Guild Wars 2

I do not like to PvP. It’s not that I haven’t tried it. I have played plenty of it. I just do not like it. I really don’t. There is absolutely nothing they can possibly do that will make me enjoy my time in PvP. They can add rewards, they can change the game types, they can do whatever they like, I will not enjoy PvP. I simply do not enjoy competitive multiplayer activities, I enjoy only cooperative multiplayer, in which none of the opponents are humans. Arena Net seems unwilling to accept that I exist.

When this game launched, it was perfect so far as PvP goes. There was a PvP system, and players who wanted to play it could jump right in and play, no problems. But if you didn’t enjoy PvP, that was fine too, the game didn’t force you to. There were no rewards that PvP players could get that couldn’t be gained through PvE, and most PvP rewards were completely useless to PvEers, and that was great. I could completely ignore the PvP element, as I will always want to do, and not feel punished for it.

But then they added the wardrobe system, and suddenly seriously PvPers had tons of new skins that PvEers didn’t, many of which are difficult or even impossible to earn through PvE activities but were relatively easy under the previous PvP reward systems. They’ve also been adding more and more rewards that can only be earned through PvP, like the Balthazar backpiece, the PvP armor set, and now adorable llamas.

They also made changes to the Dailies that make it often difficult if not impossible to complete the three necessary without doing either PvP or Fractals (which are equally do-not-want), so PvP is often the only option for picking up that spare, whether we enjoy it or not.

Please fix this, all of this. Please respect that while some of your players enjoy PvP and deserve a rich play experience, many of your players DO NOT and will not, and what seems to be a continuous effort to convince players to PvP only serves to make us more and more frustrated with the game. If you want to have a mechanism to bribe players into PvPing a few times, just so they know what it’s about, that’s fair enough, go ahead on that, but once a player has played a few rounds, allow THEM to decide whether they enjoy PvP or not, and if they do not, RESPECT that choice, and allow them to go back to the elements they enjoy, without them missing out on cool rewards that they might want.

1. Add methods of earning ANY currently PvP-only rewards via PvE means, using equivalent amounts of time and effort. Don’t make them ridiculously onerous if the PvP method of earning them is relatively easy.

2. Add more PvE dailies into the rotation, so that players are never locked into doing 3/4 of the available options when many of them have inconvenient timing or onerous conditions. Bring is back to the previous standards where you could ignore most of the available options if they didn’t suit what you wanted to do.

3. Moving forward from there, just always keep in mind, some players like PvP, many players DO NOT, and design accordingly. Assume that many players will not want to do the PvP content, but also do not want to feel excluded from elements that have nothing to do with PvP, like tiny llamas. You gain nothing by forcing players to spend their precious time doing content that they do not enjoy.

Now, some PvPers will argue that there are rewards that can only be earned through PvE, and they’re upset about that. That’s a fair complaint and feel free to argue for better access to those rewards through equivalent amounts of time and effort spent doing PvP, but that’s a completely separate argument and has nothing to do with what I’m saying here.

“equivalent amounts of time and effort”

I just can’t… I just can’t… this is priceless

The vast majority of the game caters to you and you are worried about a PvP exclusive set of armor, backpiece, and mini.

this is the funniest post i’ve read in months

PvP needs more unique stuff if anything. The OP’s argument is nonsense.

Also, now that daily rewards are tied to simply logging in, all that the daily gives is achievement point progression. ANet is under no obligation to facilitate people’s pursuit of the already overbloated and inflated achievement point system that only means a few rewards every thousand thresholds and a big number next to your name.

A crucial part of PvP is being rewarded for playing well. Exclusive items for successful players is a great way to incentivize PvPers. Making that reward achievable in PvE would directly reduce it’s perceived value for PvPers. The mini was designed to fill that role for PvPers, so I whole-heartedly disagree with you here.

Ohoni.6057:

But then they added the wardrobe system, and suddenly seriously PvPers had tons of new skins that PvEers didn’t, many of which are difficult or even impossible to earn through PvE activities but were relatively easy under the previous PvP reward systems.

I still remember April 15 2014 when suddenly PvE’ers were running rampant through HotM and hotjoins with their legendaries while the hardcore pvpers only had their r50-60 gear they crafted. So… let’s not get into skins.

A crucial part of PvP is being rewarded for playing well. Exclusive items for successful players is a great way to incentivize PvPers. Making that reward achievable in PvE would directly reduce it’s perceived value for PvPers. The mini was designed to fill that role for PvPers, so I whole-heartedly disagree with you here.

If PvP players want their good play acknowledged, that’s fine. Give them things like the Dragon finisher, something that they can use IN PvP to show off that they PvP well, but that PvE players would have absolutely no use for. Do not reward PvP players with items that a PvE player might want, like mini pets or armors. If PvPer want to peakitten, that’s fine, let them, but don’t do it at the expense of PvE players.

I still remember April 15 2014 when suddenly PvE’ers were running rampant through HotM and hotjoins with their legendaries while the hardcore pvpers only had their r50-60 gear they crafted. So… let’s not get into skins.

Again, this is not the place for “PvPers have it hard too.” If you want to make those arguments, that’s perfectly fair, but make them elsewhere. No matter how bad PvPers might have it, that does not justify the problems I’m describing. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Whether PvPers are underprivileged in your mind or not is irrelevant to whether the issues I described should be corrected, and whether or not the issues I described are corrected, if PvPers currently have problems then those problems should be corrected as well, but these are two completely distinct problems with completely distinct solutions.

Nope. The two issues are very related. PvE has been Anet’s top priority, much higher than PvP, since day 1. It was the opposite way in GW1. Everything you listed that PvE’ers deserve, I strongly feel like they don’t. This was definitely the wrong place to post this.

I think OP is right. PvPers shoudn’t be rewarded with unique skins and make the PvEers feel bad. It’s absolutely disrespectful for people who prefer to run peacefully around the lands of Tyria and kill only to gather food for their families.

I’d go farther, there shouldn’t be also PvP titles, what about all these PvEers who want to display Champion title and just can’t, because they hate PvP? They should be able to get Reaper title for gathering 1000 herbes, Mist Walker title for completing 100 jumping puzzles and Legendary Champion for killing 1500 skritts. Sounds fair to me.

Nope. The two issues are very related. PvE has been Anet’s top priority, much higher than PvP, since day 1. It was the opposite way in GW1.

And again, that may be your concern and you’re entitled to it, but discuss it elsewhere because it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Eyia Hellhide.7320:

I think OP is right. PvPers shoudn’t be rewarded with unique skins and make the PvEers feel bad. It’s absolutely disrespectful for people who prefer to run peacefully around the lands of Tyria and kill only to gather food for their families.

I’d go farther, there shouldn’t be also PvP titles, what about all these PvEers who want to display Champion title and just can’t, because they hate PvP? They should be able to get Reaper title for gathering 1000 herbes, Mist Walker title for completing 100 jumping puzzles and Legendary Champion for killing 1500 skritts. Sounds fair to me.

Don’t be so narrow-minded. How could you forget about a Wall-Of-Champions for them? It’s very unfair that PvP’ers have a wall to commemorate players. There should be an even larger wall with the name of every player who successfully creates a character.

The choice is yours to make. If you want to avoid PvP, don’t play PvP. Obviously you won’t get anything that you can get exclusively in PvP but that’s part of the choice otherwise it would be not much of a choice eh?

I don’t agree with this, I think pvp and pve should have exclusive rewards.

For the dailies, I agree with you that there should be more options, but they should be reworked completely. Pvp players have been complaining about class specific dailies since the second they introduced it.

And honestly they didn’t add new llama minis for pvp players, they’ll be obtainable through tournaments which have around 8 participating each round. So, it’s not really obtainable by most pvp players.

The choice is yours to make. If you want to avoid PvP, don’t play PvP. Obviously you won’t get anything that you can get exclusively in PvP but that’s part of the choice otherwise it would be not much of a choice eh?

Exactly, it shouldn’t be a choice. You should be able to play how you enjoy AND get the rewards you want, you obviously shouldn’t have the choose at all.

I don’t agree with this, I think pvp and pve should have exclusive rewards.

Why? Who does that benefit? If a player wants a PvP-exclusive reward, what benefit is there in having him do an activity he is not enjoying? Who’s life is made better by a player spending time NOT enjoying himself? I know the delusion they operate under is that if they can just bribe players into PvPing more then eventually they’ll get Stockholm syndrome or something, but it’s just not true. some players like to PvP, and some don’t, and when a player is aware that he is in the latter category, ANet should be willing to respect that and stop trying to bribe them into not having fun.

I’m sorry but I don’t agree.

Let’s suppose, as you, that I don’t like anything about PvE, I hate it. There is ona major thing separating PvE and PvP: gold.

It doesn’t matter how many games you play, you will never be able to craft a legendary, for example. Or whatever other crafted expensive weapon.

I think that having some special rewards is fine, as it incentives to play and to play better. So as far as 1 hour of sPvP gives that much less of gold than 1 hour of dungeons (not even speedclearing them), I will be right that we have special rewards.

On a side note, please in case you don’t, try and get your daily in hotjoins (I know sometimes the autobalancing and such is a mess). It really is at most 30 min a day to get dailies and it greatly helps you in reward tracks, that is, completing the backpiece or the Glorious Armor set.

This is my little bit. I disagree and I think we should even get more special rewards.

Ohoni.6057:

Nope. The two issues are very related. PvE has been Anet’s top priority, much higher than PvP, since day 1. It was the opposite way in GW1.

And again, that may be your concern and you’re entitled to it, but discuss it elsewhere because it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Nope. It’s talking about exactly the same topic as you. You simply don’t like that basically everyone here disagrees with you.

Let’s suppose, as you, that I don’t like anything about PvE, I hate it. There is ona major thing separating PvE and PvP: gold.

It doesn’t matter how many games you play, you will never be able to craft a legendary, for example. Or whatever other crafted expensive weapon.

Again, the “there are things you can earn only in PvE” discussion may be a valid one, and you’re free to have it, but it’s completely irrelevant to this one. It’s worth noting that you can win legendaries via PvP tournaments, which if you’re good at PvP is significantly easier than any existing PvE method of obtaining one.

if you what PvP rewards improved so that you feel time spent in PvP is more equivalent to time spent in PvE, that’s all well and good, but it should be seeking a symmetrical balance, not some sort of asymmetrical balance in which both sides are missing out.

Nope. It’s talking about exactly the same topic as you. You simply don’t like that basically everyone here disagrees with you.

So far most people who “disagree with me” are whining about how PvP rewards aren’t as good as they like, which isn’t actually disagreeing with me, it’s just discussing an entirely separate topic, like if one player says that Thieves aren’t strong enough, and someone else retorts that Engineers are too strong. Both could be right, or both could be wrong, but they’re just talking past each other either way.

Also, I’m not hoping for a second to find general agreement with my position on the PvP-centric board. That’s not the point. I’m posting here because it’s the board that PvP-centric developers seem to frequent, and they are the ones that need to make the changes.

Respect PvE players? Naaaaaaaah! Also everything you typed is silly! PvP perfect on release? Anet unwilling to cater to PvE players? You’re living in a dream world my frand!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Ohoni.6057:

The choice is yours to make. If you want to avoid PvP, don’t play PvP. Obviously you won’t get anything that you can get exclusively in PvP but that’s part of the choice otherwise it would be not much of a choice eh?

Exactly, it shouldn’t be a choice. You should be able to play how you enjoy AND get the rewards you want, you obviously shouldn’t have the choose at all.

I don’t agree with this, I think pvp and pve should have exclusive rewards.

Why? Who does that benefit? If a player wants a PvP-exclusive reward, what benefit is there in having him do an activity he is not enjoying? Who’s life is made better by a player spending time NOT enjoying himself? I know the delusion they operate under is that if they can just bribe players into PvPing more then eventually they’ll get Stockholm syndrome or something, but it’s just not true. some players like to PvP, and some don’t, and when a player is aware that he is in the latter category, ANet should be willing to respect that and stop trying to bribe them into not having fun.

Hi,
So lets try to frame an argument
The OP wants minis and armors because it is useful in PvE. So the vice versa should also be available
So i guess this applies to exclusive pvpers too right?
A lot of exclusive PvPers want to obtain legendary. But one thing that is impossible to get by playing only pvp(consider i hate PvE just like you hate pvp) is the GIFT OF EXPLORATION.
So if you want Anet to give you pvp exclusive rewards then please tell Anet to add a reward track to give us Gift Of Exploration.

Okay, so play courtyard and stay out of conquest.. oh wait.

Well if you want to be politically correct with respect to arguments being made:

-This is the PvP forum, not the PvE Suggestions forum or PvE-request forum

-You come in here holding a discussion about why pve’ers should get pvp-rewards and accuse people of derailing your thread when they point out the imbalances.

-You skirt around the points everyone is making holding some pseudo-discussion when in reality it appears like you’re attempting to play the victim to get dev-sympathy, otherwise why else would you create a topic—open to the public—and not engage anyone in a discussion about the issue. The tone of your posts appear to be “either support me or stop posting in my topic.”

-This is the PvP forum where we discuss pvp-related issues. You can’t mask a begging thread for PvE to be a PvP topic simply because you want the items.

If the purpose of your thread is to hold a discussion with pvp-players about the differences between the two systems and possible solutions, then great, do it. If it’s a PvE thread whining about how its not fair pvp players get items then this doesn’t belong here. Just more pve junk pvp’ers have to salvage and destroy…

The OP wants minis and armors because it is useful in PvE. So the vice versa should also be available
So i guess this applies to exclusive pvpers too right?

Yes, but as I’ve said numerous times, that is a completely separate discussion for a completely separate thread.

-This is the PvP forum, not the PvE Suggestions forum or PvE-request forum

-You come in here holding a discussion about why pve’ers should get pvp-rewards and accuse people of derailing your thread when they point out the imbalances.

-You skirt around the points everyone is making holding some pseudo-discussion when in reality it appears like you’re attempting to play the victim to get dev-sympathy, otherwise why else would you create a topic—open to the public—and not engage anyone in a discussion about the issue. The tone of your posts appear to be “either support me or stop posting in my topic.”

-This is the PvP forum where we discuss pvp-related issues. You can’t mask a begging thread for PvE to be a PvP topic simply because you want the items.

If the purpose of your thread is to hold a discussion with pvp-players about the differences between the two systems and possible solutions, then great, do it. If it’s a PvE thread whining about how its not fair pvp players get items then this doesn’t belong here. Just more pve junk pvp’ers have to salvage and destroy…

Lux, I have been willing to engage anyone on the topic at hand, ie whether PvE players should be able to gain access to currently PvP-exclusive rewards. I have not been willing to engage on the completely separate topic of whether PvP players should be able to gain access to PvE-exclusive rewards, because it IS off topic, but if anyone wants to start a thread on that topic, nobody is stopping them from doing so. If people want to continue to derail this thread into discussions about PvPers wanting better rewards then all I can do is report them, but I’m certainly not going to join in with them.

I posted my comments on this board because it relates directly to PvP mechanics, resolving it would fall under the purview of the PvP developers, and because the “PvE Suggestions forum or PvE-request forum” you recommend does not actually exist.

Ohoni.6057:

1. Add methods of earning ANY currently PvP-only rewards via PvE means, using equivalent amounts of time and effort. Don’t make them ridiculously onerous if the PvP method of earning them is relatively easy.

Why? I mean, should Anet also make Fractal Weapons part of the reward tracks and make them trivial?
Or Tequatl Weapons/Wurmslayer Armour?

A distinction in goods is good because if you truly want it, it means you understand the value of said armour piece or weapon… If you do not like the way you obtain it, well you are out of luck, but it was you who wanted it and not Anet who forced you to want it

2. Add more PvE dailies into the rotation, so that players are never locked into doing 3/4 of the available options when many of them have inconvenient timing or onerous conditions. Bring is back to the previous standards where you could ignore most of the available options if they didn’t suit what you wanted to do.

Here is something I do not get… You chose to play how you want, which is what I do (AFK-ing for multiple hours while watching streams or be on TS/Skype) – yet you want to be rewarded for only doing what you want? This makes absolutely no sense

If you want your precious 5AP, you get the options to get them… And even if the daily fractal is too hard, you can always go in WvWvW, run to a capture point and be done with the day – which is several times quicker than achieving something in PvP anyway… If you do not want to do it? Well then you do not even deserve the 5AP you can get

3. Moving forward from there, just always keep in mind, some players like PvP, many players DO NOT, and design accordingly. Assume that many players will not want to do the PvP content, but also do not want to feel excluded from elements that have nothing to do with PvP, like tiny llamas. You gain nothing by forcing players to spend their precious time doing content that they do not enjoy.

I think the only think PvP’ers dislike is the fact that they do not get acknowledged for the efforts they put into the game if you are not top10 quality – which exclusive rewards would solve \o/

Now, some PvPers will argue that there are rewards that can only be earned through PvE, and they’re upset about that. That’s a fair complaint and feel free to argue for better access to those rewards through equivalent amounts of time and effort spent doing PvP, but that’s a completely separate argument and has nothing to do with what I’m saying here.

And those PvP’ers need to realize that if they want it badly, they have the option to go get it… If you do not want to participate in said activity – then don’t complain… People feel entitled to have everything… such a disgusting attitude

It is like wanting to drive the Garbage Truck because it looks cool without being a Trash Collector… Get your hands dirty if you want to drive the cool car dangit!

Here I’ll stay on topic for you. I think that the changes YOU proposed are preposterous and should never be implemented. I’m not referring to rewards pvpers should be able to get from pve. I’m saying everything you said, I disagree with. Is that still on topic enough for you or did I do it wrong?

One way of discussing about things is Counter Argument. Which is what many of us tried to do but you consider it to be a deviation from your thread.

So you want our opinions on your topic. My personal opinion is you can not equate time spent in pve and time played in pvp. So you can not get these pvp exclusive rewards.

Why? I mean, should Anet also make Fractal Weapons part of the reward tracks and make them trivial?
Or Tequatl Weapons/Wurmslayer Armour?

Yes. There should also be PvE methods of earning them that do not involve running Fractals or RNG drops from those bosses. That’s really a separate discussion though, and there’s been a lot of talk on those topics already.

If you do not like the way you obtain it, well you are out of luck, but it was you who wanted it and not Anet who forced you to want it

But why would they benefit from me not having a thing that I want? They don’t get any more money that way, they aren’t making anyone any happier? Are you accusing them of just trolling us for no good reason?

I think the only think PvP’ers dislike is the fact that they do not get acknowledged for the efforts they put into the game if you are not top10 quality – which exclusive rewards would solve \o/

Again, if PvP players want some acknowledgement for their efforts, that’s fine, but it should come in the form of things that either PvE players can also get through alternate means, or through things that PvE players would never want (ie not minis or armor or things that have any practical or cosmetic value in the PvE areas of the game). Maybe PvP players could get unique finishers based on how much PvPing they’ve been doing. The players that PvP more could have fancier finishers, but it really wouldn’t be a factor for PvE players, since finishers are almost never used in PvE.

Here I’ll stay on topic for you. I think that the changes YOU proposed are preposterous and should never be implemented. I’m not referring to rewards pvpers should be able to get from pve. I’m saying everything you said, I disagree with. Is that still on topic enough for you or did I do it wrong?

No, that was on topic. You disagree with me, and that’s fair.

This is one of the saddest threads in recent memory. OP, sometimes you have to work to get cool stuff in a game. You can’t go crying at everything that isn’t just handed to you for free.

The PvP-exclusive skins, armors, and minis are completely unnecessary for PvE. You might want them, true, but you don’t actually need them to partake in any PvE activity. This is the same rationale that ArenaNet uses to justify the existence of ascended armor – obtaining it is a bit of a grind, but it’s a completely optional grind, because it’s not really necessary for most areas of the game. At no point is anyone being forced to participate in any activities that they do not wish to undertake in order to perform well in the parts of the game that they do favor. ArenaNet recognizes that PvP isn’t for everyone – that’s why the gear obtained from it doesn’t have any special stat attributes or bonuses that would make them superior to PvE equipment. At the same time, they also recognize that PvE isn’t for everyone – that’s why PvP doesn’t use the PvE equipment system. The PvP-exclusive rewards are purely cosmetic, so I don’t see how you’re being punished for not participating in PvP. At the same time, if ArenaNet did relax the requirements to obtain them, I feel that it would detract from the inherent prestige and exclusivity of those items – the impression of “Oh, that guy has the glorious armor skins, clearly he’s put some time and effort into playing PvP” – and consequently reduce the satisfaction that other players derive from acquiring them. As I see it, this isn’t a tactic to draw new players into PvP – it’s a method of rewarding the really dedicated players who find it to their liking. Since similarly unique rewards exist for PvE (luminescent/carapace armor skins, fractal weapons), I’m fairly confident in saying that ArenaNet has deliberately designed these requirements to reflect the effort that their owners put into the relevant game mode, and barring a complete reversal of that philosophy, I don’t see them changing anytime soon.

With that said, I do agree that it would be nice if the current pool of dailies were expanded such that players didn’t have to go out of their way (or into different game modes) to hunt down their ten achievement points, but it’s really only a minor inconvenience either way.

Ohoni.6057:

If you do not like the way you obtain it, well you are out of luck, but it was you who wanted it and not Anet who forced you to want it

But why would they benefit from me not having a thing that I want? They don’t get any more money that way, they aren’t making anyone any happier? Are you accusing them of just trolling us for no good reason?

I will only respond to this…

Imagine a world where you could get everything you wanted… Literally everything with just whatever you did – waking up, eating something, brushing your teeth, do something trivial, get back home, eat more and tadaa – you get the ability to get everything …

Where is the sense of accomplishment? Why would you ever become good in a certain aspect of the game like PvP, World Bosses, Fractals if you can just frollick in the open world and get all kinds of goodness?

I find equal oppertunitists within an MMO with several levels of gameplay beyond my understanding… You got an option to get everything you want – but in turn you need to work for it appropriately…
Cannot stand PvP and will never become one of the top10’s? Oh My Life, better complain about people who get medals for Olympic Events as well no?

You work for it, or you don’t… Complaining that you are “locked out” because YOU cannot be kitten d to do the appropriate tasks means the problem lies with you and you only

If you want something; you work for it. Once you get it, you earned it and you dang well know you’ve earned it.

Did I enjoy rezzing 1,000 things for Combat Healer title? Nope. But I’m glad I just stuck through it and eventually got it.

Did I like being obliterated in PvP for a part of the Glorious Armor box skins? Not really but I endured every second of it and I’m so happy I finally got that reward.

Did I have fun waiting out in WvW till our guild had enough players to assault a keep and capture it for the daily? Not in the slightest but I definitely got that daily done a while after.

This game caters to PvP, PvE and WvW. There are certain requirements for things. Attempt it, endure it, deal with it and appreciate your hard earned reward.

This is one of the saddest threads in recent memory. OP, sometimes you have to work to get cool stuff in a game. You can’t go crying at everything that isn’t just handed to you for free.

Nobody’s saying you shouldn’t have to work for it, nobody’s saying anyone should get anything for free. All I’m asking for is alternative methods of earning these things, so that you can spend time and effort in PvP and get them, or spend time and effort in PvE and get them, whichever you prefer.

The PvP-exclusive skins, armors, and minis are completely unnecessary for PvE. You might want them, true, but you don’t actually need them to partake in any PvE activity.

This is a pointless argument to make. Whether I need them or not is entirely subjective to me and not for your to decide. If it comes down to it, absolutely everything in a game is not “necessary,” you can run around at level 80 in your underwear if you like, you don’t “need” even blue gear, but players have a reasonable interest in acquiring it anyway.

At no point is anyone being forced to participate in any activities that they do not wish to undertake in order to perform well in the parts of the game that they do favor. ArenaNet recognizes that PvP isn’t for everyone – that’s why the gear obtained from it doesn’t have any special stat attributes or bonuses that would make them superior to PvE equipment.

And the entire point of my post is that if they believe that this is “good enough,” that so long as it doesn’t impact stat balancing or whatever, then I am letting them know that it is not. If they were to offer me either a crate of fully ascended armor for all my characters, or a crate that contains a variety of purely cosmetic skins that I really like the look of, and if I picked box A I would never get those skins, while if I picked box B then I could never wear anything more than Rares on my characters, I would still choose box B.

Making an item cosmetic does NOT make it less necessary. EVERYTHING in the game is exactly as objectively necessary or unnecessary as anything else, and any value placed on it is purely subjective.

I’m fairly confident in saying that ArenaNet has deliberately designed these requirements to reflect the effort that their owners put into the relevant game mode, and barring a complete reversal of that philosophy, I don’t see those changing anytime soon.

And if you read my first post, I completely reject that philosophy. I feel it’s fine for them to encourage players to TRY all systems of the game, for example offering a reward for playing 3-10 PvP matches, but once they’ve got players through the door, once that player has tried the system they are hoping to promote, they should respect that player’s opinion and no longer bribe them into sticking around.

If you lock a reward behind, say, 50 PvP matches, then you are saying that either A. the player enjoys PvP and will get the item for doing what he already wanted to do, or B. the player doesn’t enjoy PvP, so you’ve gotten him to spend many hours NOT enjoying himself, congratulations. Why can’t both players be doing activities that they enjoy while progressing towards the rewards they are looking for?

Where is the sense of accomplishment? Why would you ever become good in a certain aspect of the game like PvP, World Bosses, Fractals if you can just frollick in the open world and get all kinds of goodness?

The sense of accomplishment is entirely up to you. If you kill Tequatl ten times and a Sunless weapon drops, and you feel accomplishment at that, great. If you kill Tequatl 100 times and a Sunless weapon never drops for you, are you less accomplished than that first guy? I can feel a sense of accomplishments for jumping up to tricky locations that are not official jumping puzzles and have no chest attached. I can kill a world boss for the hundredth time and not feel particularly excited about that.

If I want to feel a sense of accomplishment, then I choose a goal that I believe will be difficult, and I achieve that goal. Nobody else is capable of setting a sense of entitlement for me. If you want to earn a llama using the current tournament methods, then that’s great. Go out and do that, and if you get them, nobody can take that accomplishment away from you. You did that. If I can earn him by doing something else, completing some repeatable collection achievement or something, then that’s me, it has nothing to do with you or your accomplishments.

Cannot stand PvP and will never become one of the top10’s? Oh My Life, better complain about people who get medals for Olympic Events as well no?

I never said anything about wanting to be in a top position on a leaderboard without actually playing, you guys can keep that stuff, but if there’s cool looking armor, I want that.

Did I enjoy rezzing 1,000 things for Combat Healer title? Nope. But I’m glad I just stuck through it and eventually got it.

Did I like being obliterated in PvP for a part of the Glorious Armor box skins? Not really but I endured every second of it and I’m so happy I finally got that reward.

Did I have fun waiting out in WvW till our guild had enough players to assault a keep and capture it for the daily? Not in the slightest but I definitely got that daily done a while after.

So you wouldn’t have been happier if the entire time you spent not enjoying any of those things, you could have instead been doing stuff that you did enjoy, and still receive those rewards? I cannot understand that philosophy.

Again, I think most of the people disagree with you: there is PvE exclusive things we cannot get from PvP.

You CANNOT argue that we don’t need skins or minis, because it’s no use for a PvE player to have them either, as they don’t increase your stats or something. You know, PvP players also want to look pretty!

The Fractal weapons or the World Bosses skins are examples. They are of course RNG gated, but it’s in the end PvE exclusive. If you don’t wanna try get them in PvE because you don’t like RNG it’s not our fault to be honest.

I still find this an irrelevant topic for the PvP Forums.

I don’t know if anyone else is going to pick apart your long winded post piece by piece, but I will gladly bite the bait.

Arena Net seems unwilling to accept that I exist.

This is unequivocally untrue. Compared to other games of similar genre, Anet caters MOSTLY to its casual PvE player base. Now whether this is a good thing or a bad thing can be argued, but I think you’re one of the first players I know after playing the game since near launch has said such a thing.

When this game launched, it was perfect so far as PvP goes. There was a PvP system, and players who wanted to play it could jump right in and play, no problems. But if you didn’t enjoy PvP, that was fine too, the game didn’t force you to.

lol The game still doesn’t force you to play PvP.

There were no rewards that PvP players could get that couldn’t be gained through PvE, and most PvP rewards were completely useless to PvEers, and that was great. I could completely ignore the PvP element, as I will always want to do, and not feel punished for it.

There are few items that can only be gotten exclusively through PvP. Would you like me to list the items that can only be exclusively gotten from PvE content???

But then they added the wardrobe system, and suddenly seriously PvPers had tons of new skins that PvEers didn’t, many of which are difficult or even impossible to earn through PvE activities but were relatively easy under the previous PvP reward systems.

Considering that PvPers were never decently rewarded for playing the content until those changes, I don’t think this is so horrible. Which skins are you saying are difficult/impossible to get? I need examples. So far, your post is full of hyperbole.

They also made changes to the Dailies that make it often difficult if not impossible to complete the three necessary without doing either PvP or Fractals (which are equally do-not-want), so PvP is often the only option for picking up that spare, whether we enjoy it or not.

We might agree here. I don’t want players like you in PvP just for the dailies. And it’s bad enough having people on classes that they know nothing about. I’m sure people doing Fractals don’t want you on their team either… Anet needs to rework the dailies. This may be a radical idea, but I wouldn’t mind if PvPers didn’t have dailies at all…

Please fix this, all of this. Please respect that while some of your players enjoy PvE and deserve a rich play experience, many of your players DO NOT and will not, and what seems to be a continuous effort to convince players to PvE only serves to make us more and more frustrated with the game. If you want to have a mechanism to bribe players into PvEing a few times, just so they know what it’s about, that’s fair enough, go ahead on that, but once a player has played a few rounds, allow THEM to decide whether they enjoy PvE or not, and if they do not, RESPECT that choice, and allow them to go back to the elements they enjoy, without them missing out on cool rewards that they might want.

Fixed.

1. Add methods of earning ANY currently PvP-only rewards via PvE means, using equivalent amounts of time and effort. Don’t make them ridiculously onerous if the PvP method of earning them is relatively easy.

Are you against game modes having exclusive items??? That’s my first question. More importantly, if you are, then how do you propose they add all of the PvE exclusive items into PvP?

Now, some PvPers will argue that there are rewards that can only be earned through PvE, and they’re upset about that. That’s a fair complaint and feel free to argue for better access to those rewards through equivalent amounts of time and effort spent doing PvP, but that’s a completely separate argument and has nothing to do with what I’m saying here.

Actually it’s not a separate argument at all. What you fail to apparently understand is that pvpers have been getting the short ends of the stick in terms of rewards SINCE LAUNCH. And even now, it takes less effort AND time to get better and more rewards in PvE. PvP content is harder and less pleasant. The tracks take longer. You get less loot. You get less gold. In a format that has never been rewarding financially (which also translates to less ability to purchase stuff from the gem store and TP), the logical thing for pvpers is to gain exclusive items.

I think all game formats should have exclusive rewards. There should be a healthy balance between time/effort and players should be compensated for such. Right now, rewards are ok in PvP, but it takes a lot more time and effort than in PvE. See my signature for some ideas on how to improve the reward system. Right now, it seems like WvWers are the ones who keep getting crapped on in this regard, but the last person I’m willing to listen cry about this issue is a PvEr.

Ohoni.6057:

The vast majority of the game caters to you and you are worried about a PvP exclusive set of armor, backpiece, and mini.

There’s a whole paragraph. . .

Geez, reading comprehension these days.

Geeze, awareness of audience these days. You thought you’d post this in this sub-forum and not be looked at a slightly worse than a pop-up virus?

I don’t think I’ve ever come across a thread of someone who is oblivious to how spoon fed PvE has been since day one compared to PvP. 9/10, would read again for the lawls.

Countless

You want everybody to be able to get everything by doing anything. Here’s the simple answer to that. People like having rewards unique to certain content. Ideally, I wouldn’t have the reward tracks give the dungeon armor at all. They would all give unique PvP skins instead. However, Anet isn’t going to put that much effort and resources into the PvP scene, so that’s why the dungeon exclusive sets are now available in another way. Since you seem unwilling to talk at all about the topic except on the exact question you’re asking, here is the answer:

http://strawpoll.me/4180294

I just made this poll. Let’s see what the community prefers? Note that this is not unique to the Mini Llamas. This is also on the topic of Fractal Skins and Wurmslayer’s and the like being exclusive, as I think most people prefer some things like that.

ok /15

With all due respect OP, these " more and more rewards " that PvP keeps getting…..is 1 armor set and a backpiece SKIN and 1 minipet. They are all cosmetic and its 8 unique things to PvP……8. Do you complain that you have to get some armors through gem store too?

Furthermore do you hear PvP’ers complain they can’t get the triple trouble wurm armor through PvP? What about fractal weapons? Too often PvE’ers or more casual players feel entitled to be able to get everything that everyone else can get without any effort. This game did something fantastic and finally broke the mold of players like you actually having something to complain about. You shouldn’t be locked out of progression or be behind in stats because you play less. Traditional MMO’s always sucked for that…..these are just cosmetic items and as I pointed out as well there are already skins in PvE that are exclusive too.

I don’t enjoy much about this game, but there is one thing I really like: dodge rolling. I spend hours every day just dodge rolling through Queensdale. I actually have 7000 hours logged, and all I do is dodge roll. But you know what would make dodge rolling even more fun? That shiny fractal capacitor. I really want it, but I don’t like fractals. I shouldn’t have to do something I don’t enjoy, so can we add a new way to get that fractal capacitor for me? I’ll dodge roll a million times! Or maybe I can do it in a special pattern, like a summoning ritual to the dodge roll gods!

The old system, when PvP and PvE armors were still split, was much better than what we have now in terms of identity and showing dedication. As they won’t go back to that, it should be obvious that – if anything – there should be more PvP exclusive stuff. The changes totally smashed everything that PvP players had going for them. Whats left from that? A lousy title for about 50 players of which 2/3 aren’t even playing anymore and a mediocre armor set.

Grats OP, you have just won the Internet and are hereby given the Most Colossal Sense of Entitlement Award for early 2015. I’ll tell you what, though – you get your wish once I can gain access to legendaries and PvE exclusive skins by doing nothing but PvP. Sound fair?

Also, “equivalent amounts of time and effort” made me crack up hard, so thanks for that.

I think this thread is quite silly. Even if a PvPer asked for everything available from PvE I wouldn’t consider it more valid.

MMOs generally always have a PvE and PvP mode. The game developers obviously want to entice you to play all of their product. Their goal is to give as many people as many good things as possible as that will give their game longevity and popularity.

It’s the players’ fault for restricting themselves to one game mode. If you do that you miss out on a lot of work Anet puts into the game. You most likely won’t stay as long because it’s easier to burn out on just one side of the content. Of course their goal will be to keep trying to entice people into certain modes because it’s good for the sake of their product AND playerbase. The easiest way to do that is rewards, as that is what a majority of the people strive for in MMOs. Would you ever want to try fractals out if you could just PvP for 2 hours for a weapon? Would you ever want to PvP if you could get a balthazar backpack from a jumping puzzle? The answer would always be no for some, but for many others having the exclusivity has got them interested in more of the game.

People have some obtuse form of thinking. If you really want a reward, you go out and get it. If the way of obtaining it for you is not fun, don’t do it. No one is forcing you. But Anet is doing their job as a company. It may not be good for you, but if it wasn’t for Anet always trying to get more well rounded players I would’ve never tried PvP or even WvW as I used to shy away from PvP.

Also what’s the big deal with dailies? You literally get nothing but 10 achievement points from them. If you care that much about achievement point but aren’t willing to participate and enjoy all formats of the game you’ll never have as many achievement points as others. Half of the WvW ones are PvE, and take like 5 minutes to do. Instead of making a mockery of the PvP dailies why don’t you go kill a sentry, a dolyak, or stand on a ruin? There are so many easier ways of doing the daily then just the PvE ones, but people’s stubbornness or lack of an open mind block it out for them.

I guess my point is instead of asking for some respect, you should respect them as a company and their product as a whole trying to appease millions of people, and they need to do it in the way they believe will benefit the majority.

At the moment every game mode (PvE, PvP and WvW) has its unique Rewards. I think that is absolutely OK. If you don’t think so the solution is not to don’t allow the PvP-Players their little rewards. The only rightful solution would then be to give all modes the same reward (same in type and amount). But this would mean PvE-Players get much less rewards, or PvP-Players and WvW-Players get much more rewards.

I do agree with OP on one thing- people who hate pvp but crave dailies should not have to play pvp for their dailies. They dont want to be in pvp and I dont want them in hotjoin because they’re the types playing turret engi and having a real sour attitude about everything while i’m trying to learn a new class/build in earnest.

Not sure if troll or extremely self centered.

So… I’m a roleplayer. My idea of having fun in this game is to sit in one of the cities typing in /say and throwing in the occasional emote. Minis and armor skins are VERY important in making my character look appropriate for the role I am playing.

So by your logic why can’t I earn my much needed gold and skins playing the game the way I choose to? Probably because that’s not how games work.

You want PVP exclusive rewards? You have to do PVP. The reward is given to people to reward them for doing PVP. Giving them out in PVE would remove what’s special about them.

It’s like wanting to win the Super Bowl and only wanting to play baseball to do it. You can’t. You’re playing an entirely different sport without the same “game world”.

One thing I agree with Ohoni is that dailies should be separated. But that goes also with class specific daily. Both things bring PvE players or classes people can’t play at all into PvP where it doesn’t belong just to get a stupid crate . But as rewards go, really?