Guild Wars 2

Hello my dear GW2 sPvP community~! First of all allow me introduce myself. I am Emmrahil , a 33 years old person from Greece. I play MMO RPG’s competitive last 11 years and i have a world title in my previous MMO RPG ( Lineage 2-Official Servers-Battle Tournament 2013 7v7). I play GW2 sPvP seriously for last year. I am member of a newly created team named Constant Evolution [CoEv]. What made me write this message is the number of pointless rage posts i saw in forums this year and the pointless rage comments i read in map chat in HotM. I would like tell some things to all of you first…the GW2 sPvP community.

I read many people raging about game…They say game is bad , unbalanced , unfair , and that Anet makes wrong decissions.First of all i wish to inform you that game is fine. Needs improvment ofc like all games do but is inside Top-3 MMO RPG’s when it comes to sPvP , competition and esporting at this moment. Of coarse it can not be compared with a MOBA game. But no MMO RPG will ever be able be compared with a MOBA game. If you dont know why take a moment to think about it.Why handball will never be able be as popular as basketball?Retorical question but hope will help you think.

My dear community the first thing you need to know is that sPvP is something comeptitve. And when it comes to competition , to succed you need invest time , have a proper attitude and also work , work , work.

Truth is most of you think you deserve be in a pro team. Guess what?You dont.

You cant expect be in same level with someone who practise 8 houres daily if you play 1 houre per day , even if your micro skills are decent.I personally practise 6 houres daily for 12 months and i know i still have LOTS of work to do. Of coarse people with talent exists, who can get great results with less work.But pay attention : with LESS work…not without work~! Also as any other sport , in esporting someone who works harder has a high chance rise higher than a natural talent who works much less.

My dear community..you dont even know what you wish. You raged because fights was too long..When Anet changed that you cried that fights are too fast now with too many instakills.You raged because game didnt helped people develope teams. Then when GW2 made a solid league system which encourage teams and competition with prizes you cried solo quers are left out.You cried about sPvP being unbalanced.Of corse you thought was a good timming to do so when your class got nerfed. You cry about DH this season when in meta games DH rarelly apears. Of coarse you dont even know it.You dont watch pro league. Why to do so?You are better than them~!You cry meta builds exist and noone makes his own build.You forget that in competitive enviroment people play what is best. No 99% the random yolo build you made isnt better than meta ones .You cry about solo que balance.Then when was fixed you cry about que times.You cry cry cry cry about everything that dont satisfy your instant needs…the only thing you dont do is be serious and work hard.

Is fine if you dont wish be a pro. Is fine if you are a casual who just play for fun.There is nothing wrong with it. What is wrong tho , is to think that this approach of game is the only right approach.Is wrong blame people because they play to win.Is wrong blame people because they have a sport mentality and approach.Is wrong blame Anet because the decisions Anet makes dont have YOUR game approach as center.

You need remember that meta stage (where game is played in its higher level) is the most important stage of sPvP. You think developers should care more about a semi-casual solo que’ers opinion than a pro one? No , they shouldnt. You think that random solo ques are more important than tournaments ? No they are not. You think GW2 has low popularity as an esport ? You MAYBE are right if you dont concider GW2 is a MMO RPG , but you dont have to be a top popular esport to be an esport and have an esport policy. Like you dont have to be football to be a sport and have serious professional approach.

And now my dear Game developers :
I know you work hard. I know you wish to have everyone pleased and happy. I know that you are tired see community pointlessly rage after any decision you make. So an advice : don stop getting feedback from community BUT ALSO please : STOP listen community (me including) 100% . Stop try have everyone happy.You wont manage to do it and you will probablly get bad results if you try make game esport and have casuals happy same time. People will always cry about everything that dont satisfy their instant needs.Keep in mind competition and esporting is future of gaming. And try make decisions which will help game grow that drection.

With love and respect
Emmrahil

P.S. : My English dont allow me express myself 100% BUT i think core of my point is clear. Try understand that and pay attention to that more than my spelling mistakes.

I feel that you are a bit biased…

It seems to me that you create a 5 man so you steamroll pugs via premades and then praise the game for being so amazing. Realistically…you shouldn’t be able to play against pugs as it gives you an unfair advantage. But I guess because the population is so low they merged the two to fix queue times. Of course you will enjoy it when it works in your favor but think about all the people you fight against that don’t have a chance. Would you feel the same way if you were playing premade vs. premade? I’m curious.

And just because someone doesn’t have the time to practice six hours a day to dedicate to pvp, doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to have a fair chance. Remember we aren’t in the pro-leagues and many don’t intend to be, they just want balance.

Also, while there is a lot of “rage” as you would say, there are literally pages and pages and pages of constructive criticism that goes un-attended to. It’s a shame that people have to post on another website to get an official response from developers.

Back during beta weekends pre HoT, the class and pvp forums were “flooded” with dev commentary and feedback. Then just as HoT neared its release the forums for the most part became a wastelands again. There is very little response from devs on what’s going on and even less discussion with the playerbase – which can in fact help.

A lot of the changes people suggest are in fact very well discussed and thought out but much of the time anet seems to nerf this and nerf that and call it a day.

I don’t know why they chose a business model of silence. It seems very weird to have your own game’s website/forums and not maintain it. Customer service is a huge part of any industry and in this game it is severely lacking IMO.

I think there will be a bigger issue when people stop being vocal about the inherent issues in this game because that means they no longer care.

Roquen.5406:

I feel that you are a bit biased…

It seems to me that you create a 5 man so you steamroll pugs via premades and then praise the game for being so amazing. Realistically…you shouldn’t be able to play against pugs as it gives you an unfair advantage. But I guess because the population is so low they merged the two to fix queue times. Of course you will enjoy it when it works in your favor but think about all the people you fight against that don’t have a chance. Would you feel the same way if you were playing premade vs. premade? I’m curious.

And just because someone doesn’t have the time to practice six hours a day to dedicate to pvp, doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to have a fair chance. Remember we aren’t in the pro-leagues and many don’t intend to be, they just want balance.

Also, while there is a lot of “rage” as you would say, there are literally pages and pages and pages of constructive criticism that goes un-attended to. It’s a shame that people have to post on another website to get an official response from developers.

Back during beta weekends pre HoT the class forums and pvp forums were “flooded” with dev commentary and feedback but then just as HoT neared its release the forums for the most part became wastelands again. There is very little response from devs on what’s going on and discussion from the playerbase – which can in fact help.

A lot of the changes people suggest are in fact very well discussed and thought out and helpful but much of the time anet just seems to nerf this and nerf that and call it a day.

I don’t know why they chose a business model of silence. It seems very weird to have your own games website/forums and not maintain it. Customer service is a huge part of any industry and in this game it is severely lacking IMO.

I think there will be a bigger issue when people stop being vocal about the inherent issues in this game because that means they no longer care.

Of coarse agree that pugs shouldnt face premades…then both will cry about que times tho…game needs improvment as all games do…unlike what you said tho i think that rage posts are MUCH MUCH more than “constructive criticism”. “It seems to me that you create a 5 man so you steamroll pugs via premades and then praise the game for being so amazing”…if that is what you mainly got from this post i doubt you understood it..or that you had the will to udnderstood it. Anyway , i welcome all opinions as long are not in “OMGGAMESUCKSNERFEVERYTHING” mood

Well, you state that you made a team for yourself, I would imagine it’s a 5 man. If that’s the case then you are now playing 5 organized people against mostly random people. So of course you will have an advantage and you would consider pvp “fair” because it plays in your favor. Try solo queing for 4 seasons and see how lopsided matches are. Either you steamroll the other side or they steamroll you. The even match-ups are so far and few in-between it’s not even fun.

You get matches like:

5 premades vs 5 pugs
3 thieves vs 3 guardians – who designed the game to be paired that way? That’s so lopsided…
4v5’s….
Other stacked classes
Games where you have people facing off against people many tiers ahead of them
Games where people tanked MMR just to breeze through the ratings
Games where your team duels off point the entire game
Games where your team cannot win a single team fight but then continue to feed mid 1 by 1
Games where someone trolls the entire game
Games where people cap and run off and don’t hold
Games where you get cursed out for trying to coordinate
Games where there is a huge disconnect between the skill level of the players on your side and the enemy side

The list goes on and on and on. Yes, I am aware that developers cannot fix everything but they can do a whole lot more than they are doing at the moment, or at least communicate with us more.

Roquen.5406:

Well, you state that you made a team for yourself, I would imagine it’s a 5 man. If that’s the case then you are now playing 5 organized people against mostly random people. So of course you will have an advantage and you would consider pvp “fair” because it plays in your favor. Try solo queing for 4 seasons and see how lopsided matches are. Either you steamroll the other side or they steamroll you. The even match-ups are so far and few in-between it’s not even fun.

You get matches like:

5 premades vs 5 pugs
3 thieves vs 3 guardians – who designed the game to be paired that way? That’s so lopsided…
4v5’s….
Other stacked classes
Games where you have people facing off against people many tiers ahead of them
Games where people tanked MMR just to breeze through the ratings
Games where your team duels off point the entire game
Games where your team cannot win a single team fight but then continue to feed mid 1 by 1
Games where someone trolls the entire game
Games where people cap and run off and don’t hold
Games where you get cursed out for trying to coordinate
Games where there is a huge disconnect between the skill level of the players on your side and the enemy side

The list goes on and on and on. Yes, I am aware that developers cannot fix everything but they can do a whole lot more than they are doing at the moment, or at least communicate with us more.

I guess that you missed the parts " all games need improvments" . For 100th time ofc pugs shouldnt face premades and IF is possible class stucking should be removed from solo que too. But that was not the point of my post.Point of my post was community’s mentality and point of view. Not my personal team. By the way i spend 2 seasons solo que100% both legendary inside max 2 weeks. But that is not the point. Also my team’s goals are very high..much higher than “win pugs in ques”.But that is not the point also.Point of post was pretty clear. Cant express is better than i already did. ^^

First and foremost OP, I completely agree with you. And no worries, u speak engrish better than 70% of us

Better activate that Fire Shield because a lot of people don’t like what you just said, the ugly truth.

Roquen.5406:

I feel that you are a bit biased…

It seems to me that you create a 5 man so you steamroll pugs via premades and then praise the game for being so amazing. Realistically…you shouldn’t be able to play against pugs as it gives you an unfair advantage. But I guess because the population is so low they merged the two to fix queue times. Of course you will enjoy it when it works in your favor but think about all the people you fight against that don’t have a chance. Would you feel the same way if you were playing premade vs. premade? I’m curious.

The “your in a premade steam rolling us players” comment is always the go to rebuttal right? A typical, one-sided argument that gets eaten up by what i’m about to explain.
Oh and to answer for him, yes, we would feel the same if it was premades vs premades except we’d have a cheesy grin on our face when we’re finally facing competitive teams.

Roquen.5406:

And just because someone doesn’t have the time to practice six hours a day to dedicate to pvp, doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to have a fair chance. Remember we aren’t in the pro-leagues and many don’t intend to be, they just want balance.

Every single soloQ player who hits that Ranked PvP button has a fair chance. Anyone and everyone has gotten stacked up against their favor. What eventually separates the Casuals from the Good is Dedication. I’ve never met a good player who said they couldn’t reach Legendary because it was “unbalanced” or “unfair”. A pro golf player can’t expect to make the leaderboards if he doesn’t compete, yet, players complain as if they’re entitled.

Roquen.5406:

Also, while there is a lot of “rage” as you would say, there are literally pages and pages and pages of constructive criticism that goes un-attended to. It’s a shame that people have to post on another website to get an official response from developers.

In the business world, it’s called Conflict of Interest. Devs cannot and should not get caught up in every single semantic debate that goes on in the forums. They inform the community with major changes and certain inquiries when they can. The “other websites” is a neutral ground where they can bend the company forum politics because, well, it’s technically not official.

Roquen.5406:

Back during beta weekends pre HoT, the class and pvp forums were “flooded” with dev commentary and feedback. Then just as HoT neared its release the forums for the most part became a wastelands again. There is very little response from devs on what’s going on and even less discussion with the playerbase – which can in fact help.

The Devs were talking to the community while simultaneously developing HoT. I’ve hardly ever see this happen in a gaming community. Post HoT, their budget was dwindling; other than bugs, little to no programmable art or coding could have been made. It was back to business as usual.

About the rest of your post in regards to Anet’s business model, player’s poor feedback on the forums, and something about silences… what you’re venting here is subjective and irrelevant.

Saiyan.1704:

First and foremost OP, I completely agree with you. And no worries, u speak engrish better than 70% of us

Better activate that Fire Shield because a lot of people don’t like what you just said, the ugly truth.

Than you my friend. And dont worry i always have my Shield of Wrath ready for such situations. I just hope Anet will keep the game to a competitive esporting path as they already started and wont be effected from semi-casual ragers at forums. ^^

Not everyone “can” reach legendary. If the matchmaking favors you sure but there is only so much you can carry solo. You can even watch someone like sindrener (since you guys like to quote pro leagues), doesn’t matter how well you play there are matches you can’t carry. And if you are solo and not as “pro” then you have even less of a chance. It doesn’t matter what class you play as if you are facing any competent team you cannot solo carry wins. If you team up – sure you have much better odds but that is a different story.

You don’t have to attack to get your point across with antagonistic comments like “Better activate that Fire Shield because a lot of people don’t like what you just said, the ugly truth.” I didn’t attack the OP, I just don’t agree with him/her and they don’t have to agree with me. That’s fine, keep the personal stuff out of it.

That said I don’t have much else to say as you seem to gloss over many of my points just to prove yours. No point in my attempting to discuss this further. Have a good one.

sPvP shouldn’t be a big competition. Only tPvP should. People solo queue because they are casual and that’s what SoloQ should be about. However, there should be a competitive game mode and that’s what leagues are for. But adding a PvE item to the most competitive PvP mode was a terrible idea. The League reward should have been a cool skin (like a weapon or maybe an outfit), not an actual item. Make a separate Legendary item for Unranked or maybe make a more casual version of leagues and then add a pro version made for those who want the greatest competition. It’s ok to add divisions, as long as it makes the game good, and I really don’t see how this could make the game bad. Casuals don’t like leagues, and in fact, casuals are what’s ruining leagues. High end players don’t want to fight lower end players, and you’ll never be able to separate them without an MMR reset and a good system in place to keep them apart.

Anet, I know this guy said not to listen to the community, but we have good suggestions. Learn to recognize the best ones, and consider ways to implement them. The time you shouldn’t be listening to the community is in the case of class balance, but even then, the general community can have some good suggestions about that. But let pros decide what the good suggestions are.

Things aren’t black and white and they never ever will be.

That is a bright blue deer.

Roquen.5406:

Not everyone “can” reach legendary. If the matchmaking favors you sure but there is only so much you can carry solo. You can even watch someone like sindrener (since you guys like to quote pro leagues), doesn’t matter how well you play there are matches you can’t carry. And if you are solo and not as “pro” then you have even less of a chance. It doesn’t matter what class you play as if you are facing any competent team you cannot solo carry wins. If you team up – sure you have much better odds but that is a different story.

You don’t have to attack to get your point across with antagonistic comments like “Better activate that Fire Shield because a lot of people don’t like what you just said, the ugly truth.” I didn’t attack the OP, I just don’t agree with him/her and they don’t have to agree with me. That’s fine, keep the personal stuff out of it.

That said I don’t have much else to say as you seem to gloss over many of my points just to prove yours. No point in my attempting to discuss this further. Have a good one.

One does not simply end a discussion by saying their peace and move on, but feel free to not reply.

No one solo carries as a Thief vs decent mmr teams… You chose possibly the worse competitive class (not the player per say) in the ESL. They’re just a hit-n-miss in all aspects, in SoloQ and ESL both. If it was Lord Helseth on the other hand, that’s a noticeable point.

You make it sound like you got to be some kind of an esports ESL player to reach Legendary… I reached Legendary in S2, S3, & S4, all SoloQ as DH. I was inactive much of S1; the bunker meta wasn’t exactly enticing.

As far as the fire shield comment, I was just being facetious, perhaps a little crude, but it definitely had nothing to do with you in particular. I’m sorry you took offense.

I can if I don’t think the conversation will go anywhere but I will reply so that I don’t leave you hanging.

I don’t think you need to be a pro to reach legendary. I just feel more often than not I am fighting a flawed system. Most of my matches consisted of me banging my head against the wall and that’s tiresome.

I sit there fighting with my own team and the enemy team…
Aka,
Me – “Hey can you grab home then decap far if open?”
Them – “I know how to play my class, don’t tell me what to do…”
Proceeds to rush mid as thief and dies within 5 seconds
Spends the rest of the match dueling off point
Me – Hey please hold…we have 2 points and are up by 100…they cap and run off…and we end up losing.
“Please focus targets”
“Please stomp”
“Please take out treb”
“Stop running mid to die 1 by 1”
“Play sides we are feeding mid”
“There are 3 thieves on our team…can 2 of you swap?”
etc..etc…

And before anyone says it, I know I am not the perfect or best player and I make plenty of mistakes but I do know half the time I am fighting things that are outside of my control.

Anywho /shrug I’m probably just talking in circles at this point.

Well the game has issues. But i can support Emmrahil.
Most problems come from matchmaking and that build diversity gets destroyed. I say divesity not class balance, these are two diffrent things, that go hand in hand. For balanced PvP and esports one build per class might be suficient. But its high risk loosing lots of players in the long run. It makes the game booring and this already seald the end of many games.
As already said placing average and beginners against pro´s and full premades results in ranting. This is not good.
And for me i am a more or less casual that loves theocrafting and playing diffrent things no one expects. And i am usually successful with it.

Firstly, mostly agree with OP. Some points I differ somewhat, but will not waste time on semantics.

Zintrothen.1056: People solo queue because they are casual and that’s what SoloQ should be about.
Just because you don’t play on a premade doesn’t mean you are not a serious player. I play 4-8hrs a day in Solo Q because in my part of the world there is not enough a large enough player population and finding a team is proving to be a monumental task. There is Unranked or HotJoin for the casual player. As far as I’m concerned Ranked is for all players who want to compete.

Roquen.5406: Not everyone “can” reach legendary.
Absolutely correct! And not every player deserves to be legendary. Folks need to give up this idea that in a competitive mode everyone can have everything. I worked my butt off to make Diamond and know kitten well I don’t deserve Legendary. Lots more work and practice before that becomes an achievable goal.

IMHO majority of issues in spvp right now are as a direct result of poor balance and MM. If/when we see that improve a lot of the extranneous issues will resovle themselves.

+1

Forum Community has some off-beat case of bipolar disorder.