Guild Wars 2

Too many get out of jail free cards.

Not the damage, not the mobility. Simply they have way to much damage mitigation in PvP thanks to Signet of Illusions + Continuum split.

They need slight nerf. Not much, just a small CD increase on Continuum and Signet of Illusions and they will be in the perfect spot.

You know signet of illusions does not reset continuum split, right..

I think the cooldowns of elite spells need to be respected, make Mesmers use continuum split for damage/healing/utility combos instead.

Chaith.8256:

You know signet of illusions does not reset continuum split, right..

I think the cooldowns of elite spells need to be respected, make Mesmers use continuum split for damage/healing/utility combos instead.

Fully aware, however continuum does reset signet of illusions, which is almost as bad.

Like I said, small adjustments to mesmer would be sufficient.

I assume you don’t disagree that mesmer Get out of jail free cards are the problem?

Chaith.8256:

You know signet of illusions does not reset continuum split, right..

I think the cooldowns of elite spells need to be respected, make Mesmers use continuum split for damage/healing/utility combos instead.

This ^^ 100% this…imagine if every class could split their elites cds in half

Delete the F5 , then everything will be fine.

or give double skill/cooldown to other class. F5 is a dump skill of design.

Chaith.8256:

You know signet of illusions does not reset continuum split, right..

I think the cooldowns of elite spells need to be respected, make Mesmers use continuum split for damage/healing/utility combos instead.

Exactly, this is the most important change to make on mesmer. After that se can look into things like chronophantasma and such If it turns out to still be op.

The build has a single stun break, zero stability, and zero stealth for target drop.

Try using an interrupt/lockdown power build.

“Your condi spam meta builds have no powa’ here, Grayscrub Stormcrow.”

Ross Biddle.2367:

The build has a single stun break, zero stability, and zero stealth for target drop.

Try using an interrupt/lockdown power build.

“Your condi spam meta builds have no powa’ here, Grayscrub Stormcrow.”

Besides condi spam power mesmer has very few weaknesses. You should try wvw roaming sometime, gives some perspective of what power mesmer can do without fearing conditions.

Yes the mesmer build with a low cd phase retreat, one stunbreaker, random blocks,random evades and distortion is as vulnerable to cc as no other class.

lmao

Novuake.2691:

Besides condi spam power mesmer has very few weaknesses. You should try wvw roaming sometime, gives some perspective of what power mesmer can do without fearing conditions.

Balance around roaming? LMAO

Funny thing is we don’t see much power mesmers in PvP, I’d hardly call it very few weaknesses. Current power mesmer lack the burst to punch through ele and anyone healed by ele, due to fact that decent burst can only be achieved every 10s. More than sufficient time for ele to heal back their allies.

Note this is also assuming that all obvious animations and illusions hit without dying, which is unlikely when you see AoE spam and attacks with blocks/evades. And we’re also ignoring accessible protection, passive procs when health drops below 25% etc.

To top it off power mesmers can easily get eaten alive by meta revs because Shiro and sword skills can track old school “hit and run” power mesmers, part of the reason why thieves are shun out by rev in the past seasons as well. Hence you see every mother of mesmers spec maim the disillusioned and run mercenary because rev can’t handle condition.

Novuake.2691:

Chaith.8256:

You know signet of illusions does not reset continuum split, right..

I think the cooldowns of elite spells need to be respected, make Mesmers use continuum split for damage/healing/utility combos instead.

Fully aware, however continuum does reset signet of illusions, which is almost as bad.

Like I said, small adjustments to mesmer would be sufficient.

I assume you don’t disagree that mesmer Get out of jail free cards are the problem?

Hmm, I don’t think that expressly Mesmer defenses need to be reduced. The state of Mesmer defensives aren’t so broken that you can drop a toughness/vit Amulet and some condi removal. Power Mesmers who get wrecked fast enough can probably attest.

I think if any adjustments were deemed necessary by ArenaNet outside my strong opinion that continuum split shouldn’t interact with Elites, I’d say the condi quantity and duration while running mercenaries is too much.

Given what I’ve seen of Mesmer, I believe ANET has made good decisions with respect to my favorite class.

Mesmer has nothing approaching the sustain or damage of Last Season’s Scrapper, Necro or Ele.

Yes, we have one count them one skill that is strong. Moa is dodgeable, blockable and very obvious with a long cast. If you get hammered with moa it is genuinely deserved.

You’re talking about one of the squishiest classes in the game and claiming it’s unfair that in return we get a strong attack.

In my opinion this truly is a learn to play issue.

Ithilwen.1529:

Given what I’ve seen of Mesmer, I believe ANET has made good decisions with respect to my favorite class.

Mesmer has nothing approaching the sustain or damage of Last Season’s Scrapper, Necro or Ele.

Yes, we have one count them one skill that is strong. Moa is dodgeable, blockable and very obvious with a long cast. If you get hammered with moa it is genuinely deserved.

You’re talking about one of the squishiest classes in the game and claiming it’s unfair that in return we get a strong attack.

In my opinion this truly is a learn to play issue.

Meanwhile high tier mesmers like Helseth agree that Moa was supposed to be nerfed this round. Then again we’ve all seen what your gameplay looks like…

Edit: See 30:45 of this https://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/61631445 to see Lord Helseth Moa’ing an Anet employee.

The personal attack on my gameplay is meaningless.

Helseth is a strong Mesmer. Your statement implies that an Anet employee is by virtue of working at the company a strong player. I dispute that. Your comment isn’t relevant.

As to Moa being “supposed” to be nerfed; Is it possible that paid players are given scripted comments to make?

I maintain that the decisions made are good ones.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Ithilwen.1529:

Given what I’ve seen of Mesmer, I believe ANET has made good decisions with respect to my favorite class.

Mesmer has nothing approaching the sustain or damage of Last Season’s Scrapper, Necro or Ele.

Yes, we have one count them one skill that is strong. Moa is dodgeable, blockable and very obvious with a long cast. If you get hammered with moa it is genuinely deserved.

You’re talking about one of the squishiest classes in the game and claiming it’s unfair that in return we get a strong attack.

In my opinion this truly is a learn to play issue.

Meanwhile high tier mesmers like Helseth agree that Moa was supposed to be nerfed this round. Then again we’ve all seen what your gameplay looks like…

Edit: See 30:45 of this https://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/61631445 to see Lord Helseth Moa’ing an Anet employee.

If we take Helseth’s every word as gospel, then scepter clone torment spam was to become, and still is the doomsday meta all mesmers will be running since torment was added to the AA.

Funny how that one turned out XD Rofl

Novuake.2691:

You should try wvw roaming sometime, gives some perspective of what power mesmer can do without fearing conditions.

Roaming in WvW is irrelevant, pretty much everything is ridiculous, 14k backstabs, blowtorch on engy burning build that will do over 35k damage from one button press (nothing to fear there), etc…

Personally I would prefer them to remove continuum split and instead add more alacrity/quickness to the chrono line. Alacrity with good investment to get 100% uptime thus giving you more of a flat 25% reduction on cool downs is perfectly strong for an elite spec especially sharing that alacrity.

I’d also like that mentality applied to all other elite specs where they offer things you can’t get in other lines but don’t outright make them the default choice like current elite specs feel like.

P.S. To the guy that says about roaming in WvW without fearing conditions. What have you been playing for the last few months? Half the builds you come across have condition damage as their main source, others have high durations of control conditions too which can be just as deadly.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Novuake.2691:

Besides condi spam power mesmer has very few weaknesses. You should try wvw roaming sometime, gives some perspective of what power mesmer can do without fearing conditions.

Balance around roaming? LMAO

Funny thing is we don’t see much power mesmers in PvP, I’d hardly call it very few weaknesses. Current power mesmer lack the burst to punch through ele and anyone healed by ele, due to fact that decent burst can only be achieved every 10s. More than sufficient time for ele to heal back their allies.

Note this is also assuming that all obvious animations and illusions hit without dying, which is unlikely when you see AoE spam and attacks with blocks/evades. And we’re also ignoring accessible protection, passive procs when health drops below 25% etc.

To top it off power mesmers can easily get eaten alive by meta revs because Shiro and sword skills can track old school “hit and run” power mesmers, part of the reason why thieves are shun out by rev in the past seasons as well. Hence you see every mother of mesmers spec maim the disillusioned and run mercenary because rev can’t handle condition.

I completely disagree.
Power mesmer is one of the few things that can deal with ele sustain and tankyness at this point just by virtue of boon strip and cc chains alone.
The point behind my roaming comment was that mesmers are not forced to deal with so many condition users, which means they can rely on their very good forms of damage mitigation without needing to go inspiration for that much condi cleanse.
If you were to give mesmer more condi cleanse tied to dueling, domination, chaos or even illusions staff and sword/shielf could make a vey strong resurgence.
Hell i would even support those changes if mesmer actice defences were adjusted.
Ad mentioned the major issue with these defences is how frequently they can be use when used witj signet of illusions and continuum split.

So I haven’t played GW2 seriously since December, only occasionally logging in, and I haven’t logged in since the first or second week of season 2. I think I made it to emerald, but I can’t remember, thats how much my interest in this game has waned!

So I’m just wondering, what event made people realize that mesmers were still so good? I thought that everyone was afraid that mesmer/chrono was overrnerfed after their cele-bunker meta literally ruined the first pro league by making the matches decided by whoever gets 2 caps first.

So what happened to bring them back from life support? Was it helseth? Was it new amulets for condi builds? Was it some player I’ve never heard of on a team I’ve never heard of? I’m just genuinely interested since it seemed like mesmers were out after the bunker meta.

Chase.2798:

Chaith.8256:

You know signet of illusions does not reset continuum split, right..

I think the cooldowns of elite spells need to be respected, make Mesmers use continuum split for damage/healing/utility combos instead.

This ^^ 100% this…imagine if every class could split their elites cds in half

Actually more cause alacrity

Novuake.2691:

I completely disagree.
Power mesmer is one of the few things that can deal with ele sustain and tankyness at this point just by virtue of boon strip and cc chains alone.
The point behind my roaming comment was that mesmers are not forced to deal with so many condition users, which means they can rely on their very good forms of damage mitigation without needing to go inspiration for that much condi cleanse.
If you were to give mesmer more condi cleanse tied to dueling, domination, chaos or even illusions staff and sword/shielf could make a vey strong resurgence.
Hell i would even support those changes if mesmer actice defences were adjusted.
Ad mentioned the major issue with these defences is how frequently they can be use when used witj signet of illusions and continuum split.

Don’t know which WvW do you play, but Signet of Illusions is hardly taken in WvW, typical power burst mesmers are only good at ganking careless people but fail miserably against tanky builds or condi builds, and condis are actually the biggest thread, so that “mesmers are not force to deal with condis” is totally false.

Ross Biddle.2367:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Ithilwen.1529:

Given what I’ve seen of Mesmer, I believe ANET has made good decisions with respect to my favorite class.

Mesmer has nothing approaching the sustain or damage of Last Season’s Scrapper, Necro or Ele.

Yes, we have one count them one skill that is strong. Moa is dodgeable, blockable and very obvious with a long cast. If you get hammered with moa it is genuinely deserved.

You’re talking about one of the squishiest classes in the game and claiming it’s unfair that in return we get a strong attack.

In my opinion this truly is a learn to play issue.

Meanwhile high tier mesmers like Helseth agree that Moa was supposed to be nerfed this round. Then again we’ve all seen what your gameplay looks like…

Edit: See 30:45 of this https://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/61631445 to see Lord Helseth Moa’ing an Anet employee.

If we take Helseth’s every word as gospel, then scepter clone torment spam was to become, and still is the doomsday meta all mesmers will be running since torment was added to the AA.

Funny how that one turned out XD Rofl

Helseth campaigned against torment on scepter auto and they nerfed it before patch was released.

Elites + Csplit is honestly the only real problem. Mesmer is strong in 1v1, but relatively weak in teamfights outside of moa+csplit. So decoupling elites from csplit would narrow the mesmer’s role in games.

Most everything else is a L2P issue. The mesmer’s “get out of jail free” cards are all based on tempo, which you can interrupt. For example, the mesmer relies heavily on shield-blocks and blurred frenzy to buy enough time for other defensive skills and shatters to come off CD. If you disrupt the chain, you can shut down the mesmer. And many classes have the skills to disrupt this chain: necro staff5, DH F1, engie slick shoes, ele shocking aura, rev shiro port + staff5, thief basi venom, druid smokescale knockdown.

The “get out of jail free” cards you’re thinking of can all be counterplayed. You can interrupt signet of illusion (which has one of the longest cast times of any skill in the game, at 1.25 seconds). If he’s covering with distortion, then that means he’s been saving that skill the whole fight up until this point, which means you were bad at applying pressure. You can counterplay Csplit because you know where the mesmer will be when the timer runs out, so you can position yourself to put down a lot of burst right then. Or just take advantage of the Csplit to neut the point (mesmer can’t contest in Csplit).

If you try to beat a mesmer through attrition, it will take forever. If you’re thoughtful about skill usage, you can down a mesmer quickly in a +1 situation, and you can probably down most of the average mesmers in 1v1s, too.

Zelda.6325:

Ross Biddle.2367:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Ithilwen.1529:

Given what I’ve seen of Mesmer, I believe ANET has made good decisions with respect to my favorite class.

Mesmer has nothing approaching the sustain or damage of Last Season’s Scrapper, Necro or Ele.

Yes, we have one count them one skill that is strong. Moa is dodgeable, blockable and very obvious with a long cast. If you get hammered with moa it is genuinely deserved.

You’re talking about one of the squishiest classes in the game and claiming it’s unfair that in return we get a strong attack.

In my opinion this truly is a learn to play issue.

Meanwhile high tier mesmers like Helseth agree that Moa was supposed to be nerfed this round. Then again we’ve all seen what your gameplay looks like…

Edit: See 30:45 of this https://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/61631445 to see Lord Helseth Moa’ing an Anet employee.

If we take Helseth’s every word as gospel, then scepter clone torment spam was to become, and still is the doomsday meta all mesmers will be running since torment was added to the AA.

Funny how that one turned out XD Rofl

Helseth campaigned against torment on scepter auto and they nerfed it before patch was released.

The clones got it, and it was the clones he cried about in this particular instance.

It was an unforgettable 45 minute tear filled rant. It’s ok, plenty of us actually remember.

Ithilwen.1529:

The personal attack on my gameplay is meaningless.

Helseth is a strong Mesmer. Your statement implies that an Anet employee is by virtue of working at the company a strong player. I dispute that. Your comment isn’t relevant.

As to Moa being “supposed” to be nerfed; Is it possible that paid players are given scripted comments to make?

I maintain that the decisions made are good ones.

I never put anywhere that the Anet employee is good lol? In fact, I have not met one remotely skilled. I mentioned that because Helseth literally stops mid fight after the Moa, and types “YOU COULD HAVE NERFED THIS BUT DECIDED NOT TO”.

Oh man scripted comments, now we’re in conspiracy land.

I mentioned your gameplay because that is your point of view. And it is not a valuable one when it comes to balancing this game. I for one would like to see Moa Confusion Torment bot gone and Power Shatter Mesmer make a return.

Chaith.8256:

I think the cooldowns of elite spells need to be respected, make Mesmers use continuum split for damage/healing/utility combos instead.

+1

ResJudicator.7916:

Elites + Csplit is honestly the only real problem. Mesmer is strong in 1v1, but relatively weak in teamfights outside of moa+csplit. So decoupling elites from csplit would narrow the mesmer’s role in games.

Most everything else is a L2P issue. The mesmer’s “get out of jail free” cards are all based on tempo, which you can interrupt. For example, the mesmer relies heavily on shield-blocks and blurred frenzy to buy enough time for other defensive skills and shatters to come off CD. If you disrupt the chain, you can shut down the mesmer. And many classes have the skills to disrupt this chain: necro staff5, DH F1, engie slick shoes, ele shocking aura, rev shiro port + staff5, thief basi venom, druid smokescale knockdown.

The “get out of jail free” cards you’re thinking of can all be counterplayed. You can interrupt signet of illusion (which has one of the longest cast times of any skill in the game, at 1.25 seconds). If he’s covering with distortion, then that means he’s been saving that skill the whole fight up until this point, which means you were bad at applying pressure. You can counterplay Csplit because you know where the mesmer will be when the timer runs out, so you can position yourself to put down a lot of burst right then. Or just take advantage of the Csplit to neut the point (mesmer can’t contest in Csplit).

If you try to beat a mesmer through attrition, it will take forever. If you’re thoughtful about skill usage, you can down a mesmer quickly in a +1 situation, and you can probably down most of the average mesmers in 1v1s, too.

Most sensible post, well written.

In addition, without these “get out of jail free cards”, mesmer can still be killed very fast, regardless of build. You cannot facetank damage on a mesmer, you need to use get out of jail free cards to stay alive.

The only single thing that needs changing is preventing CSplit on Elite skills. That’s it.