Guild Wars 2

One question. How do I remove that moa morph? Do I really need to wait 10 seconds? Seems like a long time. Stun and other stuff always usually is very low timer but moa morph… insane. I know you can move away and other stuff. But you can’t do anything else and if you almost killed that mesmer he now has time to heal again and to other stuff. There should be a way to remove it. Or only 5 seconds against players and 10 seconds in PvE. But then again… compared to other stuff it seems weak if it only would be possible in PvE and with that high cooldown… I don’t know. Maybe not going 1 vs. 1 helps. He can’t moa 2 people.

Kryank.8069:

Lols died from confusion, if the only thing that can be complained about is the downed state, then I guess they are not as OP as people say!!

You’ve misunderstood. Mesmer normal down state stopped bothering me the moment I noticed that red arrow over the real one.

Problem is, underwater you can’t stomp.
So you actually have to kill the mesmer again, right? Using skills right? so unless you can remove every stack of confusion the downed mesmer applies, you take confusion damage right?
And if it’s a condition mesmer…well that’s a lot of damage you can’t avoid taking. especially if the mesmer can buy time by blinking around, and, combined with the “Invicible, invincible, hit, invincible, invincible, hit” you get when you try to hit a player surfacing…

Just, good times.

Another thought comes to mind, is a lot of this “Mesmer hate” also to do with being able to avoid the common burst combos (Steal > Pistol Whip & Hammer KD > 100 Blades) by blinking backwards, Chaos Storming or Chaos armoring?
I wonder if these people are aware that everyone has numberous skills to “avoid” the burst combos.
Thief: Shadow step, blind power, roll for initiative
Engineer: Miniturisation Elixir, Stability Elixir, Shield 4 & 5
Elementalist: Mist Form, Arcane Shield, Armor of Earth
Just a few examples that come directly to mind.

Not really, im an condition engineer so looking at my skills there isnt much to avoid as an mesmer. Nonetheless they keep disappearing, i keep losing focus (even with ctrl target) and they yust keep summoning clones/phantasms… most used tactic ive see so far is Mesmers running around an wall or tree while the phantasms kill everything and they make sure they arent being hit

and ofcourse.. ill do the same with my “anti-burst” stuff which works against other classes burst to compare how it works vs mesmers

Engineer:
Miniturisation Elixir: gratz, the engineer now cant do kitten for a couple of seconds while an mesmer makes sure his phantasms are up and prepares to stealth again
Stability Elixir, doesnt work vs mesmers, no knockdown etc.
Shield 4 & 5.. again, no effect against mesmers
Immobilise… nope, mesmer is gone again

I only see 3 issues with mesmers at the moment:

1) Multiple Mesmers in the same team in sPvP is incredibly imbalanced. The more mesmers in the same group in sPvP the more OP they are. No other profession stacks like this. I’ve only actually quit a pvp match once, and it was when somehow I ended up facing 4 mesmers in the same group, unbelievable.

2) Mesmers can prolong death far too long while in the downed state.

3) Players should not be able to call target on a mesmer to mark the real one. If a mesmer gets marked it should mark their clones as well. It just kinda defeats the purpose of them, imo.

I’d say something about Moa but it’s already been mentioned enough in this thread already.

A mesmer is really squishy, and infact doesn’t really put out any real dps aside from sword and pistol.
As for illusions, when i play in a pure defensive form, i have all my traits and utility skills focussed purely on having illusions and phantasms out, and yes it confuses the hell out of people, but at the same time, the chances of me killing you alone before your team mates turn up is pretty low due to the lack of damage.

The best thing i guess you could do is go out of LoS, all the illusions will follow round the corner, look which one didnt, and thats your target, once a mesmer is caught on cooldowns, they stand zero chance.

Why not reduce the amount of illusions/pha.. and make them more powerful?! Yesterday I played a match with 5 mesmers! The middle of legacy map was full of illusions…
Another problem is the annoying sound of them

Having multiple phantasms out takes longer than clones. Clones do little to no damage and die with a hit or two. If a mesmer is having lots of phantasms out (which should confuse nobody seen as theyre a white ghost colour) then the mesmer kill is relatively easy.
If a mesmer is spamming clones, you will be able to fight against them for ages due to the lack of dps.
The problem everyone is having is with the clones, but what people realise is they die instantly, and instead of mesmers feeling like god mode, infact people are just getting annoyed that they have to kill so many clones before getting to the real player.

Spider.3486:

Having multiple phantasms out takes longer than clones. Clones do little to no damage and die with a hit or two. If a mesmer is having lots of phantasms out (which should confuse nobody seen as theyre a white ghost colour) then the mesmer kill is relatively easy.
If a mesmer is spamming clones, you will be able to fight against them for ages due to the lack of dps.
The problem everyone is having is with the clones, but what people realise is they die instantly, and instead of mesmers feeling like god mode, infact people are just getting annoyed that they have to kill so many clones before getting to the real player.

The clone-shatter on my hybrid condition/shatter build hurt as much as the phantasms

Mayama.1854:

Spider.3486:

Having multiple phantasms out takes longer than clones. Clones do little to no damage and die with a hit or two. If a mesmer is having lots of phantasms out (which should confuse nobody seen as theyre a white ghost colour) then the mesmer kill is relatively easy.
If a mesmer is spamming clones, you will be able to fight against them for ages due to the lack of dps.
The problem everyone is having is with the clones, but what people realise is they die instantly, and instead of mesmers feeling like god mode, infact people are just getting annoyed that they have to kill so many clones before getting to the real player.

The clone-shatter on my hybrid condition/shatter build hurt as much as the phantasms

Yes, yes it definitely does, and catching people out with confusions, especially rangers is awesome. But the feel i get from most people is the confusion from clones, after you shatter your clones there is a period where you are vulnerable, people are missing the opportunity by being in rage mode from attacking clones.

“Let me help you then: illusionary unload alone can dish out as much as 9-10k damage in single burst.”

Show me your build. Just now tested 3,2k power, 50% crit dmg. ~50%crit chance with 2x+15% illusion dmg. Max crit for golem was 6k. Going deeper. It was 18k hp and 1,8k armor. 3-4 hits (if not less) from ele/thief/warrior?

Gibon.1705:

“Let me help you then: illusionary unload alone can dish out as much as 9-10k damage in single burst.”

Show me your build. Just now tested 3,2k power, 50% crit dmg. ~50%crit chance with 2x+15% illusion dmg. Max crit for golem was 6k.

I think he makes the mistake of thinking that you need to add the numbers up.

Prelude.3817:

Problem is, underwater you can’t stomp.

Am I the only one who thinks that this is extremely stupid? Why can’t you finish enemies in the water? It makes the ruins point a pain in thekitten if there is a 2on2 or even 1on1.

Everyone just chill out, the guys behind the game no better then we do, let’s not act like we can balance a game by complaining. I’m sure they are aware of anything before us. This entire sub forum is just filled with repeat threads.

Calm down and be nice

Mayama.1854:

Gibon.1705:

“Let me help you then: illusionary unload alone can dish out as much as 9-10k damage in single burst.”

Show me your build. Just now tested 3,2k power, 50% crit dmg. ~50%crit chance with 2x+15% illusion dmg. Max crit for golem was 6k.

I think he makes the mistake of thinking that you need to add the numbers up.

Yeah and actually both failed at not adding all numbers popping… the last number to pop is the total of all damage that occured in a short timeframe.

So when u see ur pistol pet deal 1k/1.5k/2.5 then the total damage for all his attacks is 2.5k it didnt deal 1+1.5+2.5 =5k

Kalma.6579:

SuperSpicyCurry.2415:

Too many people think Mesmers are OP, they are not and you must learn how to fight them. Here’s some tips:
-Learn the animations, you can dodge Moa.
-If phantasms are doing too much damage then kill them.
-Downed state’s fine, practice fighting against mesmers. Here’s a hint: Nine times out of ten the first downed mesmer you see isn’t the real mesmer! Shocker!
-If you’re inflicted with confusion don’t keep spamming skills like an idiot
-Don’t shoot in a feedback bubble
I’m a mesmer and usually people inexperienced with fighting mesmer’s will get destroyed so if you learn how to fight us then you should be able to hold your own, stop crying for mesmer nerfs guys

Too many people think Elementalists are OK, they are not and you must learn how to fight them. Here’s some tips:
-Learn the animations, no need to dodge anything, doesnt hurt.
-If Elementals are doing too much damage then kill elementalist.
-Downed state’s fine, just finish him/her

I’m a elementalist and usually people inexperienced with fighting elementalist’s wont get destroyed so if you keep going then you should be able to hold your own, stop crying for ele changes guys

What is the purpose of this post exactly? I know the Elementalist is UP as I’m sure everyone else does. What bearing does that have on a QQ thread about the Mesmer being “OP”? Way to stay on topic.

All this complaining from horrible players (probably) the same horrible players that continue to spam skills when they have 5+ stacks of confusion or those players that continue to spam abilities with a clearly visible feedback bubble around them, how I love my mesmer.

This class punishes bad players, they then come onto forums and complain that they blew there own face up while spamming abilities, instead of using their brains and possibly figuring out why they died.

Here’s a few tips for you:

1) Learn to use the Focus Target button to put a big red bullseye over the real Mesmers head.
2) Stop spamming abilities if you have stacks of confusion on you
3) Don’t spam ranged abilities if you have a big pink bubble around you OR just MOVE out of it.
4) Kill the phantasm’s they have ridiculously low health and can be killed in one or two hits.
Phantasm’s only attack once every 5-6 seconds, they can be dodged, out ranged etc…
5) Mesmers are very slow, you can easily run away from one.

I really hope arena net does not listen to people who are not prepared to learn how to counter a play style / class.

well i will say this…ive been doing some random testing in the mist on all the classes the past week or so…mesmer is the only class that by far i could run into fights 2-1/ 3-1 with little experience with the class and still either survive or at least take someone with me (generally it was just easy to escape) and by far 1v1 I havent found a class that could easily match it…so many illusions + stealths? gg and high dps…now if only i actually liked playing mesmer in pve i could level one lol [i hate playing in the mist on a prof that i wouldnt play in pve…feels odd]

Currently I often see 4 or more mesmers in any given game. That speaks a lot.

Main reason I tend to stay out of sPvP is because I know how broken the Phantasm spam build is (15 sec or less cooldown on the burstier Phantasms) and honestly refuse to use it because I know myself it isn’t right.

If I do sPvP with my Mesmer, I run a condition clone build, killing my clones = bad because you will get more conditions on you and boon stripped, it’s also fun to run a build that is entirely Anti-Retaliation stacker Guardian due to multiple ways to inflict conditions, strip boons and generally make it impossible for them to spam retaliation.

I run the build with two forms of stealth, decoy and mass invis (Moa Bird is actually overrated imho and if you see them winding up, roll and you’ll dodge being turned into a bird) a little known thing is stealth cannot be re-entered for a few seconds after stealthing the first time (the skill will go on CD if you try but you won’t be stealthed) but this build requires a great deal more thought and skill than the mindless Phantasm spam while running away because you have to be extremely proactive, on the move constantly and willing to get into mid range to get your winds of Chaos bouncing between enemies.

The Jewel in the crown of this build is Arcane Thievery, this is what cuts down shortbow bleed stackers, condimancers and Guardians, ripping all there boons off them and replacing them with conditions is a VERY powerful skill (well balanced too because it’s on a 45 sec cooldown) the bouncing effect of winds of Chaos and innate survivability of the build also make you more than a match for the lolphantrun build.

What the build doesn’t handle well is Engineers and good Warriors (not the gimmick warriors but good ones)

Loco.4561:

4) Kill the phantasm’s they have ridiculously low health and can be killed in one or two hits.
Phantasm’s only attack once every 5-6 seconds, they can be dodged, out ranged etc….

While they don’t have high health you can spec to get it up a bit. I have to agree that it’s still a low amount of HP but most other classes don’t have the ability to frequently summon illusions that need to be downed helping their own survival (since they won’t be taking damage if people indeed do kill the illusions.

Also, you say they attack every 5-6 seconds. Right, let’s call it 6. Let’s say there are 3 of them. Let’s say they don’t all attack at the same time. 6/3=2. It’s so easy to dodge and attack every 2 seconds all day long, not.

My main beef with mesmers is infact the amount of damage they can keep doing while being out of LoS themselves. Other classes can also do this but they won’t be putting out the kind of damage the mesmer does.

I agree with what you said about targeting.

MadMaximoff.7128:

(Moa Bird is actually overrated imho and if you see them winding up, roll and you’ll dodge being turned into a bird)

It’s not very hard to time moa to hit someone coming out of a dodge roll. The duration on it is crazy long and even if it’s countered by a long CD I feel a shorter duration and shorter CD might be a better option.

I agree with you that mesmers are OP but we do not need a nerf we need some kind of overhaul. We should be the primary dmg not our phantasms they should be some kind of support/ secondary dmg source. Like maybe a phantasm that immbolizes/stuns a person? Anyway mesmers down state is extreamly annoying i will agree with you on that. But you do understand the skull taht shows your down only appears over the real one HINT HINT.

Derps.7421:

I agree with you that mesmers are OP but we do not need a nerf we need some kind of overhaul.

Most people are simply saying that certain aspects of the class need to be looked at, aka nerfed. Compensation for the class in other areas would naturally be needed.

Dxx.7156:

Derps.7421:

I agree with you that mesmers are OP but we do not need a nerf we need some kind of overhaul.

Most people are simply saying that certain aspects of the class need to be looked at, aka nerfed. Compensation for the class in other areas would naturally be needed.

Yes I know. I am mainly saying that the most important thing about mesmers that needs a change is our dmg vs phatasms dmg. We should be the primary dmg dealers. You agree no?

Derps.7421:

Yes I know. I am mainly saying that the most important thing about mesmers that needs a change is our dmg vs phatasms dmg. We should be the primary dmg dealers. You agree no?

I agree, I just feel that more of the damage should be like the mesmer GS damage is (I mean how it is done not the level that it is at).

I dont think mesmers are too bad, compared to warriors for instance! Its just that the clone/phanstasm mechanic is pretty unique in the way its implemented and peopel are not used to fighting them. Add into that the fact that differnt specs require differnt approaches to defeat and it will take a while to balance.

I’d prefer Anet to leave it as is for a while to let things settle, before jerking the nerfbat around.

On the subject of Moa, its not all that great against a decent player, they dodge, and avoid stuff, so you basically lower incomming dmg but thats all. Its powerful yes, but so are other classes elites, they are supposed to be powerful, Anet said they shoudl change the balance of a battle, and to be honest I’m not sure Moa actually does that.

Dxx.7156:

Also, you say they attack every 5-6 seconds. Right, let’s call it 6. Let’s say there are 3 of them. Let’s say they don’t all attack at the same time. 6/3=2. It’s so easy to dodge and attack every 2 seconds all day long, not.

unrealistic, are you letting them get 3 phantasms out and maintain them? why? and why assume that even in that perfect situation you’ve allowed the mesmer to get into, they wont be attacking perfectly in sync. And chances are random aoe will kill them if there are 3 out, you are likley to hit one when targetting the mesmer.

The real trap in Moa Morph is using Moa skills.

That and not getting suspicious when the mesmer stands still, points at you and fires a magic bolt that is about to turn you into a chicken and not dodgerolling that.

mesmers are strong. doesn’t mean they are op. moa is very strong, but not op. you can run, you can dodge. mesmers create clones. aoe kills them fast.
what really bothers me is the “smartness” of phantasms which don’t go away while mesmer is downed so he has a good advantage in 1v1 downed mode(i mean you can run away as thief or ele downed escape skill, phantasm will hunt you to death).
i can suggest you to avoid aoe staff skill, avoid some direct damage as duelist then after mesmer waste his breakstun chase him to death.

Interesting that Moa removes from play ranger’s pet. Why?

Moa Morph is a transform, like Lich Form or Death Shroud.

It turns you into a completely different character which is why certain pets vanish, the reason others don’t is just in the way that different ones are coded. I don’t think the inconstancy is intended it’s just a side effect of the code that they haven’t had time to fix yet.

mesmer > guardian in 1v1s

O’rly ? mesmer > guardian only if it have Moa up.

Otherwise it’s one of the easiest class to kill as a guard. The only thing to look at is if the mesmer use confusion or not. If he don’t just roflstomp him , you have absolutely all the tools needed to totally negate a mesmer, you don’t even have to care about his null field.

And tbh, I think that the most dangerous and also under rated class for 1 v 1 situation is the engineer, hands down.

For the Moa thingy : it’s sort of embarassing in 8 vs 8 but also totally fine in 5 vs 5. It’s a single target ability, you still have dodges while you are in moa form and you can still benefit all boons while you are transformed, the only problematic part is if you’re goin to be stun locked or not .. and to avoid that, you know the story, don’t let your team burn all the stability options you have until someone is transformed.

I find the thieve’s guild immensely more op than the moa for example. Sick amount of hp for each of the “pet”, really good damage.

The Jewel in the crown of this build is Arcane Thievery, this is what cuts down shortbow bleed stackers, condimancers and Guardians, ripping all there boons off them and replacing them with conditions is a VERY powerful skill

Limited at 3 boons tho