Guild Wars 2

… The map is absolute trash. From the awkward, one-off play mechanics of “trap doors” to the poorly designed routes. The map immediately deteriorates into a death match at mid. But wait, there’s more! The secondary mechanic is way too OP. This ads to the “fun”… If consistency is the bar for good e-sport (which it unquestionably is, the maps are essentially our fields to play on) by that measure skyhammer is complete garbage. Honestly, Raid on the Capricorn was a more balanced map (thank you for removing it, it was also not consistent). Just putting up a little “post it” to let you know I DESPISE Skyhammer. The designers behind it had a vision of some sort, they obviously were not taking GW2 sPvP very seriously or were just ignorant of the importance of balance for the maps themselves not just classes. Regardless, this is my (likely fruitless) request for Skyhammer to permanently retired from the game. No doubt many love it, but I know many hate it as well. Would love community thoughts on this…. TL;DR – I hate Skyhammer because it’s overall design and secondary play mechanic varies so greatly from the other maps that it doesn’t really feel like Conquest. On top of that the trap door and risk of falling add to the variation making Skyhammer as much (if not more) a game of chance than skill. This unbalance takes the subjectivity out of it. By measurable criteria of consistency Skyhammer is a very poor map for PvP. With leagues play coming up why have maps in rotation that won’t be ranked? Isn’t this just wasting our time?

It’s like the devs got drunk as all hell, played a ton of smash bros and then got the genius idea to try to make their own garbage version of a smash bros map and made kittenhammer. Atleast courtyard was fun if you had a good team,it is literally impossible for me to enjoy skyhammer regardless of how well I do.

i think foefire is actually the worst ‘conquest’ map. it should be moved to stronghold.

why are people always asking for stuff to be removed???? They’ve removed enough stuff as it it!

And no, I like Skyhammer…Risk of falling???

God get better for heavens sake

Selkirk.4218:

i think foefire is actually the worst ‘conquest’ map. it should be moved to stronghold.

Respect your opinion, but strongly disagree. While I think Battle of Kyhlo and Forest of Niflhel are the best two maps in the game (Forest is my favorite), Foefire is balanced there are great risk with going for the other teams guild lord and while Foefire also often becomes a death match in mid, the team effort needed to take out the lord & co keep things interesting. You also have no fear of falling to you death or dealing with some other asinine 3rd or 4th mechanic going on (“trap doors”, “falling on knock back”) making your skill-to-reward ratio ambiguous and just leaving the winning team feeling dirty and the loosing team raging. The design of skyhammer was meant to stir these emotions. It was designed to incense. I have great respect for the team behind all the ranked maps we saw in rotation last season as they are fairly well balanced. Temple being my least favorite but leagues ahead of Spirit Watch and Skyhammer.
I think the overall spirit behind the Skyhammer map design is juvenile. If you want respect from the eSport community you need to get rid of trash maps. A “trash map”, again a trash map can be defined by it’s lack of consistency with the other core maps. Not rocket science. If ANet wants GW2 esport to be taken seriously they need to let adults create the maps. Or force the adults who do to have a more mature design philosophy. They want to nix “trolling character names” and “trolling team names” then they need to do their part and eliminate maps like Skyhammer that just troll the players in general.

Raid on Capricor was not removed because it was ‘bad’ or players disliked it, it was because ArenaNet decided they didn’t want to ‘support’ water combat anymore and that map relied heavily on it.

By support I mean they didn’t want to try to balance it, it still exists in the game.

Mitch.4781:

why are people always asking for stuff to be removed???? They’ve removed enough stuff as it it!

And no, I like Skyhammer…Risk of falling???

God get better for heavens sake

“get better” at what exactly? Avoiding unblockable knock downs that toss me to my death? Even considering the aspects a player could focus on getting better at for sky hammer, to have a map in the game that requires players put all that effort in for ONE LITTLE KITTEN MAP that’s most certainly not going to even by in ranked rotation makes no sense. How do you rationalize that? I will give you a chance to consider the rules that govern sports, think about ANY KITTEN sport and the importance of balance of playing field and validate your suggestion of “get better” and in detail explain why one map should be left in the game that requires this level of focus. The bottom line is you’re wrong. It doesn’t make any sense. I realize I’m probably coming across a bit rude, but I have a low tolerance for ignorance and in this case I’m just asking you to put a rebuttal instead of casually blowing this off. I actually care about PvP in this game a great deal and think a map like Skyhammer makes a mockery of it.

It is the only map where trying to make your opponent fall to their death is a play mechanic. It’s the only map where on top of all the other dynamics of play you have to worry about the floor under you shattering or stepping into a shattered floor and falling to your death. If you respect GW2 as an e-sport, then consistency among mechanics has to be there. One unique secondary mechanic is the standard that was established and by invoke secondary mechanic alone the team can’t get the win. Think of NASCAR where each track is unique, but imagine if on one track NASCAR track decided to make it so drivers have to deal with oil spills that randomly occur or something ridiculous like that. That’s analogous to what Skyhammer is to the other maps. If you think I’m putting too much thought into it, then you’re coming from a different place and have no understanding of rules of play, mechanics etc that contribute to a sport being a sport. Again, consistency among the arenas is CRITICAL to making it respected. A good number of players don’t care anything about balance. The designers behind Skyhammer obviously did not, but it seems someone at ANet does care a great deal about making the game respected as an e-sport so hopefully they will listen.

skyhammer is fine and fun.

wait until 1 dec 2015 and play ranked then to avoid playing in skyhammer.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

skyhammer is fine and fun.

wait until 1 dec 2015 and play ranked then to avoid playing in skyhammer.

The fact that it’s not in ranked rotation validates that it’s a trash map…. Again it’s about the chance to skill ratio being off. But I guess some prefer chance over skill

Oh lord. A map with mechanics? Please remove ASAP. How can I be expected to not stand on disappearing floor plates and dodge roll a skyhammer?

Seriously? I haven’t lost a skyhammer because people afk a point and lose. Focus 2 bases and skyhammer. GG. Easy win.

Only kitten players flame on this map. I am by no means a PvP player and I am not good at all, but even the 1st time I was here, I noticed the holes and could avoid it very easily.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

skyhammer is fine and fun.

wait until 1 dec 2015 and play ranked then to avoid playing in skyhammer.

The fact that it’s not in ranked rotation validates that it’s a trash map…. Again it’s about the chance to skill ratio being off. But I guess some prefer chance over skill

No, that just means it’s a casual map. Much like ARAM in MOBAs. When ranked opens back up you can go back to your real maps, and us casual scrubs will enjoy our Skyhammer.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

skyhammer is fine and fun.

wait until 1 dec 2015 and play ranked then to avoid playing in skyhammer.

The fact that it’s not in ranked rotation validates that it’s a trash map…. Again it’s about the chance to skill ratio being off. But I guess some prefer chance over skill

It just validates that ranked players are whiney. Seriously the moment anything ever changes they get up in arms and demand removal/nerf.

skyhammer is just a funny im trolling you off the map..map. It has bin said before. Try forget about wining & focus more on getting ppl off the ledge for fun. Makes it easier to appreciate.

The amount people defending skyhammer is a sad and clear sign that the PvP community left the PvP forums long ago.

i quite like skyhammer… why should we removed it? i like diversity …

However … u will never find this map on ranked arena … so why complaining? >→ AnD I hope for a capricorn come back (with just 20cm of water … enough to down some asuras… huehuehue)

Nath Forge Tempete.1645:

i quite like skyhammer… why should we removed it? i like diversity …

However … u will never find this map on ranked arena … so why complaining? >-> AnD I hope for a capricorn come back (with just 20cm of water … enough to down some asuras… huehuehue)

You make a valid point. Instead of removing it a checkbox option for “Only Ranked arenas” when queuing up would also solve it. Those who want to do unranked for practice but would rather not be forced into a situation where they must play Skyhammer or abandon team should be given options.

L2p issue as always.

And for that, Ranked should have All Maps in queue.

Ranked is for people who care about Rank, i.e. proof of skill no?

Then such “skilled” player would never have a problem with such maps like Spirit Watch or Skyhammer(despite being nerfed already).

;)

witcher.3197:

The amount people defending skyhammer is a sad and clear sign that the PvP community left the PvP forums long ago.

Umm, even if the “PvP community” would still be here, there would exactly be the same amount of people defending skyhammer (maybe even more lol).

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Nath Forge Tempete.1645:

i quite like skyhammer… why should we removed it? i like diversity …

However … u will never find this map on ranked arena … so why complaining? >-> AnD I hope for a capricorn come back (with just 20cm of water … enough to down some asuras… huehuehue)

You make a valid point. Instead of removing it a checkbox option for “Only Ranked arenas” when queuing up would also solve it. Those who want to do unranked for practice but would rather not be forced into a situation where they must play Skyhammer or abandon team should be given options.

That’s actually a really good suggestion. That way everyone could play the way he/she likes, even if there is no ranked season going on.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Mitch.4781:

why are people always asking for stuff to be removed???? They’ve removed enough stuff as it it!

And no, I like Skyhammer…Risk of falling???

God get better for heavens sake

“get better” at what exactly? Avoiding unblockable knock downs that toss me to my death? Even considering the aspects a player could focus on getting better at for sky hammer, to have a map in the game that requires players put all that effort in for ONE LITTLE KITTEN MAP that’s most certainly not going to even by in ranked rotation makes no sense. How do you rationalize that? I will give you a chance to consider the rules that govern sports, think about ANY KITTEN sport and the importance of balance of playing field and validate your suggestion of “get better” and in detail explain why one map should be left in the game that requires this level of focus. The bottom line is you’re wrong. It doesn’t make any sense. I realize I’m probably coming across a bit rude, but I have a low tolerance for ignorance and in this case I’m just asking you to put a rebuttal instead of casually blowing this off. I actually care about PvP in this game a great deal and think a map like Skyhammer makes a mockery of it.

It is the only map where trying to make your opponent fall to their death is a play mechanic. It’s the only map where on top of all the other dynamics of play you have to worry about the floor under you shattering or stepping into a shattered floor and falling to your death. If you respect GW2 as an e-sport, then consistency among mechanics has to be there. One unique secondary mechanic is the standard that was established and by invoke secondary mechanic alone the team can’t get the win. Think of NASCAR where each track is unique, but imagine if on one track NASCAR track decided to make it so drivers have to deal with oil spills that randomly occur or something ridiculous like that. That’s analogous to what Skyhammer is to the other maps. If you think I’m putting too much thought into it, then you’re coming from a different place and have no understanding of rules of play, mechanics etc that contribute to a sport being a sport. Again, consistency among the arenas is CRITICAL to making it respected. A good number of players don’t care anything about balance. The designers behind Skyhammer obviously did not, but it seems someone at ANet does care a great deal about making the game respected as an e-sport so hopefully they will listen.

This is a very good point. Consistency is important unless we want people to need to change their build with each map. I would prefer not to have a ‘skyhammer’ build and a ‘everything else’ build. However, I also enjoy skyhammer. Situational awareness can and should extend to more than just what one’s opponent is doing. In skyhammer, it is important to also be aware of what the environment is doing. The environment of skyhammer is dangerous, but it is not random. You will not randomly die in skyhammer due to the environment, but you may certainly die if you are unaware, unprepared, or if you fail to stop your opponent from using the environment against you. So I would propose a second alternative that also meets these requirements of consistency between maps:

Add death traps to all maps so that they are more like Skyhammer.

Raid of Capricorn was one of the maps I had the most fun with despite the craziness of classes underwater.

8 vs 8 hotjoin, fiiiighting people on the pirate ship and loading cannons with cannon balls : 3
————-
Bottom line: I don’t think they should fully remove maps from the game and keep them for custom arenas for people that just want to mess around.

Skyhammer is about position awareness.
If I am bumped or feared out of a platform, it is because I’ve let myself in the position to being feared off or bumped.

I don’t like this map because so many people have no clue about what to do with it, but I do like how strategic positionning is on it and how it makes environmental awareness a very important part of gameplay.

1. Stability
2. Dodge roll
3. Wait ’til ranked
4. Play a pull/knockback build and troll
5. gg

Jocksy.3415:

Skyhammer is about position awareness.
If I am bumped or feared out of a platform, it is because I’ve let myself in the position to being feared off or bumped.

I don’t like this map because so many people have no clue about what to do with it, but I do like how strategic positionning is on it and how it makes environmental awareness a very important part of gameplay.

Positioning is so important to PvP, and yet so many PvP players don’t want to be bothered with it.

Jocksy.3415:

Skyhammer is about position awareness.
If I am bumped or feared out of a platform, it is because I’ve let myself in the position to being feared off or bumped.

I don’t like this map because so many people have no clue about what to do with it, but I do like how strategic positionning is on it and how it makes environmental awareness a very important part of gameplay.

For PvP to eSport map consistency is not just important, but is perhaps the MOST important element. The map mechanics that lead to defeat or win define the game being played. Imagine the game of Football or Baseball. Imagine if all pro fields/stadiums were similar except this one field had a mechanic where the audience could participate by strategically tossing Nerf footballs out on the field to help the team they were rooting for!!! As a spectator you may be thinking “that would be awesome” but the atheletes taking the game seriously it would be ridiculous, because a new mechanic was introduced that changed the core game for which the athletes trained for. Skyhammer is essentially that field with nerf footballs being thrown from the audience at the players. The analogy isn’t 1:1 but the idea is the same. Skyhammer introduces many mechanics not found on other maps. This is why beyond question, beyond subjectivity Skyhammer as a conquest map IS a horrible map. That is not an opinion. It’s something you can prove based on game design theory.

I believe those developing it were not considering eSports at all, ultimately they weren’t taking the pvp side of GW2 very seriously and just wanted to add a new map that would be a lot different.

Keep in mind, Skyhammer is classified as a conquest map yet instead of just employing a secondary mechanic as all other maps do (for Skyhammer the secondary is the canon) Skyhammer also imposes additional mechanics of potential knock downs leading to death/player scores, hydro-lifts and trap doors.

If consistency among maps is critical to fair play where skill given game rules is the measure of victory, Skyhammer sticks out like a swore thumb because of it’s cumbersome secondary mechanics that leave more to chance that to skill. It manyu scenarios it is possible to hit a player with a unblock able knock down that will lead to their death. The additional play mechanics of Skyhammer make it unique from the other conquest and that is why it will never be in ranked rotation, because people who take the game even simi-serious as eSport understand map consistency is critical to fair play. On skyhammer the wins are cheap and the losses ultimately just a waste of time. If you just love Skyhammer for the fun of it’s uniqueness, I can accept that but understand the reasons you love it are the reasons those who take the pvp side seriously hate it because they understand it’s deviation and busy mechanics makes it so it’s almost it’s own game pay that should hold a new name.

If we had 4-5 other maps with the same busy mechanics (hydro-lifts, trap doors, possibility of knock down to death) then I wouldn’t call out Skyhammer as being bad. It would just be grouped with other like-maps and it could be called something other than Conquest (Conquest-Plus) or some other name. Then we can spec our builds accordingly, etc… Kind of like we do Stronghold and did for Courtyard, bu as it stands Skyhammer is a horrible map because of it’s inconsistency.

Skyhammer is a great casual map. Wait until ranked returns and then enjoy your MLG prosports then. For now, though, screw around and have fun lol.

signed, SIGNED! i’d sign it a million times if i could, finally courtyard is gone, time for suckhammer to kick the bucket too.
the map is an abomination that should never have made it past alpha testing.

if someone picks suckhammer,
i’ll run a stealth pull/KB build and dedicate the entire game to ruining their fun.
(if i can get the idiot who picked it to own up, usually noone wants to admit it.)

… and bring back Courtyard.

I don’t like Skyhammer because I don’t find it to be fun but it is not a “juvenile” or “trash” map. It is a map that shakes things up and requires more situational awareness and positioning then other maps. I very rarely fall to my death and I can hold a point for a ridiculous amount of time in a 1v2 with the cannon raining cheese down on my head depending on the two classes I am facing.

I don’t take the Ranked community in this game very seriously because they hate and do poorly (otherwise why the complaining?) on maps that force you to think on the fly and have asymmetrical variables. Spirit Watch, Skyhammer, Stronghold, and Courtyard should all be in the Ranked rotation.

-1
It’s unranked matches.
No please.
The only positive of having only unranked arena available,
is that you can have a laugh every now and then when SH pops.

One map to rule them all,one map to fi..laugh at them
One map to bring them all(down to the wurms),and in the dar….knockbacks bind them.

courtyard was 100 times better than skyhammer and yet it was removed.

major problem with skyhammer is poorly designed cannon room. it should not be behind portal for example and there should be no instant death fall near cannon. also cannon effect area should be smaller or damage less or no knockback. also other instant death traps should be really removed and it would be actually semi-decent map, not good but playable.

now all you need is decent DH/engi spamming traps or whatsoever in cannon room or something similar and games goes full anarchy mode, especially in unranked where ppl have uhm.. Limited experience???