Guild Wars 2

Let me first say, I’m a huge fan of thief, and anyone that knows me, knows I play this class a lot. I am not asking for this change because I am getting kittened on by all the thieves in hotjoin or whatever.

Having a daze component as well as no ICD to pulmonary impact makes getting resses vs a thief absolutely impossible.

This change shouldn’t have made it out of the giggle phase of testing.

I am saying this as objectively as I can, remove the daze component of this skill. It is not healthy for the game.

Maybe don’t keep spamming the rez button if you have 5+ stacks of poision without stability inside their poison field? If you keep trying to rez through it I feel as though it’s on you. It’s just a different way of cleaving that players have to be aware of. You wouldn’t try and rez through heavy cleaves without any buffs like stability or invulnerability would you?

It is by no means “absolutely impossible”

Again, stability or invulnerability. If you can’t deal with cleave you shouldn’t try to get a rez off. Not once in my reply did I say “just stop rezzing”.

Would you try and rez someone through a necro or a warrior’s cleave without some form of invulnerability?

Rednova.5283:

Again, stability or invulnerability. If you can’t deal with cleave you shouldn’t try to get a rez off. Not once in my reply did I say “just stop rezzing”.

Would you try and rez someone through a necro or a warrior’s cleave without some form of invulnerability?

Before Heart of Thorns stability was insurance, not a requirement, to help successfully res a teammate.

This is just a needless introduction of more power creep to the game in a patch that was supposedly intended to reduce it.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Rednova.5283:

Again, stability or invulnerability. If you can’t deal with cleave you shouldn’t try to get a rez off. Not once in my reply did I say “just stop rezzing”.

Would you try and rez someone through a necro or a warrior’s cleave without some form of invulnerability?

Before Heart of Thorns stability was insurance, not a requirement, to help successfully res a teammate.

This is just a needless introduction of more power creep to the game in a patch that was supposedly intended to reduce it.

We aren’t talking about before HoT though. We will never go back to that point. It will not happen. You don’t need stability now to rez someone. The field lasts only a few seconds and if they spam it then it is no different than any other form of cleave.

It wasn’t an introduction of power creep. They simply tried making a weapon that was only used for skill 5, or very very rare occasions skill 4 and 3, more viable. I wouldn’t call a daze that requires certain conditions to be met power creep.

Rednova.5283:

I wouldn’t call a daze that requires certain conditions to be met power creep.

Adding a daze to a skill that used to not have it is the very definition of power creep.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Rednova.5283:

I wouldn’t call a daze that requires certain conditions to be met power creep.

Adding a daze to a skill that used to not have it is the very definition of power creep.

I disagree. It just made the weapon more viable. If you can show me a thief using shortbow for a majority of a fight over d/p or really any other weapon set I will concede and say this was an unnecessary change

Rednova.5283:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Rednova.5283:

I wouldn’t call a daze that requires certain conditions to be met power creep.

Adding a daze to a skill that used to not have it is the very definition of power creep.

I disagree. It just made the weapon more viable. If you can show me a thief using shortbow for a majority of a fight over d/p or really any other weapon set I will concede and say this was an unnecessary change

This is absurd lol. The issue is that, even when a Warrior is cleaving, now, you can potentially rez through it, with ranger and scrapper. Thief is so good that you literally can not. And you can’t just say, ‘oh, YOU need to go out and show me some statistically analysis about how this is overpowered’ when that’s clearly just a cop-out of you not wanting to actually argue your points. Nobody’s going to actually do that.

There are people that have been playing GW2 competitively for, like, 3 years, that are saying that this change feels kittening awful.

But, you know what, I’ll oblige. During the first inhouses after the patch, Thieves were pressing 4 on downs as many times as they could, and then swapping to D/P, and autoattacking, and it just automatically ended the rez, no matter what happened. Short of an invuln (because surprisingly stab doesn’t last that long when you’re losing 1 stack every second), no rezzes were had.

Ofc nobody’s going to go out of their way to respond to an anecdotal question with a statistical answer, so you’re going to have to get an anecdotal one in response.

Saying “there are people that have been playing for years that say this is bad” as a form of argument is also a very weak argument. I’m sure there are “people who have been playing for years” that don’t believe it is power creep as well. If you define power creep as an improvement to a skill in any way than there will always be power creep. Always. There is not a single mmo out there without power creep by that definition.

A statistical argument is the only sound form of an argument. What else would we base what is op or not on? Emotion derived from the fact that you got bested by the skill?

Atleast wait a week before throwing your hands up saying something is op. People are learning not to stand in dh traps are they not? You have to give changes like this time to settle before making rational judgment.

I don’t understand why this thread had to escalate, all I had originally offered was advice on how to deal with it.

teammates like necro (chillblains, RS4, regen corrupt, whirl in poison field) and engi (Fumigate, chemical field+whirl) cleaving is more than enough to hit the 5 stacks and much more.

this game does not need more cc and for sure thief is the one class that does not need more of it

do you need a reminder how much you people liked dragonhunters dazing with traps spam? no you didnt. you are now approving the same thing except it is much cheaper and easier.

Wow i am good at predicting. I said, give it a day and there will be outrage about this change. Here we go.

I would like to point out that there is also downside to the daze on choking gas in combination with. IP proc applies reveal since it counts as direct hit. Meaning if by some chance someone sits in the poison and thief really needs to stealth up and run, he will get revealed and possibly die. Before, as a thief, you had to watch out for interrupts and delayed PI, now you also have to watch out for choking gas applications.

I am kind of on the fence here with the change. At once side i can see what the complain is about and it definitely could be very obnoxious with the right build (e.g. hybrid thief with double sb) on the other hand i always wished sb was more than gap closer + some blasts. I also wish core was more viable, but it should be done through traits and not weapons, imo, since same weapons are also used by elite specs.
I also would like to point out, if meta thief (dp/sb da/tr/drd) spams choking gas, he is sitting there with 0 ini and locked in sb for a while – which makes them really vulnerable not to mention still prominent lack of meaningful damage on sb (those 500 AA will hardly kill anyone).

They will probably revert the change though, not because it is balanced, fair or what not but because average Joe was crying rivers on forums. Just like they did with stealth attack from sb because some DH was crying that it was OP.

Them adding Daze to Choking Gas is awesome throwback to Guild Wars 1. It simply needs to be balanced and I hope it does as I think its a great way to make choking gas… actually choke instead of tickle with poison for heal reduction. they can simply increase initiative cost to 6… or even 8. and keep what it does now instead of it being so low at 4 for it’s strength. I mean guild wars 1 version even had a high energy cost to use.. yet this remains at 4 initiative which is not a lot at all… so like anything done… fix the symptom.

Seeing how the Choking Gas daze can only affect each person only once with a 1 sec ICD on the daze, people can move out of the cloud, cleanse the poison, dodge the cloud, uses Stability, use an Invuln. You know things called not standing the same small green circle letting stacks build on you……

Sly.9518:

Seeing how the Choking Gas daze can only affect each person only once with a 1 sec ICD on the daze, people can move out of the cloud, cleanse the poison, dodge the cloud, uses Stability, use an Invuln. You know things called not standing the same small green circle letting stacks build on you……

Lol people forgot how to play these days I had people sitting in my small Plaguelands circle not moving. -shrug- it proves the skill level of players is so low.

To be fair with the right build it can be used as AoE stun interrupt on ressing downed enemies.

But, cleanse and other abilities do provide counter play to an extent that the buff will have less impact than people think. That doesn’t mean it won’t be meaningful, I plan to use it to AoE cleave downed bodies. It may also help as an opener on point fights.

Sly.9518:

Seeing how the Choking Gas daze can only affect each person only once with a 1 sec ICD on the daze, people can move out of the cloud, cleanse the poison, dodge the cloud, uses Stability, use an Invuln. You know things called not standing the same small green circle letting stacks build on you……

You realize we are talking about rezzing right? Choking gas completely stops a rez. It both applying poison and applying a pulsing CC. You can’t rez through that.

Rezzing through the 120 sec cd Plaguelands is easier than rezzing through choking gas.

some ppl said CG will reveal you. it did before as it does dmg. now it got buff liitle bit

also you dont need stability with poison field. just cleanse and make sure you have below 5 poison stack when you ress or stomp and you do fine.
ele 1 shout can make sure of that
now if thief works with necro it can be different story. same as 2 class cleanse the down…. so no big change

please learn the skill before you QQ

Crinn.7864:

Sly.9518:

Seeing how the Choking Gas daze can only affect each person only once with a 1 sec ICD on the daze, people can move out of the cloud, cleanse the poison, dodge the cloud, uses Stability, use an Invuln. You know things called not standing the same small green circle letting stacks build on you……

You realize we are talking about rezzing right? Choking gas completely stops a rez. It both applying poison and applying a pulsing CC. You can’t rez through that.

Rezzing through the 120 sec cd Plaguelands is easier than rezzing through choking gas.

Oh noooo, having to move out of Cleave and pressure when rezzing, or having to pop one of the many cleanses or Invulns that plague the game. Who would be so mean as to make it so there consequences to standing Undefended in the middle of an AoE.

Sly.9518:

Oh noooo, having to move out of Cleave and pressure when rezzing, or having to pop one of the many cleanses or Invulns that plague the game. Who would be so mean as to make it so there consequences to standing Undefended in the middle of an AoE.

You can’t rez from outside the field the radius is too wide. There are exactly 2 classes in the game capable of moving a downed, and only 1 of those classes can do it on a realistic build.

I’m sorry but a thief shouldn’t be able to single handily stop a rez by pressing 1 button on shortbow.

The increase to Choking Gas’ initiative cost will definitely put it in line. Probably even shorten the poison circles duration to 2 seconds (instead of its current 4 seconds). Outright getting rid of it without any compromising balance check is poor judgment in balance.. nothing would be changed in this game which it needs badly and make anet not do anything anymore if they gotta revert everything they do instantly over 1 day.

Also not sure why you would res through dmg being done to both parties.. was it that easy to just ignore stuff and start reviving people? lol.

Crinn.7864:

Sly.9518:

Oh noooo, having to move out of Cleave and pressure when rezzing, or having to pop one of the many cleanses or Invulns that plague the game. Who would be so mean as to make it so there consequences to standing Undefended in the middle of an AoE.

You can’t rez from outside the field the radius is too wide. There are exactly 2 classes in the game capable of moving a downed, and only 1 of those classes can do it on a realistic build.

I’m sorry but a thief shouldn’t be able to single handily stop a rez by pressing 1 button on shortbow.

Again you are under the assumption that a player should be able to Rez through Cleave everytime, that is the flaw in your argument, and there are multiple other ways to Rez through the Cleave, Stability, Invulns, Cleanses Etc. it’s called counterplay.

Sly.9518:

Crinn.7864:

Sly.9518:

Oh noooo, having to move out of Cleave and pressure when rezzing, or having to pop one of the many cleanses or Invulns that plague the game. Who would be so mean as to make it so there consequences to standing Undefended in the middle of an AoE.

You can’t rez from outside the field the radius is too wide. There are exactly 2 classes in the game capable of moving a downed, and only 1 of those classes can do it on a realistic build.

I’m sorry but a thief shouldn’t be able to single handily stop a rez by pressing 1 button on shortbow.

Again you are under the assumption that a player should be able to Rez through Cleave everytime, that is the flaw in your argument, and there are multiple other ways to Rez through the Cleave, Stability, Invulns, Cleanses Etc. it’s called counterplay.

You can rez through gravedigger spam. You can rez through Plaguelands. You can rez through glass staff ele. You can’t rez through Choking Gas.

Cleaving out a rez that the other team is committing to takes multiple people cleaving. Except now thief can cleave out a rez with 1 button.

Moreover thief is already the best class when it comes to stomping, why does it also need to be the best class for cleaving out downs?

A single choking gas can’t do what you are saying. More likely it would involve spider venom or other poison utility, possibly a trained steal (on a single target to be dazed) and (more likely) multiple choking gas fields.

You can cleanse to avoid the stun or use stability to avoid the daze.

Or you can target the thief before you res with some concentrated fire and force him to waste initiative defensively. Then he won’t have the initiative to put down the fields needed to stop a res.

Crinn.7864:

Sly.9518:

Crinn.7864:

Sly.9518:

Oh noooo, having to move out of Cleave and pressure when rezzing, or having to pop one of the many cleanses or Invulns that plague the game. Who would be so mean as to make it so there consequences to standing Undefended in the middle of an AoE.

You can’t rez from outside the field the radius is too wide. There are exactly 2 classes in the game capable of moving a downed, and only 1 of those classes can do it on a realistic build.

I’m sorry but a thief shouldn’t be able to single handily stop a rez by pressing 1 button on shortbow.

Again you are under the assumption that a player should be able to Rez through Cleave everytime, that is the flaw in your argument, and there are multiple other ways to Rez through the Cleave, Stability, Invulns, Cleanses Etc. it’s called counterplay.

You can rez through gravedigger spam. You can rez through Plaguelands. You can rez through glass staff ele. You can’t rez through Choking Gas.

Cleaving out a rez that the other team is committing to takes multiple people cleaving. Except now thief can cleave out a rez with 1 button.

Moreover thief is already the best class when it comes to stomping, why does it also need to be the best class for cleaving out downs?

There are a few ways to get the Rez off one invulning through it using stability, using cleanses, hell pressuring the Thief away, sorry I can’t play the game for you, and other classes can stomp just as effectively if not better than thief, he’ll one can do it while spamming all his other skills, and other classes have just as strong of cleave, sorry you can’t GG sit through Thief pressure while rezzing without a second thought any more.

Thief can’t finish opponents in a team fight. Why is it wrong for them to deny rez in a team fight?

Thief’s presence in a team fight was already garbage…just stop rezzing for a second and go blow on the thief once or twice until its downed.

Now that I think about it….I’d actually love to see rez skills used in PvP.
Heck, why not?

I’ll just put an icd to pi or the daze on the choking gas, because atm it’s disgusting strong.

Elxdark.9702:

I’ll just put an icd to pi or the daze on the choking gas, because atm it’s disgusting strong.

Hmm someone should read patch notes, Choking Gas has an ICD….. 2 to be precise one on the poison pulse and one on the daze..

Acandis is right, just overpower this daze spam. Add CD to daze in choking gaz.

Rednova.5283:

If you define power creep as an improvement to a skill in any way than there will always be power creep. Always.

It’s one thing to adjust a few numerical values and coefficients to make something do slightly more damage. It’s another to literally change the way a skill works and make it significantly more powerful than any previous iteration by adding a daze to it that wasn’t previously there.

The former is simply a buff; the latter is power creep.

Rednova.5283:

There is not a single mmo out there without power creep by that definition.

Guild Wars 1 rarely took this kind of approach to balance, for one. But you’re right: very few MMOs avoid power creep. Many of them actually celebrate it, which is a big reason why vertical progression is so popular.

I played Guild Wars 1 and play Guild Wars 2 because ArenaNet was historically a bit more even-keeled when it came to their approach to balance. They’ve certainly buffed and nerfed some skills over the years in ways I often found objectionable, but yesterday’s change to how turrets overcharge (as welcomed as it is) and to Choking Gas represent not buffs or nerfs but literal reworks to how skills operate literally five years into this game’s existence.

These are not the types of changes ArenaNet should be making here, especially when there’s so much ample low hanging fruit like mesmer mantras or engineer gadgets that desperately need their attention.

Simple fact is: if ArenaNet wants more resurrection denial, they should just reduce the amount of stability they poured into the game two years ago. There’s already way too much CC in Heart of Thorns PvP; we don’t need even more of this. They need to scale back the power creep, not advance it.

I have to agree with OP. The thing is that thieves have taken the short bow as their secondary weapon for as long as the game has existed. SB 6 is just THAT strong. Arena Net: Not every weapon needs a CC to be useful.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Rednova.5283:

If you define power creep as an improvement to a skill in any way than there will always be power creep. Always.

It’s one thing to adjust a few numerical values and coefficients to make something do slightly more damage. It’s another to literally change the way a skill works and make it significantly more powerful than any previous iteration by adding a daze to it that wasn’t previously there.

The former is simply a buff; the latter is power creep.

Rednova.5283:

There is not a single mmo out there without power creep by that definition.

Guild Wars 1 rarely took this kind of approach to balance, for one. But you’re right: very few MMOs avoid power creep. Many of them actually celebrate it, which is a big reason why vertical progression is so popular.

I played Guild Wars 1 and play Guild Wars 2 because ArenaNet was historically a bit more even-keeled when it came to their approach to balance. They’ve certainly buffed and nerfed some skills over the years in ways I often found objectionable, but yesterday’s change to how turrets overcharge (as welcomed as it is) and to Choking Gas represent not buffs or nerfs but literal reworks to how skills operate literally five years into this game’s existence.

These are not the types of changes ArenaNet should be making here, especially when there’s so much ample low hanging fruit like mesmer mantras or engineer gadgets that desperately need their attention.

Simple fact is: if ArenaNet wants more resurrection denial, they should just reduce the amount of stability they poured into the game two years ago. There’s already way too much CC in Heart of Thorns PvP; we don’t need even more of this.

We need to scale back the power creep, not advance it.

Sometimes skill reworks are needed because slight number tweaks don’t make a weapon more viable, most weapons that are Meta have been Meta for what they do not for the numbers tweaks, and have been Meta for a long long time.

And the weapons was the most underperforming thing besides one skill, when a class brings a weapon and is almost exclusively mandatory for one skill that isn’t even used for Combat/damage purposes there is a problem that needs fixed.

Sometimes you can’t get a rez, just the way it is. If the thief focuses you down, that means you were downed. I cant count how many times I have had players try to rez me and get stopped by 1 OP war,, or 1 OP mes, or 1 OP necro. Try to stop them from claiming a mist hero and they pop up a majillion stacks of stability or pop invuln….
The skill has to change because rezzing got harder some of the time? At the current moment, I believe it is doing what the devs intended. ON AVERAGE, how viable is a thief against a war, guard, nec, or engi, without help? This allows the plebian thief to have a chance to play effectively as part of a team.

Also I was referring to SPvP, where the likely hood of being left alone for a 10 minute duel between the opposing classes is near non-existent. Sure that happens in WvW with roamers, or custom arenas, but nope to SPvP. Is the complain about the giant zergs being regulated in WvW?

In the spirit of trying to come to a compromise about this, although I don’t believe it is op in its current state, why not just increase the poison threshold instead of sending the skill back down to the depths? Up it to 8. If it were at 8 the thief would either need to spam the skill atleast twice or get help from team mates.

It would require the thief at that point to use another skill to get away as their intiative would be low from committing to an aoe daze. Otherwise the thief would need to run venom to apply the daze if team mates do not contribute to poison stacks.

If you complain at that point for not being able to rez after a thief nearly exhausted their own resources to prevent a rez then I feel it is a L2P issue

Rednova.5283:

In the spirit of trying to come to a compromise about this, although I don’t believe it is op in its current state, why not just increase the poison threshold instead of sending the skill back down to the depths? Up it to 8. If it were at 8 the thief would either need to spam the skill atleast twice or get help from team mates.

It would require the thief at that point to use another skill to get away as their intiative would be low from committing to an aoe daze. Otherwise the thief would need to run venom to apply the daze if team mates do not contribute to poison stacks.

If you complain at that point for not being able to rez after a thief nearly exhausted their own resources to prevent a rez then I feel it is a L2P issue

A few hints to note, the Daze only Procs on Choking Gas Pulse, the Daze has an ICD separate from the Pulse, Choking Gas alone can only apply 4 Stacks at most each stack only last 2 secs per pulse baseline, so by itself one Choking Gas doesn’t do much, now I could see the Daze ICD being increased to 2 seconds.

But right now it’s a skill that has two separate ICDs and can’t reach the 5 stack threshold alone.

Sly.9518:

Hmm someone should read patch notes, Choking Gas has an ICD….. 2 to be precise one on the poison pulse and one on the daze..

Choking Gas: Increased damage by 200%. This skill now briefly dazes foes with 5 or more stacks of poison every pulse. The same foe cannot be dazed more than once every second.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Sly.9518:

Hmm someone should read patch notes, Choking Gas has an ICD….. 2 to be precise one on the poison pulse and one on the daze..

Choking Gas: Increased damage by 200%. This skill now briefly dazes foes with 5 or more stacks of poison every pulse. The same foe cannot be dazed more than once every second.

Yes and it only applies the Daze on CG poison pulse….. Poison pulses every second, Daze can only affect one target per second, two ICDs on the skill.

Let’s see how that plays out: get hit for initial poison pulse if you have 5 stacks of Poison at that time get dazed, ICD happens on daze Second Poison Pulse no Daze, ICD is over Third pulse Daze(if opponent is bad enough to still be in the field…) CG only last 4 seconds, At max per CG its 2 Dazes on each target.

Edit: My comments were based on a misunderstanding how the skill functions. My apologies. I don’t see this skill as even slightly a problem now that I understand properly how it functions. Part 1

Shadelang.3012:

“Just pop an invuln or a stab’ Okay. What about classes that dont have relaible access to either anymore? Like say rangers. And every other class whos entire stab load can be stopped by one steal. What then? Yeah the downed person dies and theres nothing you can do to stop it.

Im not gonna say shortbow didn’t need a buff. But keep in mind it is one of hte most powerful if not THE Most powerful mobility weapon in the game. And yes people that DOES count. Its not like it magically is a bad weapon if it doesnt deal backstab level damage.

The chocking gas was already worthy down cleave in the application of poison. Something not every class/build can do. But something NEARLY every thief build can do since shortbow was SO GOOD they took it anyway.

The classes that can invuln through that choking gas are also the classes that don’t have increased rez speed in there primary builds. Making them unable to rez through the duration of most invulns.

Lets face it a mesmer isnt going to be able to solo distort rez. Especially not with a thief waiting to gank his ass the second the distort is gone. And choking gas will keep him form stealth rezzing as well.

This is NOT a down skill of equal power to others. Its node fighting potential in team fights is high as well making this skill even more powerful. Its synergy with PI makes it even MORE powerful.

Lets dispense with the “Oh it only dazes you once per second” you know as well as I the icd is only for people that are forced to move in and out of the edge of the cloud. Once per second is more than enough.

If were gonna pick this skill apart finding excuses for it you can have a more honest AND reliable approach by comparing thief down cleave to that of other classes. Like a necro using path of corruption enhanced rs2 into rs4 to break up and punish a rez. Which is one of the most powerful down cleave combos.

The ICD has NOTHING to do with the performance of the skill in this case as it would only affect people moving in and out of the field. So get rid of that kitten now and talk about the mechanics that would actually affect the target of the thread.

Note: I am not stating whether the skill is OP or Not. I havnt encountered it enough to have an accurate opinion. Though with my class now back to living in terror of a single boon steal/strip im naturally gonna be leaning towards caution here. But I am also trying to not let knee jerk reactions guide me. But lets ATLEAST discuss this topic HONESTLY. And not doing everything we can to point at small kitten and saying “LOOK LOOK HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS AND HOW IT PROVES YOUR WRONG”

The Daze works on PULSE not on Crossing the field like static fields, read the patch notes, the Pulses happen once per second, once the daze happened the ICD kicks in that means at most 2 dazes on the same target…….

Edit: here you go the Patch note.

• Choking Gas: Increased damage by 200%. This skill now briefly dazes foes with 5 or more stacks of poison every pulse.The same foe cannot be dazed more than once every second.

And let’s not forget CG alone can’t make 5 stacks. Since it only pulses 4 times.

I find this funny. Only rangers I can see complaining about this balance patch are the noob meta players that got use to their safe space character. Now they changed things thar req more thinking of the player now or have to adjust again. So, don’t stand in aoe that daze you otherwise it’s your dumb fault.

As a 5+ranger player I find the balance patch justify and unlike others can adapt like I have been for 5 plus years. Learn your class not just the meta build as well as learn other classes to predict and counter. All about skill and experience. So please less complaining and learn the whole entire class and the choking gas won’t hurt. Oh and don’t try to stand in aoe with a thief that is obviously spamming aoe when you’re trying to res that’s your dumb fault.

Cynz.9437:

I would like to point out that there is also downside to the daze on choking gas in combination with. IP proc applies reveal since it counts as direct hit. Meaning if by some chance someone sits in the poison and thief really needs to stealth up and run, he will get revealed and possibly die. Before, as a thief, you had to watch out for interrupts and delayed PI, now you also have to watch out for choking gas applications.

Yeah, except if you’re using SB at that point to apply choking gas, unless you’re tossing it around randomly and foolishly, you’re not going to be in any immediate threat to warrant going into stealth, not to mention the mobility you have with SB and #3 to be able to avoid such threat while the short AoE field of Choking Gas dissipates.

It’s almost like you’re complaining about having to be aware of your own skills….

crying rivers on forums.

The irony.

Edit: My comments were based on a misunderstanding how the skill functions. My apologies. I don’t see this skill as even slightly a problem now that I understand properly how it functions. Part 2

Shadelang.3012:

@Sly

Thank you for proving my point. The 1 second ICD part of that doesn’t need to be there. And does not need to be talked about. It could just say dazes for x every second and it would mean exactly the same thing.

Pointing at the ICD as a reason the skill isnt OP when the ICD is the PULSE RECHARGE is pointless. All I want out of this is for people to actually be discussing the skill in regards to the cost, risk, and effectiveness of the skill in comparison to its affects and what other classes are capable of.

Again. Im not saying its op. Infact in comparison to other classes down cleave id say its cheap but balanced. Cheap meaning the relatively little risk involved for the impact it can have. But its true other classes can have similar if not more deadly cleave actions.

At most id increase the cost of doing the skill a little and leave it in its current format.

Wow you have a weird way of thinking, you need 5 stacks of poison to prove the Daze, it’s not a daze for just being in the CG field, so it saying daze every x seconds is nowhere near the same. CG alone cannot provide 5 stacks of poison, so CG alone cannot cause the Dazes and if someone is waiting for all 4 pulses then having the Daze process from other poison applications…. GG I didn’t prove anything that you said, since you were talking about it applying daze to anyone crossing the CG field.

No ini cost need increase since t can’t cause the dazes itself, at most it will need the ICD increased maybe 1 second.

Sly.9518:

Shadelang.3012:

@Sly

Thank you for proving my point. The 1 second ICD part of that doesn’t need to be there. And does not need to be talked about. It could just say dazes for x every second and it would mean exactly the same thing.

Pointing at the ICD as a reason the skill isnt OP when the ICD is the PULSE RECHARGE is pointless. All I want out of this is for people to actually be discussing the skill in regards to the cost, risk, and effectiveness of the skill in comparison to its affects and what other classes are capable of.

Again. Im not saying its op. Infact in comparison to other classes down cleave id say its cheap but balanced. Cheap meaning the relatively little risk involved for the impact it can have. But its true other classes can have similar if not more deadly cleave actions.

At most id increase the cost of doing the skill a little and leave it in its current format.

Wow you have a weird way of thinking, you need 5 stacks of poison to prove the Daze, it’s not a daze for just being in the CG field, so it saying daze every x seconds is nowhere near the same. CG alone cannot provide 5 stacks of poison, so CG alone cannot cause the Dazes and if someone is waiting for all 4 pulses then having the Daze process from other poison applications…. GG I didn’t prove anything that you said, since you were talking about it applying daze to anyone crossing the CG field.

No ini cost need increase since t can’t cause the dazes itself, at most it will need the ICD increased maybe 1 second.

Ahhhhhh. I see. I misunderstood the wording of the skill text. I would say english isn’t my first language but I would be lieing and making excuses. I was just not paying attention. I was wrong. My apologies for distracting from the post. Ill edit my above comments to reflect this.

Sly.9518:

The Daze works on PULSE not on Crossing the field like static fields, read the patch notes, the Pulses happen once per second, once the daze happened the ICD kicks in that means at most 2 dazes on the same target…….

Edit: here you go the Patch note.

• Choking Gas: Increased damage by 200%. This skill now briefly dazes foes with 5 or more stacks of poison every pulse.The same foe cannot be dazed more than once every second.

And let’s not forget CG alone can’t make 5 stacks. Since it only pulses 4 times.

Testing it on golem, it definitively dazes once every second. If the target already has poison on them you can easily get 4 CC ticks.

Also the initiative cost of CG is low enough that a thief can easily put two CG down at the same time without breaking his ini management, and can put three down in a pinch. So reach 5 stacks is trivial.

Crinn.7864:

Sly.9518:

The Daze works on PULSE not on Crossing the field like static fields, read the patch notes, the Pulses happen once per second, once the daze happened the ICD kicks in that means at most 2 dazes on the same target…….

Edit: here you go the Patch note.

• Choking Gas: Increased damage by 200%. This skill now briefly dazes foes with 5 or more stacks of poison every pulse.The same foe cannot be dazed more than once every second.

And let’s not forget CG alone can’t make 5 stacks. Since it only pulses 4 times.

Testing it on golem, it definitively dazes once every second. If the target already has poison on them you can easily get 4 CC ticks.

Also the initiative cost of CG is low enough that a thief can easily put two CG down at the same time without breaking his ini management, and can put three down in a pinch. So reach 5 stacks is trivial.

If you have multiple fields down they overlap the trigger since each pulse goes at separate times and oh Noooo…. the thief has to use over half its ini for a few Dazes that are easily negated smh

Again one CG cannot cause dazes, and if there are multiple fields there are multiple triggers that can over lap the ICD

Sly.9518:

A few hints to note, the Daze only Procs on Choking Gas Pulse, the Daze has an ICD separate from the Pulse, Choking Gas alone can only apply 4 Stacks at most each stack only last 2 secs per pulse baseline, so by itself one Choking Gas doesn’t do much, now I could see the Daze ICD being increased to 2 seconds.

But right now it’s a skill that has two separate ICDs and can’t reach the 5 stack threshold alone.

I’m aware how the skill works and as I said I don’t believe it is op in its current state. I may have been a little hasty trying to suggest a potential compromise to the skill, I just didn’t want this improvement to get nerfed just because people refuse to adapt and instead complain about it without learning how the skill works.

We all know how hard dh has been getting nerfed and still people complain about traps, but that is a different subject entirely.

Sly.9518:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Sly.9518:

Hmm someone should read patch notes, Choking Gas has an ICD….. 2 to be precise one on the poison pulse and one on the daze..

Choking Gas: Increased damage by 200%. This skill now briefly dazes foes with 5 or more stacks of poison every pulse. The same foe cannot be dazed more than once every second.

Yes and it only applies the Daze on CG poison pulse….. Poison pulses every second, Daze can only affect one target per second, two ICDs on the skill.

Let’s see how that plays out: get hit for initial poison pulse if you have 5 stacks of Poison at that time get dazed, ICD happens on daze Second Poison Pulse no Daze, ICD is over Third pulse Daze(if opponent is bad enough to still be in the field…) CG only last 4 seconds, At max per CG its 2 Dazes on each target.

LMFAO this is completely wrong. If the enemy has enough stacks of poison, CG will daze them 4 times.

OriOri.8724:

Sly.9518:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Sly.9518:

Hmm someone should read patch notes, Choking Gas has an ICD….. 2 to be precise one on the poison pulse and one on the daze..

Choking Gas: Increased damage by 200%. This skill now briefly dazes foes with 5 or more stacks of poison every pulse. The same foe cannot be dazed more than once every second.

Yes and it only applies the Daze on CG poison pulse….. Poison pulses every second, Daze can only affect one target per second, two ICDs on the skill.

Let’s see how that plays out: get hit for initial poison pulse if you have 5 stacks of Poison at that time get dazed, ICD happens on daze Second Poison Pulse no Daze, ICD is over Third pulse Daze(if opponent is bad enough to still be in the field…) CG only last 4 seconds, At max per CG its 2 Dazes on each target.

LMFAO this is completely wrong. If the enemy has enough stacks of poison, CG will daze them 4 times.

Go try it the ICD happens after the Poison Pulse try one CG field, the Pulse and ICD are completely separate, regardless I am advocating they make the ICD on daze every 2 secs to stop all the inbound whining of bads since I don’t want to see SB nerfed back into nothingness. But hey you have had issues understanding other things before. And let’s not forget CG can’t apply 5 stacks by itself