Guild Wars 2

With paid tourneys costing only 1 ticket per person and having almost zero que time there should be no reason to allow pre made guild/party groups of 4/5 people to enter free tourneys.

Free tourneys should be where people who are beginning to learn conquest mode and people relatively new to spvp play in order to get an idea of what to do since hot join doesn’t really teach much.

Putting new players who are trying out pvp against pre made groups all running the typical cheese stuff like bunker guardian, shatter mesmer, 0-10-0-30-30 ele, etc is detrimental to the game.

When you have 3 longbow hunters fighting a bunker guard at mid for 5min+ only to instantly get burst down by a mesmer/theif, they aren’t going to be having fun and most likely will never set foot in pvp again.

Sorry, but you run out of tickets if you run paids all day.

Shanks R Us.2489:

Sorry, but you run out of tickets if you run paids all day.

LOL what about those of us who work 40 hrs a week, go to the gym, and have friends that don’t play video games? Guess we just have to deal with you people who play all day with no job or obligations.

Soyboy.3548:

Shanks R Us.2489:

Sorry, but you run out of tickets if you run paids all day.

LOL what about those of us who work 40 hrs a week, go to the gym, and have friends that don’t play video games? Guess we just have to deal with you people who play all day with no job or obligations.

Well I have a job and obligations, but essentially, yes.

I also have to deal with the people that play more than me & are much better, there’s always gonna be someone that’s gonna beat you.

I think a redesign of free tourneys is already in the works. I would be fine with paids being the only game mode playable by a 5-man team. Honestly, though, just switching frees to the same format as paids—single match with matchmaking—would go a long way to fixing the problem.

Shanks R Us.2489:

Sorry, but you run out of tickets if you run paids all day.

Only if you consistently lose which should not be a problem due to match making being in place.

Antihero.5429:

Shanks R Us.2489:

Sorry, but you run out of tickets if you run paids all day.

Only if you consistently lose which should not be a problem due to match making being in place.

I don’t fully understand MMR or how it works. What I do know is that I am a casual player, with decent skill and should have a very low MMR. Yet in the 20-30 matches I have done since its implementation 90% my pug hits guild/premade resulting in consistent losses. Seeing as how QP are the only real reward for winning people wonder why there aren’t more teams? Because there is no incentive to get stomped by better teams until you reach their skill level only to recieve QP. All ‘pro’ players already have far more QP than they need and why would casual players want them anyway? So eventually we can use them to face the same teams that are facerolling us now and watch them take the reward no one else had a viable chance of getting?

Antihero.5429:

Shanks R Us.2489:

Sorry, but you run out of tickets if you run paids all day.

Only if you consistently lose which should not be a problem due to match making being in place.

Ignoring the possibilities of buying or crafting tickets, one has a maximum possible ticket income of approximately 1.33 per day from sources other than frees (dailies and monthlies). So, if you lose more than an average 1.33 games a day, you will eventually have to either do frees or buy or craft tickets.

I run with a premade team 100% of the time, and I’d say we do paids atleast 80% if not 90% of the time. We do frees because in paids there’s only one map we can do all week at the momment and when we want practice on other maps, like when were getting tacs ready for foefire next week, we have to go frees.

Hot joins aren’t an option for obvious reason.

I also noticed i’m facing the same 4-5 teams in free tournaments usually, but that’s not such a big issue, it already appears in all games when there are players who decide to face " easier " opponents in order to farm the reward. Most guilds in free are practicing, but there are some that are really here to farm less experienced players/random teams.

The problem is the combinaison of that, plus the long waitings, plus the fact that 50% matchs are 4v5 . So sometimes, you’re doing 5 tournaments upon 2 hours and only 1 is a " fair " battle.

i understand how it feels to go in free tournamnets and face better teams all the time, since i ve been there too of course and perhaps i still am, but premades not being allowed into frees jsut doesnt make any sense to me.

i play pvp because i like it and i like to play with guildmates. i dont always play with the same team and many times i play with low ranked guildmates often in the range 1-10.
My point is that not all premades are top competitive teams. If a change like what you propose goes through then i wont be able to have fun playing with friends.

So with that in mind a good matchmaking system should be a lot better than just preventing premades from playing free tournaments.
If this is too complex for 3 round tournamnets i would settle for a basic system just to prevent high ranked players going against low ranked.

Some other (in my opinion better) but more complex solutions come to mind too, but i think this is not an appropriate thread to post them

NevirSayDie.6235:

I think a redesign of free tourneys is already in the works. I would be fine with paids being the only game mode playable by a 5-man team. Honestly, though, just switching frees to the same format as paids—single match with matchmaking—would go a long way to fixing the problem.

yeh agree. This is how to fix it tbh

there is the LFG system
or there is the CHAT
you can look for a forming team that use Voip and play the game against premades.

That’s one of the most absurd idea I ever heard. You don’t have premade team? Is it my fault? No. So why should I be punished because of that?

I’m running frees with my guildmates, but for most of the time we’ve got 3 guys, who play 1 hour each day and 2 guys, who just start playing. We still have problems in winning 3rd round, because we meet more experienced players there. You know what happens, when we go to paid? We get nothing but pain.

Another absurd idea: don’t let players above 35 or 40 rank play frees, because they’re too good. That’s the same.

You know what’s the problem? Afkers and guys, who don’t know how to read chat, don’t want to get any strategy, and doing dumb mistakes. Another problem is that we’re not able to communicate inside the fight, only by using chat and pings. That’s the job for ANet to give us an option to communicate things like “2 guys on henge” or “retreat”, or “don’t go there”. Now people who have voice communication have great advantage over people, who doesn’t.

l.o.l this guy wants to make me Q up with my guild is frees all night tonight.

Apollo.8367:

l.o.l this guy wants to make me Q up with my guild is frees all night tonight.

I used to advise new players who were struggling to enjoy hotjoin to solo queue frees, but I can’t any more because people actually do this (and because of 4v5 issues). Hopefully, they’re currently being re-designed to have the same format as paids (single match + matchmaking) so that I can once again tell newer players that frees are a good place to find interesting, close matches.

Until then, paids are the best mode for people just starting in PvP. Odd.

Divus.3175:

You know what’s the problem? Afkers and guys, who don’t know how to read chat, don’t want to get any strategy, and doing dumb mistakes.

and also people who never check the map or the group health bars.

So if u are in a pug make sure u dont do any of the above mistakes, its the only thing you can do for the time being and it goes a long way in winning some matches.

Antihero.5429:

When you have 3 longbow hunters fighting a bunker guard at mid for 5min+ only to instantly get burst down by a mesmer/theif, they aren’t going to be having fun and most likely will never set foot in pvp again.

also if you are in a pug dont do that… if u cant kill someone in 3vs1 after a while just leave.. there are another 2 bases to cap and remember that while u fight 3vs1 at the middle your teammates fight 2vs4 somewhere else.
Some decisions are bad whether you are against a premade or not

Shanks R Us.2489:

Sorry, but you run out of tickets if you run paids all day.

tickets are dumb. just get rid of them and add a proper ladder. if you want to gate content do it with a skill based ranking requirement.

Sprawl.3891:

Shanks R Us.2489:

Sorry, but you run out of tickets if you run paids all day.

tickets are dumb. just get rid of them and add a proper ladder. if you want to gate content do it with a skill based ranking requirement.

Agreed.

I don’t actually run paids ALL day, and honestly I haven’t personally ran out – yet. I had over 100 when the 1v1 paid style started, and now I’m probably down to less than 20. But, some of the people I run with are out pretty often, so we run frees. Also, a little map variation is nice.

I really think the system with tickets needs to be reworked. I mean eventually, what I think would work best are simply two differing queues which would be a Solo Queue and Team Queue. Tickets at that point would simply serve to amp up the rewards given out and allow you to qualify for QP.

Tickets need to be optional, and eventually Solo Queue needs to be it’s own thing without any chance of a Team being in it. You should never restrict people from competitive play, and you should make the Solo variation competitive and fun.

Soyboy.3548:

Shanks R Us.2489:

Sorry, but you run out of tickets if you run paids all day.

LOL what about those of us who work 40 hrs a week, go to the gym, and have friends that don’t play video games? Guess we just have to deal with you people who play all day with no job or obligations.

Hate to break it to you. But you have NO ONE else to blame but ANET for this. Match making system is having a harsh time because the population is too low. Until they make Heart of the Mists free, then things such as this will happen no matter what.

You might as well play LoL if you’re working 40 hours a week.

Soyboy.3548:

Shanks R Us.2489:

Sorry, but you run out of tickets if you run paids all day.

LOL what about those of us who work 40 hrs a week, go to the gym, and have friends that don’t play video games? Guess we just have to deal with you people who play all day with no job or obligations.

Now your getting it.

Glad we all understand eachother

/thread

Soyboy.3548:

Shanks R Us.2489:

Sorry, but you run out of tickets if you run paids all day.

LOL what about those of us who work 40 hrs a week, go to the gym, and have friends that don’t play video games? Guess we just have to deal with you people who play all day with no job or obligations.

I work more than 40 hours a week, own a house, have a fiance and dog, go to the gym, run on my spare time when im not at the gym, I clearly have a social life, and pvp enough to run out of paid tickets and have a decent amount of QP’s.

Excuses?

Pointing at the reasons you are casual isnt an excuse to play and learn like a casual. Use your time wisely.

Enferian.2705:

Divus.3175:

You know what’s the problem? Afkers and guys, who don’t know how to read chat, don’t want to get any strategy, and doing dumb mistakes.

and also people who never check the map or the group health bars.

So if u are in a pug make sure u dont do any of the above mistakes, its the only thing you can do for the time being and it goes a long way in winning some matches.

Antihero.5429:

When you have 3 longbow hunters fighting a bunker guard at mid for 5min+ only to instantly get burst down by a mesmer/theif, they aren’t going to be having fun and most likely will never set foot in pvp again.

also if you are in a pug dont do that… if u cant kill someone in 3vs1 after a while just leave.. there are another 2 bases to cap and remember that while u fight 3vs1 at the middle your teammates fight 2vs4 somewhere else.
Some decisions are bad whether you are against a premade or not

You expect people in PUG to know that? No. Playing with your premade or a decent PUG is far from what you will get from average PUG. You know how many times when I queue solo I see three people in my group rush to cap our node and the other one engaging Svanir only to get stomped and get it stolen by enemy invading party? When you PUG you will encounter warriors who cant press anything else than 100 blades button. You will encounter glass cannon elementalists trying to snipe you with their staff skills. You will encounter thieves who apparently got all they keyboard keys bound to Heartseeker. And so on and so forth. Such teams will never win vs. a premade. And such teams needs to be separated from good teams in queues. Becouse it does not matter if you are a gosu gamer or a monkey. You should still get your portion of fun, just on a different level of rewards gained.

Awe.1096:

You expect people in PUG to know that? No. Playing with your premade or a decent PUG is far from what you will get from average PUG. You know how many times when I queue solo I see three people in my group rush to cap our node and the other one engaging Svanir only to get stomped and get it stolen by enemy invading party? When you PUG you will encounter warriors who cant press anything else than 100 blades button. You will encounter glass cannon elementalists trying to snipe you with their staff skills. You will encounter thieves who apparently got all they keyboard keys bound to Heartseeker. And so on and so forth. Such teams will never win vs. a premade. And such teams needs to be separated from good teams in queues. Becouse it does not matter if you are a gosu gamer or a monkey. You should still get your portion of fun, just on a different level of rewards gained.

I know that feeling, I play with pugs too. What you can do is try to educate them. You’re not looking at the subject here. It’s not premade team > not premade team. It’s good team > bad team.

This Thread is pointless, This is basically a threade for those people who are getting pug stomped in free tournies the way to avoid this is to start your own premade. Just with randoms but get them on a voip and that will improve ur chances 10×. To say premades cant enter frees is making it 30x harder to get tickets and people use premades to go into paids so if they have no tickets they cant do paids. This would domino onto the whole pvp system and almost eliminate premades entirely

EaGrimdarK.7849:

I work more than 40 hours a week, own a house, have a fiance and dog, go to the gym, run on my spare time when im not at the gym, I clearly have a social life, and pvp enough to run out of paid tickets and have a decent amount of QP’s.

Excuses?

Pointing at the reasons you are casual isnt an excuse to play and learn like a casual. Use your time wisely.

Customer: “Waiter, I didn’t order vodka, I don’t want to get hammered tonight. I don’t like it. Just a little wine please.”
Waiter: “Well, you should like like vodka! You could like it if you wanted to. It’s an acquired taste. Drink it!”

…it doesn’t matter that casual players could get better if they wanted to. They didn’t order Steep Learning Curve with a side of Ganked. They just want a meaningful match without having to voip. Some are okay with hotjoin, but not all—for obvious reasons.

By the way, a lot of hardcore players also like random vs. random.

Once again, since this thread is quickly deteriorating into casuals and hardcores looking down at each other: change frees to single match with matchmaking, or even just combine frees and paids into “ranked match.” Most people would prefer separating the queues, but the population probably can’t support that yet, nor the “ticket” system.

Antihero.5429:

With paid tourneys costing only 1 ticket per person and having almost zero que time there should be no reason to allow pre made guild/party groups of 4/5 people to enter free tourneys.

Free tourneys should be where people who are beginning to learn conquest mode and people relatively new to spvp play in order to get an idea of what to do since hot join doesn’t really teach much.

Putting new players who are trying out pvp against pre made groups all running the typical cheese stuff like bunker guardian, shatter mesmer, 0-10-0-30-30 ele, etc is detrimental to the game.

When you have 3 longbow hunters fighting a bunker guard at mid for 5min+ only to instantly get burst down by a mesmer/theif, they aren’t going to be having fun and most likely will never set foot in pvp again.

Sorry but no. Tournaments are meant to be group play according to ANet. Meant for PREMADES exactly. So sorry but if you want to pug go play hot join. Don’t come complaining that you met premades in a game mode designed for them.

/eot

Soyboy.3548:

Shanks R Us.2489:

Sorry, but you run out of tickets if you run paids all day.

LOL what about those of us who work 40 hrs a week, go to the gym, and have friends that don’t play video games? Guess we just have to deal with you people who play all day with no job or obligations.

Who are you? Who gives you the right to speak on behalf of others? I work 45-50 hours a week, got girl, got flat, get to do other things and still can play quite a lot.

Speak on your own behalf and not for the rest of people who might disagree with you. Makes you look silly and does not add any weight to your post at all.

It’s always this way, and the arguments are always the same.

At the end of the day, it’s the bad paid teams who join frees — and sure, you’ll get the play with friends excuses, but it always comes down to the same thing: they get farmed in paids, and get a needed ego boost picking on pugs in frees.

The best part? The people who regularly pvp will be the first to complain when the population drops when these premades farm people right out of queueing.

I think it’s great as advice to point out that you can find your own team and do the same thing, but I do not think that is justification to leave the system that way.

There are many people who simply cannot find teams whether it be because of their own time, their social situations, or simply because they think they are significantly better or worse then whomever they have access. Not to mention, there are going to be times that you play the game and your team is not around.

Giving people something reliably competitive to do with ease is one of best solutions I’ve ever seen. Things like the League of Legends solo queue have introduced a phenomenal method of giving people an answer to this problem. Right now you have people who don’t like hotjoin, don’t like the fairness of frees, and lack the tickets or team to play in paids. At least when I’m among my peers guildmates, this makes up a significant portion of whom I talk to.

It’ll take time to get there, but I really think the final solution is to simply have a solo queue and a team queue. With tickets only being used to qualify for QP and amping out the rewards. Artificial restraints on allowing someone to be competitive for whatever the reason be it needing a team or tickets are things that only serve to damper the sPvP population.

Awe.1096:

[…]

Such teams will never win vs. a premade. And such teams needs to be separated from good teams in queues. Becouse it does not matter if you are a gosu gamer or a monkey. You should still get your portion of fun, just on a different level of rewards gained.

Divus said excactly what i wanted to say…
“It’s not a premade team > not premade team.It’s good team > bad team.”

The problem exists… noone argues with that…
Its just that the proposed solution is bad, wont fix anything and will cause even more problems.

As many people said the solution is more complicated.
A ranking system would greatly improve things.

Removing the ticket requirement from paid tournaments and making them all free is still a very good idea.
Then they could separeate the tournamnets in “tier 1” and “tier 2” tournaments. Tier 2 having better rewards and thus attract more competitive players.

What bothers me the most is that while playing in paid tournaments we have to play the same map for a week… it just gets a bit boring and after a while everyone needs a change.
If the devs found a way for maps to rotate more frequently (or perhaps by giving us a choise) then u d see even less premades in free tournaments.

Couple this with a ranking system and… problem solved for everyone… untill new problems arise of course :p

isn’t this what hotjoin is?

Ayestes.1273:

I think it’s great as advice to point out that you can find your own team and do the same thing, but I do not think that is justification to leave the system that way.

There are many people who simply cannot find teams whether it be because of their own time, their social situations, or simply because they think they are significantly better or worse then whomever they have access. Not to mention, there are going to be times that you play the game and your team is not around.

Giving people something reliably competitive to do with ease is one of best solutions I’ve ever seen. Things like the League of Legends solo queue have introduced a phenomenal method of giving people an answer to this problem. Right now you have people who don’t like hotjoin, don’t like the fairness of frees, and lack the tickets or team to play in paids. At least when I’m among my peers guildmates, this makes up a significant portion of whom I talk to.

It’ll take time to get there, but I really think the final solution is to simply have a solo queue and a team queue. With tickets only being used to qualify for QP and amping out the rewards. Artificial restraints on allowing someone to be competitive for whatever the reason be it needing a team or tickets are things that only serve to damper the sPvP population.

This right here. Quoted for emphasis.

Brigg.6189:

isn’t this what hotjoin is?

I think the main thing hotjoin lacks for a lot of people is structure. Not only structured matches where people cannot join and leave as they please, but a competitive structure to win such as rating.

Personally I have no problem with the join and leave as you please part, and would have no problem with hotjoin remaining as it is. For the competitive structure, designing it with rating would do better in a solo queue system as it stands currently.

i can definitely see the reason for this request, why not just have 2 types of frees so solo casual players and guilds can be satisfied

I dont care what system they use as long as it matches you adequately with other players not just rank wise but skill or stat wise as well. And for these 4v5s or 3v5s to be fixed. They should pop others into queue as soon as the the timer hits 0 and person in queue hasn’t joined.

Waiting for 40 minutes each for two failed matched, as a solo queuer is not fun.

Brigg.6189:

isn’t this what hotjoin is?

In theory, but it doesn’t work for a couple of reasons, 1 being the existence of 8v8 diminishing the population of 5v5 to mere duel rooms.

2. As a result of the equip lockdown patch, HJ and tourneys are further divided in gameplay.

3. Free’s encourage winning more, which means playing in line with the format, while HJ currently is very rewarding for derailing on to a Deathmatch zerg.

4. The existence of forced auto-balance degrades the format.

5. Ruins of Capricorn or whatever the map is called.

There’s some more stuff but they’re probably more personal qualms so I’ll shutup about that.

It should be a solo-queue but it’s not really atm. It’s also harder to fill up 8v8 then 5v5 mathematically so including it makes no sense.

I haven’t been facing much pre-mades at all in free’s though tbh, or if I have, I have not noticed. Been reaching Khylo the majority of the time as of late.

I have seen a lot of 3v4’s 4v4’s and 5v4’s even 3v5 and 2v5 (lol wot) however.

Ayestes.1273:

I think it’s great as advice to point out that you can find your own team and do the same thing, but I do not think that is justification to leave the system that way.

It’s so irritating when people pretend that if you don t like being farmed, the alternative is to make a group and farm people instead.

Kellhus.8071:

Ayestes.1273:

I think it’s great as advice to point out that you can find your own team and do the same thing, but I do not think that is justification to leave the system that way.

It’s so irritating when people pretend that if you don t like being farmed, the alternative is to make a group and farm people instead.

There is another alternative: make a group and fight fairly well-matched matches against other groups in paids. But yeah, they should do something about frees.

I’d like the random arena thing to come back from gw(not hot join) even when I unlocked the other arenas I usually had more fun just randomly going into battles which is why I still solo join the frees.
On topic it’s really obvious when you’re fighting a premade who’ve come down from paid to get easier targets.

NevirSayDie.6235:

I think a redesign of free tourneys is already in the works. I would be fine with paids being the only game mode playable by a 5-man team. Honestly, though, just switching frees to the same format as paids—single match with matchmaking—would go a long way to fixing the problem.

Yes to this please

Don’t take anything from existing tournaments. Just create something like 1 v 1 team w/ or w/o chest price. 10 – slots hotjoins could be made that way: you wait for two full teams, get 20 seconds for taking a strategy, and then start a match. It will take not as much time, as waiting for free tournament. Waiting is the pain for all of us.

This should resolve some problems. People will still loose vs good teams, but after some time with ranking system (this invisible one) fights with much better teams won’t be a problem.

Remeber that people don’t play only to win. I don’t like playing vs teams that will loose significantly, like 500 vs 100. Quick example: I have 22. rank, my friends got ranks 15, 27, 33, 5. We’re a pre-made team. If we win vs ranks < 20 with significant point difference, we’re not really happy. If we win vs team with ranks >40, even with huge point difference, we feel that we did great.

Enferian.2705:

Awe.1096:

[…]

Such teams will never win vs. a premade. And such teams needs to be separated from good teams in queues. Becouse it does not matter if you are a gosu gamer or a monkey. You should still get your portion of fun, just on a different level of rewards gained.

Divus said excactly what i wanted to say…
“It’s not a premade team > not premade team.It’s good team > bad team.”

The problem is about build used. I’ve right now lost to a premade around r50 in free running 2 ele guardian and engineer. We had no bunker in team and they simply won because they could camp shrines longer than we could, although we kept killing.

We’ve clearly lost that match because of the build, nothing at all linked to players skill.

I agree with the OP, and I don’t.

I decided to take a look at the tournaments. I’m not a big PvP player, but I wanted to finish my PvP monthly. This requires 3 wins in a tournament.

As the tourny is currently configured, it’s like playing random arena from GW1….except team syncing is a feature (not an exploit). Old school GW players will understand the issue from that example.

The problem is, that the casual player that wants to experience the tournament will typically join a pug. They might get a fair shake by being paired up with another like group of pick up players. After the first round, they are pretty much going to be facing an organized guild farming for tickets and easy wins.

There should be a place for both sets of players. Organized teams should be on a seperate ladder. If this continues, PvP will dwindle and suffer for it.