Guild Wars 2

Dude, you really didn’t need to necro your post.

No one plays Diamond Skin.

There’s really no point in mucking up all this conversation all over again.

Diamond Skin was a badly designed trait. We get it. However, it’s a trait in a terrible spot on the talent tree and it’s on a profession that’s in a terrible spot in sPvP, so it doesn’t matter.

They could delete this talent from the game and it wouldn’t make an ounce of difference.

Dahkeus.8243:

Dude, you really didn’t need to necro your post.

No one plays Diamond Skin.

There’s really no point in mucking up all this conversation all over again.

Diamond Skin was a badly designed trait. We get it. However, it’s a trait in a terrible spot on the talent tree and it’s on a profession that’s in a terrible spot in sPvP, so it doesn’t matter.

They could delete this talent from the game and it wouldn’t make an ounce of difference.

Right now, but as ele gets buffed this trait could easily become a major problem. And if you haven’t played as a necro or engi vs a diamond skin ele then you wouldn’t understand just how much it makes you want to quit the game.

It’s going to be an issue when the feature patch is released…guaranteed.

Diamond Skin – one of the worst recently introduced inventions from A-Net besides the immobilize-stack. They say they listen to the community, but I never really saw anyone suggesting such things . . . no excuses, just poor development.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Dahkeus.8243:

Dude, you really didn’t need to necro your post.

No one plays Diamond Skin.

There’s really no point in mucking up all this conversation all over again.

Diamond Skin was a badly designed trait. We get it. However, it’s a trait in a terrible spot on the talent tree and it’s on a profession that’s in a terrible spot in sPvP, so it doesn’t matter.

They could delete this talent from the game and it wouldn’t make an ounce of difference.

Right now, but as ele gets buffed this trait could easily become a major problem. And if you haven’t played as a necro or engi vs a diamond skin ele then you wouldn’t understand just how much it makes you want to quit the game.

So…you’re saying it’s a good idea to bump a 3+ month old thread because you think that this trait that’s 30 points into the Earth tree will be overpowered after the ele gets some as of yet unspecified buffs from a balance patch that we know almost nothing about?

These forums are filled with threads beating dead horses. We really don’t need another dragged out of the graveyard right now.

Dahkeus.8243:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Dahkeus.8243:

Dude, you really didn’t need to necro your post.

No one plays Diamond Skin.

There’s really no point in mucking up all this conversation all over again.

Diamond Skin was a badly designed trait. We get it. However, it’s a trait in a terrible spot on the talent tree and it’s on a profession that’s in a terrible spot in sPvP, so it doesn’t matter.

They could delete this talent from the game and it wouldn’t make an ounce of difference.

Right now, but as ele gets buffed this trait could easily become a major problem. And if you haven’t played as a necro or engi vs a diamond skin ele then you wouldn’t understand just how much it makes you want to quit the game.

So…you’re saying it’s a good idea to bump a 3+ month old thread because you think that this trait that’s 30 points into the Earth tree will be overpowered after the ele gets some as of yet unspecified buffs from a balance patch that we know almost nothing about?

These forums are filled with threads beating dead horses. We really don’t need another dragged out of the graveyard right now.

Tyler has already stated that eles are “crazy” strong against the current meta on their internal servers. I’ll give you a guess as to what contributes to it. Cleansing wave and?

Dahkeus.8243:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Dahkeus.8243:

Dude, you really didn’t need to necro your post.

No one plays Diamond Skin.

There’s really no point in mucking up all this conversation all over again.

Diamond Skin was a badly designed trait. We get it. However, it’s a trait in a terrible spot on the talent tree and it’s on a profession that’s in a terrible spot in sPvP, so it doesn’t matter.

They could delete this talent from the game and it wouldn’t make an ounce of difference.

Right now, but as ele gets buffed this trait could easily become a major problem. And if you haven’t played as a necro or engi vs a diamond skin ele then you wouldn’t understand just how much it makes you want to quit the game.

So…you’re saying it’s a good idea to bump a 3+ month old thread because you think that this trait that’s 30 points into the Earth tree will be overpowered after the ele gets some as of yet unspecified buffs from a balance patch that we know almost nothing about?

These forums are filled with threads beating dead horses. We really don’t need another dragged out of the graveyard right now.

It’s actually one of the most important things that have to change in this game: hardcounters. It’s not fun to play against and it doesn’t promote skillfull play. It doesn’t matter if it is overpowered or not.
So I don’t get why you bring up a sentence like “we really don’t need another thread dragged out of the graveyard”.

Poor balance is one of the top reasons why this game died pvp-wise. Why ignore it?

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Dahkeus.8243:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Dahkeus.8243:

Dude, you really didn’t need to necro your post.

No one plays Diamond Skin.

There’s really no point in mucking up all this conversation all over again.

Diamond Skin was a badly designed trait. We get it. However, it’s a trait in a terrible spot on the talent tree and it’s on a profession that’s in a terrible spot in sPvP, so it doesn’t matter.

They could delete this talent from the game and it wouldn’t make an ounce of difference.

Right now, but as ele gets buffed this trait could easily become a major problem. And if you haven’t played as a necro or engi vs a diamond skin ele then you wouldn’t understand just how much it makes you want to quit the game.

So…you’re saying it’s a good idea to bump a 3+ month old thread because you think that this trait that’s 30 points into the Earth tree will be overpowered after the ele gets some as of yet unspecified buffs from a balance patch that we know almost nothing about?

These forums are filled with threads beating dead horses. We really don’t need another dragged out of the graveyard right now.

It’s actually one of the most important things that have to change in this game: hardcounters. It’s not fun to play against and it doesn’t promote skillfull play. It doesn’t matter if it is overpowered or not.
So I don’t get why you bring up a sentence like “we really don’t need another thread dragged out of the graveyard”.

Poor balance is one of the top reasons why this game died pvp-wise. Why ignore it?

Yup. Good post as usual Empa

Hopefully, one day, we can QQ enough so that they change the game to be more skill based

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Dahkeus.8243:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Dahkeus.8243:

Dude, you really didn’t need to necro your post.

No one plays Diamond Skin.

There’s really no point in mucking up all this conversation all over again.

Diamond Skin was a badly designed trait. We get it. However, it’s a trait in a terrible spot on the talent tree and it’s on a profession that’s in a terrible spot in sPvP, so it doesn’t matter.

They could delete this talent from the game and it wouldn’t make an ounce of difference.

Right now, but as ele gets buffed this trait could easily become a major problem. And if you haven’t played as a necro or engi vs a diamond skin ele then you wouldn’t understand just how much it makes you want to quit the game.

So…you’re saying it’s a good idea to bump a 3+ month old thread because you think that this trait that’s 30 points into the Earth tree will be overpowered after the ele gets some as of yet unspecified buffs from a balance patch that we know almost nothing about?

These forums are filled with threads beating dead horses. We really don’t need another dragged out of the graveyard right now.

It’s actually one of the most important things that have to change in this game: hardcounters. It’s not fun to play against and it doesn’t promote skillfull play. It doesn’t matter if it is overpowered or not.
So I don’t get why you bring up a sentence like “we really don’t need another thread dragged out of the graveyard”.

Poor balance is one of the top reasons why this game died pvp-wise. Why ignore it?

Because no one uses Diamond Skin. If you want to argue balance, then argue the skills that are breaking balance. Otherwise, we might as well start up threads about why we don’t like the design of something like Back Fighting.

Besides, the point about Diamond Skin being a bad design has been made…

over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

The point about Diamond Skin was made. Diamond Skin is not causing any problems in the current meta. There’s no reason to keep making the same complaints that were all made months ago.

You do realise when people talk about balance they generally mean the meta and its cheesy easy to play specs. Not what is better than what. It is the amount of cheap BS in the game which people QQ about when they talk about balance. Anet still haven’t figured out what the term “balance” means in most of the posts on this forums. Sounds like you haven’t either.

Well tried Diamond Skin out myself now (usually run zerker)
And I consider it as useless, I held out against a condition necro very well , couldnt take him down though cause dealt almost no dmg (okay yeah I would have killed him after 3 min or something like that) it’s just boring.
Well besides 30 in Earth I took some defensive stats on runes and amulett.
In fact I specced full in armor and healing power. (thats why I did no dmg at all)

What happened? As I was out of Dodges a Mesmer came dealt 5 3k-hits within 2 sec
=> dead.
If thats all sustain a FULL-Toughness build has to offer, diamond skin is totally useless.

With Zerker i manage at least to win most of my fights.

Duran.3196:

Well tried Diamond Skin out myself now (usually run zerker)
And I consider it as useless, I held out against a condition necro very well , couldnt take him down though cause dealt almost no dmg (okay yeah I would have killed him after 3 min or something like that) it’s just boring.
Well besides 30 in Earth I took some defensive stats on runes and amulett.
In fact I specced full in armor and healing power. (thats why I did no dmg at all)

What happened? As I was out of Dodges a Mesmer came dealt 5 3k-hits within 2 sec
=> dead.
If thats all sustain a FULL-Toughness build has to offer, diamond skin is totally useless.

With Zerker i manage at least to win most of my fights.

Diamond skin might as well read “Immune to necros over 90% health”.

Seriously. You think that is OK? Good for you. Opinions are important.

Maybe necro should get a “Immune to thief over 90% health” GM trait. Or perhaps “Immune to Mesmer over 90% health” for the warrior. Sounds legit.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Diamond skin might as well read “Immune to necros over 90% health”.

Seriously. You think that is OK? Good for you. Opinions are important.

Maybe necro should get a “Immune to thief over 90% health” GM trait. Or perhaps “Immune to Mesmer over 90% health” for the warrior. Sounds legit.

You should actually read his post…
Unless you just want to rage, well then go right ahead.

Give up Henry, it doesn’t matter what you bring up as an argument. Too many ppl on this forum think too one-sided. Mostly because they only look from a one-class-perspective or because they choose to ignore bad skill-design.

“It doesn’t affect the meta” or “I played it and I failed, so it must be underpowered and useless”. If I read such things I have to facepalm myself for stupidity. I hope you realize in 2 months when staff ele gets buffed, that this trait will change to a real threat. Besides that it is just a horrible hardcounter (if it’s played or not doesn’t matter), but it seems like you are not able to think further and in bigger patterns.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Give up Henry, it doesn’t matter what you bring up as an argument. Too many ppl on this forum think too one-sided. Mostly because they only look from a one-class-perspective or because they choose to ignore bad skill-design.

“It doesn’t affect the meta” or “I played it and I failed, so it must be underpowered and useless”. If I read such things I have to facepalm myself for stupidity. I hope you realize in 2 months when staff ele gets buffed, that this trait will change to a real threat. Besides that it is just a horrible hardcounter (if it’s played or not doesn’t matter), but it seems like you are not able to think further and in bigger patterns.

I agree. Well said empa.

Staff ele will be 0/0/10/30/30, maybe 0/10/0/30/30 at a stretch. It won’t need more condi removal.

You guys are smoking something funny if you think 0/0/30/30/10 will be made viable by cleansing water (of all things!).

This trait will remain invisible to eles indefinitely. Save you efforts for stuff that actually shuts players out of matches consistently (not some bizarre niche counter for glass condi necro – a crappy build anyway).

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Give up Henry, it doesn’t matter what you bring up as an argument. Too many ppl on this forum think too one-sided. Mostly because they only look from a one-class-perspective or because they choose to ignore bad skill-design.

“It doesn’t affect the meta” or “I played it and I failed, so it must be underpowered and useless”. If I read such things I have to facepalm myself for stupidity. I hope you realize in 2 months when staff ele gets buffed, that this trait will change to a real threat. Besides that it is just a horrible hardcounter (if it’s played or not doesn’t matter), but it seems like you are not able to think further and in bigger patterns.

Well…it doesn’t affect the meta and it does fail right now.

As for later on when eles get buffed:
1) It depends on what buffs they get. Not all buffs will suddenly make 30 in the earth tree viable.
2) We have no idea whether they will nerf Diamond Skin at the same time, but the point has already been argued to death that it’s a badly designed trait. If ANet doesn’t get that by now, then dragging this argument out all over again now and beating on the same tired arguments won’t change anything.

When they start talking about what ele buffs are coming and whether diamond skin will change, there will be something worth talking about here. In the meantime, this is just serving as a springboard for people to rage against tired, unconstructive arguments.

Dahkeus.8243:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Give up Henry, it doesn’t matter what you bring up as an argument. Too many ppl on this forum think too one-sided. Mostly because they only look from a one-class-perspective or because they choose to ignore bad skill-design.

“It doesn’t affect the meta” or “I played it and I failed, so it must be underpowered and useless”. If I read such things I have to facepalm myself for stupidity. I hope you realize in 2 months when staff ele gets buffed, that this trait will change to a real threat. Besides that it is just a horrible hardcounter (if it’s played or not doesn’t matter), but it seems like you are not able to think further and in bigger patterns.

Well…it doesn’t affect the meta and it does fail right now.

As for later on when eles get buffed:
1) It depends on what buffs they get. Not all buffs will suddenly make 30 in the earth tree viable.
2) We have no idea whether they will nerf Diamond Skin at the same time, but the point has already been argued to death that it’s a badly designed trait. If ANet doesn’t get that by now, then dragging this argument out all over again now and beating on the same tired arguments won’t change anything.

When they start talking about what ele buffs are coming and whether diamond skin will change, there will be something worth talking about here. In the meantime, this is just serving as a springboard for people to rage against tired, unconstructive arguments.

lol @ diamond skin being changed dude. Anet don’t reverse their changes even when feedback is almost 100% negative. Look at things like Healing signet, AR, Diamond skin or not giving us new game modes.

Seriously. They have shown that they are stubborn developers who just think they know best DESPITE constantly kittening up. Like with refusing to do new game modes. They didn’t listen. As usual, the community was right and they were wrong. But it takes them 3 years to admit this. SKyhammer. community almost to a man hates this map. PvP hate this map. In game it is a joke. Developers don’t listen. They think they are right and we are wrong. People quit solo q as a result.

They have confidence in their decisions (the devs). Unfortunatly they aren’t as smart as they think they are. And we aren’t as stupid as they think we are. They don’t tell us anything because they think we are a bunch of clueless kids. They treat our views like those of 10 year olds. I would hope they would learn from their experiences and previous failings. Everyone makes mistakes in every walk of life. Learning from them and having humility is important.

Besides. If you don’t want to discuss diamond skin then why are you here. Go post in a topic you do care about. The whole forum doesn’t have to revolve around your personal views. I don’t go to the living story forum and make post after post on things saying it doesn’t matter.

Phaeton.9582:

Staff ele will be 0/0/10/30/30, maybe 0/10/0/30/30 at a stretch. It won’t need more condi removal.

You guys are smoking something funny if you think 0/0/30/30/10 will be made viable by cleansing water (of all things!).

This trait will remain invisible to eles indefinitely. Save you efforts for stuff that actually shuts players out of matches consistently (not some bizarre niche counter for glass condi necro – a crappy build anyway).

Wait what? What are you saying? That diamond skin is a good trait? If you played a necro then you would realise how this trait is just the absolute worst thing in the game. If it is rare now (because of thieves) then it will become more popular as eles get stronger. Immunities are the biggest issue with the game. So that is why our attention is focused here. I might not be good at this game anymore, but I have still played enough, and dominated enough (when I was good) to know just how lame it feels to not be able to touch even a rank 1 player using this trait. Necro weapon sets scale horribly with power. Even with carrions it will be hard to blast through this 10% threshold (especially after signet of resto buff – outside of ds#1)

Dahkeus.8243:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Give up Henry, it doesn’t matter what you bring up as an argument. Too many ppl on this forum think too one-sided. Mostly because they only look from a one-class-perspective or because they choose to ignore bad skill-design.

“It doesn’t affect the meta” or “I played it and I failed, so it must be underpowered and useless”. If I read such things I have to facepalm myself for stupidity. I hope you realize in 2 months when staff ele gets buffed, that this trait will change to a real threat. Besides that it is just a horrible hardcounter (if it’s played or not doesn’t matter), but it seems like you are not able to think further and in bigger patterns.

As for later on when eles get buffed:
1) It depends on what buffs they get. Not all buffs will suddenly make 30 in the earth tree viable.
2) We have no idea whether they will nerf Diamond Skin at the same time, but the point has already been argued to death that it’s a badly designed trait. If ANet doesn’t get that by now, then dragging this argument out all over again now and beating on the same tired arguments won’t change anything.

When they start talking about what ele buffs are coming and whether diamond skin will change, there will be something worth talking about here. In the meantime, this is just serving as a springboard for people to rage against tired, unconstructive arguments.

Well, at least I TRY to draw the attention of A-Net into things that need to change.
If I wrote unconstructive feedback, than what are your “Point out to ppl, that noone plays ele, so this trait is perfectly fine”- Answers? Constructive?

Dahkeus.8243:

Well…it doesn’t affect the meta and it does fail right now.

This sentence just describes your high level of intelligence and your ability to think into the future . . . oh wait!
Now please do the majority a favour and stop derail this thread. Thanks

you know what would be cool? inmunity to physical dmg if u are at 100% hp and it can be stacked with diamond… this a super serious suggestion , i mean its not like u can kitten it up anymore

becouse you know.. hardcounters are super fun!

Juan Ignacio.8903:

you know what would be cool? inmunity to physical dmg if u are at 100% hp and it can be stacked with diamond… this a super serious suggestion , i mean its not like u can kitten it up anymore

becouse you know.. hardcounters are super fun!

Good idea. mesmer needs a way to deal with thieves. Perhaps give them immunity to direct damage in a line? I mean that will seperate the good players from the bad ones right? Just like dhuumfire did for necro. I loved dhuumfire. I spent 1500 hours becoming good at a class only for 1 patch to make all that worthless as anyone could then play necromancer

Ofc make it grandmaster so its balanced though. You can put any unfun mechanics at grandmaster and its fine afterall

oh yeah yeah how about this everytime u use a shatter skill on mesmer u gain distortion for each clone u use, of course it has to be grandmaster so it doesnt break the game or anything!

joke a side dhuumfire is the prime example how clueless they are, 1st they added it without cd, then they put a cd on it and now who knows what they going to do ?

i really have no problem with diamond skin, but the fact that they add it its just shows lack of ummm how to say it ? professionalism? yea i think thats the word. i mean it could be like … remove 2 condis each 10 second or some crap like that… but complete inmunity? yep it sounds like u dont have any new ideas so u just throw the 1st thing that came to ur mind.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

oh yeah yeah how about this everytime u use a shatter skill on mesmer u gain distortion for each clone u use, of course it has to be grandmaster so it doesnt break the game or anything!

joke a side dhuumfire is the prime example how clueless they are, 1st they added it without cd, then they put a cd on it and now who knows what they going to do ?

i really have no problem with diamond skin, but the fact that they add it its just shows lack of ummm how to say it ? professionalism? yea i think thats the word. i mean it could be like … remove 2 condis each 10 second or some crap like that… but complete inmunity? yep it sounds like u dont have any new ideas so u just throw the 1st thing that came to ur mind.

Remove 2 conditions when you attune to earth

That could be one. How could they think diamond skin is either fun to use or, just as important, fun to fight against.

How can they think dhuumfire was fun to use? The game died for me that day. Literally they have just nerfed all the skilled aspects of necromancer (putrid mark, corrupt boon, terror, bleed bombing) just to make way for a passive burning proc.

It is simply ridiculous. Used to be necro vs necro took skill. Now it is just spam. In fact necro vs anything is just spam now. No coincidence that patch (and future ones with warrior, thief) suddenly made a ton of players “all-stars”. It is because the builds are brainless and based on spam now. Players who would never be a problem suddenly became huge issues from dhuumfire patch. It really was the beginning of the end. I don’t think they have to vision or balls to recover either. They need such widespread nerfs.

or 3 condis when u attune to earth or 4 … or all of them but complete inmunity is just … i dk. the trait itself is garbage but it doesnt make sense that u completely counter a class just by using 1 trait.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

or 3 condis when u attune to earth or 4 … or all of them but complete inmunity is just … i dk. the trait itself is garbage but it doesnt make sense that u completely counter a class just by using 1 trait.

Yeh it is a complete joke. Like you said though, the main concern is that it just shows the sort of ideas we can expect going forward. Just like skyhammer should be a red flag to those excited about new game modes. They test all this internally. They all thought skyhammer was going to be a huge success lol. I guess it was – but only for undermining any significance that remained in the rank system.

Phaeton.9582:

Staff ele will be 0/0/10/30/30, maybe 0/10/0/30/30 at a stretch. It won’t need more condi removal.

You guys are smoking something funny if you think 0/0/30/30/10 will be made viable by cleansing water (of all things!).

This trait will remain invisible to eles indefinitely. Save you efforts for stuff that actually shuts players out of matches consistently (not some bizarre niche counter for glass condi necro – a crappy build anyway).

This. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Condition Necros still stand more of a chance against a DS Ele then a non DS Ele stands to a Condition Necro. You want to talk about hard counters? Try playing any non-bunkery Ele against a Condition Necro.

Ryld.1340:

Phaeton.9582:

Staff ele will be 0/0/10/30/30, maybe 0/10/0/30/30 at a stretch. It won’t need more condi removal.

You guys are smoking something funny if you think 0/0/30/30/10 will be made viable by cleansing water (of all things!).

This trait will remain invisible to eles indefinitely. Save you efforts for stuff that actually shuts players out of matches consistently (not some bizarre niche counter for glass condi necro – a crappy build anyway).

This. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Necros still stand more of a chance against a DS Ele then a non DS Ele stands to a Necro. You want to talk about hard counters? Try playing any non-bunkery Ele against a Necro.

What an utterly ridiculous statement.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ryld.1340:

Phaeton.9582:

Staff ele will be 0/0/10/30/30, maybe 0/10/0/30/30 at a stretch. It won’t need more condi removal.

You guys are smoking something funny if you think 0/0/30/30/10 will be made viable by cleansing water (of all things!).

This trait will remain invisible to eles indefinitely. Save you efforts for stuff that actually shuts players out of matches consistently (not some bizarre niche counter for glass condi necro – a crappy build anyway).

This. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Necros still stand more of a chance against a DS Ele then a non DS Ele stands to a Necro. You want to talk about hard counters? Try playing any non-bunkery Ele against a Necro.

What an utterly ridiculous statement.

An important part I forgot to mention is Condition Bunker Necro. The main one affected by DS.

Ryld.1340:

Phaeton.9582:

Staff ele will be 0/0/10/30/30, maybe 0/10/0/30/30 at a stretch. It won’t need more condi removal.

You guys are smoking something funny if you think 0/0/30/30/10 will be made viable by cleansing water (of all things!).

This trait will remain invisible to eles indefinitely. Save you efforts for stuff that actually shuts players out of matches consistently (not some bizarre niche counter for glass condi necro – a crappy build anyway).

This. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Condition Necros still stand more of a chance against a DS Ele then a non DS Ele stands to a Condition Necro. You want to talk about hard counters? Try playing any non-bunkery Ele against a Condition Necro.

That should be changed as well. Signet of spite is another one of those abilities that is way over budget.

Ryld.1340:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ryld.1340:

Phaeton.9582:

Staff ele will be 0/0/10/30/30, maybe 0/10/0/30/30 at a stretch. It won’t need more condi removal.

You guys are smoking something funny if you think 0/0/30/30/10 will be made viable by cleansing water (of all things!).

This trait will remain invisible to eles indefinitely. Save you efforts for stuff that actually shuts players out of matches consistently (not some bizarre niche counter for glass condi necro – a crappy build anyway).

This. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Necros still stand more of a chance against a DS Ele then a non DS Ele stands to a Necro. You want to talk about hard counters? Try playing any non-bunkery Ele against a Necro.

What an utterly ridiculous statement.

An important part I forgot to mention is Condition Bunker Necro. The main one affected by DS.

Well I have lost to ele’s 1 on 1 quite a few times on my necro. Admittedly in team fights I just turn up and melt them. But still. Ridiculous comment. Utterly ridiculous. You lost all credibility. Better to resign from this thread now for you mate

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ryld.1340:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ryld.1340:

Phaeton.9582:

Staff ele will be 0/0/10/30/30, maybe 0/10/0/30/30 at a stretch. It won’t need more condi removal.

You guys are smoking something funny if you think 0/0/30/30/10 will be made viable by cleansing water (of all things!).

This trait will remain invisible to eles indefinitely. Save you efforts for stuff that actually shuts players out of matches consistently (not some bizarre niche counter for glass condi necro – a crappy build anyway).

This. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Necros still stand more of a chance against a DS Ele then a non DS Ele stands to a Necro. You want to talk about hard counters? Try playing any non-bunkery Ele against a Necro.

What an utterly ridiculous statement.

An important part I forgot to mention is Condition Bunker Necro. The main one affected by DS.

Well I have lost to ele’s 1 on 1 quite a few times on my necro. Admittedly in team fights I just turn up and melt them. But still. Ridiculous comment. Utterly ridiculous. You lost all credibility. Better to resign from this thread now for you mate

And how many times do you beat Ele’s? Spite and Convert Boon are death sentences to any Ele, especially those who run Rock Solid just to try and use Ether Renewal to counter the condition spam that’s thrown out these days. How do you think this is ridiculous? Ele’s don’t have complete condition wipes (4-5 at most on a long CD). If you Convert Conditions while I use Ether Renewal, I have to Cleansing Fire to survive. If I don’t run Cleansing Fire, then I just have to eat them all. Even after that, you can still Spite to kill me. It’s not even funny how easy it is.

So again, yes. Condition Necros will destroy Elementalists.

Take the vit out of zerker gems.
nerf thief clense.
give this trait to all glass cannon builds.
????
PROFIT!

Actually I’m just curious to see what would happen, I don’t actually condone this.

Ryld.1340:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ryld.1340:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ryld.1340:

Phaeton.9582:

Staff ele will be 0/0/10/30/30, maybe 0/10/0/30/30 at a stretch. It won’t need more condi removal.

You guys are smoking something funny if you think 0/0/30/30/10 will be made viable by cleansing water (of all things!).

This trait will remain invisible to eles indefinitely. Save you efforts for stuff that actually shuts players out of matches consistently (not some bizarre niche counter for glass condi necro – a crappy build anyway).

This. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Necros still stand more of a chance against a DS Ele then a non DS Ele stands to a Necro. You want to talk about hard counters? Try playing any non-bunkery Ele against a Necro.

What an utterly ridiculous statement.

An important part I forgot to mention is Condition Bunker Necro. The main one affected by DS.

Well I have lost to ele’s 1 on 1 quite a few times on my necro. Admittedly in team fights I just turn up and melt them. But still. Ridiculous comment. Utterly ridiculous. You lost all credibility. Better to resign from this thread now for you mate

And how many times do you beat Ele’s? Spite and Convert Boon are death sentences to any Ele, especially those who run Rock Solid just to try and use Ether Renewal to counter the condition spam that’s thrown out these days. How do you think this is ridiculous? Ele’s don’t have complete condition wipes (4-5 at most on a long CD). If you Convert Conditions while I use Ether Renewal, I have to Cleansing Fire to survive. If I don’t run Cleansing Fire, then I just have to eat them all. Even after that, you can still Spite to kill me. It’s not even funny how easy it is.

So again, yes. Condition Necros will destroy Elementalists.

Your point was that a necro has a better chance vs a DS ele than an ele does vs a condi necro. That is utterly ridiculous seen as the necro cannot even touch the elementalist. If you use golem or wurm the ele will just kill that first.

A S/F glass ele who plays at a high level is actually not an easy spec for a necro to beat 1 on 1. They can be invuln, blocking and blinding you so much that you just get burst down. An engi without AR is an easier spec for a necro to beat 1 on 1.

Maybe I am just worst vs eles. But either way, the best necro in the world will lose to almost any ele running DS. An ele who is better than a necro will usually beat him 1 on 1. Not many good eles left because they all quit/rerolled. But still. S/f ele is hard for necro. IMO at least

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Give up Henry, it doesn’t matter what you bring up as an argument. Too many ppl on this forum think too one-sided. Mostly because they only look from a one-class-perspective or because they choose to ignore bad skill-design.

“It doesn’t affect the meta” or “I played it and I failed, so it must be underpowered and useless”. If I read such things I have to facepalm myself for stupidity. I hope you realize in 2 months when staff ele gets buffed, that this trait will change to a real threat. Besides that it is just a horrible hardcounter (if it’s played or not doesn’t matter), but it seems like you are not able to think further and in bigger patterns.

Well I am able to think in bigger patterns.
But you are creating problems where are none.
Diamond Skin is rarely used and that certainly has its reasons.

The Elementalist as it is now usually sees no daylight against a necro (if both have equal skill)
With Death Shroud Necros do have a health pool of 30k+, which is even in full zerker really hard for anyone (besides warriors maybe) to melt before their conditions melt you.
So now there is one tiny little GM TRAIT on ONE class, that ISNT even used frequently that ONLY counters Conditions Only builds hard.

And if you mean me with “I tried and failed”, i managed well against a condition only necro that is sure but on anything else its useless, so unless u have an enemy team consisting only of condition necros that trait is worthless.
And if that’s often the case maybe you necros should think about it, maybe then something with your class is terribly wrong.

duran i dont think that people think that the trait is op and breaks the game or anything.

they are just saying that its just a single trait that breaks condi builds, just one single trait. Its not a smart dodge(lol), a transfer condtion skill, a cleanse skill or something similar its just a single trait that somemore that is passive it negates a half of the builds (if the other half is power lol).

obviously rigth now is a pos trait but well according to what people are saying eles are getting buffed who knows if a new build will rise and has the DS as part of it, people will start saying “oh that trait is op” becouse you know what, its a hardcounter and they are p stupid.

Well I never said it was well-designed @juan.

But on the other hand is it okay that ppl can spec completely defensive while still having high offensive power by taking condition dmg?

And be honest burning 1500 from an ele shouldnt be that hard for anyone.

But I saw the problems with this trait coming cause that trait isnt well-designed.
Cause there is such a small percentage between being absolutely underpowered and totally OP. As for now the 10% are even underpowered.
And it does not break condition builds in general, only pure condition builds.

So ppl say well Elementalist can heal himself, yes he can but in order for that to be effective he still needs healing power / skill in water for water cd reduction.
So u have to skill 30 earth and 10 or 20 water.
In other words you lose a lot of offensive power, then you are able to survive but you cant finish of your enemy as well.

@Lordrosicky
A full glass S/F ele that is skilled is a problem for me as D/D ele as well.
Met a r54 (I know rank does not equal skill) some days ago (the only one i met so far though) and this was the first ele I met that won >70% of the times we met.
And yeah that guy was strong, but the number of eles I considered strong that I met the last 5 months I can count on one hand.
And by strong i mean just as hard to beat as a mediocre Condi or Minion Necro.

So now imagine that S/F guy didnt build full glass, do you know just how big his dmg lose is if he specs into earth?

Duran.3196:

Well I never said it was well-designed @juan.

But on the other hand is it okay that ppl can spec completely defensive while still having high offensive power by taking condition dmg?

And be honest burning 1500 from an ele shouldnt be that hard for anyone.

But I saw the problems with this trait coming cause that trait isnt well-designed.
Cause there is such a small percentage between being absolutely underpowered and totally OP. As for now the 10% are even underpowered.
And it does not break condition builds in general, only pure condition builds.

So ppl say well Elementalist can heal himself, yes he can but in order for that to be effective he still needs healing power / skill in water for water cd reduction.
So u have to skill 30 earth and 10 or 20 water.
In other words you lose a lot of offensive power, then you are able to survive but you cant finish of your enemy as well.

@Lordrosicky
A full glass S/F ele that is skilled is a problem for me as D/D ele as well.
Met a r54 (I know rank does not equal skill) some days ago (the only one i met so far though) and this was the first ele I met that won >70% of the times we met.
And yeah that guy was strong, but the number of eles I considered strong that I met the last 5 months I can count on one hand.
And by strong i mean just as hard to beat as a mediocre Condi or Minion Necro.

So now imagine that S/F guy didnt build full glass, do you know just how big his dmg lose is if he specs into earth?

Necro only has pure condition builds. Hybrid doesn’t exist because necro’s condition weapons scale so poorly with power. Staff is a poor weapon set. The baddies will qq about marks but staff is one of the most balanced weapon sets in the game because the auto attack is so bad. Scepter carries the offense of a condition necro. Scepter too scales badly with power. If they want all this condition immunity then they have to buff scepter and staffs base damage by 100%. But that is more power creep just to get around all the immunities. The one good thing about a power necro (well lich too) is DS#1. A 1 spamming necro. Hardly skill based. This is the only thing which woud benefit from running a carrion/hybrid necro spec. And really, if you run carrion or go full power then you will just get farmed by thiefs and hambow warriors all game. It doesn’t get played because a thief will just destroy you even worse than they destroy eles.

Necromancer doesn’t have the tools really to play a melee glass cannon class. That leaves its ranged weapons which all scale badly with power and have no direct damage. So this trait, diamond skin, is basically “immune to necromancers”. That isn’t a good trait to have.

All I ask is for skill to be put back in the game. I am happy for necro to be the weakest class. If necro was as bad as ele right now I would make it work. SO would a handful of other necros who have been playing for a while. But I don’t want to be shut out by complete immunities which no level of skill can get around.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Duran.3196:

Well I never said it was well-designed @juan.

But on the other hand is it okay that ppl can spec completely defensive while still having high offensive power by taking condition dmg?

And be honest burning 1500 from an ele shouldnt be that hard for anyone.

But I saw the problems with this trait coming cause that trait isnt well-designed.
Cause there is such a small percentage between being absolutely underpowered and totally OP. As for now the 10% are even underpowered.
And it does not break condition builds in general, only pure condition builds.

So ppl say well Elementalist can heal himself, yes he can but in order for that to be effective he still needs healing power / skill in water for water cd reduction.
So u have to skill 30 earth and 10 or 20 water.
In other words you lose a lot of offensive power, then you are able to survive but you cant finish of your enemy as well.

@Lordrosicky
A full glass S/F ele that is skilled is a problem for me as D/D ele as well.
Met a r54 (I know rank does not equal skill) some days ago (the only one i met so far though) and this was the first ele I met that won >70% of the times we met.
And yeah that guy was strong, but the number of eles I considered strong that I met the last 5 months I can count on one hand.
And by strong i mean just as hard to beat as a mediocre Condi or Minion Necro.

So now imagine that S/F guy didnt build full glass, do you know just how big his dmg lose is if he specs into earth?

Necro only has pure condition builds. Hybrid doesn’t exist because necro’s condition weapons scale so poorly with power. Staff is a poor weapon set. The baddies will qq about marks but staff is one of the most balanced weapon sets in the game because the auto attack is so bad. Scepter carries the offense of a condition necro. Scepter too scales badly with power. If they want all this condition immunity then they have to buff scepter and staffs base damage by 100%. But that is more power creep just to get around all the immunities. The one good thing about a power necro (well lich too) is DS#1. A 1 spamming necro. Hardly skill based. This is the only thing which woud benefit from running a carrion/hybrid necro spec. And really, if you run carrion or go full power then you will just get farmed by thiefs and hambow warriors all game. It doesn’t get played because a thief will just destroy you even worse than they destroy eles.

Necromancer doesn’t have the tools really to play a melee glass cannon class. That leaves its ranged weapons which all scale badly with power and have no direct damage. So this trait, diamond skin, is basically “immune to necromancers”. That isn’t a good trait to have.

All I ask is for skill to be put back in the game. I am happy for necro to be the weakest class. If necro was as bad as ele right now I would make it work. SO would a handful of other necros who have been playing for a while. But I don’t want to be shut out by complete immunities which no level of skill can get around.

Condi necro is also currently the most irritating class to play against unless you have access to insane immunities/invuln (see berserker stance/PW). The idea of constantly laying conditions on players (without avoidable tells) until they run out of cooldowns and insta die is the most ridiculous thing in this game. It’s only been implemented to avoid stalemates, but it’s a rubbish mechanic.

I can beat a decent terror necro with any class in the game (including s/f ele). That doesn’t make their mechanics any less crappy. I mean really, really crappy.

Tldr: QQ necro spamm QQ