Guild Wars 2

This is one of the worst ideas imaginable.

Let me get this straight, it looks good on paper, but only on paper. Not being able to adapt to swap to what your team needs before a match will make many matchups in matchmaking that could be balanced and great an absolute disaster.

Preventing swap during a match is enough. Preventing swap during a match will mean that the system has to know how to make balanced compositions and since the devs did not seem to consult high level players/esl players on what that is I don’t trust them.

If that’s not enough it will increase queue times.

Obviously, this was done because of the “Class stacking issue”. THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE. Stacking no class makes your composition stronger these days. Having too many warriors will make you lose to a single DH on the enemy team. Having too many DHs will make you lose to a ranger. And so on. A balanced team composition is much stronger these days.

This cannot go through. It’s bad.

Edit: The worst part is, since there are no mid-season updates EVER (which needs its own topic to why that’s bad apart from this), This disaster won’t even be fixed till season 7!! Save season 6 guys.

think can be a good idea, but needs something else: build managing tool
that + build managing tool can solve the only one build for class problem, cuz people have to get creative to adapt to the matchup and the teoricrafters will resurrect seconndary role builds for classes now parked by the “ideal team” composition thing

i don’t think it’s a good idea at all…
It’s the team’s work to think about the composition to win vs an another… If people have more than half a brain they can relog with an another class that will be more useful to the team.

Problems that will happened with this system :

- differents class : guard, ranger, elementalist, … can have the same purpose (tank, heal) / what will happened if there is 3 tank in a team ? a lose ? i don’t think this system will analyse every player’s build to make a good team…
- if i play with my revenant and i’m versus condition, i can’t relog so i’ll die and die and die and be useless.
- it will make 2 similar team and it’s boring to play versus a similar team
- a class can be played with more than 1 build you know… Making a matchmaking using the class is not good…

And adding time to the matchmaking whereas a relog could be enough, it is sad…

Your game can’t even keep up to date with the recommended builds in the PvP panel.

What the heck makes you think it can keep it up to date with what a balanced team comp is?

What if someone multiclasses and sees, oh. Our team can really benefit from an ele, the other team has a lot of DPS, but then BAM. TOO BAD. SUCKS TO BE YOU. YOU’RE ALL STUCK WITH THAT TEAM. GG. Make the best you can out of it losers.

I say no. Players should be allowed to adjust their comps on their own, instead of relying on the Matchmaking system to hold their hand.

That being said, the matchmaking system will also not allow for exceptions, such as people that are incredibly good at a specific class and can fill multiple roles. Itll just chuck them in the long queues as well.

I know the majority of people are going to say “yes, disallow class stacking people are too lazy to switch” and that is indeed the case, but I don’t think that forcing someone to play a class, regardless of what they’re up against, is exactly going to help matters.

IF it turns out Yes wins… Please make sure that classes are distrubted evenly among the teams. No team should have two eles…

Is there a possibility if the Yes win, for us to try it on Season 6 and then have a poll to see if it stay or not?

Great, except matchmaking times increase. Advertise your game more. Advertise PvP more. Make PvP community less toxic.

From a dude who made the leaderboard on NA.

ANET PLEASE LOOK AT CHARACTERS BUILDS PRE QUEUE AND STRUCTURE TEAMS WITH 2 BUNKS AND 3 DPS.

Nothing is more disheartening than being on a team with 3/4 bunks and 1/2 dps. Also bad is 4/5 dps on a team. Please make it so double thief teams are at least different builds (ie. 1 staff, 1 d/p).

Please rate player performance on the role they are trying to fulfill.

Please give stats to players who capture map specific buffs/skyhammer/lord kills/beast kills.

Please to not mix bronze and silver ranked players in gold/plat/leg level play. PLEAAAAASSSEEEEEEEE. Rating should be based on skill level obtained by profession. If you are going to lock professions then the leaderboards should contain character names not account names.

Locking professions at this point may be worthwhile if only to prevent players who start on a thief, feed the enemy 4-5 times then switch (leaving game for 1 min 30 secs (just under desertion time limit)) then feeding the enemy again on a class they have not properly set up or know how to play.

I have seen games where a character switch can save the team because the enemy has too many counters to that class. It is rare but can be effective when done by a skilled multiclasser. This can happen midgame rather than at the start because the enemies builds are not known from the start. But generally what happens is mentioned above.

Will this prevent going to character screen and selecting the same character to die quickly and avoid a bleedout?

Not allowing character switch in unranked for pvp dailies is another offensive in the war against single classers.

I like the idea of locking classes, but what would be nice is if there was a functional “saved builds” button, so that people didn’t have to frantically try to change the build of their selected class to try to make up for some team composition deficiency.

For example, a healing Druid might want to change to a power or condition build if there are say two tempests on the team.

From the sounds of it, you’re not locking builds, but the countdown timer isn’t enough to get a feel for how everyone else is built and adjust yourself accordingly.

Being able to quickly cycle through a couple builds by clicking a button would alleviate some of the frustration this might cause.

Plus it has been a quality of life suggestion since GW2 was launched and other game modes could take advantage of it.

Please lock professions once they click Q and use profession MMR

Start with 5 diff class per team (5 diff classes) and as Q times increase go to 2 (4 diff classes with one of the classes being a double). If MM still cant get a team make it 3 diff classes with 2 duos classes and a 3rd class. Never allow 3 of any class in a team.

No, I’m a necro main. If I go into a match and see 2 warriors, a thief, a Mesmer, and a guardian on the other team I want to have the option to switch off to something that isn’t going to be a free kill the entire match.

Profession locking makes niche builds and classes unplayable.

If profession locking goes through, I will be forced into perpetually playing warrior, since necro is too situational to queue with in a locked queue.

This is a terrible idea. Multiclassing and counter-comping should be encouraged, not discouraged. If build diversity was good enough that each profession had a variety of builds and roles viable at higher tiers this might be considered, but we’ve a very far cry away from that. Until that happens you’d be forced to have the matchmaking system curate teams by distributing a certain number of each role/build type to each, which would probably be a nightmare to code, or forcing players into some terrible matches that were 90% decided at the start thanks to bad comp rolls.

Sins.4782:

which would probably be a nightmare to code, or forcing players into some terrible matches that were 90% decided at the start thanks to bad comp rolls.

This.

Under locked class, Warrior, Guardian, and ranger would be the only classes you’d want to queue on because those are the only classes that don’t get completely screwed over by certain comps.

mrauls.6519:

IF it turns out Yes wins… Please make sure that classes are distrubted evenly among the teams. No team should have two eles…

Already fixed, the new code will balance the professions to the other team now you can see this updated on matchmaking page on wiki. It will also repool players if 3 of the same class ends on the same team and more.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

Crinn.7864:

Sins.4782:

which would probably be a nightmare to code, or forcing players into some terrible matches that were 90% decided at the start thanks to bad comp rolls.

This.

Under locked class, Warrior, Guardian, and ranger would be the only classes you’d want to queue on because those are the only classes that don’t get completely screwed over by certain comps.

Exactly that. The system would ironically motivate people to wana queue as guardians, rangers and warriors, classes that have less counters, while purporting to wana decrease the presence of these very classes. So what you would get is people running more selfish, self sufficient builds and professions so as to not be frustrated by bad comps yet be punished for it with larger queue times, which, if you also implement a cut off point, might lead you to get class stacks anyway.

It’s almost funny in a diabolical way.

Doing this could actually theoretically increase build diversity.

Because class swapping would be locked, it would force players to try and come up with more than just one build to suit different situations, allowing for build options to open up. It would encourage people to run more than just one build. Instead of swapping classes completely, players could run a different build to better suit the team’s needs instead.

Either that or everyone runs guardian.

Hello,
in my opinions the bad things outweigth the good ones by far.

If you lock players to their classes/builds while they queue and in the starting time you absolutly have to make sure there is a super good algorythm that uses the data of builds/traits/amulets/classes etc to create balanced teams because players will no longer be able to adapt to the failure of the algorythm.
Either you develop a good algorythm or at least let players mark builds with a rating system what they and their builds can do like:

Examplebuild:
Direct Damage 2 of 3 points
Condition Damamge 1 of 3 points
Sustain 2 of 3 points
Mobility 1 of 3 points
Support 2 of 3 points

But the creation of an algorythm that uses the data in good way is in my opinion still wasted time for the benefit it might bring and i would rather see the developement time put in something else.

Now porbably a even more important thing:
Please decide for yourself if you want this to be Team-game or a Solo-Game and if you want a (semi)-competetive scene or a more casual form of PvP.

If you want a Team-Game then its actually job of the team to run some form of balanced comp or to find one. A good start would be to increse the preparationtime to maybe 3-5mins. To push for teams in rated, maybe only teams in rated, some form of encouragement for teams like +10% reward track progress per greup-member etc.

If this should go more in a Solo-Casual direction, rework the game mode to be less team-dependend.

Yes, but matchups NEED to be made more even. Counters can still exist but has to be less significant.

So much whining going on it’s laughable, let’s look at what this will do to benefit players.

• increase matcmaker accuracy- so many players cried (some people posting in this thread that are against the lock out at queue) about matchmaker S5 how it was inaccurate guess what this will help fix that.
• will highlight overused/overtuned and Unterused/undermined classes for the game mode. – could lead to Devs looking into why those classes are taken so much, would be best if tied with Anti-class stacking implemented
• will make players think about what they queue on.

Let’s look at the bad.

• Increased Queue times – not that bad of a trade off for better Matchmaking.
• can’t counter comp. -which isn’t to big of an issue especially if they implement anti class stacking.

Also if players cared so much about coordinating their comps and so on they wouldn’t have voted team queue out of the Ranked game mode, just saying.

The only way locking class matchmaking on queue could work would be if the system were to choose an optimal team compositions for us, and THAT’s not going to happen, I’m pretty sure of it.

well if they lock professions lets hope they balance them too.
fingers crossed, eyes closed.

Anyone remember when they made it so you couldn’t change build mid match? Not that it matters with the lack of diversity, but this was easily circumvented by just having an alt with a different setup.

If they implement this change it might be good to unlock traits and skills, this could build diversity and give at least give some options to unfavourable situations.

It’s been so many years now, add templates too plz!

I believe the poll is unfairly worded. It would be best if it explained that allowing it to say YES allows new features such as rating being per class, allowing you to have separate rankings on classes that you aren’t experienced with.

Where as right now, if you queue ranked you do it with your best class. Swapping to another class would likely harm your rating as you are not as experienced.

So you feel trapped, always having to play a single class in order to win because you can’t play another class up to par with your current rating.

I believe you would get far more “YES” selections if you re-do this poll highlighting this.

I don’t have anything against switching during the 90 seconds.
Was wondering with the yes option it says attempting to switch will not allow re etrance. Does that mean it will be 4v5 if a person does attempt? Maybe if it only allows them to select the character they were in the match with in character selection if the match is still on?

Sinmir.6504:

Was wondering with the yes option it says attempting to switch will not allow re etrance. Does that mean it will be 4v5 if a person does attempt?

this would be a match throwers wet dream, unless a replacement could be found asap.

Rickster.8752:

This is a terrible idea but I still voted yes because at least its a change.

It is a bad idea because it leads to more bad feeling in games with things like 3x necro or 3x thief comps which are not fun to fight with or against.

Secondly, you are the designers. It is literally your job to make these decisions. You have the experience not us.

Escapes all logic. How do you vote yes while you think it’s a terrible idea. This is why we can’t have nice things!

I voted no – I don’t want to suffer for yet another season.

Good idea, terrible poll.
First thing you need to remove is the class daily win. It’s completely and utterly pointless and causes needless classes to be over represented when their daily is up. Just make it into daily win. This from the start removes part of the problem.

Second thing is fix the match making system. Make it 2 max of the same class to be put on same team, and even that only to be allowed when there’s no other people of similar mmr and of other class queued at the given moment.

Third thing, make teams after all 10 players agree on the match (I think some dev here on forum said they will look into this recently). Create teams only when everyone is pilled up – their rankings averages same on both teams, and equal number of 2-man teams on both sides.

This poll seems like healing, when it should be prevention.

I’ve read through the new matchmaking algorithm and with the new weighting toward balancing professions across teams, I can definitely see where this is coming from. If the algorithm works to match up professions, players swapping out will throw a wrench into what it’s come up with, devaluing the matchups it creates.

As it is, though, players swapping classes is primarily a way that they compensate for the failings of the matchmaking algorithm. By removing that option, you’re essentially asking us to take it on faith that the matchmaking algorithm is going to spit out reasonable matches. If the community really trusted that to be the case, I think this would be much less controversial. That trust won’t happen until we see the new matchmaking algorithm actually and consistently producing good matches, and we haven’t really had time to see that yet.

Profession-specific MMR is a good thing, though. There’s not much to argue with on that count. Better matchmaking also means more accurate MMR scores, which in turn means even better matchmaking.

I’m not completely sold on the algorithm as it is, though, assuming the wiki article is an accurate representation of the code. For example, why isn’t there a second pass? Once you have ten participants selected, why not double check that your teams are the best matched they could be across those ten participants? A simple rating of each team based on MMR and profession diversity, then a quick check to see if there’s any way to shuffle those ten players around to better equalize the teams’ scores. It’s strange to me that there’s nothing there to check the chaos theory.

Either way, unless you’ve got the metrics, testing, and/or the overall player exposure to demonstrate that the algorithm does what it hopes to, I don’t know how much sense it makes to take away the safeguard that is class switching. But if the algorithm really does work, there are a lot of excellent benefits to doing so.

Well it looks like this one is swinging to the No side, which I like. Between when I first saw it and now, No has gained another 15% of the vote, bringing it to an almost tie.

alchemyst.2165:

Because class swapping would be locked, it would force players to try and come up with more than just one build to suit different situations, allowing for build options to open up. It would encourage people to run more than just one build. Instead of swapping classes completely, players could run a different build to better suit the team’s needs instead.

No what would happen is players would look for the most self-sufficient build with the last amount of clear counters, and just always queue on that.

Locked class removes niche use builds because they are too comp sensitive. For example necro particularly condi necro would go extinct because it’s way to comp sensitive to work under a locked queue.

I understand the intent clearly, but if this passes, some teams will lose matches based on their comp before the match even begins, and not be able to do a thing about it.

Nothing kills competitive spirit like not being able to influence the outcome of the match.

The ideal would be allowing swapping up till match start, disallowing after start, and hiding the enemy comp until match start.

Changed my vote to no. Profession lock would be great if there’s no profession stacking. Otherwise its a stupid idea.

eta: worse if they allow premades as the person below me said.

I want to have control over the outcome of a match, I want my side to have the advantage and I don’t ever want to lose.

That’s why I vote no, because I want freedom and control and I want to be able to manipulate the match in my favour. Anyone who says my way of thinking is wrong,
doesn’t play pvp to win.

I think matches should be locked after the warming up phase, but I don’t think we should be stuck during the warming up phase. Because THAT time is the time you are supposed spend preparing and getting ready for a match, including getting your team ready. If you lock it, get rid of the warm up time or allow premade teams, and stop wasting my time.

I just have to reiterate, locking professions is possible and might even be preferable if we are able to build custom templates. Otherwise, people will rage, instead of getting two thfs, will rage about that ele playing fresh air instead of meta or the condi necro who is an easy kill for the enemy thf.

If i had the option to queue as dh, be locked into that profession, but after seeing my team comp and noticing we have no support, i can then press one button to change my build to a support spec, i would be a lot calmer about this poll.

The ability to adjust team composition to give one’s side a better chance of winning is a part of this game’s strategy. Without it, players are at the mercy of the matchmaking system even more than they already are. In order to mitigate this, you’d have to diminish the impact of counters, which means profession homogenization, which is bad. This game encourages you at every level to make and play alts. Why discourage employing the fruits of that?

What would be the point of this? “Class-stacking” isn’t a rational tactic anyone pursues; it’s a flaw in the matchmaking system. Having too may of one type on your team is typically a negative and people swap precisely to avoid this. Sure, it was a problem back when d/d cele ele was rolling everyone, but despite the complaints, balance has been a lot better since those days.

Measures to restrict team balancing by profession also assume either a complex algorithm that can scan your stats/traits and decide what it is you do, or it means remaining committed to the idea of every profession having only one viable role, which would seem to run counter to the theory of future elite specs (or is ele going to have another support spec and necro going to have another poor-out-the-damage-then-die spec, etc?).

This is a very bad change. 53% are voting yes with 46% voting no. You may get a majority win but you will make half of your player base mad. Perhaps the devs should consider not approving this change unless there is a super majority like 75% percent for and 25% against!!!!

Crinn.7864:

alchemyst.2165:

Because class swapping would be locked, it would force players to try and come up with more than just one build to suit different situations, allowing for build options to open up. It would encourage people to run more than just one build. Instead of swapping classes completely, players could run a different build to better suit the team’s needs instead.

No what would happen is players would look for the most self-sufficient build with the last amount of clear counters, and just always queue on that.

Locked class removes niche use builds because they are too comp sensitive. For example necro particularly condi necro would go extinct because it’s way to comp sensitive to work under a locked queue.

first- niche or high specialized or comp sensitive builds they will be not the primary choice queuing in solo q
second- class locking have to come with the build managing system or will be a big fail, you can adapt to team comp and enemy comp changing builds.
third-locking classes should come whith a change of mentality of playerbase, generic metabuilds are not obligatory and in some cases are bad choices a theoretically subpar build(in opinion of metacreators) can do better job in certain comp situations.

I would just be worried about the queue times for people playing certain popular classes. Especially if they go with the class limits per team, guards and warrs would have insane queue times then. Yeah you can say lul time to learn a new class, but tbh I’d rather have them play what they’re good at, than queue on something they’re sub par at to get better queue times.

I personally enjoy class switching myself, it lets you adapt as others have said and adjust to the enemy team comp.

crunchyraisin.6054:

The ideal would be allowing swapping up till match start, disallowing after start, and hiding the enemy comp until match start.

I like this. might be the best way to go about it.

I am going to fervently say no on this one. All this change will do is make matches much more lopsided as comp often does become the deciding factor when teams are balanced skill wise. What will happen is that teams will frequently get stuck with either no damage, or no support, be unable to fix their comp problems, and then get wrecked against a superior balanced comp.

This will result in professions with clearly defined strengths and weaknesses such as ele, rev, thief, necro, being phased out in favor of even more since they can’t count on their team being able to cover their weaknesses. Then dragon hunters, scrappers, and warriors which do well in most situations will become even more popular. If balance changes are made, to make classes that depend on their comp stronger in a poor comp, then it will just make them op when their comp is good especially in premade teams.

Poll makes no sense it’s basically a symptom to attempt a fix on the balance of the game without actually addressing it… there should be no issues stacking teams if things actually had balance on here.

Take a look at the game build June 2015 trait revamp and essentially major game changes for the fix to balance basically everything done in there gave us what we got now….. it will basically make this poll moot. However, make it yes to people NOT changing after timer.. no reason people need to swap after game when teams are prepared before hand.. odd this was even made possible.

Why are so many morons voting yes?

Just when I thought you guys were moving in the right direction with S5 you guys pull this.

The majority of the playerbase is BAD at pvp. They can only play ONE CLASS and likely ONE BUILD. They are extremely biased and prefer this poll to be yes.

At the higher levels people multi class and realize what needs to be swapped to make their team viable (eg. 3 necro = bad with no ele, 2 nec + 1 ele at least sorta ok).

crunchyraisin.6054:

I understand the intent clearly, but if this passes, some teams will lose matches based on their comp before the match even begins, and not be able to do a thing about it.

Nothing kills competitive spirit like not being able to influence the outcome of the match.

The ideal would be allowing swapping up till match start, disallowing after start, and hiding the enemy comp until match start.

I can’t take this anymore.

Is there a SINGLE worker at Anet making these calls/decisions who placed at platinum? I need to know. This is just a terrible idea on so many different levels.

Sure the plebs who play 1 build and don’t even try to plan and strategize will be perfectly happy with it. They just run mid on one build and blame stacked teams/premades/meta of the month builds when they lose.

But anyone who actually cares about the game, tries in it, wants to improve, wants to see the game succeed understands just how terrible this idea is.

You are literally removing power from the player to control their own teams…for what? We can’t even make our own premade teams anymore? How we can’t even swap classes? Are you guys trying to kill the game? Do you even care about the game anymore?

One question.

How it will be done to prevent people from switching professions after the matchup is set up?

The question goes towards the possible implications to dcing/disconnecting or changing characters of the same profession but with different builds.

Zlater.6789:

I want to have control over the outcome of a match, I want my side to have the advantage and I don’t ever want to lose.

That’s why I vote no, because I want freedom and control and I want to be able to manipulate the match in my favour. Anyone who says my way of thinking is wrong,
doesn’t play pvp to win.

I think matches should be locked after the warming up phase, but I don’t think we should be stuck during the warming up phase. Because THAT time is the time you are supposed spend preparing and getting ready for a match, including getting your team ready. If you lock it, get rid of the warm up time or allow premade teams, and stop wasting my time.

And this is an example of why PvP is in it’s current state.

the answer is simply NO, but w/e Anet do its simple those players who cant even go up beyond gold division will still be in those division. specially if your bronze player from season 1 to 5. go ahead Anet listen to them, like you listen to people who want more prestige and elitism in a small community. dont get me wrong i like pvp but i think i will shrug season 6 same as i did w/ season 5 and only care about getting my ascended rewards then have a dont give a ….. attitude towards after than. MO if your reading this replace your decision makers in pvp w/ fresh ideas. how can this people copy paste ideas from other proven pvp game and still manage to screw season 5. specially its Match making.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

So much whining going on it’s laughable, let’s look at what this will do to benefit players.

• increase matcmaker accuracy- so many players cried (some people posting in this thread that are against the lock out at queue) about matchmaker S5 how it was inaccurate guess what this will help fix that.
• will highlight overused/overtuned and Unterused/undermined classes for the game mode. – could lead to Devs looking into why those classes are taken so much, would be best if tied with Anti-class stacking implemented
• will make players think about what they queue on.

Let’s look at the bad.

• Increased Queue times – not that bad of a trade off for better Matchmaking.
• can’t counter comp. -which isn’t to big of an issue especially if they implement anti class stacking.

Also if players cared so much about coordinating their comps and so on they wouldn’t have voted team queue out of the Ranked game mode, just saying.

I agree with what’s being said here, as long as they get rid of class stacking in the process. My only concern would be if they don’t completely get rid of class stacking and we wind up in matches with 2+ of the same profession on a team where neither of them can swap to something else. (It doesn’t take much to make people ragequit and afk/jump around in spawn until the match ends) Other than that, I think it would be fine.