Guild Wars 2

All this does is kill build diversity. Especially when you’re dealing with classes with design flaws (see: warriors and condition removal), the new trait was great for that, sure! But now warrs are forced to spec 20 into defense to achieve what is already inbuilt into some classes.

If you really feel that traits are the way to go to fix inherent class problems then please at least make them adept traits. Personally at least I don’t want to see another fiasco like Destruction of the Empowered again.

Indeed fixing huge design flaws through traits is only going to pigeon hole the class (even further).

If they think Warriors need more condi removal through adrenaline consumption, then they should make that a part of class design. It was mentioned many times here.

Simple – F2 button – Consume some of your adrenaline, get rid of conditions on you.

But this game has many much more serious problems than warrior not being compeatable… Despite the fact that warrior is the only class designed the way all classes should be designed in this game in the first place, and not the other way around…

Well who has tested the 8 professions fighting each other with no traits?

You’d think warriors could get a teammate to remove their condi’s for them? Maybe that’s design intent?

Chopps.5047:

You’d think warriors could get a teammate to remove their condi’s for them? Maybe that’s design intent?

that is good design and good way to promote teamplay, if only they didn’t make rest of classes so independent (and game mode that requires so much of it).

Ya, I see what you mean. Fwiw I’m not defending ANET, just trying to toss up explanations.

That’s not even the point of this thread though. If you “fix” a class via implementing new traits then those traits become requirements to make that class functional. What they should be doing is looking at all the abilities in built into the class and their utilities, maybe even take a hard look at their mechanics and fix those instead.

Yes, i think this is pretty obvious for everyone except for the devs, which is funny, and thats why in the state of the game when they said that they need a warrior on the show the dev face…. that face explain everything.

If you’re saying that balance philosophy priority should go: mechanics>utilities>trait cleanup then agreed.

Every class in the game needs a trait cleanup, but traits should only be bolstering current builds, not acting as keystone choices for creating band aid fixes to make not viable builds semi-usable, by pigeonholing them into new cookie cutter specs.

jcbroe.4329:

If you’re saying that balance philosophy priority should go: mechanics>utilities>trait cleanup then agreed.

Every class in the game needs a trait cleanup, but traits should only be bolstering current builds, not acting as keystone choices for creating band aid fixes to make not viable builds semi-usable, by pigeonholing them into new cookie cutter specs.

Yes, thank you for putting it far more eloquently than I could.

Jzaku.9765:

But now warrs are forced to spec 20 into defense to achieve what is already inbuilt into some classes.

Can someone explain to me this?

^
Warriors have to take Cleansing Ire to remove condis on Adrenaline usage (bursts) which should be a part of the class, rather than a trait because it’s so vital to the functionality of the class. Such as Necromancers having Putrid Mark and Dagger 4, etc, other classes have many more viable condition removals without having to spend so much into a single tree.

I think you’re overestimating the “inbuilt” condition removal of other classes. Most need traits just like warrior does and just because you don’t want to pick Cleansing Ire while playing glass cannon doesn’t mean it should be untraited. Sounds like you want to be very survivable while dealing GC damage.

Other classes condition traits are as follows: Remove a condition every x. Requires nothing on the person’s part but having the trait.

kaplis.7195:

I think you’re overestimating the “inbuilt” condition removal of other classes. Most need traits just like warrior does and just because you don’t want to pick Cleansing Ire while playing glass cannon doesn’t mean it should be untraited. Sounds like you want to be very survivable while dealing GC damage.

Please don’t try to discredit me by claiming I am a GC warrior that only frenzy-100bs’.

I meant exactly what I said, that classes have much better access to condition clearing than Warriors and Anet “fixed” it by creating a pseudo-mandatory trait 20 into defense. Which is not good practice.

Also I seriously don’t see why a GC mesmer is allowed to be insanely survivable while a warr is not?

Jzaku.9765:

kaplis.7195:

I think you’re overestimating the “inbuilt” condition removal of other classes. Most need traits just like warrior does and just because you don’t want to pick Cleansing Ire while playing glass cannon doesn’t mean it should be untraited. Sounds like you want to be very survivable while dealing GC damage.

Please don’t try to discredit me by claiming I am a GC warrior that only frenzy-100bs’.

I meant exactly what I said, that classes have much better access to condition clearing than Warriors and Anet “fixed” it by creating a pseudo-mandatory trait 20 into defense. Which is not good practice.

Also I seriously don’t see why a GC mesmer is allowed to be insanely survivable while a warr is not?

It sounds like that.
Okay, so where do guardians get their condition removal? – shouts, for which they need specific runes (which also work on warrior) and 30 points in Honor. Looks like the same situation.
And that’s because mesmers are stupid.

But that’s also a valid issue; guardians are forced into shouts to have good condition removal.
However, Guardians also have Ray of Judgement, Cleansing Flame, Signet of Resolve, Purging Flames, Contemplation of Purity, Smite Condition, Bow of Truth, and Purifying Ribbon (elite), all of which inherently remove conditions in some way, without needing to trait for it.

Other classes are FORCED to trait for viable condition removal, and have no or not enough (viable) choices otherwise.
Warriors; Mending, Shake it Off, Signet of Stamina
Rangers; Healing Spring, Signet of Renewal, Empathic Bond
Engineers; Cleansing Burst, Drop Antidote, Elixir C, Toss Elixir C, Toss Elixir R
Thieves; Shadow Return; Hide in Shadows (specific conditions, but all damage), Shadow Step->Shadow Return, Signet of Agility
Elementalists; Healing Rain, Phoenix, Cleansing Wave, Magnetic Wave, Ether Renewal, Cleansing Fire, Signet of Water
Mesmer; Null Field, Power Cleanse
Necromancer; Putrid Mark, Deathly Swarm, Consume Conditions, Plague Signet, Well of Power

Notice how most of the choices are either not viable competitively because they aren’t good enough (I just named them all, I didn’t rate them), and how some classes have twice as much access to removal as others, even without traits? Condition

Pressure in this game has got to the point where it is so consistent and spammable, that most classes outside of traited Guardians and Elementalists can’t deal with the pressure. Trait wise: Warriors get pigeonholed, rangers get pigeonholed, elementalists get pigeonholed, engineers get pigeonholed, Mesmer doesn’t even have viable removal, and thief really doesn’t either unless they build a defensive perma-stealth build, which is more effective outside of node capture gameplay.

Necromancers and Guardians are the only classes that don’t necessarily get pigeonholed into traits if they want viable removal.

jcbroe.4329:

But that’s also a valid issue; guardians are forced into shouts to have good condition removal.
However, Guardians also have Ray of Judgement, Cleansing Flame, Signet of Resolve, Purging Flames, Contemplation of Purity, Smite Condition, Bow of Truth, and Purifying Ribbon (elite), all of which inherently remove conditions in some way, without needing to trait for it.

Other classes are FORCED to trait for viable condition removal, and have no or not enough (viable) choices otherwise.
Warriors; Mending, Shake it Off, Signet of Stamina
Rangers; Healing Spring, Signet of Renewal, Empathic Bond
Engineers; Cleansing Burst, Drop Antidote, Elixir C, Toss Elixir C, Toss Elixir R
Thieves; Shadow Return; Hide in Shadows (specific conditions, but all damage), Shadow Step->Shadow Return, Signet of Agility
Elementalists; Healing Rain, Phoenix, Cleansing Wave, Magnetic Wave, Ether Renewal, Cleansing Fire, Signet of Water
Mesmer; Null Field, Power Cleanse
Necromancer; Putrid Mark, Deathly Swarm, Consume Conditions, Plague Signet, Well of Power

Notice how most of the choices are either not viable competitively because they aren’t good enough (I just named them all, I didn’t rate them), and how some classes have twice as much access to removal as others, even without traits? Condition

Pressure in this game has got to the point where it is so consistent and spammable, that most classes outside of traited Guardians and Elementalists can’t deal with the pressure. Trait wise: Warriors get pigeonholed, rangers get pigeonholed, elementalists get pigeonholed, engineers get pigeonholed, Mesmer doesn’t even have viable removal, and thief really doesn’t either unless they build a defensive perma-stealth build, which is more effective outside of node capture gameplay.

Necromancers and Guardians are the only classes that don’t necessarily get pigeonholed into traits if they want viable removal.

i.e. you shouldn’t cry about warrior condition removal because it is as good/bad as everyone (almost) else’s.

kaplis.7195:

i.e. you shouldn’t cry about warrior condition removal because it is as good/bad as everyone (almost) else’s.

Don’t twist his words to your benefit. Warriors and Mesmers have the worst access to condition removal, but warrs require condition removal to function due to generally having to melee to deliver on all that high deeps they are known for. Or cc with Hammer/mace. It’s a completely different issue with other classes which almost always have a way to fight from range.

This is so true. There already are a lot of traits that classes pretty much need to operate. IMHO all those traits (and future class fixes) should simply be class mechanics and then be balanced around accordingly (but of course that requires some amount of work so Anet won’t do it…). Things like Boons on attunement switch for eles (and a lower default switch cooldown), Clones on Dodge for Mesmers and of course the OPs warrior trait.

IMO, if they are going to fix traits, they need to make bigger and a lot more grander changes. There is alot of clutter that can simply be combined together to make room for newer traits.

Fixing weapon skills and making some of them alot more useful is another avenue. This game simply isn’t just pumping out raw DPS so there needs to be an effect tied to most of the weapon skills.

Fixing the clunkyness of certain weapons, making for smoother transitional gameplay, , modifying melee combat, etc.

I feel like this is an extremely important thing that not many people realize, and word needs to be put out more.