Guild Wars 2

I take it back. Please nerf necro and spirit rangers and s/d thieves. They all suck. The meta is boring. Just spam spam spam. Especially spirit rangers. kitten them

Former topic title was please dont nerf necros. I take it back. The spam is unbearable.

Lololol totally balanced Yip completely that’s why people are still hard stacking necros in team comps with spirit rangers

Nerf necros….. pls god then give them a buff

Standard case of getting a taste of sweet power and not being able to let go.
Every team has 1 and most times 2 necros and even more sp rangers.
A condi necro facerolls against decent eles ,mesmers even engis sometimes without requiring any experience and has thrown out of meta a lot of builds and even whole classes.
I know you like the current situation because the meta favors your main class and you can do really well in soloq and matches in general.But you got to understand that me and a lot of people have come to the conclusion that we need to reroll to spranger,necro,s/d thief (warrior? ) to even have a chance to enjoy this game any more..
And pls ..this isnt my opinion.Its a fact being proven every day by every kittening soloq match where necros and rangers are 70% of the classes.

Avead.5760:

Standard case of getting a taste of sweet power and not being able to let go.
Every team has 1 and most times 2 necros and even more sp rangers.
A condi necro facerolls against decent eles ,mesmers even engis sometimes without requiring any experience and has thrown out of meta a lot of builds and even whole classes.
I know you like the current situation because the meta favors your main class and you can do really well in soloq and matches in general.But you got to understand that me and a lot of people have come to the conclusion that we need to reroll to spranger,necro,s/d thief (warrior? ) to even have a chance to enjoy this game any more..
And pls ..this isnt my opinion.Its a fact being proven by every kittening soloq match where necros and rangers are 70% of the classes.

+1

As a whole, necromancers needed an overhaul, and the necros got it on June 26th. Reduced recharges on skills that took way too long, increased potency on skills that didn’t do enough anyway, more useful traits, various bug fixes, before casts an aftercasts were shortened enough that necromancers could get a shot off, all is good.

I have to continually express my doubt in the “overpowered” nature of necromancers. I’ve been watching a lot of videos of tournaments because I’m in too much pain to play well at the moment, and watching the videos before the June 26th patch is on par with watching videos after it. A particularly bad example was when in MiM vs. TCG, TCG ran 3 power elementalists and just stomped MiM until MiM changed their composition in the second round, which they still lost.

The comps change basically amounted to running 2 or 3 condition specs instead of 1 or 2. I still see plenty of power guardians, thieves, mesmers, and elementalists, so the art of the power build isn’t truly dead like so many people claim. The hard part is that, while watching these videos, I can’t always see the buils of the players, and don’t see their condition cleansing. I see most classes with a condition cleanse, or maybe a few spots of condition cleanses that I assume come from some rune set, and some specs not running condition cleanses at all.

I think the biggest culprit is that the previous meta crumbled from 3 different directions in a rather short time, and so everyone is looking to blame a class over it:

#1: Ample boon hate was introduced. I still see a lot of boon hate on tourney builds.
#2: The game had become largely evasion based.
#3: Rangers and Necromancers received many buffs. Along those lines include weakness and blind.

And it is these 3 things all come together to form a nasty little storm. With boon hate, protection was neutralized and it made bunkers a whole lot easier to take down. This gave the rise of evasion thieves who would steal these boons, and rangers who would use their weapon evades to avoid all damage. Now that boons were a liability, weakness was buffed, and along that rangers + necromancers were buffed heavily. The AoE nature of conditions is a perfect counter to the evasion based meta, and conditions were also effective against the boon heavy meta.

This lead to a surge of rangers and necromancers, with engineers still bothering to tag along. It is through these classes that, by sheer numbers, conditions were allowed to dominate the meta. This change was incredibly fast, with players still lingering in the boon meta state. Because of this, they suggest things like protection decreasing conditions, not realizing that most classes can corrupt, steal, or strip protection easily now.

Now, is this meta necessarily worse than being instantly burst down by two elementalists at once? Is it worse than being cleave down instantly by mesmer shatters and pulls into guardians? I’m not so sure. I still see a lot of the focusing and bursting going on, except now it is a bit slower since conditions don’t kill immediately.

But, of course, since the game will ultimately service the player, Anet is going to give the players exactly what they want, and it’ll end up hurting more than helping:

A: Passive resistance to conditions. Either this won’t solve the problem because people will just take this and still die to conditions, or it’ll be too powerful and all conditions become useless. It’ll be like in WvW where if you don’t have 100% duration, opponents just shrug off your condis because they have melandru runes and lemongrass soup. Except worse, since now they have more passive resistance.
B: Vitality resisting conditions. Now vitality becomes the end-all defensive stat (evasive meta, remember?) because all power attacks will just end up missing or blocked.
C: A lot more condition cleanses. This can ends up balancing against the few good condi classes, while leaving condi eles, warriors, mesmers, and thieves to the dust because they didn’t have the covering that other players had.

Basically, it would be like nerfing all direct damage at launch because Warriors and Thieves could 100blades and pistol whip people to death quickly.

Nerf aoe, no need to nerf the necro himself.

2 ways to fix gw2s current meta.
1. Nerf the damage burning does.
2. Nerf the damage bleeding does and tone down how it stacks in intensity.
They way condition damage affects condis is way to high

butch.8136:

Nerf aoe, no need to nerf the necro himself.

Delete Elementalist and put a new class in place.

Lordrosicky.5813:

We have had enough nerfs. Please no more. We are balanced.

I have played alot of necro so I know what I am talking about.

Yeah, please: warrior would be muche less useful if it wasn’t for necros.XD

Derps.7421:

2 ways to fix gw2s current meta.
1. Nerf the damage burning does.
2. Nerf the damage bleeding does and tone down how it stacks in intensity.
They way condition damage affects condis is way to high

Bleed sucks as it is dude.

Don’t nerf them their perfectly balanced… oh wait

tom.7468:

Don’t nerf them their perfectly balanced… oh wait

Lol I love it

Necromancers are grossly underpowered in PvE at the moment. If a nerf happens it needs to be SPvP only like the Dhuumfire one. Our sustain doesn’t even function in bigger fights.

What we need is a proper split. Balancing this game around dueling and SPvP will lead to its doom.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Necromancers are grossly underpowered in PvE at the moment. If a nerf happens it needs to be SPvP only like the Dhuumfire one. Our sustain doesn’t even function in bigger fights.

What we need is a proper split. Balancing this game around dueling and SPvP will lead to its doom.

try power necro in pve, very very strong. ghastly claws hits up to 12k.

knyy.6427:

try power necro in pve, very very strong.

Doesn’t matter when you have no survivability and do far less damage than a warrior anyhow. Necromancers lack useful damage mitigation options in PvE and WvWvW.

We’re in sPvP forum here

Then I assume they should buff all the other classes to be on par with necro, instead of just bringing one class down, you want them to take 7 others up ? :/

Hawatak.8049:

We’re in sPvP forum here

Point? Nerfs in SPvP effects the rest of the game too unless they’re split.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I think the biggest culprit is that the previous meta crumbled from 3 different directions in a rather short time, and so everyone is looking to blame a class over it:

#1: Ample boon hate was introduced. I still see a lot of boon hate on tourney builds.
#2: The game had become largely evasion based.
#3: Rangers and Necromancers received many buffs. Along those lines include weakness and blind.

And it is these 3 things all come together to form a nasty little storm. With boon hate, protection was neutralized and it made bunkers a whole lot easier to take down. This gave the rise of evasion thieves who would steal these boons, and rangers who would use their weapon evades to avoid all damage. Now that boons were a liability, weakness was buffed, and along that rangers + necromancers were buffed heavily. The AoE nature of conditions is a perfect counter to the evasion based meta, and conditions were also effective against the boon heavy meta.

This lead to a surge of rangers and necromancers, with engineers still bothering to tag along. It is through these classes that, by sheer numbers, conditions were allowed to dominate the meta. This change was incredibly fast, with players still lingering in the boon meta state. Because of this, they suggest things like protection decreasing conditions, not realizing that most classes can corrupt, steal, or strip protection easily now.

Now, is this meta necessarily worse than being instantly burst down by two elementalists at once? Is it worse than being cleave down instantly by mesmer shatters and pulls into guardians? I’m not so sure. I still see a lot of the focusing and bursting going on, except now it is a bit slower since conditions don’t kill immediately.

Sorry for editing your post, but this is pretty much how I feel as well. I don’t like the current meta either, but I do prefer it over un-killable ele’s and insta-gibbing thieves and mesmers. I am not sure what the solution is, but I am tempted to think, that the ones still playing tpvp are those who used to main one of the classes favored in the last meta. It is at least worth considering for everyone how biased we are, isn’t it?

Xeph.4513:

Then I assume they should buff all the other classes to be on par with necro, instead of just bringing one class down, you want them to take 7 others up ? :/

Spirit ranger and s/d thief are already ahead of necro. A necro doesnt avoid everything you do and then when they are gonna die they disengage and come back full health. Mesmer and ele have crazy dps. Like crazy dps which is very hard if not impossible to avoid. Warrior have berserker stance and stun lock/100 blades which is basically 10 seconds of god mode and an 8 second combo which melts everyone. Engis can RES THEMSELVES (wtf?!?) and perma swiftness and vigor. And they have an adept trait which spams burn on people as well as other condis. Then you have guardian which has crazy good team utility and is the class you kinda of have to bring.

There is a reason the best team specs have 5 different classes. It is because balance isnt that bad. Necro isnt that good. If it gets nerfed then they must nerf all the stuff I listed above which is EVERY other class.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Xeph.4513:

Then I assume they should buff all the other classes to be on par with necro, instead of just bringing one class down, you want them to take 7 others up ? :/

Spirit ranger and s/d thief are already ahead of necro. A necro doesnt avoid everything you do and then when they are gonna die they disengage and come back full health. Mesmer and ele have crazy dps. Like crazy dps which is very hard if not impossible to avoid. Warrior have berserker stance and stun lock/100 blades which is basically 10 seconds of god mode and an 8 second combo which melts everyone. Engis can RES THEMSELVES (wtf?!?) and perma swiftness and vigor. And they have an adept trait which spams burn on people as well as other condis. Then you have guardian which has crazy good team utility and is the class you kinda of have to bring.

There is a reason the best team specs have 5 different classes. It is because balance isnt that bad. Necro isnt that good. If it gets nerfed then they must nerf all the stuff I listed above which is EVERY other class.

Too much damage and now too tanky, something has to give.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Xeph.4513:

Then I assume they should buff all the other classes to be on par with necro, instead of just bringing one class down, you want them to take 7 others up ? :/

Spirit ranger and s/d thief are already ahead of necro. A necro doesnt avoid everything you do and then when they are gonna die they disengage and come back full health. Mesmer and ele have crazy dps. Like crazy dps which is very hard if not impossible to avoid. Warrior have berserker stance and stun lock/100 blades which is basically 10 seconds of god mode and an 8 second combo which melts everyone. Engis can RES THEMSELVES (wtf?!?) and perma swiftness and vigor. And they have an adept trait which spams burn on people as well as other condis. Then you have guardian which has crazy good team utility and is the class you kinda of have to bring.

There is a reason the best team specs have 5 different classes. It is because balance isnt that bad. Necro isnt that good. If it gets nerfed then they must nerf all the stuff I listed above which is EVERY other class.

Alright lets make a few things clear mesmer and elementalist dps is high, but right now their kill potential is no where near being as potent as necro.
I could go into detail regarding the matter; but I think that the subject has already been saturated.
If you fail to see how strong necro is in the current meta, then I doubt anything I could say would change your mind.

Xeph.4513:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Xeph.4513:

Then I assume they should buff all the other classes to be on par with necro, instead of just bringing one class down, you want them to take 7 others up ? :/

Spirit ranger and s/d thief are already ahead of necro. A necro doesnt avoid everything you do and then when they are gonna die they disengage and come back full health. Mesmer and ele have crazy dps. Like crazy dps which is very hard if not impossible to avoid. Warrior have berserker stance and stun lock/100 blades which is basically 10 seconds of god mode and an 8 second combo which melts everyone. Engis can RES THEMSELVES (wtf?!?) and perma swiftness and vigor. And they have an adept trait which spams burn on people as well as other condis. Then you have guardian which has crazy good team utility and is the class you kinda of have to bring.

There is a reason the best team specs have 5 different classes. It is because balance isnt that bad. Necro isnt that good. If it gets nerfed then they must nerf all the stuff I listed above which is EVERY other class.

Alright lets make a few things clear mesmer and elementalist dps is high, but right now their kill potential is no where near being as potent as necro.
I could go into detail regarding the matter; but I think that the subject has already been saturated.
If you fail to see how strong necro is in the current meta, then I doubt anything I could say would change your mind.

The only thing keeping that burst in check is necros and s/d thief. You remove that and I dread to think about another 7 months of a mesmer/ele/guardian meta.

The thing is people EXPECT to be dominant on their mesmer and ele because they always have been dominant and overpowered. Now necro is viable people cry about it. I dont think it is because necro is OP. I think it is just better than it was. You can still kill a necro easily.

Alot of the known players became known because they played mesmer and ele. As they were the best classes for a long long time. So there is a bias from the known players towards expecting these classes to be dominant. Whilst nobody with legitamacy speaks up for necro or other “newer” classes.

If they nerf condis then they must nerf condi removal. Emphatic bond, automated response, lyssa runes, berserker stance = all lame and OP. [/quote]

And this is how I know you’re an idiot, you call condi remove ‘lame’. Oh kittening please. Because wiping all your condis once a minute is ‘lame’ because you can’t put ALL THE CONDIS back on in 5 seconds. Stuff it whiny necro.

Can we please have red outline on spectral wall already? It is really annoying…

Xeph.4513:

Alright lets make a few things clear mesmer and elementalist dps is high, but right now their kill potential is no where near being as potent as necro.

There’s a bit of problem here in that the reason M&E have no kill potential at the moment is because their burst specs are countered by the current necro meta, they no longer have the luxury of running their glass specs safely as S/D thieves and necros eat them right up while avoiding or soaking up that damage.

If you blow up necros completely, then those two classes will re-emerge and their only stopper will be a thief.

I don’t think necros need to nerfed directly, more the general AoE condi-spam capabilities of several classes in conjunction.

In the end im pretty sure anet is keeping track of the players activity somehow.
A one man’s thread in the forum wont stop them from analysing the soloq data and seeing how many necros and rangers there are. And it makes sense that if something is played in that degree then it must be op.It was the same with eles back in the days.
It was common to see 2 or even 3 in a game.And keep in mind that ele opness came with mobility instead of damage which is very important in soloq.I honestly think that if necros had a bit oof access to that too you would easily see 5 necro teams :O
God give mercy to our souls :P

Lordrosicky.5813:

The only thing keeping that burst in check is necros and s/d thief. You remove that and I dread to think about another 7 months of a mesmer/ele/guardian meta.

The thing is people EXPECT to be dominant on their mesmer and ele because they always have been dominant and overpowered. Now necro is viable people cry about it. I dont think it is because necro is OP. I think it is just better than it was. You can still kill a necro easily.

Alot of the known players became known because they played mesmer and ele. As they were the best classes for a long long time. So there is a bias from the known players towards expecting these classes to be dominant. Whilst nobody with legitamacy speaks up for necro or other “newer” classes.

Why do you think people want it removed? I don’t think that’s what people are saying. It’s more it needs to be toned down. Leaving the build as oppressive as it is isn’t really a problem in my opinion. I just think it kills too quickly, making it comparable to DPS/ non-extreme burst builds.

Keep all the skills as they are but reduce the condition damage amulets by about 10-20%, limit Mark and Well stacking by some arbitrary value and I think it would be fine.

I saw someone mention something like force everyone in TPvP to use only celestial amulets to reduce the crazy extremes of some builds. As crazy as it sounds, that might actually work.

I don’t think Necro is too bad, but it needs some subtle changes to make it a bit harder to play. It just feels like you don’t have to work very hard to get a lot out of it, which is just wrong. I feel it’s more conditions in general than actually the necros themselves. Since they’re just the best at it.

jportell.2197:

But there are a few classes that are completely obsolete atm. Which is an outrage

Are we really going to pretend that this hasn’t always been the case?

And no, making rangers and necromancers obsolete again isn’t going to fix it.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Xeph.4513:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Xeph.4513:

Then I assume they should buff all the other classes to be on par with necro, instead of just bringing one class down, you want them to take 7 others up ? :/

Spirit ranger and s/d thief are already ahead of necro. A necro doesnt avoid everything you do and then when they are gonna die they disengage and come back full health. Mesmer and ele have crazy dps. Like crazy dps which is very hard if not impossible to avoid. Warrior have berserker stance and stun lock/100 blades which is basically 10 seconds of god mode and an 8 second combo which melts everyone. Engis can RES THEMSELVES (wtf?!?) and perma swiftness and vigor. And they have an adept trait which spams burn on people as well as other condis. Then you have guardian which has crazy good team utility and is the class you kinda of have to bring.

There is a reason the best team specs have 5 different classes. It is because balance isnt that bad. Necro isnt that good. If it gets nerfed then they must nerf all the stuff I listed above which is EVERY other class.

Alright lets make a few things clear mesmer and elementalist dps is high, but right now their kill potential is no where near being as potent as necro.
I could go into detail regarding the matter; but I think that the subject has already been saturated.
If you fail to see how strong necro is in the current meta, then I doubt anything I could say would change your mind.

The only thing keeping that burst in check is necros and s/d thief. You remove that and I dread to think about another 7 months of a mesmer/ele/guardian meta.

The thing is people EXPECT to be dominant on their mesmer and ele because they always have been dominant and overpowered. Now necro is viable people cry about it. I dont think it is because necro is OP. I think it is just better than it was. You can still kill a necro easily.

Alot of the known players became known because they played mesmer and ele. As they were the best classes for a long long time. So there is a bias from the known players towards expecting these classes to be dominant. Whilst nobody with legitamacy speaks up for necro or other “newer” classes.

A lot of those “Known players” have accepted the shift in meta and have picked up new classes; the reason is the current meta is just not enjoyable to play for a various amount of reasons.

Xeph.4513:

A lot of those “Known players” have accepted the shift in meta and have picked up new classes; the reason is the current meta is just not enjoyable to play for a various amount of reasons.

Can’t help asking: What is an enjoyable meta?
Imo the GC-burst was not enjoyable, nor were the unkillable , ever-evading classes. Nor is the current meta focused on conditions. Personally I have always been a support-minded person when it comes to gaming, and GC-burst and some exclusive classes access to it without real punishment really killed that part of the fun for me.
Is burst really a “better” meta? Genuinely interested in hearing your opinion and elaboration on the matter..

Lordrosicky.5813:

We have had enough nerfs. Please no more. We are balanced.

I have played alot of necro so I know what I am talking about.

I can promise you we are still op and still need to be toned down. ( I necro for [SYNC] and have been maining necro since beta/played it in all the other tournies)

They promised us attrition, ways to stop others running from us. All were happy with the idea.

We got Condi… (The very short immobilize if in hug range after Torment didn’t stop them running) Most were unhappy with the idea. (Excluding, were at least ‘top/best at something now’ tho not in PvE where we needed a role)

Chill the dam (See what I did there) and tanky us up! You told us such sweet things!

Xeph.4513:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Xeph.4513:

Then I assume they should buff all the other classes to be on par with necro, instead of just bringing one class down, you want them to take 7 others up ? :/

Spirit ranger and s/d thief are already ahead of necro. A necro doesnt avoid everything you do and then when they are gonna die they disengage and come back full health. Mesmer and ele have crazy dps. Like crazy dps which is very hard if not impossible to avoid. Warrior have berserker stance and stun lock/100 blades which is basically 10 seconds of god mode and an 8 second combo which melts everyone. Engis can RES THEMSELVES (wtf?!?) and perma swiftness and vigor. And they have an adept trait which spams burn on people as well as other condis. Then you have guardian which has crazy good team utility and is the class you kinda of have to bring.

There is a reason the best team specs have 5 different classes. It is because balance isnt that bad. Necro isnt that good. If it gets nerfed then they must nerf all the stuff I listed above which is EVERY other class.

Alright lets make a few things clear mesmer and elementalist dps is high, but right now their kill potential is no where near being as potent as necro.
I could go into detail regarding the matter; but I think that the subject has already been saturated.
If you fail to see how strong necro is in the current meta, then I doubt anything I could say would change your mind.

No doubt that Terror/Condi Necro is very better at killing as ele/mesmer. Still Necro are very bad at support team members.
Ele can support teams with combos, do good dmg AND be at sametime mobilty – Necro can is better at dps and fear opponents while they are stopming mates (if they have non stability)
Same with mesmer (not sure about combos, but teleport and moa morph is helping team a lot).

It is bad that ppl are looking only on killing possobilitys of the classes, while forgeting other things.

Ele is support class. It’s player own fault if he try to use dps spec and die.

Infect.2738:

Lordrosicky.5813:

We have had enough nerfs. Please no more. We are balanced.

I have played alot of necro so I know what I am talking about.

I can promise you we are still op and still need to be toned down. ( I necro for [SYNC] and have been maining necro since beta/played it in all the other tournies)

Then tone down the damage but at least give us some choices for survivability.

Nerf nekro, the new noob click to win class. No skill required to dominate.

Well it’s probably very easy dominate when enemies can’t dodge kitten and use only berserker.

Junkpile.7439:

Well it’s probably very easy dominate when enemies can’t dodge kitten and use only berserker.

Well spoken because as nekro any enemie feels like zerker and ofc everyone can dodge while perma feared. Go back PvE bro.

Bandwagoneers reading the forum are the cause of the influx of necros and rangers in spvp.

lvl 1 can join spvp. make it lvl 80 or so to do spvp and all those bandwagoneers will disappear and people wont pick up the flavor of the month builds before they have the proper level.
Work for your spvp privileges i’d say.
I remember guildwars where you had to complete missions and achievements to gain access to JQ and FA. I can only hope.

As for rangers and necros being OP.. again..
Hogwash, nonsense.
just that the know flavour builds instagibbing won’t work anymore and you have to get creative instead of holding onto your dogmatic builds.

btw, the real flavour is warrior now and “you” know it.

Forestnator.6298:

Junkpile.7439:

Well it’s probably very easy dominate when enemies can’t dodge kitten and use only berserker.

Well spoken because as nekro any enemie feels like zerker and ofc everyone can dodge while perma feared. Go back PvE bro.

I use right skill and then i am not perma feared. I know that this sound kind of advanced tactic, but it works.

Junkpile.7439:

Forestnator.6298:

Junkpile.7439:

Well it’s probably very easy dominate when enemies can’t dodge kitten and use only berserker.

Well spoken because as nekro any enemie feels like zerker and ofc everyone can dodge while perma feared. Go back PvE bro.

I use right skill and then i am not perma feared. I know that this sound kind of advanced tactic, but it works.

No it sounds not advanced, because nekro just starts using right skills too and then you are his toygirl again. Sounds kind of advanced tactic, hugh?

One necro in the match, and you don’t have to play your char….

Poxxia.1547:

Xeph.4513:

A lot of those “Known players” have accepted the shift in meta and have picked up new classes; the reason is the current meta is just not enjoyable to play for a various amount of reasons.

Can’t help asking: What is an enjoyable meta?
Imo the GC-burst was not enjoyable, nor were the unkillable , ever-evading classes. Nor is the current meta focused on conditions. Personally I have always been a support-minded person when it comes to gaming, and GC-burst and some exclusive classes access to it without real punishment really killed that part of the fun for me.
Is burst really a “better” meta? Genuinely interested in hearing your opinion and elaboration on the matter..

The fact is, although the GC Meta wasn’t the greatest, there was a lot of teamwork involved and supporting your team mates was very viable; being coordinated in team fight also mattered a lot

let me give you a few examples of this, as a Mesmer dealing with conditions was difficult and having lost sustain; for this reason I always had to coordinate with phantaram that I run in for his heals and move out, I would at times push forward to lower pressure on our guard or ele, until the re-sustained.
In the current meta that sort of play is no longer possible; the heavy condi meta means that you need to bring your own “personal” condition removal.
S/D thieves diving the backline, means that no matter how coordinated you are, you still can’t protect your backline, as he is free to do it as many times he likes.

If you notice most classes that are brought in, are classes that are able to duel very well in a 1v1 (S/D Thief, Spirit Ranger, Necro and Engineer), they are also classes that are very self sufficient, meaning they can hold their own with little support.

This doesn’t mean that teamwork is out of the window, but it does mean that you can be a lot less coordinated and still achieve great results, but fact is its a lot more boring to play then the old GC meta, because its mainly about spamming condi’s from afar.

it’s really hard to explain all of it in writing, if you want to discuss it further, I would be happy to get on voice com and do so.

Xeph.4513:

Poxxia.1547:

Xeph.4513:

A lot of those “Known players” have accepted the shift in meta and have picked up new classes; the reason is the current meta is just not enjoyable to play for a various amount of reasons.

Can’t help asking: What is an enjoyable meta?
Imo the GC-burst was not enjoyable, nor were the unkillable , ever-evading classes. Nor is the current meta focused on conditions. Personally I have always been a support-minded person when it comes to gaming, and GC-burst and some exclusive classes access to it without real punishment really killed that part of the fun for me.
Is burst really a “better” meta? Genuinely interested in hearing your opinion and elaboration on the matter..

The fact is, although the GC Meta wasn’t the greatest, there was a lot of teamwork involved and supporting your team mates was very viable; being coordinated in team fight also mattered a lot

let me give you a few examples of this, as a Mesmer dealing with conditions was difficult and having lost sustain; for this reason I always had to coordinate with phantaram that I run in for his heals and move out, I would at times push forward to lower pressure on our guard or ele, until the re-sustained.
In the current meta that sort of play is no longer possible; the heavy condi meta means that you need to bring your own “personal” condition removal.
S/D thieves diving the backline, means that no matter how coordinated you are, you still can’t protect your backline, as he is free to do it as many times he likes.

If you notice most classes that are brought in, are classes that are able to duel very well in a 1v1 (S/D Thief, Spirit Ranger, Necro and Engineer), they are also classes that are very self sufficient, meaning they can hold their own with little support.

This doesn’t mean that teamwork is out of the window, but it does mean that you can be a lot less coordinated and still achieve great results, but fact is its a lot more boring to play then the old GC meta, because its mainly about spamming condi’s from afar.

it’s really hard to explain all of it in writing, if you want to discuss it further, I would be happy to get on voice com and do so.

The point is that is just your opinion. Which is obviously what the forums are for. My initial post is just my opinion.

The old meta sucked way worse. There were less viable classes. Then people did have success with 2 eles. Then you did need a mesmer (till BM came along) to cover back point. It was so boring to find a group and you HAD to have a mesmer, at least 1 ele and a guardian. Now you dont NEED anything. Which is good, and means nothing is that op.

Yes some builds need toning down, but not necro. Necro isnt OP at all. And most good necros agree with me. The people who think it is OP are people who played ele and mesmer and are used to those classes just facerolling everyone.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Xeph.4513:

Poxxia.1547:

Xeph.4513:

A lot of those “Known players” have accepted the shift in meta and have picked up new classes; the reason is the current meta is just not enjoyable to play for a various amount of reasons.

Can’t help asking: What is an enjoyable meta?
Imo the GC-burst was not enjoyable, nor were the unkillable , ever-evading classes. Nor is the current meta focused on conditions. Personally I have always been a support-minded person when it comes to gaming, and GC-burst and some exclusive classes access to it without real punishment really killed that part of the fun for me.
Is burst really a “better” meta? Genuinely interested in hearing your opinion and elaboration on the matter..

The fact is, although the GC Meta wasn’t the greatest, there was a lot of teamwork involved and supporting your team mates was very viable; being coordinated in team fight also mattered a lot

let me give you a few examples of this, as a Mesmer dealing with conditions was difficult and having lost sustain; for this reason I always had to coordinate with phantaram that I run in for his heals and move out, I would at times push forward to lower pressure on our guard or ele, until the re-sustained.
In the current meta that sort of play is no longer possible; the heavy condi meta means that you need to bring your own “personal” condition removal.
S/D thieves diving the backline, means that no matter how coordinated you are, you still can’t protect your backline, as he is free to do it as many times he likes.

If you notice most classes that are brought in, are classes that are able to duel very well in a 1v1 (S/D Thief, Spirit Ranger, Necro and Engineer), they are also classes that are very self sufficient, meaning they can hold their own with little support.

This doesn’t mean that teamwork is out of the window, but it does mean that you can be a lot less coordinated and still achieve great results, but fact is its a lot more boring to play then the old GC meta, because its mainly about spamming condi’s from afar.

it’s really hard to explain all of it in writing, if you want to discuss it further, I would be happy to get on voice com and do so.

The point is that is just your opinion. Which is obviously what the forums are for. My initial post is just my opinion.

The old meta sucked way worse. There were less viable classes. Then people did have success with 2 eles. Then you did need a mesmer (till BM came along) to cover back point. It was so boring to find a group and you HAD to have a mesmer, at least 1 ele and a guardian. Now you dont NEED anything. Which is good, and means nothing is that op.

Yes some builds need toning down, but not necro. Necro isnt OP at all. And most good necros agree with me. The people who think it is OP are people who played ele and mesmer and are used to those classes just facerolling everyone.

I do agree to that the forum is for opinions.
but there are less viable classes at the moment then back in the old meta, that much is true.
Mesmer, ele and warrior. are not seeing competitive play.
Previously it was just warrior and necro.
so no there are not more viable classes now.
I also know a lot of good Necro’s that agree its a little too strong, regardless that is up to debate.

I would take Xeph line and his circle any time over yours, Lord. Caused you know, he is way better player than you. And most of taking being competitive seriously will back up my line.

Xeph.4513:

Poxxia.1547:

Xeph.4513:

A lot of those “Known players” have accepted the shift in meta and have picked up new classes; the reason is the current meta is just not enjoyable to play for a various amount of reasons.

Can’t help asking: What is an enjoyable meta?
Imo the GC-burst was not enjoyable, nor were the unkillable , ever-evading classes. Nor is the current meta focused on conditions. Personally I have always been a support-minded person when it comes to gaming, and GC-burst and some exclusive classes access to it without real punishment really killed that part of the fun for me.
Is burst really a “better” meta? Genuinely interested in hearing your opinion and elaboration on the matter..

The fact is, although the GC Meta wasn’t the greatest, there was a lot of teamwork involved and supporting your team mates was very viable; being coordinated in team fight also mattered a lot

let me give you a few examples of this, as a Mesmer dealing with conditions was difficult and having lost sustain; for this reason I always had to coordinate with phantaram that I run in for his heals and move out, I would at times push forward to lower pressure on our guard or ele, until the re-sustained.
In the current meta that sort of play is no longer possible; the heavy condi meta means that you need to bring your own “personal” condition removal.
S/D thieves diving the backline, means that no matter how coordinated you are, you still can’t protect your backline, as he is free to do it as many times he likes.

If you notice most classes that are brought in, are classes that are able to duel very well in a 1v1 (S/D Thief, Spirit Ranger, Necro and Engineer), they are also classes that are very self sufficient, meaning they can hold their own with little support.

This doesn’t mean that teamwork is out of the window, but it does mean that you can be a lot less coordinated and still achieve great results, but fact is its a lot more boring to play then the old GC meta, because its mainly about spamming condi’s from afar.

it’s really hard to explain all of it in writing, if you want to discuss it further, I would be happy to get on voice com and do so.

Excellent summary of the situation +1.

Xeph.4513:

Poxxia.1547:

Question

Elaborated answer

It makes perfect sense from my noob point of view, thank you
Nice summary, thanks.