Why is there still no number restriction regarding types of professions?
In my opinion you should not be allowed to have the same profession more than once in your team. If this system were in place, the OP classes would not be THAT significant.
Sure, you can say that the same profession with another build is no problem.
Whats your opinion on that?
You would probably agree.
You might not even need a professoin restriction, it would already be nice, if instead of eg Red having 2 Warriors and Blue having 2 Thiefes, giving every team 1 Thief and 1 Warrior.
It s getting rly difficult, when bunkers arent distributed even and one team gets 2-3 bunkers, while the other one has 0
Classes can fill different roles (to some extent at least) with different builds. A team with an engineer, guardian, warrior and ranger all running bunker builds might not work as well as a team with a hgh engi, a bunker engi, a bunker- and an offensive warrior.
besides you have 1,5 minutes before the match starts to change classes and builds to get a more balanced setup. Most good players play several classes, maybe not as good as their main but good enough to fill an important missing role in a setup. Newer players usually don’t but then the class isn’t to deciding usually.
This remind me of Storm of the Imperial Sanctum in starcraft 2.
There could only be 1 of each hero on both teams.
There was 3 ultra OP assasssin classes:
Geminus Boros
Shadow Geminus
Tiberius Rancor
Basically those would be chosen the first second the match started and many would leave if they couldn’t play those. We dont want that.
i can kind of see where OP is comming from, player vs 3 necros+ 2 engis yesterday… not fun at all
but making restrictions like this would cause really long queues
I’m not sure how this would really work. It’s somewhat irritating when this happens (last match was against 4 warriors 1 mesmer) but there would be gigantic que times. Sometimes weird lopsided matches happen in random pairings. I think it’s what keeps it interesting as these groupings wouldn’t happen in structured team matches.
As Requiem said, role diversity is way more important than class diversity, as classes such as warrior, engi and guard especially can fulfill more than 1 role. This would be impossible to create in each match. An artificial class restriction wouldn’t help with making sure roles in each soloQ are balanced per team.
shadow, magus, hunter (progress: ritualist, paragon)
soloQing my way through leagues…
there should be no restriction at all, its more a problem for the balancing team
remember guyz – first months gw2 most teams would not get 2 per class in team cause they would miss something important and 2+ per class would be bad for own team
they have to fix/nerf finaly all this cheese/op crap than this diversity will fix itself
nerf spiritranger / s/d thief/ NECRO / WARRIOR / AR on engi / Burst on Ele and have an eye on mesmer cause they will be kitten op once all the cheese is removed
You really think there can be times without having an OP class or mechanic through balance changes?
Maybe so but look at the time the devs need to adjust the OPness of certain things (half a year) and tell me again that we dont need a restriction so we still can play with the same OP class 4 times per team.
Justin has been looking into ways to make rosters more balanced. He’s mentioned placing users with dishonored together in queue (what a terrible place to be!), spreading professions more evenly, and a few other things.
In theory, the idea sounds awesome! I’ve personally been on quite a few solo queue rosters of myself + 4 of the same profession – and it’s definitely not fun. The obvious downside here is that every filter he creates is going to extend queue times that much more.
Teams with multiple of the same profession must have at least 30 points spent in different trees from another player on your team. (prob only valid on team queue)
example:
same profession-
20/20/30/0/0 and 10/0/30/20/10 <- is fine =D
20/20/30/0/0 and 20/0/30/20/0 <- is not =(
“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~” “Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
How about when you queue in, there are options to check which would be your primary role. With secondary roles you could switch too if the queue can’t find you a postion with your primary role chosen.
1.) Bunker
2.) Roamer
3.) etc..
Lord Chuck I – Guardian
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand
Come on guys, this isn’t hard. We don’t need the 100% solution. The 90% solution will be fine.
Here’s the rules for solo/team queue:
Players rank 1-12 will have a reduced effective MMR when matched.
The match will not start unless there are 5 players on each team present in the arena. If 5 players are not present on each team within 30 seconds after the scheduled match start time, the match is abandoned, the players are sent back to the front of the queue and the missing players are given dishonor.
Players leaving the match must return within 30 seconds or receive dishonor. Departing a second time is an automatic kick with dishonor.
Teams with missing players/leavers/etc will not lose MMR
Solo Queue only: Each team may have no more than one pair of players with the same profession. This eliminates “triple warrior”/“double warrior double guardian”/etc teams.
Also, make 5v5 hot join the standard. 8v8 is available but is not an option in “play now”.
In terms of ‘how long is long enough’ in terms of waiting for a match: compute the average time of a single hot-join match and multiply it by ~1.3. That’s your wait time. (one full hot-join match, with some slack) Anything longer is too long.
There’s your solution. It does not handle malicious cases where someone swaps out a character and creates a ‘triple warrior’ team, but it’s the 90% solution and that’s probably good enough. Let players report the guy/girl that toon swaps to violate the rules.
If you want you can hire me and I’ll come over and code it, too.
Justin has been looking into ways to make rosters more balanced. He’s mentioned placing users with dishonored together in queue (what a terrible place to be!), spreading professions more evenly, and a few other things.
In theory, the idea sounds awesome! I’ve personally been on quite a few solo queue rosters of myself + 4 of the same profession – and it’s definitely not fun. The obvious downside here is that every filter he creates is going to extend queue times that much more.
Sounds great. Even better option would be actually start balancing the professions to even remotely equal power so we wouldnt need be play warrior wars 2.
Justin has been looking into ways to make rosters more balanced. He’s mentioned placing users with dishonored together in queue (what a terrible place to be!), spreading professions more evenly, and a few other things.
In theory, the idea sounds awesome! I’ve personally been on quite a few solo queue rosters of myself + 4 of the same profession – and it’s definitely not fun. The obvious downside here is that every filter he creates is going to extend queue times that much more.
the problem i see is that there’s no real way to tell what kind of profession a player will bring into the match.
For example:
If i queue as a mesmer, the system will count me as a mesmer, but as soon as the match starts, i just switch to war and i just cheated on the system.
The only reasonable way to fix this would be to make a second shuffling among teams as soon as the wait time ends, in order to balance professions.
But in this case, players choice pre-match ( maybe in an attempt to counter-comp the opposing team) is just being nullified, taking away any possible player choice.
Basically, it would just become a RNG match, and i’m not sure everyone would agree with this system.
There should be no restrictions in team arena. In solo arena it’s get a bit ridiculous when 1 team is stacked with necros and engis or warriors and guardians. Can that be modified? yes. Should it? not really. One of the main points people make when discussing OP classes is their popularity. Everyone knows warrior is great and any doubters are hushed by the lopsided matches constantly forming in soloQ.
It’s been mentioned before that Anet keeps tabs on the popularity of classes(IDK if they do or not…), but if there’s a limitation then people may not play broken classes as much and it may take even longer to nerf ridiculous builds. It could even become a part of the meta to say, “see, each team gets their warrior- it’s an aoe-stun-condi cleansing-tank and it’s fair that way!”…
Come on guys, this isn’t hard. We don’t need the 100% solution. The 90% solution will be fine.
Here’s the rules for solo/team queue:
Players rank 1-12 will have a reduced effective MMR when matched.
The match will not start unless there are 5 players on each team present in the arena. If 5 players are not present on each team within 30 seconds after the scheduled match start time, the match is abandoned, the players are sent back to the front of the queue and the missing players are given dishonor.
Players leaving the match must return within 30 seconds or receive dishonor. Departing a second time is an automatic kick with dishonor.
Teams with missing players/leavers/etc will not lose MMR
Solo Queue only: Each team may have no more than one pair of players with the same profession. This eliminates “triple warrior”/“double warrior double guardian”/etc teams.
Also, make 5v5 hot join the standard. 8v8 is available but is not an option in “play now”.
In terms of ‘how long is long enough’ in terms of waiting for a match: compute the average time of a single hot-join match and multiply it by ~1.3. That’s your wait time. (one full hot-join match, with some slack) Anything longer is too long.
There’s your solution. It does not handle malicious cases where someone swaps out a character and creates a ‘triple warrior’ team, but it’s the 90% solution and that’s probably good enough. Let players report the guy/girl that toon swaps to violate the rules.
If you want you can hire me and I’ll come over and code it, too.
Apart from rule 4 (to prone to abuse imo) this is what should have the highest priority of addressing right now.
Another, perhaps better, but more time-consuming solution would be to introduce a match start screen similar to certain MOBA’s where there is a class/role selection and ready up phase. More than one minute wait in the game is fairly pointless.
Individual skill is very important (although less so in the current meta) but on high ranked solo queue games I can predict most outcomes based on role setups. And having a 2nd bunkguard or 2nd zerkroamer enter in the last second usually just instantly kills the match. There’s hardly anything as frustrating as being forced to relog to a mid point bunk only to have another join last second. In conquest the entire team composition just overrules individual skill. But I strongly believe that the examined changes to the matchmaking isn’t the right place to fix this. People are quick to blame the entire system whereas the users are in reality just not using the system in the right way, the system should encourage the players to use it the right way. The current system wasn’t designed with competitive solo queue in mind. Class/role/ready selection does that, 5v5 hotjoins (as default) does that, forced ready does that. I honestly think that pvp does not need more overly complicated (5v5) game modes, but I do think that the accessibility of conquest should still be improved. The amount of players who don’t really understand conquest right now are just the evidence for this. And imo the system rewarding (daily) players for brainless double capping of points etc. is prove that the system doesn’t even try…
TLDR: Profession restriction isn’t necessary if everything works fine (balance & other system mechanics). Profession restrictions outside of the matchmakingprogress is an improvement for now but addressing the underlying reasons is the real solution.
