Guild Wars 2

Like an ele’s attunement, it’s shown at all times, which ever one they happen to be on. The same needs to apply to engineers when they’re using a kit. Their rotation isn’t as predictable as Ele’s or guardians.

Isn’t that the point of their backpacks?

khani.4786:

Isn’t that the point of their backpacks?

Quoted for truth

Chaith.8256:

khani.4786:

Isn’t that the point of their backpacks?

Quoted for truth

Last I knew the kits had different backpacks. So I second this Quote for truth.

Except toolkit and bomb kit are identical. Also they are all big blobs of brown stuff with only elixir gun and flamethrower being somewhat more distinct.
An attunement icon like eles have would be more effective and reliable since they can change the kit every 1s and in the huge mess of particle effects it’s quite hard to tell which kit is which.
This would also totally solve the hobosack issue!
It’s a nice and clean solution to many problems. I expect it to be implemented in guild wars 7 in 2050.

Backpacks are hard to see and have little distinguishing characteristics! You can tell a kit swap when they gain swiftness from the Speedy Kits trait! In between those 10 seconds, good luck squinting at the backpacks as the Engineer unloads on you!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

If they are in toolkit they will be holding a wrench if they are in grenade kit their hand will look empty if they are in flamethrower they will be holding a flamethrower if they have elixir gun they will be holding a big ugly stick. Not to mention the hobo sacks look different.

gl seeing it on tiny asura

well the problem i find and this is as a long time engineer is you literally cannot spot what kit they swaped to befor they use a skill, like literally its near impossible to spot it even if they are using flamer or EG chances are they will use a skill befor you actually spot the kit change

Engineers don’t have weapon swaps, so at this rate you might as well put a little buff on every single player stating what weapon they’re carrying: “This player is currently wielding a rifle.”

robertul.3679:

Except toolkit and bomb kit are identical.

They are not. Bomb kit has a big bomb strapped to the top of the pack, and the grenade kit has grenades dangling from it. And yeah, all that “gl seeing it before you get hit with it” stuff. I don’t think it’s a problem though, especially with all the different skins available for weapons. I don’t expect to be able to distinguish every weapon before a skill is used on a first encounter with a player, but I’m definitely going to remember what it was the second time around.

What weapon skins look like a different weapon? Rifle and harpoon gun don’t count, since those you can tell simply if the person is in the water or not. Same for staff and trident.

What kits look like other kits? Most of them, really.

If I see a Warrior switch to Hammer, I know what he may do. If I am facing an engineer who is using kits…well, I know he’s in a kit. Not really obvious which one. Oh, he’s chucking grenades! Okay, he’s in grenade kit. Wait, what’s that bomb smoke field doing? Did he switch kits on me? Must have, but I sure didn’t notice.

Kits do need to either have a buff icon or be made much more visibly distinct. Buff icon and changing up the hobosacks to show backpieces is probably the solution that makes the most people happy, but can be challenging.

It’s pretty easy to tell which pack they are in because they always use a skill as soon as they are in it.

Dirame.8521:

It’s pretty easy to tell which pack they are in because they always use a skill as soon as they are in it.

Perhaps, but with any other weapon in the game, I can start reacting to a skill before it’s cast. I see a Warrior swap to Hammer, I already know what skills can be coming and how to deal with each of them. I watch for them. With Engineer kits, until I know their entire utility bar, if I see a kit, it can be any one of 20-25 skills (the extra 5 are Healing Kit, though I recognize nobody really uses that in PvP/WvW roaming) that I’m trying to watch for. And I don’t know which set of 5 I’m watching for ever, because you can’t tell when the kit changes until they have already used a skill (and that’s no guarantee they are still in that kit). With engineer kits, you simply don’t know what you are watching for right now.

Why just engineers? Its not like they carry a huge amount of kits. Most popular builds just have 1 kit in it. Why does it need to be telegraphed more then any other class, where you just need to look at what they are holding in their hands and what skills they use?
I don’t know what weapons any other class has until he’s swapped at least once. And I don’t know his skills until he’s used them.

People are recently complaining over seeing “so many engineers” but still you cant tell the difference between the kits?

Well a nade kit throws nades. Plenty of time to dodge. From ranged this can be seen by lots of balls of death flying through the air; or maybe all the little circles on the ground that is only created by nades. Bomb kit, bombs are timed, which again you can see the engi place them and still have plenty of time to move or dodge. Tool kit he is holding a wrench, only skill you need to watch for is pull (Highly telegraphed) and still plenty of time to dodge. They are not instant spells and therefore really need no introduction.
1: Plenty of time to dodge (then you know what he has)
2: Plenty of time to side step (then you know what he has)
3: Eat the nades and then spit them back out at him for humiliation. (Then he remembers what he has)

Isn’t this a huge l2p issue like the asura animations. Good players know what kit they swap to from their rotations or the backpack or what skill they use first. It’s not game breaking in the slightest.

Terrahero.9358:

Why just engineers? Its not like they carry a huge amount of kits. Most popular builds just have 1 kit in it. Why does it need to be telegraphed more then any other class, where you just need to look at what they are holding in their hands and what skills they use?
I don’t know what weapons any other class has until he’s swapped at least once. And I don’t know his skills until he’s used them.

People are recently complaining over seeing “so many engineers” but still you cant tell the difference between the kits?

Triple-kit isn’t uncommon either.

The reason why “just engineers?” Only Engineers have multiple “weapons” that look nearly identical.

And if you don’t know what skills a Warrior has when he swaps to hammer, I really question any sort of pretense at PvP expertise you have.

Every other profession, it’s clear what weapon they currently have equipped. Engineers, it is not clear what kit they have equipped.

So unless you honestly think that Engineers would become terrible because of a cosmetic change that allows for improved readability, I’m not sure why you are so against the request.

Benjamin.8237:

Isn’t this a huge l2p issue like the asura animations. Good players know what kit they swap to from their rotations or the backpack or what skill they use first. It’s not game breaking in the slightest.

Actually it’s a pretty much established fact at this point that asura animations are a huge handicap and the rationale for Standard models in Ranked/Teamque.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

And if you don’t know what skills a Warrior has when he swaps to hammer, I really question any sort of pretense at PvP expertise you have.

Warrior is obvious. I’ve been surprised by rangers using shortbow (since it’s uncommon these days) because it looked like longbow from a distance. Some shortbow skins are the same size as their longbow counterpart. And thief trouble, since they often pop in and out of stealth and there’s just a split second to see what they’re carrying anyway.

I’m opposed to telegraphing engineer kits in a more obvious way (like the icon elementalists have) because it would be dumbing down the profession only to benefit the opposition. I can’t be sure what pet a ranger is going to switch to before they switch it, why should someone be able to highlight me from a distance and watch me flip kits for swiftness? They’d know exactly what was coming before I even got there. All elementalists have four attunements, but you won’t necessarily know what weaponset they have from a distance unless they’re the hugest of huge norn and you’ve got the hugest of huge monitors. Most professions have two weapon sets plus utilities. Engineers can potentially have four weapon sets. I get that’s a lot to think ahead about, but signets aside, you have no idea what utilities other professions are using until they use them.

At least you get some visual cues from engineers before you may have to fight them. Elixir gun has a very distinct backpack, as does flamethrower. As I previously mentioned, grenade kit has dangling grenades. Bomb kit has a big ol’ bomb at the top of it. Tool kit and bomb kit backpacks are identical (yeah, :c) so look for the wrench.

Are you having the biggest problems with asura? If so, using standard enemy models may help. Everyone will wear uniform, profession specific armor, and will use the human character model.

I think we’re talking past each other.

Yes, you can’t tell what other weapon/pet (for Rangers) someone has until they switch to it. But you can tell what their active weapon/pet is at a quick glance. This is not the case with engineer kits. At the same time, you can easily tell when anyone else swaps weapons/pets. This is not the case with Engineer kits.

Sure, icon versus much larger differences between each kit’s hobosack is a debatable point. The fact that you are actually defending obscurity is odd.

I don’t feel like I’m defending obscurity though. Engineer already has a visual cue as to what kit they’re using, both on their back and in their hand. Other professions hold their weapon in their hand, just the same way. That’s why I bring up icons like the ele’s attunements. Aside from a visual cue on the character, that’s the only other indication of a weapon set I can think of, and that poses problems. That’s the point I was trying to make; sorry if it wasn’t clear. If the problem is widespread and can’t be solved by using standard enemy models, I’m not opposed to adding more distinction between the kits. Different colors of the cloth flaps maybe, something like that. I can’t see a large portion of the people with this problem finding that to be a solution though, and I sincerely doubt the developers (or the engineers, for that matter) would appreciate an entirely new set of weapon models. I don’t mean to sound unforgiving, but the differences between the kits really are obvious to me. I’ve been playing engineer since shortly after launch though, so I’m quite used to how the kits look.

I don’t mind having a icon to tell which kit an engineer has, but most of the kits are obvious. I mean even with Elementalist Attunement Icons, people still get hit by obvious things. Elementalists have a attunement wristbands to show what attunement they have, and even on an Asurans it isn’t hard to notice. On Engineer, if they have a wrench in their hand it’s Toolkit, Bombkit backpacks have a bomb on the back, Grenade Kit, the engi will be throwing grenades and they have different visuals like chill and poison. I play this game on the worst FPS and still manage to see things. People just have to work on awareness and learn/have some knowledge about other classes. After two years many skills and animations are still the same, but nobody wants them nerfed or changed until now because of meta shifts.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Terrahero.9358:

Why just engineers? Its not like they carry a huge amount of kits. Most popular builds just have 1 kit in it. Why does it need to be telegraphed more then any other class, where you just need to look at what they are holding in their hands and what skills they use?
I don’t know what weapons any other class has until he’s swapped at least once. And I don’t know his skills until he’s used them.

People are recently complaining over seeing “so many engineers” but still you cant tell the difference between the kits?

Triple-kit isn’t uncommon either.

The reason why “just engineers?” Only Engineers have multiple “weapons” that look nearly identical.

And if you don’t know what skills a Warrior has when he swaps to hammer, I really question any sort of pretense at PvP expertise you have.

Every other profession, it’s clear what weapon they currently have equipped. Engineers, it is not clear what kit they have equipped.

So unless you honestly think that Engineers would become terrible because of a cosmetic change that allows for improved readability, I’m not sure why you are so against the request.

For engineers the kits aren’t near identical they look quite distinctly different, and that is besides the stuff they are holding in their hands. They clearly hold an elixirgun or a flamethrower or a wrench, or nothing. If you can see a dagger, you can see any of those. The only two weaponkits with nothing in their main-hand have very different backpacks.
I don’t have a problem knowing what skills a warrior has when he pulls a hammer, or identifying its a hammer. Just like I have no problem doing so for Engineers or Ele’s.

But the reason I strongly oppose this is because Engineers are already shafted harshly when it comes to customization options. The hobosacks are overwriting backslots and for more than a year the Engineer community has been asking for something to be done about this. And I don’t want pvp crying to be used as an excuse to deny Engineers in general the customization they want for their characters and should have had since the start.

Anet wont do anything to hurt their Favorite class. Just sit and watch them get buff after buff, I have.

Terrahero.9358:

But the reason I strongly oppose this is because Engineers are already shafted harshly when it comes to customization options. The hobosacks are overwriting backslots and for more than a year the Engineer community has been asking for something to be done about this. And I don’t want pvp crying to be used as an excuse to deny Engineers in general the customization they want for their characters and should have had since the start.

But wouldn’t working on the recognition capability of each kit also be the perfect time to address the hobosack issue? Both would ideally, involve changing the appearance of the kit, and surely there are ways that make it easier to recognize which kit is active while also changing where it appears on the engineer in order to allow them to show off their back items.

The only thing missing is a weapon held incase of Grenades and a weapon held incase of Bombs. And I don’t recall hearing someone oppose that idea ever, for example a bombkit could involve the Engineer holding a “torch” in his offhand which he would use to light the fuse on these bombs.

But this isn’t the first time we’ve had this discussion on here, and some people already illuminated to what people really want. And that is for Backpacks to be like a neon sign that screams what kit an engineer is equipping, as apparently even an EG or a FT isn’t distinguishing enough.
That would cement the hobosack as a permanent feature and could never allow it to be a customizable choice for the player.

Darnis.4056:

Benjamin.8237:

Isn’t this a huge l2p issue like the asura animations. Good players know what kit they swap to from their rotations or the backpack or what skill they use first. It’s not game breaking in the slightest.

Actually it’s a pretty much established fact at this point that asura animations are a huge handicap and the rationale for Standard models in Ranked/Teamque.

Yeah I don’t think it’s as big as people make out. I’ve never had a problem and I know a lot of top players who don’t have this problem either. I get that it might affect some people but the OP is asking for something really quite unnecessary.

Really? Maybe it’s cause I’ve played an engineer, but I can usually tell what kit they have on at the very moment just from whatever skill(s) they’re using at the time. I don’t really see the point of this.

Nilkemia.8507:

Really? Maybe it’s cause I’ve played an engineer, but I can usually tell what kit they have on at the very moment just from whatever skill(s) they’re using at the time. I don’t really see the point of this.

even before i started playing engi it was easy to tell. dont even need the first skill to tell, just look at what is or is not in their hands.

also, if you cant tell what is in an asura’s hands then thats on you not the game. get a better comp that can run at a higher resolution without lag, BAM, clear as day.

Engis hate the backpack kits as much as any other class does (probably more) because they hide any custom back piece that is equipped. An icon indicator would be much better.