Guild Wars 2

This suggestion was probably mentioned before but couldn’t find it in search. So I’m sorry if it’s the same idea all over again.
Here goes in detail:
Many players are always talking about Meta builds that ruin their game. Builds that are so OP that it ruins their soloq / teamq ranks because the only way to be in the top100 is by using those builds. I remmember people saying that you just need to be Engie with crate’s build and you are top 100 soloq easy, so imagine if you’re a very good player with that build.

Well, one thing that many players know that works a lot in ranked matches in MOBAs like LOL is the “3 Champion ban” feature before each match starts.

I know that we can’t ban a profession before a match, since there are only 8 professions, but we can ban other things, like runes, sigils, utility/elite skills or even one weapon (3-5 skills that can’t be used) and that will completelly change the competitive side of this game.
Besides that, it also gives A-Net more hints and information about what really needs to be tweaked, making their job easier when balacing professions and when creating a player-friendly feature to change builds fast.

Just think about it. Take Dagger from your enemies choice and their thiefs and elementalists will need to know their class very well if they want to be effective with other weapons. Or take the Engie’s crate from their choice and you will suddenly stop seeing the engie’s soloq build beeing so effective.
Or even the players community will learn that only limiting one rune or sigil = changing a lot of builds, maybe too many of them, and A-net will know what needs to be changed.

This wouldn’t be effective in competitive play because both teams could shut down their opponent completely, forcing a boring or unbalanced game and this would further encourage bunker/celestial builds that are good at doing everything.

I don’t believe that Benjamin. This idea can be worked in a way that you can’t restrict all 5 players and their builds, but limiting the stronger meta-builds is very important for players to learn their characters more than just those same builds. Besides that, in competitive play you will see the best teams knowing other teams and playing according to those.
And I don’t believe that players will be satisfied with beeing good and equal to everyone else. They will always look for the best builds, even if they’re weaker, or even create new ones that no one expects to.

@Tanztante, lol… this is a suggestion to improve the competitive side of the game and the problems many players see in this game. I’m not whining about anything. Learn to know the difference.
Besides, I play and always played Guardian so I know that I could very well be in the worst position ever with just one restriction in one my builds. And I know very well that’s necessary because in this game if we want it to become more competitive in all sides (soloq, teamq and even tournies) we have to start making players know the easiest ways don’t always work. You know that works in MOBAs very well (unless you would find it fun to see the same champs and teambuilds in all matches with nothing new to show) and players still talk about some of the champs beeing OP. In this game there’s no restriction at all to give the enemy team so most players will never learn to get better if they find the game broken (according to many complaints about this game, so this already is a reality.)

I vote instead of having some arbitrary system like you suggest that maybe……just maybe…..tweaks to the overpowered/overly dominate builds be made by um…….the design team?

Crazy.

Get 10 people together and try it in a custom arena. I’m sure you’ll see why it wouldn’t work then. I’d happily help you try it out if you’re on EU.

It’s MMORPG not MOBA
/closethread

A: oh, i see two warriors in enemy team, i therefore banish hammers, longbows and axes. hahaha, you cannot deal damage now, warriors! i pwn3d you so good, with my madly raging moba skillz!

B: oh kitten, both warriors relogged. to engi and guard, oh noes! what should we do now?
A: aaaaaah, what did we do?!

___________________________________________________________

A: we have a mesmer and i am nec , enemy gots like thief. we will therefore banish daggers, swords, shortbows, so our mes can freecast, lol
B: oh kitten, they banished greatswords, staffs and scepters. mesmer has to relogzors!
A: well, me too, kitten. but there is nothing left to play in the game except engis and killshot warriors.
B: oh noes, i wish anet would not have listened to the whiners! what do we do now?
A: i go outside, play a ball game or go rock climbing, maybe ride my bike!

this is so pointless, i can’t even think of any serious examples.

Why not ban weapons at Counter-Strike? xD

oh god pls we need improvements in pvp and restricting classes/build wont help it . First we need balance patches+new maps+game modes and then maybe some features . If you want to play LOL and ban champions go play LOL it is gw2 and it is called MMO not MOBA , right now my team and I have to wait 10 mins to find enemies on team queue and now what we are gona wait 30 min for single game ?!

I think we should have build templates(lets say 3 on our hud ) and we should be able to switch them when we are ooc . But we shouldnt be able to switch chars . I already switch my builds when I am roaming on www and it is great fun when you attack 5 people kill 2 then run away switch build and hit them even harder when they try to res ,so much fun and then you can see how many bad players play this game and only spam burst skills to nuke down enemy .

I could see banning runes, and amulets.

Removing amulets and runes you can tone down builds but still allow them to function. There are a few cases where it breaks builds completely but I think that might develop more diversity over time.

I don’t think you can realistically ban weapons.

@Daishi, ty for beeing the only person who picks up this idea for what it really is, a possible sollution that needs to be improved and perfected for the game that is GW2.

See people, when you pick up a suggestion just do it like him: see the possibilities of that suggestion in multiple ways untill you see if it really works or not instead of saying it wouldn’t work without never testing it before.

About switching classes: I don’t agree with it also. Whether or not they take it out, this suggestion is a possible sollution for both situations because not every player knows how to play all classes, in fact most players only know to play 1 or 2 classes good enough and this sollution already helps to counter that a little bit.

About testing it on my own: most players love to have all the good and easiest options in their favor if that means winning something. Unless the game makes everyone follow the same rules, changing the rules inside an Arena has no real progress because outside of it things haven’t changed and players know that. If the game changes that to everyone things might work for better or for worst because everyone follows the same rules, that’s why you see the 4vs5 problems in hotjoins or the switching classes problems all the time, it’s a good and easy decision to lvl up in ranks and the game allows those rules.

btw, just because this isn’t a MOBA it doesn’t means it can’t take something from MOBA games. The same goes for any other game that contributed to how GW2 was made, or you wouldn’t had hot-joins, you wouldn’t had guns, you wouldn’t had dodge and Jumping Puzzles and many more.
Open your minds a bit.

And one last thing out of context because you seem to clearly want to know about me: I don’t like MOBAs very much and the only one I liked to play more than usual was Smite. But I know what to look for in competitive gaming and what works in them. I like MMORPGs and played them for much more than a decade. And because of that I will always look for ways to improve GW2 which is the game with the best potential and gameplay untill now. Now that I’ve talked about myself enough, lets focus on the idea and the many possible ways of doing it to see if it works. thanks.

I always had the dream that there would simply be rewards (skin/titles/ect) for playing bizarre builds. Incentivizing those who wish to branch out or experiment with their specific profession.

For example:
•Playing X complete games as an Engineer in SPvP while having the Bomb Kit, Throw Mine, and Rocket Boots Utility Skills equipped Will award you with the Demolition Expert Title.
•Or playing X complete games as an Engineer in SPvP while having all Gadget type skills will award you with the Gadget Savant title.

As well as encouraging/rewarding styles of play. For Example:
•Revive X players with Toss Elixir R.
•Curing X conditions from Allies with Fumigate
•Remove X boons from enemies with Throw Mine & Mine Field
•Successfully land a Net Shot from a distance greater than 1000 X times.
•Immobilize X enemies using Glue Shot, Glue Bomb and Glue Trail from Elixir Guns Kit Refinement.

Each type of accolade could award the player with anything from Crafting Material to Titles and Exclusive skins. There could also be several more prestigious titles that can only be earned after gaining most/all of the previous ones making them increasingly difficult to complete but far more rewarding.

These types of achievements/PvP type quests would inadvertently promote build diversity and breath fresh air into the game while opening up the opportunity for replay ability and in my opinion, a more rewarding experience.

Aztex.4895:

@Daishi, ty for beeing the only person who picks up this idea for what it really is, a possible sollution that needs to be improved and perfected for the game that is GW2.

Thank you for not taking appropriate criticisms and instead embracing anyone that at least half agress with you.

You communicate just how opinionated you are when you can’t accept criticism.

It reflects just how dead your suggestion is received.

I really like the idea of profession-specific achievements, would be fun! Could we have chests to go witht hem please?

GOSU.9574:

Thank you for not taking appropriate criticisms and instead embracing anyone that at least half agress with you.

You communicate just how opinionated you are when you can’t accept criticism.

It reflects just how dead your suggestion is received.

Saying “no, because I don’t like it” to a suggestion is not a criticism, no matter how many words or different ways you use to say that. It doesn’t help to reach any conclusion about the suggestion since it just clearly says “No.”

And, about your previous post before this one, A-net can still work on the balance of the game, but giving a new option for players to control the balance of the game is one step closer to help Anet understand what exactly needs to be worked on instead of giving them multiple threads and posts talking about how OP or not one Build is, making them confused about what exactly in that build is wrong.
Imagine this: once a said rune/amulet is banned all the time in games, they know exactly that thing needs to be worked on with facts.

Aztex.4895:

GOSU.9574:

Thank you for not taking appropriate criticisms and instead embracing anyone that at least half agress with you.

You communicate just how opinionated you are when you can’t accept criticism.

It reflects just how dead your suggestion is received.

Saying “no, because I don’t like it” to a suggestion is not a criticism, no matter how many words or different ways you use to say that. It doesn’t help to reach any conclusion about the suggestion since it just clearly says “No.”

And, about your previous post before this one, A-net can still work on the balance of the game, but giving a new option for players to control the balance of the game is one step closer to help Anet understand what exactly needs to be worked on instead of giving them multiple threads and posts talking about how OP or not one Build is, making them confused about what exactly in that build is wrong.
Imagine this: once a said rune/amulet is banned all the time in games, they know exactly that thing needs to be worked on with facts.

1. “Guyz they 2 thieves and 1 mesmer, go ban berserk amulet” = 5×2 because all others suks at this profs.
2. As result “giving a new option for players to control the balance of the game” LOL WAT? Players will abuse this and create 10 times more disbalance then now. Just look at 1.
3. 1 min before fight + at least 30 sec to bans + 2-3 min to let people change builds. Maybe start?

Anton.1769:

1. “Guyz they 2 thieves and 1 mesmer, go ban berserk amulet” = 5×2 because all others suks at this profs.

Well, that’s the interesting part of competitive play. If the other team has good players they will know how to play with those professions without berserk amulet right?! If they don’t, then they need to train more or find other solutions.

Anton.1769:

2. As result “giving a new option for players to control the balance of the game” LOL WAT? Players will abuse this and create 10 times more disbalance then now. Just look at 1.

Abuse this? how since every team can use it in the same way?!
Creating more disbalance? In my opinion it’s creating more opportunities to balance the game by searching for the enemy teams weakness in their strategy, something very usefull in competitive play. It also helps the players to improve themselves and search for different options while using the same professions.

Anton.1769:

3. 1 min before fight + at least 30 sec to bans + 2-3 min to let people change builds. Maybe start?

Since we’re talking about ranked/tournie games, I don’t think that spending 5 mins creating and improving a team is bad. These difficulties help each player and each team to improve with each match they fight.
If there’s a good UI for this to work fast and smoothly, 5 mins is perfect. but that’s my own opinion though.

Aztex.4895:

Anton.1769:

1. “Guyz they 2 thieves and 1 mesmer, go ban berserk amulet” = 5×2 because all others suks at this profs.

Well, that’s the interesting part of competitive play. If the other team has good players they will know how to play with those professions without berserk amulet right?! If they don’t, then they need to train more or find other solutions.

Let amputate your left hand . If you are smart man you will know how to work with 1 hand right? If you don’t then you need to train right hand more or find other solutions.

maybe we should ban not their amulets,weapons but accounts yh !!! come on it is mmo you gear your char , set skills etc and then what ? you hear that your entire build is useless and you have to play healing thief because there are no more options ?!

on 15 people there is maybe one positive opinion , this idea is just bad , same as banning same professions ( you can have 5 eles and all of them will have different build and they can wipe enemy team)
we just need balance patches to keep everything balanced to something like this

I think it could work just by “banning” 1 trait or 1 weapon or 1 utility for every class.
for exemple:
-For Warrior: a team must choose if banning longbow, cleansing ire or berserker stance
-For Thief: sword, sleight of hand or shadow refuge
and so on..

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

we just need balance patches to keep everything balanced to something like this

Do you really believe Anet will be able to balance all the classes without having metabuilds?!

I don’t… you know why? because any player base in any game will always be faster in finding out those metabuilds then the game devs will ever be able in balancing the game. It can work for many games with few variables to tweak at some point, but in games like MOBA’s, MMORPGs and such where there are buffs, debuffs, CCs, etc., every time something is tweaked by the devs for one thing it will influence many other things.
Since this game (and most MMORPGs) has too many variables across all classes, Anet spends months trying to balance the game and the GW2 player base spends just a few days (2 weeks tops) to find the best metabuilds after all the work Anet had.
And then this type of games never grow in competitive play comparing to other genres because everyone feels like it’s always the same thing for months… untill a new patch comes in and the cycle restarts again.

A balanced game is impossible in these type of games because the players always find ways to disbalance the game…. unless the player base itself learns how to counter their own findings. Which is what happens in MOBAs. They gave their player base all the tools to break the game AND to counter their own findings themselves.

But yes, you’re right… in 15 posts only 1 was positive to this idea. Let’s hope Anet is able to balance the game or, at least, to find a way to make the game balance itself.

Kolly.9872:

I think it could work just by “banning” 1 trait or 1 weapon or 1 utility for every class.
for exemple:
-For Warrior: a team must choose if banning longbow, cleansing ire or berserker stance
-For Thief: sword, sleight of hand or shadow refuge
and so on..

Thanks.

But I think banning 1 thing for every class might be too much indeed.If you ban only 1 thing it already might change a lot in a teams build, but it also brings a lot of new things to the game. Imagine that you just ban a greatsword, it might already influence 5 skills in 1 or more players of the opposing team, which is HUGE.
That’s why Daishi talked about banning only runes or amulets, because those don’t inflict too much of an impact in the gameplay of a build but it’s big enough to make it weaker.

It’s MMORPG not f… MOBA. At MMORPG players can play 1 class with 1 spec and never change it. If they want change some – it must be their choise not because Aztex and 4 morrons at enemy team don’t let him use some gear and skills

I’d say banning weapons might be rather hard to deal with since it would absolutely shatter people’s play styles rather, what about being able to ban utility skills?

Yeah let’s ban shelter, healing signet, steal, water attunement, healing turret, death shroud, mind wrack and so on…why not staff, hammer, dagger, shortbow and scepter (Gl eles and necs with no staff, dagger and scepter) too?

Such a cool idea bro. Not, if you want to play a moba there is a ton of mobas out there…they should just make gw2 like gw1 pvp was…that would be more than enough to make this thing an esport

This is a terrible idea. This isn’t a MOBA with hundreds of possible characters that I can pick from on a whim. This is an MMORPG. I don’t know if you know this, but RPG means Role Playing Game. That means we make a character, work on it to make it strong and fit our playstyle, and then play with it in the role we choose.

I play an elementalist. I use a staff. If you ban my staff I now have to use daggers which is a WILDLY different playstyle and fills an entirely different role from what I intended to play. I no longer can fill the role of a ranged nuker. So what am I suppose to do? If this WAS a MOBA, then I could just switch from one ranged hero to another. But it isn’t and I can’t, because I don’t have another profession that can fill that role. I could go Longbow Ranger and spam Arrow Volley I guess, but it’s not anywhere near as effective as meteor shower and the longbow is all single target ranged damage where I wanted to play AoE. And what if the only professions I have on my account is elementalist, thief, and guardian? I’m screwed. I have to change to a different role for the battle. This might not be a problem, except that in this game mode the word TEAM is right in it’s name.

So I can’t play my role as ranged nuker that my teammates built their own composition around. That means that I have to play a role I didn’t want to play and now they must all shift in their roles to accommodate the new team strategy.

Me: I can’t do staff anymore. I’m switching to a burst damage dealer with daggers.

Ally 1: But I’m already running thief. We can’t have two.

Me: Sorry but it’s either this or I switch to my guardian and we already have one of those.

Ally 1: Fine, I guess I’ll go condi necro.

Ally 2: But we really need you as a thief. You’re way better at that playstyle than him.

Me: Sorry, but I have nothing else unless I go bunker ele, and we don’t need a third bunker here.

Ally 3: I HOPE YOU ALL DIE YOU (%#$&$#(%!_%#(^#&(%)^)#^(()^#^&#%##%$#$%$^#%$#$#%^#$%#$!!!!! Flips table in real life

Now everyone shifts their roles around and we have to log off/on and play with our builds until we come up with something passable. No one is playing the role they actually enjoy and no one enjoys the match.

GW2 is as much about the team composition as the individual builds. Changing one forces a shift in the rest, unlike in a MOBA where most people are largely in their own lanes for most of the fight and so synergy between champions isn’t nearly as important.

NOOOOOOOOO

Got that? Just no.

Geeking out on builds and finding my own synergies is core to my enjoyment of the game.

All we need to make PvP great are more game modes and more maps.