Guild Wars 2

It is obvius that this game has no punishment on using skills on recharge, either when they are useless.
This sistem allow to some profession to spam evasion, and to other to spam attacks without thinking on what they are doing.

You should put a mechanic that there is in all the games, energy or mana. Something that say w8 don’t use evasion if enemy is blind, or can’t reach you.

The only energy that you put is on evasion and it isn’t that punitive to spam like it should be.

That’s what skill cooldowns and thief initiative are for. I’m not sure what you’re saying.

I wan’t a control to the skill other than CD. I wan’t there is in ALL games: energy. Like GW1, WoW, Dota, LoL. Without energy you can’t cast a skill either if it isn’t in recharge.

I’ll use guardian as an example:

Bad guardian blows SYG on some worthless CC.
Bad guardian gets properly CC’ed and now that his SYG is gone, dies.
or…
Bad guardian doesn’t have SYG up to secure a stomp, gets stopped/CC’ed and loses his stomp, the enemy is rezzed, and the fight is lost.

This is the simplest example, and one very easy to see when a player plays a bad guardian. The cooldown is a strong punishment when, as a guardian without cooldowns, can be killed in a couple of seconds.

Cooldowns are long to the point that the punishment of using a skill poorly is that it’s unavailable when you really need it. The result then is roughly similar to resource management, if not a bit less interesting mechanically.

That said the chances of energy being added to this game are zero. It’s possible that classes may get their own mechanics/resources expanded moving forward, but the current system isn’t broken and thus won’t be fixed. Even core systems that are broken (underwater combat) may not ever get fixed because they can’t profit off the development costs that would go into changing it.

Laxuar.3504:

I wan’t a control to the skill other than CD. I wan’t there is in ALL games: energy. Like GW1, WoW, Dota, LoL. Without energy you can’t cast a skill either if it isn’t in recharge.

OK, I see what you’re saying now. The thing is, other games have things to help with regaining it, for example potions and mana potions in order to boost that bar up again, putting in a mana bar would be a huge punishment for elementalists who have no physical attacks at all, being able to do nothing until that bar is filled enough again to cast something would leave them in a huge sitting duck situation.

What would be your solution to something like this?

I think he wants someone think ride the lightning, where instead of using rtl and not hitting anything and getting a longer cooldown, he probably wants something were you dodge nothing you should get a longer cooldown on your dodge (more endurance used, stunted endurance or whatever) Same with abilities like if you don’t evade on an evade and attack skill it should have longer cooldown than if you did evade in the evade and attack skill.

But if you ask me, it sounds like some thief is evading all his attacks by spamming it regardless if hes attacking and he aint hitting kitten and getting owned lol.

Corian.4068:

That said the chances of energy being added to this game are zero. It’s possible that classes may get their own mechanics/resources expanded moving forward, but the current system isn’t broken and thus won’t be fixed. Even core systems that are broken (underwater combat) may not ever get fixed because they can’t profit off the development costs that would go into changing it.

Sadly i agree with that…

Taking the exemple of SYS i wan’t that a bad guardian can’t use it when he need because he wasted his energy doing other things, like spam roll, spam attacks against invulnerables foe and other things.

The problem of maintenance of energy can be solved with traits or utilities or maybe combo fields.

I dream a game that is less spam and more clean. Tell me that you can see an observer on twich and understand what is happening during a team fight, what killed who and where they did a mistake. I don’t think that anyone understand what is happening during a team fight with 3vs3 or 4vs4 spamming aoe, blast, istant skill and other things.

Corian.4068:

Cooldowns are long to the point that the punishment of using a skill poorly is that it’s unavailable when you really need it. The result then is roughly similar to resource management, if not a bit less interesting mechanically.

Except most skills have relatively short CDs (less than 8 seconds) which basically means that they are still sort of spammable and bad skill usage ain’t that punishing. :/

When developing a game, there are generally two resource considerations you need to keep in mind. One is a long term resource and the other a short term resource. In most games, the long term resource is actually mana or energy. The short term is cooldown.

Think of it like this, I can cast a skill forever on recharge and nothing will stop me. The idea of a long term resource is to say that after a certain point in a combat, I should start to feel a sense of attrition. Honestly, Anet moved that factor from a mana bar and onto your health. In most games, your health was the standard that decided victory or defeat. It was the point counter that ran in the background as you fought to determine who was winning. Now, we have downed mode to do that.

Whether this was intentional or accidental is up for discussion and more importantly, whether you think this is good or bad is also something of discussion.

Diage, you greatly explain the situation of GW, the problem is that the health can’t be a long term resources because it is your life, and when you finish it you are dead like other games. The problem is that there are toons of bunker build that simply can’t die or they take too much, but if you reduce the skill that allow them to stay alive they will die too fast, some for some dps build. With the energy you can introduce one more option to balance, that will bring more intelligent use of skills, and a stop for long and intensive fight.

A skill that you don’t use is equally as wasted as one that you spammed into air.

When guild wars 2 combat was first introduce it was meant to be similar to a MOBA where you think about your skills. Unfortunately, the current implementation favor simply just using most of your skills as they leave CD (elementalist for example in other to maximize the crappy damage they have). The current resource manage in this game suck or is non existent, initiative is rarely a problem.

Static.9841:

Laxuar.3504:

I wan’t a control to the skill other than CD. I wan’t there is in ALL games: energy. Like GW1, WoW, Dota, LoL. Without energy you can’t cast a skill either if it isn’t in recharge.

OK, I see what you’re saying now. The thing is, other games have things to help with regaining it, for example potions and mana potions in order to boost that bar up again, putting in a mana bar would be a huge punishment for elementalists who have no physical attacks at all, being able to do nothing until that bar is filled enough again to cast something would leave them in a huge sitting duck situation.

What would be your solution to something like this?

Guild wars 1 elementalist could specialize in energy storage, which meant they had a lot more energy than any class in the game. I would rather they transplant the gw1 elementalist than keep the current kittenty mediocre, bad traits, low damage, 5 times the effort for 1/5 the payoff of other classes, bad staff, jack of all fails class we currently have. So in guild wars 2 set all attunement change to 9 second and replace arcane with energy storage and then copy everything from guild wars 1 into 2 for the skills (joking ofc).

Laxuar.3504:

Diage, you greatly explain the situation of GW, the problem is that the health can’t be a long term resources because it is your life, and when you finish it you are dead like other games. The problem is that there are toons of bunker build that simply can’t die or they take too much, but if you reduce the skill that allow them to stay alive they will die too fast, some for some dps build. With the energy you can introduce one more option to balance, that will bring more intelligent use of skills, and a stop for long and intensive fight.

Actually, if you run out of HP you don’t just die. You go into downed mode. That is an important point because in most games your hp is that last little defense between you and defeat. In this game, it is downed mode. Of course, the discussion of downed mode is nearly completely irrelevant.

Think of it like this right. In GW1 you had a monk in your backline and warriors in your frontline. The warriors seldom cared about their energy whereas the energy of the monks was insanely important. For a matter of fact, they bore nearly all the weight of the energy problem. I should qualify that, certainly eles had energy issues too, but within confines of a team if an ele ran out of energy it meant you’d receive more pressure or do less pressure. If a monk ran out of energy it generally meant a team wipe.

So despite the fact I wholeheartedly disagree with capture points, this is how it ought to play out in my mind.

Skill needs to be reintroduced into the game, that is definitely true. But you need not have energy for that. If it were possible that bunkers are MOSTLY incapable of fulling sustaining themselves but instead took slight pressure over time, you would see that their HP would be a good indicator of the amount of time he was in combat (as should be represented by any good long term resource.) This is assuming the person besieging him was competent enough to properly time his skills to maximize the effective pressure, not simply spam. Combine this with a slower pace of point gain and a greater reward for capping (for your team). And you just might start to see a game form where the concept is not to simply run blindly spamming, but rather to properly siege bunkers and set yourself up for success with appropriate timing of skill usage.

EDIT – Added: I want to also mention, I agree that the AN easy solution would be to implement energy as a long term resource, however that is a significant change to the game versus altering balance and adjusting point gain. It is also more creative and more interesting to attempt to design something which is far more unique.