Guild Wars 2

While i can see the logic of the argument : “you can also do premades”, i think there should be a separate lobby for them.

Let premades face premades. Allowing a premade to play against a PUG is just unfair.

Don´t get me wrong, i have no problem losing a match, as long as the match is balanced or at least not that much lopsided.

Yesterday i did a premade with some guys from my guild and we pretty much forced at least one player to drop from the enemy team on every match.

While it´s all nice and dandy to get rank farm, i was really bored and ended up leaving the premade and getting back to solo queue.

I can only imagine the frustration for the teams we faced (i played two matches and then dropped, they got a replacement for me and kept going).

League of Legends has a system where you can duo queue with a friend, but teams can only face another team.

I think it would be a pretty decent improvement of the SPVP system we have now.

On a side note, bring back the other maps, this voting system is SO bad. 8 out of 10 matches are foefire.

So, what do you guys think? Premades vs PUG, love or hate?

Its possible they may have the luxuary of seperating the queues come the expansion but until then (and maybe even after) that restriction will not feasible with the player base and queue times.

I think Anet has a kitten for pre-mades. There are some who feel that solo’ers should never complain because…I don’t know…they think soloing is inferior to pre-mades.

Why they think this way is never made clear.

there used to be soloq and teamq, anet decided apprently that forcing players to form teams is good idea…. at costs of all players (which are still majority) that happend for various reasons not to have a team….

I don’t care. Just don’t match me with people who double cap home, attack npcs, and rush far with a guardian.

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

I think the system is quite good the way it is now. You can queue with a team of any size. The main problem is the low population in PvP. That is the main reason for bad matchmaking. Forcing players in different queues would make that problem even worse, you would wait forever to get even more lopsided matches.

TexZero.7910:

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

Everybody can socialize, very few can organize 5 people with different schedule, interests and time zone, then play for hours together to reach a considerable level of cohesion.

The creation of team should be the very end of what PvP has to offer…no the very beginning or rather the only way to enjoy PvP…and you wonder why the pvp pop is low?

Shylock.4653:

I think the system is quite good the way it is now. You can queue with a team of any size. The main problem is the low population in PvP. That is the main reason for bad matchmaking. Forcing players in different queues would make that problem even worse, you would wait forever to get even more lopsided matches.

Do you expect the population to grow if new players are pitted against veteran premade from the very start?

We have the : newbs, the vets and the teams; you can’t have a MMO without all three of them, from newbs you get vets and from vets you get teams.

Right now is :

1) Newbs vs Vets
2) Newbs+Vets vs Teams
3) Teams vs Newbs
4) Failure

But the system should be like this :

1) Newbs vs Newbs = You get new vets
2) Vets vs Vets = You get teams
3) Teams vs Teams = Esport

Supreme.3164:

Everybody can socialize, very few can organize 5 people with different schedule, interests and time zone, then play for hours together to reach a considerable level of cohesion.

And therefore it is great that the system allows you to play as a team of any size. A system that forces you to play alone or as full 5 man team would drive many away from PvP.

Split it, but once the expansion drops. For now, build structure for new and returning PvP players. Once influx of players and interest occurs, split queue.

That’s at least what I would do.

TexZero.7910:

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

Just because it’s an MMO does not mean a pre-made team is better. Where’s the logic in that?

they destroyed my favorite part of the game . i hate premades.

bhagwad.4281:

TexZero.7910:

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

Just because it’s an MMO does not mean a pre-made team is better. Where’s the logic in that?

Well, to be fair, I seriously doubt you would win the WTS with a pug. Which does mean that playing as a premade is a more optimal way of playing conquest. The coordination you have is better, and the strategic plays you can pull off are superior. I mostly duoq, because it’s fun, but when I do play in a full premade, it’s like a different game. I wouldn’t say “superior”, but less casual.

The problem with the argument to man up and get a team on an MMO is that we are joining and playing with other people already. What we aren’t doing is putting off playing the game until we find a reasonable number of people to play with. If it takes 5-10 minutes to find a team but you can only play for 2 matches, that’s not an efficient way to pass the time. In my guild TS is required for PVP. Personally, I play in the evening and I don’t use TS because people are watching tv and I don’t want to bother them.

My solution would be to rename unranked to Casual and only let premades up to 3 people join. If you are playing casual, you don’t care about rank. However, this leads into another point that solo players will always be at a disadvantage in terms of leaderboard since you are more likely to win in a premade than solo.

Yeah its not a problem of poremades existing. Why shouldnt they be able to run a premade against other premades.

The problem is that there is clear advantage over people who solo queue as you have so much control over everything from communication, the experience you have on your team, the builds they are running, and the total team comp itself. Even if you take out TS, the premade still has the clear advantage over the solo queue team just because they are not relying on this match making system to give them a team.

Which is cool, I understand the desire to do that, and its a great part of this game. It just needs its own place that is not so dramatically unfair to those who play PvP and are not on a premade.

Even the group of guildies that put something together on a spur and are not on TS. If they half way organized their comp they are doing better than the soloqueue guys.

TexZero.7910:

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

lol, the only way to make a team in this game is to get 5 players who are willing to base considerable parts of their lives around guild wars 2.

premades should go to ranked
the most solo q player go to unranked and think its quite honorless to play as organized teams against PUGs
thats just farming
the power of direct communication is strong
and try to tell ur PUG team while fighting that player X goes to place Y in a time, which is enough to react

snow.8097:

premades should go to ranked
the most solo q player go to unranked and think its quite honorless to play as organized teams against PUGs
thats just farming
the power of direct communication is strong
and try to tell ur PUG team while fighting that player X goes to place Y in a time, which is enough to react

You never ever win against premades? I would say I win at least 50% of the games where I face full guild premades, because their individual mechanical skill are much lower than mine usually. If you are one of the very best players in the game, your MMR is probably too high for you to beat a premade in a PUG, but I don’t think you are (but I don’t know every top player, pardon me if it’s the case).

I’m going to agree with you. It would be nice to be able to play in ranked ONLY in a full premade, and let the 1-3 man parties play in a more casual fashion in unranked.

Lordrosicky.5813:

TexZero.7910:

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

lol, the only way to make a team in this game is to get 5 players who are willing to base considerable parts of their lives around guild wars 2.

Or just ask people from your friend list to play with you when you are connected.

Not saying that you shouldn’t play in soloq. Soloq is fun. But if we want to build a competitive scene, teaming up should be incentivized, not frowned upon. Premades don’t play to “farm” pugs: they team up because soloq is too casual to keep a good player occupied for long.

Sorel.4870:

Lordrosicky.5813:

TexZero.7910:

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

lol, the only way to make a team in this game is to get 5 players who are willing to base considerable parts of their lives around guild wars 2.

Or just ask people from your friend list to play with you when you are connected.

Not saying that you shouldn’t play in soloq. Soloq is fun. But if we want to build a competitive scene, teaming up should be incentivized, not frowned upon. Premades don’t play to “farm” pugs: they team up because soloq is too casual to keep a good player occupied for long.

Used to do this all the time. But the community it too small for that now.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Sorel.4870:

Lordrosicky.5813:

TexZero.7910:

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

lol, the only way to make a team in this game is to get 5 players who are willing to base considerable parts of their lives around guild wars 2.

Or just ask people from your friend list to play with you when you are connected.

Not saying that you shouldn’t play in soloq. Soloq is fun. But if we want to build a competitive scene, teaming up should be incentivized, not frowned upon. Premades don’t play to “farm” pugs: they team up because soloq is too casual to keep a good player occupied for long.

Used to do this all the time. But the community it too small for that now.

Which kinda destroys any calls for seperate queues atm.

Coulter.2315:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Sorel.4870:

Lordrosicky.5813:

TexZero.7910:

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

lol, the only way to make a team in this game is to get 5 players who are willing to base considerable parts of their lives around guild wars 2.

Or just ask people from your friend list to play with you when you are connected.

Not saying that you shouldn’t play in soloq. Soloq is fun. But if we want to build a competitive scene, teaming up should be incentivized, not frowned upon. Premades don’t play to “farm” pugs: they team up because soloq is too casual to keep a good player occupied for long.

Used to do this all the time. But the community it too small for that now.

Which kinda destroys any calls for seperate queues atm.

Yeh but they already have seperate queues for no reason

Sorel.4870:

bhagwad.4281:

TexZero.7910:

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

Just because it’s an MMO does not mean a pre-made team is better. Where’s the logic in that?

Well, to be fair, I seriously doubt you would win the WTS with a pug. Which does mean that playing as a premade is a more optimal way of playing conquest. The coordination you have is better, and the strategic plays you can pull off are superior. I mostly duoq, because it’s fun, but when I do play in a full premade, it’s like a different game. I wouldn’t say “superior”, but less casual.

Well, true. But that’s just like using an extra tool that others are not using. It’s as if macros were legal and people using macros have an advantage over those who don’t.

I have no doubt that pre-mades can beat non-premades. I’m just saying that it’s unfair to expect people to engage in a mode of playing that obviously isn’t for everyone

Lordrosicky.5813:

Coulter.2315:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Sorel.4870:

Lordrosicky.5813:

TexZero.7910:

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

lol, the only way to make a team in this game is to get 5 players who are willing to base considerable parts of their lives around guild wars 2.

Or just ask people from your friend list to play with you when you are connected.

Not saying that you shouldn’t play in soloq. Soloq is fun. But if we want to build a competitive scene, teaming up should be incentivized, not frowned upon. Premades don’t play to “farm” pugs: they team up because soloq is too casual to keep a good player occupied for long.

Used to do this all the time. But the community it too small for that now.

Which kinda destroys any calls for seperate queues atm.

Yeh but they already have seperate queues for no reason

I understand what you mean but they still want the concept of a leaderboard and a more casual system to exist (whether the current iteration is accepted by the players is another matter).

As I said earlier there MAY be the opportunity to create Soloq and Teamq again in the exp BUT you need to then look at what to do about groups of 2, 3 or 4 – I’m not sure you can just remove that choice to play with fewer friends. Tbh I think Soloq and Teamq are gone now and won’t be coming back because no matter how many players get upset losing to groups its better than telling people you CANNOT play with less than 4 friends.

Come the Exp your friendslist with grow again and you’ll be able to make a full group easier and the problem will kinda solve itself for a while – when the problem returns the player base will be too small to split the queues anyway.

Best just get used to it – mixed queues are here to stay.

Coulter.2315:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Coulter.2315:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Sorel.4870:

Lordrosicky.5813:

TexZero.7910:

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

lol, the only way to make a team in this game is to get 5 players who are willing to base considerable parts of their lives around guild wars 2.

Or just ask people from your friend list to play with you when you are connected.

Not saying that you shouldn’t play in soloq. Soloq is fun. But if we want to build a competitive scene, teaming up should be incentivized, not frowned upon. Premades don’t play to “farm” pugs: they team up because soloq is too casual to keep a good player occupied for long.

Used to do this all the time. But the community it too small for that now.

Which kinda destroys any calls for seperate queues atm.

Yeh but they already have seperate queues for no reason

I understand what you mean but they still want the concept of a leaderboard and a more casual system to exist (whether the current iteration is accepted by the players is another matter).

As I said earlier there MAY be the opportunity to create Soloq and Teamq again in the exp BUT you need to then look at what to do about groups of 2, 3 or 4 – I’m not sure you can just remove that choice to play with fewer friends. Tbh I think Soloq and Teamq are gone now and won’t be coming back because no matter how many players get upset losing to groups its better than telling people you CANNOT play with less than 4 friends.

Come the Exp your friendslist with grow again and you’ll be able to make a full group easier and the problem will kinda solve itself for a while – when the problem returns the player base will be too small to split the queues anyway.

Best just get used to it – mixed queues are here to stay.

I dont mind no solo queue to be honest. It got pretty lame towards the end anyway

If you are going solo your team will always have less premades because you are part of your team and are solo. You can’t have a full 5 or a 3-2 on your team, while the enemy team can. The same works in reverse as well. As a party you will always have more solo players on the other team.

I know that is obvious but it seems like people think anet has some kind of grudge against them when their matches are just simple probability. Anet also has k values they can tune so they can ensure the matches are fair. A 5 queue could get their mmr “boosted” by say 20% because of the assumption they are in ts and are coordinated. Now matchmaking will find solo players who are 20% better than the individual premade player in order to ensure the balance of the match.

Even though you will face more premades as a solo player, you will have better individual mmrs to account for that.

Premades – hate or love?

Neither. When I solo or duo queue, I don’t get intimidated going against full premades as much as others. They are not all unbeatable, they are not all using voice comms. Sometimes the synergy between the players in a solo queued team is greater than the premade so they end up winning.

On the other hand, the system have placed me in a 4 man guild premade and lost, sometimes by a huge margin.

So when I solo queue and face a full pre, I just tell the team that theyre not all unbeatable, respond fast to contested points etc etc.

TexZero.7910:

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

That may work for players who are experienced and are good but won’t work for players that may be not so great or are new to pvp. Would you team up with new player? I hardly doubt it.

Cynz.9437:

TexZero.7910:

Socialize and form a team.

You PvP with anywhere from 4-9 other strangers each game. You’re playing an MMO and trying to remain relevant and competitive…Solo’ing is not how to accomplish either of those goals.

Or just continue to beat the dead horse, either way. Doesn’t bother me, solo, duo, pre-made who cares. Man up take the challenge. It’s PvP not PvForum.

That may work for players who are experienced and are good but won’t work for players that may be not so great or are new to pvp. Would you team up with new player? I hardly doubt it.

Considering the sheer number of new players that rotate through the guild i’m in and ask about pvp’ing….Yes i do.

Frankly speaking sometimes its a lot easier to play with a newer person than an “experienced one” as they are much more receptive and are willing to learn and adapt.

This thread, shows that in many forms. You have your top of the line “I only solo queue” but will complain player who is unwilling to adapt and talk with and form a team with people around him.

Here’s a clue there were 128 teams in ToL 3 for NA…. I can pretty much guarantee you that none of them said well i only solo. Even if they play day in and out they eventually formed a bond with someone. Even the top tier NA teams wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for talking to players both in match and out of it.

Cynz.9437:

Would you team up with new player? I hardly doubt it.

I do it all the time, and I think a lot of players do as well. I prefer playing with people who I know are learning, but with whom I have fun than “veteran” players who trash talk, afk and what not in soloq. Even if it’s just duoq or trioq.