Guild Wars 2

FOX.3582:

Ah i see what is happening here… This is the “Justin ODell Show”

So so soooo many players here on the pvp forums who had great ideas. In my opinion some of those ideas would have really helped balance the pvp section of this game. But no no no, the only thing you want now is to force feed us the “Justin ODell idea spoon” so you and your team can say “look what we did”…

Want to fix pvp? Listen to your players… Some posted ideas on this forum with scripts and explanations, and it was all for nothing.

You only have to make pvp so that you can go solo (WITH OTHER SOLO PLAYERS), or you go with team (WITH OTHER TEAM MEMBERS).

You really did a great job on the balance issue! But now you want us to cheer, for something that should not have been here in the first place?!

Get a grip and just fix pvp without the show or nonsense…

They do listen to the players, just not players who post insulting comments like this. Post something constructive and maybe Anet will listen.

Working better for me now: we (5) played 6 matches and each one had at least a group of 3 in it, with 2 against premades and one against 4+1

Jak Shadow.2864:

Do you think so? Bit of an over generalisation perhaps? Personally I made quite a few friends in the SoloQ. And I can tell you that I have never met as many abusive, smack-talking, body jumping players as I have in the last few days. Much, much worse than SoloQ.

Perhaps you’re right, I also met SOME nice people there, but on the whole my experience of solo queue was always horrible. Sure there were always a few afkers and smack-talkers in team queue too, but solo queue was always worse.

You don’t like it fine. You don’t have to play it. Those of us who did now have less choice than previously. And I don’t see that “Unranked” offers the same choice at all – still able to get pre-made teams but added to that the potential for lots of people who just don’t care – so even more afk’ing in game or spoofing around generally.

I meant that unranked allows you to test new builds without jeopardising your rating, which is what a lot of team arena players who never played solo arena otherwise used it for.
Clearly if you preferred solo arena there is no real substitute for it in the current system. However, since Justin quintupled the max roster size penalty today, you should be getting matched against other solo players most of the time. If there are enough solo players in the queue (and they’ve said that they far outnumber the teams), you should effectively be playing “solo arena substitute” in most matches. That is, unless all the former solo queue players throw their toys out of the pram and ragequit. Then the player pool of solo queuers will decrease and the matchmaking won’t work as well.

Still don’t see the logic for the merger at all except perhaps there were not enough pre-made teams around to sustain the TeamQ.

That’s not the case at all. Queue times for solo arena were much longer than team arena in recent months, at least on the EU servers. Solo arena was dead! They killed it off BECAUSE it was dead, because it was only populated by a small dedicated hardcore who would flame their teammates if they lost and flame their opponents if they won.

Ouroboros.5076:

Wouldn’t more info actually stop people to report fake problems like “I’ve only faced premades as a solo queuer !” ?

I mean, show us the premade groups, show us the MMR/ranks/leaderboard IN GAME when starting the match. This would drastically lower the false reports that we have here, and avoid you take wrong decisions based on that.

We have the right to see who we are facing. There is nothing secret in this info. By constantly hiding this info you are yourself provoking those reactions. I mean I play Hearthstone and Starcraft a bit on the side, and why I play ranked there I see what rank my opponent has !

Yeah even games like Star Conflict which is primarily a pvp game tells you which people are grouped together. So you would see something like this on the score board:

Player 1 (1)
Player 2 (1)
Player 3 (2)
Player 4 (2)
Player 5

This tells us that there are 2 groups of 2 and a solo player on one team. This will at least give players an idea of if the match is perceived to be off. Of course you can still have a premade of any size just plain suck but the odds are much smaller.

manveruppd.7601:

That’s not the case at all. Queue times for solo arena were much longer than team arena in recent months, at least on the EU servers. Solo arena was dead! They killed it off BECAUSE it was dead, because it was only populated by a small dedicated hardcore who would flame their teammates if they lost and flame their opponents if they won.

I haven’t found the waits that long in SoloQ over the last couple of months – very rare to wait more than a couple of minutes even off-peak. I quite liked the wait time to gather some crafting materials which you could do because no requirement to queue in Mists.

I never saw much complaining about queue times either so ANet are solving a problem that did not exist and replacing it with a genuine issue. Perhaps they will sort the algorithm out to prevent solos getting rolled by premade teams – if not it will cause many folks to pack up their PvP boots.

Well i’ve played pvp all day today (solo) and i actually like the new matchmaking system, it’s not perfect but it feels better than the old system! I have played around 20~ games today (unranked), and my win/lose ratio is 50%.

I’m not very good at pvp but i wouldn’t say i suck either and most of the players i have played with and against feels like they are around my skill level. I have seen some people on the opposing team with the same guildtags and in one match i ended up with four other players who were in the same guild, i have also met 2 other players who were dragon rank (i’m dolyak) and they absolutely slaughtered me.

However, for the most part the teams and matches felt even. Ofcourse i don’t have the data for it but i don’t think the system is as bad as peolpe are making it out to be. Losing or getting destroyed by another team does not necessarily mean they are a premade team, it has happened to me plenty of times in soloQ with the old matchmaking system. I have had more fun in pvp today than i have ever had before and i love the new menu for pvp aswell!

(Sorry if my english is bad.)

5 Games in a row, 500 to 0 or 500 to >100 points. Biggest waste of time. I dunno HOW Anet has their “random” team seletion setup, but it’s straight up HORRIBLE. I…don’t even wanna play. I’m no master of pvp, but I do well enough, but kitten this is so stupid. If this is the future of y’alls pvp, I want no part of it anymore.

DaveGan.8065:

Justin ODell.9517:

I’m really curious as to how you guys are figuring out if the other team is a pre-made. We don’t tell you, and looking at the data there are very few party rosters compared to solo.

Is it just match quality being bad? Are you just recognizing player names?

So I just queued unranked arena match after coming back from work.

Queue pops in 15 seconds (good)
Courtyard, Kyhlo, and Temple. I vote Temple.
…6 votes for Courtyard (gg premade)

See attached screenshot for result

Epic team comp, thanks Obama!
Going off of the PvP titles I saw on teammates/opponents I presume at least MMR was okay.
Only one person on blue got any rank points, and that was because I brought warbanner.

What should be done? Maybe we can start with one or more of these:

• Ensure premades never face non-premades, and perhaps also eliminate a party of 4 from queueing
• Remove Courtyard from the map selection, at least when it is premade vs non-premade
• Give each party exactly one vote (so a party of 4-5 has only one vote for a map)

tl;dr—Matchmaking evidently failed, as it took about 15 seconds to match a solo queue with a premade (or near full premade)

Courtyard + premades spawncamping ensured my 4 teammates got zero rank points for playing.

Eliminate premade vs non-premade, remove Courtyard, or give each party exactly one map vote

LOOOOOOL I WAS IN THAT MATCH

Kinda surprised Ya don’t do what was done in GW1. One area for Team PvP and another for Random Solo. Heck, team people up by their ranking, 1-9(Rabbit), 10-19(Deer), ect… Getting constantly steam rolled by premades and out ranked players is why I left WoW, really don’t wanna see GW2 follow this same path.

That and new players that wanna get a taste for pvp end up getting so badly beaten over and over no matter what, will kill any interest in yalls pvp system.

Edit: Don’t mean to come off as super negative or whatnot. Love the new UI and how it works, just not with how it groups people. lol

Decided to do ranked pvp today and each match I played my team was steamrolled. We stood no chance at all.

Not sure if they were premades or just randoms that communicated well but either way, it was a horrible experience for me. Personally, I’m not interested in playing again until it gets fixed because that wasn’t fun at all.

This game is not fun with the integration of both soloq/teamq

WE NEED SOLO QUEUE

When I first heard about these changes to the matchmaking system I was actually happy since it solves alot of the lower tier soloq problems [some higher tier] (4v5, etc.). The merge to this system only brings us back 2 years when we needed a separation of the 2 systems (soloq/teamq). If the system stays as it is without separation of soloq/teamq, expect a big drop in the population (nobody will soloq, duo, or trio, but it will become a full team vs team fest which will alienate 90% of the current pvp population=look at gw1 [but that game was more balanced])

Since yestarday i had made myself a ranting post (got farmed with total random pug group by a 5 ppl premade choosing Curtyard and campin spawn. UnrankedQ.) but didn’t let it out. Talked instead with my friends in game and we came to conclusion that:

1) : We dont’ want to go back to SoloQ how it was, I totally refuse to accept we getting back to that horror.
Yeah this system require a bit to get greased and couple thing must be reviewed.

2) : Team of 3-4-5 premades must be matched with similar teams, expecially if they come to farm Unranked Que otherwise this is getting completely unfair. Anyway I dont want to go back and being forced to join alone neither joining with a single friend and get rekt by full premade. (and NO I dont want to be forced into get a full 5 team premade as many of you stated at the start of this topic. This is a free World and not all the ppl enjoy that)

3) : Dunno if Dishonor kicked in already but ppl still leave… I had like 5 games in a row with 2-3 vs 5. Please add a /resign command available in such situations. ( from Gw1, e.g. all the ppl in a team can choose to give the win prematurely to the other one ). Will surely make it bearable -.-

4) : Frankly individual MMR should have been reset.

I’m also glad there’s no ladder in UnrankedQ, otherwise i’d have already eaten the face of somebody there <3 (and the rants would be x1000)

I like it when I fight 1v1 and then 2 more jump on me which turn out they all are guild mates.

Congrats to PvP devs.
Punish solo players, and reward team players.

Tao.5096:

Congrats to PvP devs.
Punish solo players, and reward team players.

If we weren’t in 2014, people would embrace that reality and try to find mates to join their effort, make teams, and learn how to win.

In 2014, people just flame devs for “lame design”.

#allisvain.

A lot of really good ideas in the new patch, ready now before match begins, map vote are great.
However, solo vs team is making me no longer want to play either ranked or unranked. Honestly not sure which is worse the constant 4v5’s and skyhammer in the former system or this one.
Bring solo q back pls.

Ouroboros.5076:

Tao.5096:

Congrats to PvP devs.
Punish solo players, and reward team players.

If we weren’t in 2014, people would embrace that reality and try to find mates to join their effort, make teams, and learn how to win.

In 2014, people just flame devs for “lame design”.

#allisvain.

They’re not just ranting, they’re actually quiting. And it isn’t because it became harder but pointless. You’re forced to group and people don’t want to be forced to group. WvW already does that.

The vote map is unfair and the fights are even more so… try to fight against a premade doing focus on courtyard. Yeah, maybe those 5 on premade aren’t that good at rotations or skilled at their classes, but they don’t need any of those things now. They can just group, force a vote on a dm map and farm people. Pretty much the same that zerguing on wvw.

Yesterday my guild chat was all about how bad pvp is now and people not playing it anymore. That was the main topic all day… not questions from newcommers, invitations to do stuff or whatever. Just people complaining about how pvp is broken.

I really hope Arenanet comes to a solution for solo players.

Justin ODell.9517:

I’m really curious as to how you guys are figuring out if the other team is a pre-made. We don’t tell you, and looking at the data there are very few party rosters compared to solo.

Is it just match quality being bad? Are you just recognizing player names?

Well, from my last night experience, I lost 6 times because the same premade team the match system give me, why I know that? because you’ll saw the same name and same guild over and over again so you would know, this is really bad. Also, I had a match with 4 mesmers and a thief in a team, you can really do a better job to a better match making, I don’t mind waiting longer. It’s unranked by the way.

To be honest, all I see here is more and more people jumping in the qq band wagon as soon as they lost a game. What surprises me is that even people that played in a premade cone here to complain.

Really, start getting better instead of complaining.

The problems we have now are infinitely smaller than the ones we had before. I had matches with leavers, but you can’t do anything about that. At least no match started with uneven numbers, which is great.
Courtyard has its problems but the fact that everytime it comes out more than 50% of the votes are for it, it means that people want another game mode badly.
Lol to those saying that courtyard is a zergball. At least crap like turret engis, Hambows and mm necros are terrible there.

I agree with the fact that some people want to soloq without worrying of finding any party in the match, but I was actually surprised of the existence of that in the first place. Games like Dota do not have a mode like that.

Maybe they should increase the research time, so that you get matched with other lone wolves for the first 30s, and if this fails it then proceeds to search for premade groups.

I have a question too.

leaderboards Team Arena = Ranked Arena?
Solo Arena = Unranked Arena?

Roc.6143:

I have a question too.

leaderboards Team Arena = Ranked Arena?
Solo Arena = Unranked Arena?

Ranked Arena = Ranked Arena
Unranked Arena= Unranked Arena.

Darnis.4056:

Roc.6143:

I have a question too.

leaderboards Team Arena = Ranked Arena?
Solo Arena = Unranked Arena?

Ranked Arena = Ranked Arena
Unranked Arena= Unranked Arena.

So leaderboards was gone?

Justin ODell.9517:

I’m really curious as to how you guys are figuring out if the other team is a pre-made. We don’t tell you, and looking at the data there are very few party rosters compared to solo.

Is it just match quality being bad? Are you just recognizing player names?

Right-click on them. If you dont see an option to invite into party – player is in a group. If they are in a group they are queued as a group too (as of Dec 2).

I had a couple extremely one-sided matches. Every time it goes 500-100 I see at least 4 players on the other side in party (either 4man premade or 2+2) while my team is all soloq.

I’ve been in matches before where a full team of solo players annihilated a pre-made guild team. I highly doubt that’s the issue here.

What you have to keep in mind at all times is that a lot of players will do everything in their power to make a match miserable. For example, they will join a match of unranked/ranked arena with absolutely no intention to make any effort beyond securing the few points they need for the match reward.

This is especially easy to notice in hot-join, where players now spectate to trigger auto-balance, volunteer to go back into the team they were just in, and then sit back and enjoy the free win rewards.

If you join a match without some friends, you significantly increase your chances of getting one or more saboteurs on your team. Whether they intend to or not, a vast amount of players bring an enormous disadvantage to the team by behaving exactly the way they shouldn’t:

• Ignoring objectives, or trying to duel enemies in corners furthest from map objectives as possible;
• Attacking anything but the targeted enemy, running in a circle and attacking thin air in the midst of a large fight (probably hoping people don’t notice them);
• Letting fallen allies die a slow and painful death, and not finishing fallen enemies so that they get back up;
• Or simply beelining towards a group of enemies one at a time to ensure their own swift death.

It’s extremely difficult — if not impossible — for the game to detect the intention of a player. You simply cannot expect ArenaNet to prevent these players from being in your team if you decide to go solo, and you can’t blame them for the unpleasant experience players are trying to make of this game. After all, the point is to win, not to have fun, right?

Ouroboros.5076:

Tao.5096:

Congrats to PvP devs.
Punish solo players, and reward team players.

If we weren’t in 2014, people would embrace that reality and try to find mates to join their effort, make teams, and learn how to win.

In 2014, people just flame devs for “lame design”.

#allisvain.

Problem is solo queue and team queue had too very different play styles. Some of us don’t want to play with a premade team for the simple fact we don’t enjoy it. It’s more enjoyable for us to be paired with all random players against all random players, none of this premade team crap that changes the feel of the game.

hihey.1075:

Really, start getting better instead of complaining. ……..
The problems we have now are infinitely smaller than the ones we had before.

You seem to be deliberately missing the point. It is simply not a question of skill (if that is what you mean by better).

There are many people who liked SoloQ and the new system is no substitute. It is less enjoyable, less balanced in many games (not all) and, in my personal recent experience, despite claims to the contrary, full of far more unpleasant players than I was used to encountering previously.

anet always spend a lot of time on trash sysrem.
i was though gw2 pvp can more fun and balance than wow,but i was wrong.
i was camped by team Q

The worst thing about this thread is that developer genuinely asking how we get to know if we facing premade or not.

That means that they are completely out of touch with their own game. The option to know if your teammates/enemies are in the group or not was there since release and was widely known and used by pvp community.

Literally if you follow any tPvP stream for at least 10 minutes you will get to know that.

The game was out for 2 years… I’m facepalming…

Skady.5916:

The worst thing about this thread is that developer genuinely asking how we get to know if we facing premade or not.

That means that they are completely out of touch with their own game. The option to know if your teammates/enemies are in the group or not was there since release and was widely known and used by pvp community.

Literally if you follow any tPvP stream for at least 10 minutes you will get to know that.

The game was out for 2 years… I’m facepalming…

I think the developer showed a record that proved that the perception was wrong that the other team was a premade. He wanted to know what made the complaining person think that it was a premade.

I can’t believe they merged premades with solos. I’m still in a state of disbelief – they actually took two steps back for the first time in a while, maybe ever. After all this time I would expect that Anet would actually listen to their community, especially their PvP base that has stuck with them through thick and thin. Did Anet forget what everyone was asking 2 years ago, when every other thread was about dividing solo queue and team queue? Because of this I have, among others, lost interest in PvP’ing. I was an active PvPer prior to this patch and it is indeed unfortunate and quite sad that they have chosen to do this without even asking the community’s input on it (did they?). I will also make sure to not recommend this game to anyone who happens to ask me about the PvP.

I feel very distraught over this and almost feel bad for all the PvPers who were excited about this patch but were instead slapped in the face with a blast from the past.

It’s no biggie for me though. I don’t hold grudges. I have plenty of other games I can throw my money at. For once in 2 years, it won’t be yours, Anet.

Bumping my thread since this is getting stupid.

The funny part is that it’s on the other end now… People and guilds of very low skill playing together for fun, are ruining other players’ experience. SO many times since HoT, I’ve played vs full premades while with random people, and we massacred them. Some matches ended even 500-0 or something similar… This is not fun. Please, bring back a solo queue.

So, you want 1+1+1+1+1 vs. 1+1+1+1+1 exclusively? And I’m guessing you want it to balance class/spec distribution. Oh, and you want it to balance MMR distribution as well, I’d imagine.

And people playing together, in unranked, for fun, is ruining your hardcore road-to-MLG experience?

Cogbyrn.7283:

So, you want 1+1+1+1+1 vs. 1+1+1+1+1 exclusively? And I’m guessing you want it to balance class/spec distribution. Oh, and you want it to balance MMR distribution as well, I’d imagine.

And people playing together, in unranked, for fun, is ruining your hardcore road-to-MLG experience?

We may guess that Unranked issues will be carried to Ranked, where majority of playerbase may move after ranked season is launched, even if they don’t want to compete just to avoid Skyhammer, little dirty asuras (std character models) and to avoid trolls.

So yeah, I agree with him… however I would like to see Solo/DuoQ as one.

Cogbyrn.7283:

So, you want 1+1+1+1+1 vs. 1+1+1+1+1 exclusively?

Yes.

And I’m guessing you want it to balance class/spec distribution. Oh, and you want it to balance MMR distribution as well, I’d imagine.

No. That would be far too complex if even possible at all. Thing is that the system was SO much better 11 months ago. You didn’t have to worry about getting crushed by exp 5 man premades who use TS and have played 5mil. more matches than you, neither you had to worry about 4 people grouping together playing PvP for the first time.

Cogbyrn.7283:

And people playing together, in unranked, for fun, is ruining your hardcore road-to-MLG experience?

Not hardcoring or anything. I just like to chill and play a couple of serious matches. Its not either hardcore or braindead. Just because I don’t play the game 24/7, it doesn’t mean I can’t stay focused for ~15 mins during the duration of the match. I know what I need to do as a X class and I know the map’s strategy. I just wanna play vs people who are like me (aka. serious solo players). That way matches are fun much more often and in order to play competitive, players do not have to be on TS 24/7 giving orders or shouting things like they are on a star-fleet.

The issue is that if you restrict a queue to 1+1+1+1+1 only, you cause issues. You either need to create a completely new, 3rd queue, that allows any size group of 4 or lower to queue, since a group of 4 would no longer ever be able to queue into a Team Queue without a solo player to fill. Or, you allow solo players to queue in Team Queue, but why would they at that point?

It would further separate the community and most likely increase queue times. Plus, you can’t guarantee that the solo queuers are taking the game seriously until your rank establishes. In Unranked, you’ll never guarantee it.

It could work, of course. I would queue up for solo queues if they existed. But I don’t mind going up against pre-mades, personally.

Cogbyrn.7283:

The issue is that if you restrict a queue to 1+1+1+1+1 only, you cause issues. You either need to create a completely new, 3rd queue, that allows any size group of 4 or lower to queue, since a group of 4 would no longer ever be able to queue into a Team Queue without a solo player to fill. Or, you allow solo players to queue in Team Queue, but why would they at that point?

It would further separate the community and most likely increase queue times. Plus, you can’t guarantee that the solo queuers are taking the game seriously until your rank establishes. In Unranked, you’ll never guarantee it.

It could work, of course. I would queue up for solo queues if they existed. But I don’t mind going up against pre-mades, personally.

Thats why bring back solo q and team q. Simple. We had this before so what are you explaining here?

The issue is the win-rate part of the algorithm.

If you have a win streak it will intentionally match you with crap players – this needs to go.

StickerHappy.8052:

Cogbyrn.7283:

The issue is that if you restrict a queue to 1+1+1+1+1 only, you cause issues. You either need to create a completely new, 3rd queue, that allows any size group of 4 or lower to queue, since a group of 4 would no longer ever be able to queue into a Team Queue without a solo player to fill. Or, you allow solo players to queue in Team Queue, but why would they at that point?

It would further separate the community and most likely increase queue times. Plus, you can’t guarantee that the solo queuers are taking the game seriously until your rank establishes. In Unranked, you’ll never guarantee it.

It could work, of course. I would queue up for solo queues if they existed. But I don’t mind going up against pre-mades, personally.

Thats why bring back solo q and team q. Simple. We had this before so what are you explaining here?

So you can only queue as 1, or you can only queue as (a team of) 5?

EDIT – The forum filter just hit me with a change-up.

Premades of 4+ vs 5 randoms MUST end ASAP.
It’s very very frustrating to get owned without any chance to even get 100 points.

This must work like DotA matchmaking, if one team has premade of 2, they will face another premade of 2.

Am I legitimately the only one who queues solo and doesn’t mind going up against pre-mades?

Cogbyrn.7283:

Am I legitimately the only one who queues solo and doesn’t mind going up against pre-mades?

Nope, you’re not the only one.

Not sure why people hate premades as much as this thread (and others) have shown. I have 0 issues with premades, in fact, I have bigger issues with rookies on my team than something the other team is doing. I will call out anyone who I think is playing bad or try to coach them through the game as best as I can. Usually it’s thieves.

Here’s two games from my Twitch channel. In the first game we went up against the Twelve Disciples guild and won. The second game was solo vs solo and lost by 200 points. We were just unorganized and I didn’t play so well. The other team snowballed the map better than we could.

May want to listen to your own earphones… there’s no sound on this video stream :P

Justin ODell.9517:

Some of these are really hard to make tangible in code.

Stand The Wall.6987:

average knowledge of pvp strategies, rotations, and roles

We can sort of make assumptions about this by looking at rank and rating, but it’s not a direct correlation.

Stand The Wall.6987:

the power of 3rd party communications

This isn’t something we can detect. Even if we could, some teams just communicate better. We definitely want to do things that lessen the gap in this regard, so feel free to start a new thread if you have ideas here.

Stand The Wall.6987:

average player skill

MMR is suppose to correlate with this by gauging your performance over time versus other players.

Stand The Wall.6987:

what a 2 player premade can do

We try to pair like-sized rosters together to compensate for things like this.

Stand The Wall.6987:

a timeline (impossible as of now) of larger premades vs smaller ones

We’re recording the result of all games played under the new system. So, hopefully this data will improve our understanding and give us more ways to test the assumptions we are making.

Stand The Wall.6987:

team composition in a pick up group environment

Team composition (as in roles, etc.) would be nice, but people already don’t like not being able to change character… I think they’d like being locked into a build even less.

Stand The Wall.6987:

what all of these things can do for a team when they are in sync

This is a big one. It might be nice to pair players together in the long run by their performance together over time, but we’re not at a point where we want to try this yet.

Hello. I do think that an in game voip would solve majority of issues here. Communicating cannot be lacking in a real time action game

ReaperJr.5967:

Hello. I do think that an in game voip would solve majority of issues here. Communicating cannot be lacking in a real time action game

I believe good voice command system > in game voice chat, which may be not true for NA, but for sure it’s true for EU, where people speak many different languages and often doesn’t speak english at all.

Morwath.9817:

ReaperJr.5967:

Hello. I do think that an in game voip would solve majority of issues here. Communicating cannot be lacking in a real time action game

I believe good voice command system > in game voice chat, which may be not true for NA, but for sure it’s true for EU, where people speak many different languages and often doesn’t speak english at all.

And that too. We could learn from mobas like dota 2 where you can give warnings and instructions through a command wheel. An in game voip is definitely needed though.

Hey Justin,

I actually have a lot of experience with this issue, and I have some thoughts on fixing it.

First of all, the MMR algorithm works well for the most part. Even against pre made teams of 2 + 2, 3, 4, or five I have regularly won or had close games when I was on a full pug. My understanding is that this works because even though we are going against a premade, they have a substantially lower ranking than we do therefore making it a ‘fair’ match.

The problem arises when you have a premade of 3 or more players, and they have unusually strong synergy with each other. This could be because of their skill level, the professions they are playing, or they are on team speak and communicate extremely well with each other.

Basically, premades stomp when their combined abilities result in a substantially higher level of play than what their score is.

Now, you could increase the weighting for teams in the scoring algorithm. However, I think this has some risks. While there are times when teams synergize very well, other times it’s just a couple friends casually queing over party chat. You don’t want to create a system where you don’t want to que with friends because it will increase your mmr too much and you will go against teams that are too difficult.

So my thought for the best solution would be to create a temporary team score. Basically, when a team ques with 3+ people, give them a temporary score. Once they’ve won two matches in a row, start increasing their team score substantially with each additional win. This way they will climb to a higher MMR much more quickly if they cooperate well, but they will stay where they are if they are having a 50/50 win ratio. This temporary score doesn’t need to be factored into their normal (ie, solo q) MMR scores, it could just be used for team queing.

Obviously it would be nice if this score could be remembered for when those people que as a team the next time around, but that could be a lot of data to save as well as introduce other technical challenges. To prevent people from gaming the system to get a fresh ranking each time by re-creating their party, maybe just save the score for that party for 24 hours.

I think for the most part the algorithm does its job well when people are casually queing with guildies/friends. Where it starts to break down is when a party has unusually good synergy and I would look into technical solutions that can address those parties and step in when they start winning game back to back to back.

I know this is a tricky problem, so thanks for all the hard work!

Zargoon.9835:

Hey Justin,

You have some good thoughts in there, but in case you didn’t notice, this thread is 11 months old at this point. Justin may or may not be the droid you’re looking for.

in the case of hotjoins some players stay in certain rooms playing so they kinda get their own team going without partying over time

Justin ODell.9517:

That does mean we’re ignoring what people are saying about solo vs premade.

ROFL

Freudian slip?

You took away solo Q which is 90% of the player base. You didnt put in voice com to help smooth it out.

GW pvp will be dead in months once rank starts.

Take CS GO for example, hardly seeing anyone complain about pre mades. Their is voice com built in for pugs.

CS GO is popular cause anyone can que and play. Anyone can do good pug or not, climb the ranks. Pvp premade is GW2 is pretty much prob 95% win while cs go, it be about 60%

11 months and ticking, Mr. Personal Failure.

(sorry)

Anything to take a shot at red posts, even if they are 11 months old, eh guys? No one holds a grudge like an MMO community.