Guild Wars 2

lvis.3824:

Dondagora.9645:

Yes, a small sacrifice in exchange for getting rid of or reducing AFKers. Though, if their system is really much better than before, maybe you won’t be waiting for minutes from now on.

So you say, ( and Anet ) , the chance that someone will go AFK while in the queue is higher if he is actually playing the game in another part than standing in the mists while doing nothing ????
Interessting…

No, this is out of the context of ANet’s solution to AFK which simply results in having to stay in the Lobby. It is not that being in the Lobby itself prevents AFK.

The solution of having the menu pop-up to tell you to join is good. Before, people who went AFK would, after a minute or so, be dropped into the arena while AFK. The solution ANet presents stops this AFK entering of arenas, thus preventing 4v5 match-ups. The side-effect of this is that the menu could be blocked by various things in other game modes and loading screens. To prevent this, you have to be in que. Now, if they have really fixed PvP queuing so well, we might not even have minute waits. So, my thoughts are thus: I’d rather wait for a little while in the HotM[not more than 3-5 minutes] than enter a match with only 3 other people on my team, or only 4 opponents. Weigh the gain and loss, and you’ll see the solution is better than the problem.

If i understood this right: you que up with a spesific class( eg. Warrior) but then you see that your team needs a bunker guardian to win. So you relog to your guardian, but you get minus points for leaving the match, even if this desition may have won you the game?

Justin ODell.9517:

KkIenJuju.9406:

If i understood this right: you que up with a spesific class( eg. Warrior) but then you see that your team needs a bunker guardian to win. So you relog to your guardian, but you get minus points for leaving the match, even if this desition may have won you the game?

Correct.

This just seems like a very bad way to make profession-specific MMR work. I’m not claiming to have a solution, but disallowing people to swap before the game begins encourages enemy teams to stack bunkers and use multiple specs like turret engis, as this is extremely hard to beat without the proper class counters. The fact of the matter is that composition plays a huge roll in success in PvP, and some comps inherently counter others. Most people aren’t queueing with the expectation that they will face a team of 5 celestial/bunker specs or multiple turret engis, so they don’t build a team to beat that. In the event that it does happen, however, people shouldn’t be punished for swapping their comp to something that will be more effective in that situation (think power necro, etc). Also, the profession consideration in matchmaking piece is great but it does nothing to stop 5 man premades from running these specs, and unfortunately I’ve seen that happen more than I would like.

Justin ODell.9517:

lvis.3824:

So you say, ( and Anet ) , the chance that someone will go AFK while in the queue is higher if he is actually playing the game in another part than standing in the mists while doing nothing ????
Interessting…

No, staying in the HotM is to prevent players from getting dishonor for failing to respond to a match confirmation because they’re loading another map. It also takes care of people who forgot they queued and went on to do something else in-game because it will remove you from the queue as soon as you leave.

Probably stupid question but can i do Hotjoin or private custom arena or i have only to stay in the hotm running around?

Demus.4571:

Justin ODell.9517:

KkIenJuju.9406:

If i understood this right: you que up with a spesific class( eg. Warrior) but then you see that your team needs a bunker guardian to win. So you relog to your guardian, but you get minus points for leaving the match, even if this desition may have won you the game?

Correct.

This just seems like a very bad way to make profession-specific MMR work. I’m not claiming to have a solution, but disallowing people to swap before the game begins encourages enemy teams to stack bunkers and use multiple specs like turret engis, as this is extremely hard to beat without the proper class counters. The fact of the matter is that composition plays a huge roll in success in PvP, and some comps inherently counter others. Most people aren’t queueing with the expectation that they will face a team of 5 celestial/bunker specs or multiple turret engis, so they don’t build a team to beat that. In the event that it does happen, however, people shouldn’t be punished for swapping their comp to something that will be more effective in that situation (think power necro, etc). Also, the profession consideration in matchmaking piece is great but it does nothing to stop 5 man premades from running these specs, and unfortunately I’ve seen that happen more than I would like.

I would agree with you if people swapped for solo queue now. They don’t though. I haven’t played in months until today. I was on my Ele and had two other eles. One of the eles commented that there were three engies on the other team. Neither of the other 2 eles swapped. The engies remained. People don’t swap a lot to get a balanced comp. The way the queueing system is supposed to work going forward is that we won’t have that issue of having 3 of one class and two of another. If it works as advertised we won’t have to deal with that. You will be the only guard, ranger, thief or whatever on your team and if you have 2 of a comp, who cares? You can talk about who is gonna swap to a different build.

Build diversity in how ArenaNet designs skills is another matter. If we aren’t going to be getting new skills or classes in the future then we should have access to more builds so that it alleviates the issues associated with this. Build Templates are a must as a QoL thing. Like, build templates should be a priority for the next QoL patch. It will make these worries that people have about switching professions before the fight starts moot because you can just roll a comp that works for your team on the profession you queued with totally viable.

K, understand.

We need to see how it works the entire new structure, there are a lot of changes.

Justin ODell.9517:

If wait times are a significant issue, making waiting in HotM very boring, we can try to find alternative solutions. So be sure to share that opinion if you have it after Dec 2nd.

Do you have any estimates on what the wait time will be? Less than 5? Less than 10? Less than a Lord of the Rings movie?

Demus.4571:

Justin ODell.9517:

KkIenJuju.9406:

If i understood this right: you que up with a spesific class( eg. Warrior) but then you see that your team needs a bunker guardian to win. So you relog to your guardian, but you get minus points for leaving the match, even if this desition may have won you the game?

Correct.

This just seems like a very bad way to make profession-specific MMR work. I’m not claiming to have a solution, but disallowing people to swap before the game begins encourages enemy teams to stack bunkers and use multiple specs like turret engis, as this is extremely hard to beat without the proper class counters. The fact of the matter is that composition plays a huge roll in success in PvP, and some comps inherently counter others. Most people aren’t queueing with the expectation that they will face a team of 5 celestial/bunker specs or multiple turret engis, so they don’t build a team to beat that. In the event that it does happen, however, people shouldn’t be punished for swapping their comp to something that will be more effective in that situation (think power necro, etc). Also, the profession consideration in matchmaking piece is great but it does nothing to stop 5 man premades from running these specs, and unfortunately I’ve seen that happen more than I would like.

I like the new change very much actually. Not only does it encourage solo people to find a team, but guarantees team composition at the start of every game which I prefer. It gets rid of that premeta game… class MMR are likely to be improved further.

If you face a team composition that seems to be “very tough to beat” for you, then why not make a team that same way? Besides, strictly solo queing in hope you’ll have that comp setup, or not face that comp setup, sounds like an ignorant statement… You’re Soloing.
Team Premades, regardless of the composition, will always one up players who aren’t in a premade group. Communication plays that much of a factor in this game.

KkIenJuju.9406:

If i understood this right: you que up with a spesific class( eg. Warrior) but then you see that your team needs a bunker guardian to win. So you relog to your guardian, but you get minus points for leaving the match, even if this desition may have won you the game?

Exactly!
The matchmaking algorythm takes into consideration the professions in your team, and also how good you are on the profession you chose. If people kept changing their professions to “better suit” the opponent:

• the matchmaking decisions wouldn’t make sense anymore, and we could go back to a situation of “5 hambow warriors”
• the match would never start because people would be forever “countering” changes on the other team
• people would exploit it to queue as a profession they are bad at, and then changing to a class they are good at.

Saiyan.1704:

Demus.4571:

Justin ODell.9517:

KkIenJuju.9406:

If i understood this right: you que up with a spesific class( eg. Warrior) but then you see that your team needs a bunker guardian to win. So you relog to your guardian, but you get minus points for leaving the match, even if this desition may have won you the game?

Correct.

This just seems like a very bad way to make profession-specific MMR work. I’m not claiming to have a solution, but disallowing people to swap before the game begins encourages enemy teams to stack bunkers and use multiple specs like turret engis, as this is extremely hard to beat without the proper class counters. The fact of the matter is that composition plays a huge roll in success in PvP, and some comps inherently counter others. Most people aren’t queueing with the expectation that they will face a team of 5 celestial/bunker specs or multiple turret engis, so they don’t build a team to beat that. In the event that it does happen, however, people shouldn’t be punished for swapping their comp to something that will be more effective in that situation (think power necro, etc). Also, the profession consideration in matchmaking piece is great but it does nothing to stop 5 man premades from running these specs, and unfortunately I’ve seen that happen more than I would like.

I like the new change very much actually. Not only does it encourage solo people to find a team, but guarantees team composition at the start of every game which I prefer. It gets rid of that premeta game… class MMR are likely to be improved further.

If you face a team composition that seems to be “very tough to beat” for you, then why not make a team that same way? Besides, strictly solo queing in hope you’ll have that comp setup, or not face that comp setup, sounds like an ignorant statement… You’re Soloing.
Team Premades, regardless of the composition, will always one up players who aren’t in a premade group. Communication plays that much of a factor in this game.

You seem to have completely failed to understand anything I said. Ofc premades have an inherent advantage, we don’t need to give them the added advantage of running a bull s**t bunker comp and denying their opponents any chance to counter. As for your suggestion on emulating this strategy, are you suggesting that every single team should be running a 3 cele – 1 soldier – 1 cleric composition to protect themselves from this? That sounds thrilling and extremely healthy for the competition!

justin why not just allow a grace period to reconnect as long as you log back in with the same character?

Justin ODell.9517:

The alternative is to let people be anywhere, and risk them having a queue pop they can’t do anything about because they’re loading into another map. Which means not only would they no longer be queued (with possibly no notification), but they would also get a timeout and dishonor for queue dodging.

Justin, can’t you just make the time people get to respond to the match ready prompt longer so they’ll be able to click it after their cutscene or load screen finishes? 30" should do it for loading screens. As for cutscenes and cinematics, tbh you should be able to make a pop-up dialog that overrides them…

Im not sure why this seems to be so difficult for people to accept. It seems a pretty normal situation to me. If you sign up for a rated match you are expected to be there and ready when it pops. At the moment you que your no longer the only person taken into account.

Theres NINE other people whos enjoyment of the game requires you to be there and ready to enter the match and STAY in the match. To expect to be able to disconnect from a rated match, or simply hop out of the que multiple times without punishment is selfish and foolish. If you que with that kind of mindest your risking the enjoyment of nine other people. If your going to sign up for multiplayer combat. The absolute least you can do is be prepared to play it through.

Another thing. People complain about que times enough as it is. Imagine the rage youl feel when 9 out of 10 people are ready but you have to wait 30 seconds to a minute on top of your que time for some kitten in another part of a game to decide to enter for whatever reason. I can tell ya when im in a game waiting for that last person to enter is an annoying and worrying thing. Because until all 5 members are in for both teams it already FEELS like a 4v5.

I personally love the idea of not allowing character swapping at all (not even in preparation time), because it will remove any form of exploiting MMR, will remove the disconnections and panic of leavers, and will force players to actually think and try to adapt to what they got on that specific match. Professions and combos will be forced to become more dynamic, and not just about meta builds.

Justin ODell.9517:

If wait times are a significant issue, making waiting in HotM very boring, we can try to find alternative solutions. So be sure to share that opinion if you have it after Dec 2nd.

What about enabling dueling in HotM? A lot of people duel on private servers while waiting and might be the most inconvenienced with these new changes. Maybe only in a section in the back as to not bother other people.

^ this is the kind of thinking we should be having. I wouldn’t mind seeing a dueling mechanic added to the game. Or an Arena location added to HoTM where anyone can enter and fight. (No combat outside of arena FFA inside) meaning people could enter and fight whenever they wanted to to test themselves against whatever is there while waiting for a match. (A use for the now unused underwater training area?)

Im sure whatever we think of would take time to implement. but its better than whining about something thats going to change the current system before its even been implemented yet.

Forsight is good. Dueling/an open arena would help relieve boredom if que times are long during certain times of the day. And its something ANET could think about in the future if it a problem DOES arise from this situation.

Demus.4571:

Saiyan.1704:

Demus.4571:

Justin ODell.9517:

KkIenJuju.9406:

If i understood this right: you que up with a spesific class( eg. Warrior) but then you see that your team needs a bunker guardian to win. So you relog to your guardian, but you get minus points for leaving the match, even if this desition may have won you the game?

Correct.

This just seems like a very bad way to make profession-specific MMR work. I’m not claiming to have a solution, but disallowing people to swap before the game begins encourages enemy teams to stack bunkers and use multiple specs like turret engis, as this is extremely hard to beat without the proper class counters. The fact of the matter is that composition plays a huge roll in success in PvP, and some comps inherently counter others. Most people aren’t queueing with the expectation that they will face a team of 5 celestial/bunker specs or multiple turret engis, so they don’t build a team to beat that. In the event that it does happen, however, people shouldn’t be punished for swapping their comp to something that will be more effective in that situation (think power necro, etc). Also, the profession consideration in matchmaking piece is great but it does nothing to stop 5 man premades from running these specs, and unfortunately I’ve seen that happen more than I would like.

I like the new change very much actually. Not only does it encourage solo people to find a team, but guarantees team composition at the start of every game which I prefer. It gets rid of that premeta game… class MMR are likely to be improved further.

If you face a team composition that seems to be “very tough to beat” for you, then why not make a team that same way? Besides, strictly solo queing in hope you’ll have that comp setup, or not face that comp setup, sounds like an ignorant statement… You’re Soloing.
Team Premades, regardless of the composition, will always one up players who aren’t in a premade group. Communication plays that much of a factor in this game.

You seem to have completely failed to understand anything I said. Ofc premades have an inherent advantage, we don’t need to give them the added advantage of running a bull s**t bunker comp and denying their opponents any chance to counter. As for your suggestion on emulating this strategy, are you suggesting that every single team should be running a 3 cele – 1 soldier – 1 cleric composition to protect themselves from this? That sounds thrilling and extremely healthy for the competition!

Sarcasm noted. As for your question I have my own opinions on which team composition is the most frustrating.
On your logic, teams will roll bunk classes as a fail-safe for unable to switch characters prematchup? Pretty sure people who are wanting to run dps will run that dps class; currently hardly anyone soloQ’s with the mindset to switch to bunker or dps because of their own team or enemy’s composition…no one communicates in soloQ.

Justin ODell.9517:

lvis.3824:

So you say, ( and Anet ) , the chance that someone will go AFK while in the queue is higher if he is actually playing the game in another part than standing in the mists while doing nothing ????
Interessting…

No, staying in the HotM is to prevent players from getting dishonor for failing to respond to a match confirmation because they’re loading another map. It also takes care of people who forgot they queued and went on to do something else in-game because it will remove you from the queue as soon as you leave.

Are you planning on making HotM a more exciting place to be at to compensate? It doesn’t exactly sound appealing to play PvP if I have to sit around for 5 minutes blankly staring at my screen until a match is found. Not to mention that it still lacks a bank.

Aren’t you also afraid that you are limiting people of a certain skill level overly much? Or people who play primarily at less populated times of the day? Since they generally do have to wait longer and thus would be forced to aimlessly wander around in HotM longer.

Asides, I am definitely not afk while I am still roaming around in WvW waiting for the PvP queue (nor planning on swapping map, thus entering a load screen). I don’t see how a map enforcement will help battle 4vs5. You are not planning on also letting us wait for the WvW queues in a fixed area, right? Just because coverage balance is an issue there as well.

As someone who enjoys other parts of the game as well (primarily WvW), I am not particularly interested in the amount of sudden big limitations* that are scheduled for PvP. And if it wasn’t clear yet, in my opinion you are about to take a wrong turn. Lets hope it does not lead to a dead end!

| * less feedom to play what we want (class changing pre-start), where we want (waiting map).

I suppose the fact that you ignored the suggestion of dueling in HotM to make waiting for queue less boring should be taken as a “no”. xD

Justin ODell.9517:

Shanks.2907:

I suppose the fact that you ignored the suggestion of dueling in HotM to make waiting for queue less boring should be taken as a “no”. xD

Yes, ‘no’ in that it won’t be available Dec 2nd. No, ‘yes’ in that it’s something we might consider adding in the future.

This answer it for you?

Indeed!

I’ll hold you to a later date though! Bookmarked and print screened!

Not like I think character swapping in game is good but I do think it’s great if say I joined late and couldn’t summon swap on necro to build lf and got stuck with the wrong utilities. Then I would character swap to something use able.

Justin ODell.9517:

MarkPhilips.5169:

Probably stupid question but can i do Hotjoin or private custom arena or i have only to stay in the hotm running around?

If wait times are a significant issue, making waiting in HotM very boring, we can try to find alternative solutions. So be sure to share that opinion if you have it after Dec 2nd.

Implement a dueling or hostile zone, I donno, something to make HotM more interactive, it’s the ‘PvP lobby’ after all, so let us punch each other, to some extent.

The idea of an open arena is great to spend the time while waiting for matches, but that will only be seen in… future, as confirmed (and we all know what that means).

I fear people ready to play pvp will run away having ro wait five to ten kittening minutes doing nothing…ABSOLUTELY DESESPERATELY NOTHING but jumping like kitten on hotm stones and bridge.

Justin ODell.9517:

Shanks.2907:

I suppose the fact that you ignored the suggestion of dueling in HotM to make waiting for queue less boring should be taken as a “no”. xD

Yes, ‘no’ in that it won’t be available Dec 2nd. No, ‘yes’ in that it’s something we might consider adding in the future.

This answer it for you?

The thing is that DUEL feature should be implemented in the game since the release in 2012….And i think I can say that every PVP player agrees on this ….

Eh Blackari I can’t really say thats true. Its more people expected it simply because other games had it. But its not some massive earthshattering thing the game needed to become established. Its a QOL thing at most.

Now however it might be worth implementing. The game is established and for the first time a situation MIGHT, <—- key word here, occur that makes it an item worthy of resources to develop.

And keep in mind it DOES take time away from other things to implement. The pros of dueling HAVE to outweigh the pros of whatever else they intended to add with those resources or else its just a bad buisness decision and itl be back burnered and slowly developed over time if at all. (this is just from my understanding of the business world as well as a logical leap. If this is not infact the way the situation is likely to be handled feel free to provide an argument against this.)

Keep in mind there was never a point until now that a player could HONESTLY say they didn’t have anything to do. Just now in the new system theyv decided to address issues head on (something weve been asking for for a long time now everyone is kittening about it) and the result is a POSSIBILITY for 5-10 minutes (at a stretch if the new methods work properly.) of a player staying in a lobby like area waiting to be called. I would argue that is a normal aspect of pvp and exists in kitten near any game but lets hold off on that until we need it.

As such dueling hasn’t had even the possibility of necessity in GW2 until now. So we can’t honestly say it should have been added in the beggining since adding dueling would have meant NOT adding some other feature we take granted today.

@Justin,

I think it is fine to keep people in HotM. I’d just ask that you add in a banker, a guild banker, and a mystic forge. Those are the main reasons I have to leave HotM now and if they were added, I’d be perfectly fine just staying in the map.

You guys should add Golem Chess to The Mists. Crafting stations should be available too. Anything that makes waiting for a queue to pop in a map we can’t leave more bearable, the better off The Mists will be for it.