it on my other account. I play an ele currently. My preference is that neither class gets nerfed into the ground, but rather if things need to be shaved a little to bring them in line with other classes, so be it.

I know how badly you want to use the Abjured’s roster to justify what you’re saying but there was literally nobody to sub for the Abjured who was strong and not doing the WTS Quals themselves.

Double Engi is really questionable in my books. Like double War. Just best to not.

Ok, answer this question honestly, but first we have to make a hypothetical world.

Lets suppose all classes are balanced equally.

Lets also suppose that all classes brought equal team oriented mechanics to the table.

The final supposition would be you had a pool of eight players of same talent.

Would there ever be need for overlapping classes or instances on team comps?

Now ask yourself honestly if there’s not some correlation of players choosing some classes in favor of others because of the hierarchy of classes because the way their currently balanced. It is not by coincidence players start rolling engineers and elementalists that they did not already have.

You will defend your class because you’re biased. My engineer is the first toon I ever created. I love the class. I also love elementalist. They have been the most challenging classes for me to play at any level approaching “decent”. But if we compare classes across the board Eles and Engies are currently 1 and 2 in the pecking order.

ps. If I were to nerf anything, it would be changing might stacks’ power increase from 35 downwards to 30 or 25 or some lower value that seems reasonable after testing. I don’t think it would harm any build or class irreparably.

So we’re in your hypothetical world.

I would take two Eles simply because Guardian isn’t efficient enough. (Minimum two players needed to always be able to be standing on point in fights.)

I will not take two Engies when I can have a Terrormancer roaming or a good Cele Shout War with Battle Standard.

If Ranger’s meta build got to the point where they could at least Stalemate D/D Eles, I would take a ranger of a 2nd Engineer.

Wait till the next balance patch comes… if Ranger and Guardian get even a small increase in efficiency at the same time that Ele gets shaved, you’ll never see double ele or engi.