Guild Wars 2

Ohoni.6057:

Again, the “there are things you can earn only in PvE” discussion may be a valid one, and you’re free to have it, but it’s completely irrelevant to this one.

radicalfeminism.txt

Ok at first i thought this was a pvper on an alt account posting on the forums to rustle all them pvp jimmies, but turns out this guy is legit with his pattern of thought. He actually thinks that pve’ers are being neglected..Figured that one out when I noticed he wrote over 10k words on why silk raised in price by checking his post history.

I think this officially takes the cake of the most ridiculous thing i’ve read in a while. Rest in peace, All is vain thread, champion post.

Again, I think most of the people disagree with you: there is PvE exclusive things we cannot get from PvP.

You CANNOT argue that we don’t need skins or minis, because it’s no use for a PvE player to have them either, as they don’t increase your stats or something. You know, PvP players also want to look pretty!

And again, I don’t disagree with you. I have absolutely no interest in keeping anything available in PvE away from PvP players and support you in arguing for more access to PvE rewards, but it is not relevant to this topic, so please take such discussions elsewhere.

This is unequivocally untrue. Compared to other games of similar genre, Anet caters MOSTLY to its casual PvE player base.

So long as we are willing to do WvW and PvP when we want to get various things. . .

Which skins are you saying are difficult/impossible to get? I need examples. So far, your post is full of hyperbole.

It can be confusing to track down exact armor names, but I believe it’s the PvP Devout set that can’t be gained outside of the old PvP reward system? At least one of those. And then there are a ton of dungeon reward and other armor sets that were much easier to get through PvP.

I mean, I barely PvPed before the wardrobe changes and I have dozens of armor pieces and weapon models unlocked that I otherwise would not have. If I had been a serious PvPer prior to the change over there would be a ton of sets that I’d have completely unlocked.

Are you against game modes having exclusive items??? That’s my first question. More importantly, if you are, then how do you propose they add all of the PvE exclusive items into PvP?

I’ll direct you to read posts above yours. If you’re still confused after that I’ll give a more complete response.

It’s the players’ fault for restricting themselves to one game mode. If you do that you miss out on a lot of work Anet puts into the game.

Just because they put work into a system doesn’t mean players will enjoy it. A player who only enjoys one portion of the game is not “missing out” on the other portions, he just enjoys what he enjoys, and does not enjoy what he does not. Nobody benefits from forcing that player to play the portions that he does not enjoy, least of all ANet because that only leads to him burning out on the game quicker.

As I said, I think it’s fine for them to offer incentive for players to TRY all systems, by offering unique rewards that take minimal effort within that activity, but once they know players have at least tried the system, they should respect that player’s decision, and not continue to bribe them into playing that system if they do not enjoy it.

Ohoni.6057:

I do not like to PvE. It’s not that I haven’t tried it. I have played plenty of it. I just do not like it. I really don’t. There is absolutely nothing they can possibly do that will make me enjoy my time in PvE. They can add rewards, they can change the game types, they can do whatever they like, I will not enjoy PvE. I simply do not enjoy cooperative multiplayer activities, I enjoy only competitive multiplayer, in which all of the opponents are humans. Arena Net seems unwilling to accept that I exist.

When this game launched, it was perfect so far as PvE goes. There was a PvE system, and players who wanted to play it could jump right in and play, no problems. But if you didn’t enjoy PvE, that was fine too, the game didn’t force you to. There were no rewards that PvE players could get that couldn’t be gained through PvP, and most PvE rewards were completely useless to PvPers, and that was great. I could completely ignore the PvE element, as I will always want to do, and not feel punished for it.

But then they added the wardrobe system, and suddenly seriously PvEers had tons of new skins that PvPers didn’t, many of which are difficult or even impossible to earn through PvP activities but were relatively easy under the previous PvE reward systems. They’ve also been adding more and more rewards that can only be earned through PvE, like the Mawdrey backpiece, the Luminescent and Carapace armor set, and now adorable cats.

They also made changes to the Dailies that make it often difficult if not impossible to complete the three necessary without doing either PvE or Fractals (which are equally do-not-want), so PvE is often the only option for picking up that spare, whether we enjoy it or not.

Please fix this, all of this. Please respect that while some of your players enjoy PvE and deserve a rich play experience, many of your players DO NOT and will not, and what seems to be a continuous effort to convince players to PvE only serves to make us more and more frustrated with the game. If you want to have a mechanism to bribe players into PvEing a few times, just so they know what it’s about, that’s fair enough, go ahead on that, but once a player has played a few rounds, allow THEM to decide whether they enjoy PvE or not, and if they do not, RESPECT that choice, and allow them to go back to the elements they enjoy, without them missing out on cool rewards that they might want.

1. Add methods of earning ANY currently PvE-only rewards via PvP means, using equivalent amounts of time and effort. Don’t make them ridiculously onerous if the PvE method of earning them is relatively easy.

2. Add more PvP dailies into the rotation, so that players are never locked into doing 3/4 of the available options when many of them have inconvenient timing or onerous conditions. Bring us back to the previous standards where you could ignore most of the available options if they didn’t suit what you wanted to do.

3. Moving forward from there, just always keep in mind, some players like PvE, many players DO NOT, and design accordingly. Assume that many players will not want to do the PvE content, but also do not want to feel excluded from elements that have nothing to do with PvE, like tiny cats. You gain nothing by forcing players to spend their precious time doing content that they do not enjoy.

Now, some PvEers will argue that there are rewards that can only be earned through PvP, and they’re upset about that. That’s a fair complaint and feel free to argue for better access to those rewards through equivalent amounts of time and effort spent doing PvE, but that’s a completely separate argument and has nothing to do with what I’m saying here.

I swapped PvP and PvE… did I do that right??

I direct you again to my response and the poll asking what players want. Players enjoy the exclusive gear, so your argument is moot.

Jelle.2807:

Not sure if troll or extremely self centered.

A bit of both I believe, If you look at the post history he’s against any rewards that are not specifically for him. He’s also partially responsible for the closing of the raid CDI because that would be content with rewards not for him gasp.

@OP
I’ve had this argument with you several times already but I’ll say it again.
Time spent in different pieces of content are non-equatable, rewards for completing/ spending time in specific pieces of content tends to be a more satisfying system for most people. All the items are not for you they are for different players who have done different things.

The game can’t be designed around you playing 10% of the game and expecting 100% of the rewards. Your likes and dislikes of pieces of content are irrelevant because that is something subjective to each player.

Play 100% of the game and you’ll have access to 90%* of the rewards and that should be more than enough for you, expecting everything is just greed.

*(90% cos the last 10% are for exclusives, rares and Prestige items, all things you’re against if I recall correctly).

I give honor to Ohoni for making this very strong post. Everyone is entitle to their opinion but many players who disagree with Ohoni fail to understand: similar thing is happening to wvw game mode include players where Wvw is being Forced treated by PvP mode: obviously is very too late for that. Yes! that is correct! Did you forget about that? so what do you do after? you get angry at a Pve player who see the same treatment of Pve game mode being Forced treatment by the same enemy game mode: Pvp?

Do you see what is happening? The same enemy game mode is doing the same thing to another game mode that do not want to be treated the same as you. This same enemy game mode is the reason why wvw game mode is dead this way. Do you feel better now? Do you not have any conscience for being treated bad? Instead of protecting this vulnerable game mode: pve, you make fun of them and chase them away to your same enemy.

Respect is all this vulnerable game mode is asking for before it is too late: like you: wvw. So why not all of us players stand by pve side and make this enemy game mode know, “enough is enough”!

Suggestion: stop playing pvp until pvp threats are remove
Suggestion: remove pvp

The amount amount of nonsense from op is too kitten high! Anet has spoonfed pvers and this is the result. When 99% of new items introduced to the game aside from the gem shop is through some mindless pve experience nobody bats an eye, now add a handful of SKILL required rewards pvers loose their minds!

Until I get mawdrey and fractal gear for playing PVP, then I don’t have any desire to talk about balancing the reward system between the two modes.

The game caters to PVE. The PVP rewards are just occasionally shiner. And for good reason, because the pvpers put up with what the pvers will not.

OP,
I don’t agree with you. I like my PvP exclusive items being PvP exclusive and do not want random PvErs getting them for doing PvE.

Lats time I checked the same holds true for most PvE players as you can see here :

• http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/24e38y/how_about_a_fractal_pvp_track/
• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Sugg-fractal-reward-track-sPvP
• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Fractal-track
• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Fractal-Reward-Track/first
• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/SPVP-FRACTALS-PATH

And also for WvWers for the little they have left :

• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Do-something-about-OS-farmers

TLDR, the overwhelming majority like exlusive rewards. If you cant understand it I suggest you read those :

• http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bragging+rights
• http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/prestige

You are welcome

the reward system is fine as it is.

Then, again (againception), I’ll follow your line so you don’t tell me “it’s not on topic” anymore. Let’s see:

" I simply do not enjoy competitive multiplayer activities, I enjoy only cooperative multiplayer, in which none of the opponents are humans. Arena Net seems unwilling to accept that I exist."

I can show you a different point of view. sPvP is a different type of activity that features playing with players versus another players, as well as in PvE you play with players versus AI.

“There were no rewards that PvP players could get that couldn’t be gained through PvE”

This, what you said, a counter-argument ON TOPIC, there were rewards in PvE that couldn’t be gained through PvP. Repeat, this is ON TOPIC as a counter argument to this very phrase you wrote.

“They’ve also been adding more and more rewards that can only be earned through PvP, like the Balthazar backpiece, the PvP armor set, and now adorable llamas.”

Again, this is ON TOPIC, as it’s a counter argument of what you have writen. It has been said already, PvE has and had Fractal Weapons, Mawdry, SW armor, etc…

“so PvP is often the only option for picking up that spare, whether we enjoy it or not.”

Nobody is forcing you to do sPvP dailies. You have the PvE dailies. If you don’t like them, then don’t do them, nobody forces you to do sPvP. As a note, if you want those 10 AP from daily, then you need to ACHIEVE them, let’s not be that casual.

" and what seems to be a continuous effort to convince players to PvP only serves to make us more and more frustrated with the game."

I don’t see what is wrong about getting players an incentive to play sPvP. Again, take sPvP as another activity you can do in Guild Wars 2 . As well as you have Dungs, Open World, et cetera…, you have sPvP as an alternate different activity.

“whether they enjoy PvP or not, and if they do not, RESPECT that choice, and allow them to go back to the elements they enjoy, without them missing out on cool rewards that they might want.”

Then, it’s respected. If you want to have a reward you have to earn it doing the activity that is sPvP. If you want Fractal Weapons (although the drop is baddly designed), you have to do lots of FotM. If you want the SW armor, you have to do a lot of events on that map. It takes an effort to earn something .

“Bring is back to the previous standards where you could ignore most of the available options if they didn’t suit what you wanted to do.”

Maybe ANet didn’t want it to be just a little walk! Maybe you should earn it .

“You gain nothing by forcing players to spend their precious time doing content that they do not enjoy.”

If you don’t enjoy the content, then you will have to miss the rewards. I, myself, “like” dungeons at some extent, but I hate with all my heart Fractals. Why do I have to miss the Fractal rewards!? Because it’s another activity with its own rewards .

Now, to finish a last quote (sorry for all the "" spam, but I don’t know how to quote at all lol), I’m making something clear:

“Now, some PvPers will argue that there are rewards that can only be earned through PvE, and they’re upset about that.”

Okay. That’s fair, there is that complain. Let me ask, what would be the counter argument to your “it’s unfair that sPvP has exclusive rewards” ? The main counter argument is that, as well, PvE has and always had better and exclusive rewards than sPvP.

When most people say that PvE has exclusive rewards too, they are not starting another topic, it’s totally ON TOPIC. Players are stating that as a counter argument. Other thing is you don’t like that argument. So… I don’t want that all my efforts put to earn a reward are all in vain, as it can be gained somewhere else.

Then, again, let’s not think of this as PvE vs PvP. Ultimately, these are two different activities. Inside PvE, I don’t see anyone complaining why they can’t earn Fractal Weapons through Triple Wurm! Different activities, with different rewards that show the effort a player has put on it, in order to earn them.

P.S.: Why do I bother, you are telling me I’m Off Topic again, and to everyone. You don’t like counter arguments to your opinion, I guess. Have a good day, peace.

Arcadio.6875:

The vast majority of the game caters to you and you are worried about a PvP exclusive set of armor, backpiece, and mini.

+1

PvE get’s new content all the time, when’s the last time PvP got sth. truly new? Ye, maybe a new kittenty map every year – awesome!

But what do I care, give the PvE-Players whatever armor-skin they want, really doesn’t matter to me. It’s just funny that the OP thinks PvP somehow is treated better than PvE, since PvP has pretty much been ignored by ANet since release and even the absolute necessities like private servers, matchmaking and ladders took a ridiculously long time to be implemented and are sub-par at best when compared to other competetive games.

But yes, cry about some skins and stuff no1 really cares about… -.-°

BURN HIM AT THE STAKE BURN

I can show you a different point of view. sPvP is a different type of activity that features playing with players versus another players, as well as in PvE you play with players versus AI.

I’m well aware of what sPvP is, the part that I don’t like about it is the “verses other players” part. If you could play sPvP purely against AI without any opposing players, it would be a bit dull, but at least better than the existing option for players that do not enjoy competitive multiplay.

Again, this is ON TOPIC, as it’s a counter argument of what you have writen. It has been said already, PvE has and had Fractal Weapons, Mawdry, SW armor, etc…

Yes, but nobody is disputing that there are currently rewards that can only be earned through PvE, and nobody is defending that this should remain the case. Whether existing PvE rewards should be made available though PvP is a valid, but perfectly separate debate, two wrongs do not make a right. It is not a “counter argument” to what I’m talking about, it is a parallel argument.

I don’t see what is wrong about getting players an incentive to play sPvP. Again, take sPvP as another activity you can do in Guild Wars 2 . As well as you have Dungs, Open World, et cetera…, you have sPvP as an alternate different activity.

There should be incentives to sPvP, but only for people who WANT to sPvP. That is so say, sPvP should always be an available activity that players should find competitively rewarding to other ones, but not rewarding in any specific way. If player A loves PvE and hates PvP, and player B loves PvP and hates PvE, and player C likes both, then A should be able to log in and just PvE, and B should be able to log in and just PvP, and C should be able to log in and do whichever he likes, and none of them should get a reward advantage over the other. In the current model, player C is advantaged over both other players, because he can get all the rewards just for playing how he likes to play, while A and B are both currently forced to either do things that they do not enjoy, or miss out on rewards they’d like to have.

If you don’t enjoy the content, then you will have to miss the rewards. I, myself, “like” dungeons at some extent, but I hate with all my heart Fractals. Why do I have to miss the Fractal rewards!? Because it’s another activity with its own rewards .

No, you miss the rewards because ANet decided you should miss the rewards. And that was wrong of them and they should fix it, but again, that is another topic entirely.

So… I don’t want that all my efforts put to earn a reward are all in vain, as it can be gained somewhere else.

Effort you put into a reward is not in vain, you have that reward. Now, if they made it so that it would take weeks of concerted effort to earn something through PvP, but it only took an hour or so to earn it through PvE, then I could see how that would upset people, and I’m not suggesting they should do that. But they can put in PvE methods that would involve an equivalent amount of effort, just along a different track.

I mean, anything in a PvP reward track, for example, is just effortless grind. You can essentially AFK if you like and still eventually get them (not that I would ever suggest doing so, just that it’s possible). So what would be the harm in creating similar PvE reward tracks that would unlock those same rewards just by grinding out content in PvE?

PvE get’s new content all the time, when’s the last time PvP got sth. truly new? Ye, maybe a new kittenty map every year – awesome!

Not to argue that they shouldn’t create new PvP content, but keep in mind, in PvP, your opposing players ARE the content. They make it so that each game is a very different experience. In PvE, there is less of that, so they do need to keep adding more content to keep things interesting. Maybe adding some more PvP content is warranted, but it would be unjustifiable to have any sort of parity between the two.

Neko.9021:

PvP needs more unique stuff if anything. The OP’s argument is nonsense.

This x1000000000000000000000000000000000000

Well, as my last post here, I’ll say what everyone thinks here ( I guess, obviously).

Exclusive rewards are ways for people to show off what they have accomplished in an activity. If it’s everywhere in the game, it losses its exclusivity, therefore you are not acknowledged by whatever activity you do really well.

As you said, both sPvP and PvE are inherently different, completely agree. That’s the main reason they shouldn’t share all rewards. Because both are so different of a game mode, you shouldn’t be rewarded for something that is completely different to other thing with the same reward.

That line of thinking is flawed in my opinion. It’s not the same to kill 100 mobs (as an example) than to win X matches, complete X Reward Track.

As someone posted earlier, bragging rights and prestige is what this exclusive reward tracks gives us the players, specially minillamas (and Glorious Hero Armor if ANet eventually fixes the Ladder).

OP

You want PvP exclusive rewards available in PvE, correct?
Why?
Should PvPers get PvE exclusive rewards?
Should they get a gift of exploration for completing all the region tracks?
Should they get the Dungeon Master title for completing all the dungeon tracks?
Or Jumping Puzzle titles and rewards for completing certain reward tracks?

No.

Those rewards are PvP specific, because its an incentive for more people to come do PvP. If you don’t like it, and don’t want to do it, than there is no reason you should expect to recieve the rewards for it.
It’s like expecting to recieve a college degree, but you don’t like school and don’t want to go to college.

OP here is a nice suggestion.
1. Invest in stock market
2. Get rich.
3. Buy Arenanet
4. Ask them to remove PvP
5. ???
6. A 250,000 increase in profit due to reduce expenses related to all PvP activities such as developers, grouch and all the PvP tournaments.
7. You get all the rewards you want.

I think exclusive rewards are necessary and good for the game.

The main argument put forth by OP is that he should be able to get all rewards in the game by playing the way he likes to play, without needing to do anything he doesn’t enjoy doing. In this case, the thing that he enjoys is PvE and nothing else.

What if we take the argument a step further and imagine the play-style that OP preferred wasn’t PvE or PvP, but instead simply hanging around Lion’s Arch, talking in map chat, buying gems and working the Trading Post (which is something some players enjoy doing). Ohoni, are you saying that ALL REWARDS in the game should be attainable through this play style? Essentially a pay-to-win model? It’s a valid play-style…

Ohoni.6057:

I can show you a different point of view. sPvP is a different type of activity that features playing with players versus another players, as well as in PvE you play with players versus AI.

I’m well aware of what sPvP is, the part that I don’t like about it is the “verses other players” part. If you could play sPvP purely against AI without any opposing players, it would be a bit dull, but at least better than the existing option for players that do not enjoy competitive multiplay.

You can’t play sPvP against AI without any players. With no players, there is no P in “sPvP”. There is a mode for that, and it’s called PvE. You can even do hotjoins (Some people are clueless and you can see them as AI), and if you don’t even want to put effort, there are servers dedicated to doing pvp dailies.

This game needs more unique activity-driven rewards, not less. There should be no other way to get a Tequatl’s Horde except by killing Tequatl. There should be no other way to get fractal weapons except completing fractals. And there should be no other way to getting Glorious armor except to PvP.

90% of the cosmetic stuff that comes out in this game just gets dumped on the gem store. PvP players already have so little to work for, and you want that removed.

Allowing people to obtain near every armor skin doing mind numbing content like world events and dungeons is precisely why this game is where it is competitively. Because PvE so poorly encourages actually trying, you don’t get a healthy dose of new players into PvP and WvW to accommodate this game’s egregious turnover rate.

OP,

You must feel real bad knowing that you will NEVER be able to get any WvW title except Ultimate Dominator.

I’d like to have huge pectoral muscles, a refrigerator with a padlock on it and a meeellion dollars but I don’t cry about not having it.

PS: I’d also like to fly jets.

Don’t worry guys, all your arguments clearly have nothing to do with this topic, so you can just ignore this thread and let it die.

The sense of entitlement with the OP is strong.

Let’s break this one down:

You want PvP exclusive rewards available in PvE, correct?
Why?
1. Should PvPers get PvE exclusive rewards?
2. Should they get a gift of exploration for completing all the region tracks?
3. Should they get the Dungeon Master title for completing all the dungeon tracks?
4. Or Jumping Puzzle titles and rewards for completing certain reward tracks?

1. Sure, why not?

2. No, but since the only thing Gift of Exploration is good for is legendary crafting, they don’t need it. It’s not really a “reward” itself, it’s just a component of a reward. They SHOULD have a method of acquiring Legendary through PvP that does not involve winning big tournaments or buying it with gold though.

3. No, I don’t see why they would, and I’ve never asked for access to PvP titles.

4. Are there jumping puzzle titles? I wasn’t aware. In any case, see #3, and as for JP rewards, they already get those in Reward tracks, JP rewards are pretty generic and it;s quicker to gain a Reward Track node than to complete most advanced JPs.

What if we take the argument a step further and imagine the play-style that OP preferred wasn’t PvE or PvP, but instead simply hanging around Lion’s Arch, talking in map chat, buying gems and working the Trading Post (which is something some players enjoy doing).

That’s why we wouldn’t do such a thing, it’s called a “straw man” argument, and never helps in any discussion. Nobody has suggested providing all rewards for just standing around, just that you should be able to earn them using equivalent amounts of earnest time and effort spent doing a variety of activities, rather than restricting them to only one activity type.

If you have a problem with that, as many seem to, then feel free to express it, but it does not benefit anyone to argue against something that nobody is in favor of.

You can’t play sPvP against AI without any players. With no players, there is no P in “sPvP”. There is a mode for that, and it’s called PvE.

Which is kind of my point. The most fundamental aspect of sPvP is the aspect that I dislike most about it, so there’s really nothing they or you could do to convince me to enjoy my time in that play mode. What I’m asking is that they accept and respect my opinion in this, and not try to bribe me into playing it anyways with unique rewards.

Allowing people to obtain near every armor skin doing mind numbing content like world events and dungeons is precisely why this game is where it is competitively. Because PvE so poorly encourages actually trying, you don’t get a healthy dose of new players into PvP and WvW to accommodate this game’s egregious turnover rate.

And that’s ok. So long as the players are enjoying what they are doing, ANet have done their job. This game doesn’t have to be some competitive esport monstrosity, there are other games that do that just fine, and as you note, this game is far better at doing other things.

Ohoni.6057:

opinion in this, and not try to bribe me into playing it anyways with unique rewards.

They are not trying to bribe you into doing the activity. You are not being considered in the equation at all. It’s designed as a reward for the people doing said activity. They don’t care if you do that activity or not why should they?