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Point blank shot
Inb4 church of pewpew Ranger.
But seriously it’s more a matter of predicting when they are going to use it rather than reflexing the animation. A smart Ranger will never fight you head on anyway.
Rule #1 of LB Rangers, power Necros and P/P Thieves is to be on the lookout for targets that have used up their dodges before unloading the damage. Though tbh forcing someone to waste a dodge roll is also a good thing.
With Ranger point blank shot into RF is an extremely powerful combo which is also very easy to execute unless you are playing with your feet or something. Remember that push also disables the target for a duration making it a great primer for high dmg channeled skills.
(edited by Spirigo.2897)
Maby its only me but compared to “pin down” i have a freaking hard time dodging “point blank shot”
Its not only because its 1/2 sec compared to 3/4 sec of “pin down” but also the Arrow speed..
So its more of the combination of both 1/2 + fast Arrow making it really hard to dodge in time.
even if you make “point blank shot” 3/4 sec just like “pin down” its still much faster.. but atleast it gives us some way to dodge it.
you can say its still 1/2 casttime.. but try to look it from the otherside, the moment you see the white circle animation its already to late because the Arrow is soooooo fast..
at 100% velocity it takes 1/2 to cast and 0.25 seconds at 1000yards depending on how close you are you’ll have to react earlier or later to avoid the arrow rather than the 1/2 cast time .
at 300 yard range close to the ranger Dodge as soon as you see that animation not after.
at max range from the ranger Dodge At the end of the animation and it should time correctly that you’ll dodge when the arrow gets closer to you.
watch the animation and judge the distance to decide ether to dodge quickly or dely it for the arrow flight.
shouldn’t be too difficult at all , it’ll only be difficult if your the type of player that likes using flashy effects and roations on the fly , most of the time people misjudge the timing while trying to close and don’t stay calm so they mess up the timing .
You don’t even have to watch the animation tbh. Rangers will always use this skills once you are in range. With enough practice it should become quite easy to avoid it most of the time in a direct confrontation. It’s still a pretty BS build though especially against matchups where you have to dodge a lot of kitten or against less experienced players.
My issue is that, it’s not like they are even doing anything terribly useful apart from DPS, but you still have to go murder them asap which means climbing up some random cliff while avoiding all the garbage they throw at you. kitten Ranger, either disengage properly or die. Don’t throw a ton of semi-effective stuff at me.
(edited by Spirigo.2897)
You don’t even have to watch the animation tbh. Rangers will always use this skills once you are in range. With enough practice it should become quite easy to avoid that skill most of the time in a direct confrontation. It’s still a pretty BS build though especially against matchups where you have to dodge a lot of kitten or against less experienced players.
My issue is that, it’s not like they are even doing anything terribly useful apart from DPS, but you still have to go murder them asap which means climbing up some random cliff while avoiding all the garbage they throw at you. kitten Ranger, either disengage properly or die. Don’t throw a ton of semi-effective stuff at me.
not all of us , I’ll do the normal rotation and then When its off cooldown i’ll use a different Skill like Huntershot right after a dodge move to bait out their dodge followed by PBS forcing a double dodge or he’ll take the Pbs and a full combo.
and i don’t need a cliff to win a fight and dude Calm down its Valid advise.
You don’t even have to watch the animation tbh. Rangers will always use this skills once you are in range. With enough practice it should become quite easy to avoid that skill most of the time in a direct confrontation. It’s still a pretty BS build though especially against matchups where you have to dodge a lot of kitten or against less experienced players.
My issue is that, it’s not like they are even doing anything terribly useful apart from DPS, but you still have to go murder them asap which means climbing up some random cliff while avoiding all the garbage they throw at you. kitten Ranger, either disengage properly or die. Don’t throw a ton of semi-effective stuff at me.
not all of us , I’ll do the normal rotation and then When its off cooldown i’ll use a different Skill like Huntershot right after a dodge move to bait out their dodge followed by PBS forcing a double dodge or he’ll take the Pbs and a full combo.
and i don’t need a cliff to win a fight and dude Calm down its Valid advise.
^ Doing it right. Facing something like this is alright actually. It’s all about forcing the enemy to use up the dodges before doing PBS into RF. Tbh you can follow that up with GS 3, 4 into entangle or something along those lines.
But you have to admit most of the time the LB ranger would just camp LB while using 3, 5 and utilities to essentially delay the inevitable. It just makes the fight feel like such a massive chore.
(edited by Spirigo.2897)
If you evade as soon as you see the visual cue of PBS, it is dodgeable. Usually one would anticipate when PBS is about to be used, and so evading it is definitely possible.
Normally, however, players are unable to evade it because of lack of dodges – they probably had to burn dodges earlier to evade the ranger/pet’s other attacks.
Yea, Point blank shot is more then the animation.
with Pin down you can just see the animation and start to react to it.
it takes more then that to dodge Point blank shot, you have to 50% predict and 50% react.
basically you have to predict when the ranger is going to use it so you can have a faster reaction time.
i have a much easier time to dodge Point blank shot now compare to month back, but again most rangers are not good players. i’m pretty sure good players can land it easily without being predicted.
Point Blank Shot is hard to dodge. Honestly, I just have sorta grown to “feel it coming”, and then take my dodge roll then.
At my rating, Rangers typically open with Point Blank Shot after they’ve sorta pew pew’d at you for a bit while they close a distance. So just sort of expect it then.
Any skill with a 1/2 second cast or less is difficult to dodge. Average human reaction time is .25 seconds, and once you factor in latency (~150 ping is still considered fairly good), you only have ~.1 seconds to recognize the skill and decide to dodge.
It’s going to be tough. Anything with a 1/4 second or faster cast requires prediction to avoid, normally.
It’s easy to dodge if you really take care of it The thing is most of the time the ranger already pew pew-ed you from 1500 range and you had to burn somes dodges
If you have trouble dodging point blank shot, then you’d have trouble dodging Engi’s overcharged shot, or Mesmer’s push from Greatsword, both of those skills are nearly instant, with no sign of arrow flying to you or anything. Maybe this is entirely intended?
(edited by Toxsa.2701)
It’s easy to dodge if you really take care of it The thing is most of the time the ranger already pew pew-ed you from 1500 range and you had to burn somes dodges
Point blank shot has a much shorter range than rest of the longbow skills. If point blank shot hits you, you’re not at 1500 range.
My point was that most of the time you have few endurance left when you finally close the gap and PBS will hit you no matter what . The thread is just about dodge and I said " Yes it’s easy to dodge if you really take care of it " .
Anyway any good ranger will count dodges before use it
Go here: http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime
…and test your reaction time. Don’t cheat, it won’t help your situation (a lot of the people in the LB are “cheaters”).
My average reaction time while 100% focused is 230ms, which means that when I am “expecting” a PBS I have the time to dodge it (take into account your ping as well – I usually ping below 100ms, so I am able to dodge it IF I know that the ranger is going to use it soon).
However, if I am not expecting it (for example, if I am currently focused on something else, like interrupting his Heal, planning something, talking to my teammates, looking at the map…), my reaction time is around 400ms, which means that, taking ping into account, I will hardly react fast enough to dodge it.
In any case, this is how I divided skills:
-Skills below 0.5 cast time (instant skills AND 0.25s cast time skills) need to be “randomly dodged” (which means that no matter how fast you are, you either predict the exact moment the enemy is going to use it or you won’t dodge it).
- skills with a 0.5s cast time are usually dodged IF predicted (which means that if you expect them to use a certain skill soon, you might react fast enough to dodge it).
-skills with 0.75 cast time need to have you focused on the fight, but you should be able to dodge them always (assuming you are not out of dodges).
-skills with 1+ second cast time can be dodged all the time if you see the animation.
Of course, LEARNING the animation is actually important. For example, PBS has a 0.5 cast time, but its animation is not “that” different from a normal autoattack, so by the time you realize that the enemy is going to use PBS instead of an autoattack at least 0.1s have passed already.
(edited by hihey.1075)
its 2am here and im kinda half a sleep got a 317ms average.
my fastest was 244mm but im too tired to focus that much lol.
though to the above the Range between the target and the ranger count for lot , the closer you are the easier it is to dodge or evade just by kiting into the rangers blind spot , go through him turn 180 and cleave / repeat it increases your chances of not being hit by Pbs and means you won’t have to use so many dodges too.
at Longer range than 600 you have to account for flight time so in this case you do have enough time to react.
(edited by Zenos Osgorma.2936)
If you have trouble dodging point blank shot, then you’d have trouble dodging Engi’s overcharged shot, or Mesmer’s push from Greatsword, both of those skills are nearly instant, with no sign of arrow flying to you or anything. Maybe this is entirely intended?
Not quite comparable. Mesmer GS wave has long cooldown and short range. A well-used one is definitely hard to dodge though.
Overcharged shot also cc engineer himself and has be close as well.
PBS has both short cool down and long range, making it much easier to use.
Fun fact:
Contrary to popular belief, Point Blank Shot did have a distinguishing tell (differentiating it from other ranger LB attacks) before it was given the white swirl/purple daze arrow trail.
You’ve not really got any excuse now that those are a thing.
There are many counters to PBS. Blind being the most effective.
A good blind will force them to us an AA before PBS giving you more time.
I play thief and generally PBS is not very effective as if they do actually land one, its a matter of ShadowStep or Infultrator’s signet to get out of it and right back in their face.
Its not just a matter of dodging, its a matter of gap closers if by chance they do land it.
I dont know what the OP plays so its hard to nail down a decent strategy for him.
Though on thief, its a matter of knowing the ranger’s range from you and when to stealth to get you in range of them. As that is generally the most effective counter to a thief power ranger has, PBS them before the thief gets in range of their gap closers.
I would say most of my fights with rangers PBS is used under 300 units because of the insane amount Gap closers D/P has which if they do land it, its just a matter of another gap closer (which also happens to be your stun breaker) to get right back to them.
Not to mention the coming changes of Hard to Catch + Dont Stop and Swiftness on Dodge. Its going to be pretty much the end of the PBS+RF combo against a thief, if it ever was a problem to begin with.
Which is why I stopped fussing about PBS and Skyhammer, as being PBS while jumping up on a platform using the jumping things of which you cant use asy skills while in the air to counter gets you knocked off the map. The fix is coming for at least thieves.
(edited by nightblood.7910)
mesmer gs always 450 KB range 450 also Guess what 5 TARGETS.
Ranger Pbs :
at short range LESS than 300 yards = 600KB
At range greater than 600 = 400 KB
the pbs rangers has different Variation of play while the gs has a better all round push back, just a mesmer alone can use the wave to push people off the map if he uses it at the 450 range limit , yes it is 150 shorter than pbs but it does not have to be below 300 yards to get that decent push.
apples and oranges.
if you want to use wave to push people down or off skyhammer using a mesmer gs get your postioning correct and range judgement correct and they can also do the same thing only the target has to be 150 yards closer to the edge of the map which is quite easy if you chain it with a terrormancers or a team mates fear.
It should probably be 0,6 or something. Then again, so should probably mesmer knockback.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
^ Usually only characer that i play on
mesmer gs always 450 KB range 450 also Guess what 5 TARGETS.
Ranger Pbs :
at short range LESS than 300 yards = 600KB
At range greater than 600 = 400 KBthe pbs rangers has different Variation of play while the gs has a better all round push back, just a mesmer alone can use the wave to push people off the map if he uses it at the 450 range limit , yes it is 150 shorter than pbs but it does not have to be below 300 yards to get that decent push.
apples and oranges.
if you want to use wave to push people down or off skyhammer using a mesmer gs get your postioning correct and range judgement correct and they can also do the same thing only the target has to be 150 yards closer to the edge of the map which is quite easy if you chain it with a terrormancers or a team mates fear.
30 sec cooldown vs 15 sec cooldown
medium dmg weapon vs high dmg weaponAint comparing PBS to all other skills because its the total package… the total package from ranger longbow is low risk high reward. very easy to setup..
I am “ok” with its dmg, but not if they also have a low cooldown easy knockback (with greater knockback distance) it rewards them ALLOT!! so atleast make it dodge able..1/2 with the speed of bullets is really fast.
People saying about yeah but engie have knockback on rifle and mesmer etc etc.. sure but look at its total package.. engie gets a small knockback also and the mesmer knockback is 2times longer cooldown + its weapon issnt a high dmg dealer. (most dmg comes from fire/air on AA… shouldnt be there also but that a different topic)
greater kb at a short Range 300 yards is pretty much Melee Range. to get that 600 yards , but smart rangers will use it at the 500-600yard line to create the most space , same as Mesmer could with gs used at 450 range + 450 Kb = 900 vs 1100 the difference will only ever be 125-150 kb difference the push back part isnt of discusion .
other classes have different Variations because there are ranged skills that can be traited to KB + piece multi targets without Sacrificing eagle eye which gives them the Range.
if you can’t deal with a Pbs at max range or are simply moaning about the 400 KB at greater than 600 range , I wouldnt even give two monkeys if they Lowered the
KB at greater than 600 yards to 150 yard KB , it would make no difference in how most experienced rangers use pbs in the first place.
mesmer gs always 450 KB range 450 also Guess what 5 TARGETS.
Ranger Pbs :
at short range LESS than 300 yards = 600KB
At range greater than 600 = 400 KBthe pbs rangers has different Variation of play while the gs has a better all round push back, just a mesmer alone can use the wave to push people off the map if he uses it at the 450 range limit , yes it is 150 shorter than pbs but it does not have to be below 300 yards to get that decent push.
apples and oranges.
if you want to use wave to push people down or off skyhammer using a mesmer gs get your postioning correct and range judgement correct and they can also do the same thing only the target has to be 150 yards closer to the edge of the map which is quite easy if you chain it with a terrormancers or a team mates fear.
30 sec cooldown vs 15 sec cooldown
medium dmg weapon vs high dmg weaponAint comparing PBS to all other skills because its the total package… the total package from ranger longbow is low risk high reward. very easy to setup..
I am “ok” with its dmg, but not if they also have a low cooldown easy knockback (with greater knockback distance) it rewards them ALLOT!! so atleast make it dodge able..1/2 with the speed of bullets is really fast.
People saying about yeah but engie have knockback on rifle and mesmer etc etc.. sure but look at its total package.. engie gets a small knockback also and the mesmer knockback is 2times longer cooldown + its weapon issnt a high dmg dealer. (most dmg comes from fire/air on AA… shouldnt be there also but that a different topic)
Lmao, talking of total packaging, mesmer’s GS and engie’s Rifle are rated much higher, than ranger’s LB in PVP.
Mesmer GS ignore projectile reflection, pierces, trigger fire air like no tomorrow, break most range blocking skill through GS4, boon removal, and best push skill to counter thief’s shadow refuge. (Point blank shot need to GUESS the location, and the success rate is extremely low).
Engi rifle is the weapon that makes them to the meta, pierces on default too, immobolize, instant knockback 600 range + LAUNCH (target will lay down there unable to do anything) with no animation (the aftercast is like 0.5 second only), high double burst AOE that ignores projectile reflection and LoS. Add that along with some kits and slick shoe, boom.
Stop talking as if LB is stronger than the other 2 variants. They’re of equal strength (or slightly inferior strength for LB) with different functions. There’re reasons why Rifle Engi and GS mesmer make into the Meta and in Top teams while Ranger’s LB doesn’t.
(edited by Toxsa.2701)
The above is neither a good argument nor a good comparison.
Just listing the strengths of other builds without taking their playstyles into consideration as well as relating to a number of case studies won’t get the discussion anywhere apart from whataboutism battles.
Both Engi and Mesmer knock backs are typically used for defensive purposes rather than as a primer to unload the burst damage from a single skill so the player interaction with it is different.
It’s pretty obvious at this point that people talk about situations where the ranger uses PBS as a primer for the burst rather than situation where knock back is used as an utility-centric move.
The above is neither a good argument nor a good comparison.
Just listing the strengths of other builds without taking their playstyles into consideration as well as relating to a number of case studies won’t get the discussion anywhere apart from whataboutism battles.
Both Engi and Mesmer knock backs are typically used for defensive purposes rather than as a primer to unload the burst damage from a single skill so the player interaction with it is different.
It’s pretty obvious at this point that people talk about situations where the ranger uses PBS as a primer for the burst rather than situation where knock back is used as an utility-centric move.
Nicknamenick has worse comparison because he doesn’t even show examples, yet saying total package-wise LB is a much better weapon than Mesmer GS and Engi’s rifle. Also you don’t seem to play Engi, saying overcharged shot is mainly used defensively, even though many people use this skills either to decap or to set-up burst.
But we already know you HAAAAAATE ranger, it’s ok bro, you can take a break, we know that already.
(edited by Toxsa.2701)
Not to mention the coming changes of Hard to Catch + Dont Stop and Swiftness on Dodge. Its going to be pretty much the end of the PBS+RF combo against a thief, if it ever was a problem to begin with.
Which is why I stopped fussing about PBS and Skyhammer, as being PBS while jumping up on a platform using the jumping things of which you cant use asy skills while in the air to counter gets you knocked off the map. The fix is coming for at least thieves.
all classes are getting new stuff, what makes you think rangers wouldn’t have something better to handle thieves?
Sanctum of Rall
Pain Train Choo [Choo]
Mind Smack – Mesmer
Pain Train Choo [Choo]
Mind Smack – Mesmer
Rangers need the speed of cast.
They are not Hambows, they are not Medi/Burst Guardians.
They are squishy in close range and thus the purpose in the speed of such interrupts.
I use the name Barbie on all of my characters.
The above is neither a good argument nor a good comparison.
Just listing the strengths of other builds without taking their playstyles into consideration as well as relating to a number of case studies won’t get the discussion anywhere apart from whataboutism battles.
Both Engi and Mesmer knock backs are typically used for defensive purposes rather than as a primer to unload the burst damage from a single skill so the player interaction with it is different.
It’s pretty obvious at this point that people talk about situations where the ranger uses PBS as a primer for the burst rather than situation where knock back is used as an utility-centric move.
Nicknamenick has worse comparison because he doesn’t even show examples, yet saying total package-wise LB is a much better weapon than Mesmer GS and Engi’s rifle. Also you don’t seem to play Engi, saying overcharged shot is mainly used defensively, even though many people use this skills either to decap or to set-up burst.
But we already know you HAAAAAATE ranger, it’s ok bro, you can take a break, we know that already.
Actually he did an alright comparison and his thread of thought makes sense because really it’s a question of how the rest of the kit interacts with the knock back as well as how easy it is to combo it with other skills.
The thing is that the quality of his comparison has no effect on the quality of yours. It doesn’t change the fact that what you’ve posted is essentially worthless in the scope of this discussion because it simply lists the strengths of certain other kits without taking playstyle into consideration or exploring a number of case studies.
I don’t hate Rangers per se but I do hate this particular build because of its extremely low skill floor, to the point where a player can essentially tap into its full strength on their first match with it, contrasted by how hard it can fall off against more experienced players but still somehow remain a neusance.
Whereas both Engineer and Mesmer both take a lot of practice to learn and will never be truly effective as long as the player doesn’t know what to do with them. This is more evident with Engis than Mesmers though.
(edited by Spirigo.2897)
Honestly, I don’t see the need for everything to have counter play.
A lot of the stuff in this game is too easy to dodge already whether trying to or not and with charges, jumps, stability, blinds, blocks dodges, invisibility and line of sight; I can’t really see a reason for all these skills to have huge animations.
Wildstar has a good setup for counterplay since it relies on skill shots and telegraphs, in GW2 there are already too many counters for everything already.
Not to mention there would be no difference between average and exceptional players if everybody can easily react to visual ques.
This stuff never stops if this changes or doesn’t he will just go back to complaining about how ranger greatsword (and necromancer as well) has a longer attack range or something else equally no well thought out.
He won’t be satisfied until the game is reworked to be Guild Warriors 2: hundred blade heroes,
Pets have been hidden due to rising Player complaints.
roll med guard with MH sword
champion magus
previously rank 2 on old leaderboards
EG.secret.OG.NAVI.sorrychief
previously rank 2 on old leaderboards
EG.secret.OG.NAVI.sorrychief
mesmer gs always 450 KB range 450 also Guess what 5 TARGETS.
Ranger Pbs :
at short range LESS than 300 yards = 600KB
At range greater than 600 = 400 KBthe pbs rangers has different Variation of play while the gs has a better all round push back, just a mesmer alone can use the wave to push people off the map if he uses it at the 450 range limit , yes it is 150 shorter than pbs but it does not have to be below 300 yards to get that decent push.
apples and oranges.
if you want to use wave to push people down or off skyhammer using a mesmer gs get your postioning correct and range judgement correct and they can also do the same thing only the target has to be 150 yards closer to the edge of the map which is quite easy if you chain it with a terrormancers or a team mates fear.
30 sec cooldown vs 15 sec cooldown
medium dmg weapon vs high dmg weaponAint comparing PBS to all other skills because its the total package… the total package from ranger longbow is low risk high reward. very easy to setup..
I am “ok” with its dmg, but not if they also have a low cooldown easy knockback (with greater knockback distance) it rewards them ALLOT!! so atleast make it dodge able..1/2 with the speed of bullets is really fast.
People saying about yeah but engie have knockback on rifle and mesmer etc etc.. sure but look at its total package.. engie gets a small knockback also and the mesmer knockback is 2times longer cooldown + its weapon issnt a high dmg dealer. (most dmg comes from fire/air on AA… shouldnt be there also but that a different topic)
Lmao, talking of total packaging, mesmer’s GS and engie’s Rifle are rated much higher, than ranger’s LB in PVP.
Mesmer GS ignore projectile reflection, pierces, trigger fire air like no tomorrow, break most range blocking skill through GS4, boon removal, and best push skill to counter thief’s shadow refuge. (Point blank shot need to GUESS the location, and the success rate is extremely low).
Engi rifle is the weapon that makes them to the meta, pierces on default too, immobolize, instant knockback 600 range + LAUNCH (target will lay down there unable to do anything) with no animation (the aftercast is like 0.5 second only), high double burst AOE that ignores projectile reflection and LoS. Add that along with some kits and slick shoe, boom.
Stop talking as if LB is stronger than the other 2 variants. They’re of equal strength (or slightly inferior strength for LB) with different functions. There’re reasons why Rifle Engi and GS mesmer make into the Meta and in Top teams while Ranger’s LB doesn’t.
That’s so wrong to say mesmer and engi make into meta because they had a superior weapon!
Mesmer is only taken by a few teams because of portal. W/o portal, I don’t think any team will take mesmer. Mesmer GS burst also makes a lot more sense because it’s heavy burst comes from close range. At long range, it does decent damage but not that bursty.
Engi has tons of utilities and can roam really fast. On top of that they have decent sustain. They are indeed the jack of all trades. However, their burst from rifle or combination of skills takes way more setup than ranger longbow.
Ranger’s LB is a super strong weapon. But ranger class as a whole does not provide a better package than some of the other profession in PvP. They do have the advantage of being able to carry a large amount of bad players to do decent in pug groups.
I have a hard time taking this thread’s complaint seriously when the OP is single-handedly responsible for about half of the “buff us pls” threads on the warrior forum (no, really, look through the first five pages and try to find one that doesn’t have several of his threads on it) and the first post is making a direct comparison between ranger and warrior longbow skills.
Maybe the solution is to just realize that not every profession has to be strictly worse than warrior at everything (coming from someone who mains warrior).
(edited by Torqiseknite.1380)
Just wondering why this OP never complain about Thief HeadShot instead. Try go vs a Thief and tell me which is easier to dodge Point Blank or Headshot
“Oh no, i cant see it coming, nerf it , QQ”
As usual, just another day, another QQ about ranger which obviously inferior to any other class in GW2.
12K AP
Level 54 Bear Rank
Level 54 Bear Rank
Just wondering why this OP never complain about Thief HeadShot instead. Try go vs a Thief and tell me which is easier to dodge Point Blank or Headshot
“Oh no, i cant see it coming, nerf it , QQ”
As usual, just another day, another QQ about ranger which obviously inferior to any other class in GW2.
I don’t wan’t to come in between the two of you, but…
You do understand the differences of the two weaponsets right?
And you do understand the difference between Headshot and Point Blank Shot I hope?
When you figure this out, this thread might make a lot more sense.