Guild Wars 2

Also the thumper turret should have an easy animation before actualy dropping the CC, like the hammerstun or skill five hammer of the warrior.
Something like become illuminated or opening one second before stun.

DarkHorse.1059:

Turret being conditioned is immersion breaking. You’re breaking my immersion. This is unacceptable. A turret isn’t alive how can it be poisoned or suffer bleeding?

Contaminated lubrication system will mess up any moving machine…. That sounds right for poison.

And if you cut an oil or hydraulic line, it will bleed out until it stops working.

Even burning, I envisage the heat damaging seals/couplings or causing thermal expansion to cease moving parts…

I’ve worked with alot of complex mechanical systems and at times they can seem very anatomical ;-)

Easy way to fix “flying turrets” is to make their cast similar to 100 Blades. That is, moving cancels the cast. Since you can’t start the cast when in mid-air, the problem is solved.

Turret cast time is short enough that the self-root isn’t usually a problem. Healing Turret could be exempt from this because A: nobody complains about that one flying and B: it’s the most likely turret to get dropped in a sticky situation where you can’t afford to stand still.

Honestly, I respectfully think this is like putting a bandaid on the problem.

I’m ok with this being one part of the change, but it would be better if they made Turret gameplay more active.

For example, make Deployable Turrets reduce the CD of turrets when they are picked up. Maybe even have the CD be lower the closer to “death” the turret is when picked up.

This would make Fortified Turrets more attractive. If you get good at timing the pick up you’ll be able to get the shield from Fortified Turrets more often. This would hopefully encourage more active turret play rather than just outright nerfing it.

i for one think it’s great change, let the rookies have the passive AI build they want, just don’t make it so it can carry them way above their mmr.

Josh Davis.6015:

DeWolfe.2174:

btw, who uses Turrets in WvW?

Static discharge builds.

Nope, they use the turret toolbelt and maybe the trait for knock back on blow-up. Nobody int their right mind uses the turret in WvW or PvE. After this change even the few limited uses left in PvE (e.g. Archdiviner in cliffside fractal) will be gone. And the only viable elite skill of the engineer as well.

You say you want to bring turrets on par with other pets. If that is the case give them:

• ability to deal critical damage
• mobility or much shorter cooldowns
• boons
• heals
• damage scaling with engineer stats

Mork vom Ork.2598:

Josh Davis.6015:

DeWolfe.2174:

btw, who uses Turrets in WvW?

Static discharge builds.

Nope, they use the turret toolbelt and maybe the trait for knock back on blow-up. Nobody int their right mind uses the turret in WvW or PvE. After this change even the few limited uses left in PvE (e.g. Archdiviner in cliffside fractal) will be gone. And the only viable elite skill of the engineer as well.

You say you want to bring turrets on par with other pets. If that is the case give them:

• ability to deal critical damage
• mobility or much shorter cooldowns
• boons
• heals
• damage scaling with engineer stats

I’ve seen some guys drop thumpers during toxic offspring events…
But the fact, this instantly caught my attention is just more proof of how uncommon it is.

And honestly, with turrets becoming vulnerable to conditions, even the thumper diversion for toxic offshoots will disappear for obvious reasons.

Mork vom Ork.2598:

Josh Davis.6015:

DeWolfe.2174:

btw, who uses Turrets in WvW?

Static discharge builds.

Nope, they use the turret toolbelt and maybe the trait for knock back on blow-up. Nobody int their right mind uses the turret in WvW or PvE. After this change even the few limited uses left in PvE (e.g. Archdiviner in cliffside fractal) will be gone. And the only viable elite skill of the engineer as well.

You say you want to bring turrets on par with other pets. If that is the case give them:

• ability to deal critical damage
• mobility or much shorter cooldowns
• boons
• heals
• damage scaling with engineer stats

wrt to mobility, i think some like them to be stationary. lets turrets hold points while engi runs elsewhere to cap or whatever

wrt dps scaling, i think some like that it doesn’t, lets them invest personal stats into bunking stuff, while maintaining high dps from turrets

thats some of what i’ve gathered from lots of this thread

Buff turrets! Give them:

• ability to deal critical damage
• mobility or much shorter cooldowns
• boons
• heals
• damage scaling with engineer stats

All the turret engineers trying to defend their classes by calling others bad for not knowing how to deal with them. And asking for a reason. Here, let me tell you a reason. On one hand, you have a completely bad player with relatively no pvp skills playing a turret engineer because it’s a crutch/carry defending a point…Then on the other hand, you have a high skilled player in pvp, any profession/class that isn’t stupid like a turret engineer or shout bow….They go to said point with the turret engineer…Most likely, they’re just going to ignore that turret engineer and focus on capping the other 2 points.

Why?

Because, no matter how much the second player outclasses the turret engineer in terms of skill…It’s STILL GOING TO TAKE A FREAKING LONG TIME TO KILL SAID ENGINEER. You literally need 2-3 people to quickly kill the turret engineer which takes away from the team capping/defending the other points. Why should a build reward bad players? No. This is a well deserved nerf.

Now make no mistakes, I don’t mind 1 v 1ing a turret engineer but it just takes too long and it’s just annoying. No class should ever be this annoying.

Lettuce.2945:

It’s STILL GOING TO TAKE A FREAKING LONG TIME TO KILL SAID ENGINEER. You literally need 2-3 people to quickly kill the turret engineer

In my last ranked match of the night, I repeatedly wiped an over reaching Triple Turret Engi. He kept back capping our home and I killed him in under 15 seconds or less 1v. This was on my Thief since it’s the daily. Even on my own Turret Engi build, I have no issues pushing off and killing a Triple Turret Engi. If you noticed that I keep referring to them as Triple Turret Engi’s, that’s because there exists more than one build. This short sighted discussion of THAT build is going to nerf all other Engi’s who use a turret. And, there should be those of us that actually try to USE a turret or crate beyond the simple Toolbelt skills.

Josh Davis.6015:

DeWolfe.2174:

btw, who uses Turrets in WvW?

Static discharge builds.

I like how you are being cheeky when you have no idea what you are talking about.

SD build isn’t a turret build. They use Rifle turret toolbelt skill, not the rifle turret.

The only time I actually put my rifle turret down to act as a turret (not to just explode/CC an attacking melee player, and not to use as a blast finisher for healing) is when I down an opponent 1v1 and am about to go down myself. This happens maybe once every 4-5 matches. The rest of the time, a blown up turret is worth far more than a live turret for an SD engi.

Josh Davis.6015:

1v1 me bruv!

LOL… Called out!

Josh Davis.6015:

1v1 me bruv!

http://new4.fjcdn.com/comments/Wot+_8e053ba011ac16d052790d806f561aed.png

<3

Hvaran.6327:

Josh Davis.6015:

1v1 me bruv!

http://new4.fjcdn.com/comments/Wot+_8e053ba011ac16d052790d806f561aed.png

<3

Bwahahahahahahahaha

Josh Davis.6015:

runeblade.7514:

Josh Davis.6015:

DeWolfe.2174:

btw, who uses Turrets in WvW?

Static discharge builds.

I like how you are being cheeky when you have no idea what you are talking about.

SD build isn’t a turret build. They use Rifle turret toolbelt skill, not the rifle turret.

1v1 me bruv!

On a serious note, you should also be using your rifle turret (or any turret in an SD build) for damage purposes . Detonate turret does a flat 1200 damage on instant cast and can be used in succession with Surprise Shot. If you’re using Accelerant Packed Turrets, which you probably are, it’s also an additional CC during your burst combo.

There’s a good guide here if you need more information: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Static_Discharge

That still is only using the turrets toolbelt skill not the actual turret.
You only use the turret skill so you can use the toolbelt twice. If we’re discussing the viability of turrets/turret builds pre/post nerf this is a very bad example.

Lettuce.2945:

All the turret engineers trying to defend their classes by calling others bad for not knowing how to deal with them. And asking for a reason. Here, let me tell you a reason. On one hand, you have a completely bad player with relatively no pvp skills playing a turret engineer because it’s a crutch/carry defending a point…Then on the other hand, you have a high skilled player in pvp, any profession/class that isn’t stupid like a turret engineer or shout bow….They go to said point with the turret engineer…Most likely, they’re just going to ignore that turret engineer and focus on capping the other 2 points.

Why?

Because, no matter how much the second player outclasses the turret engineer in terms of skill…It’s STILL GOING TO TAKE A FREAKING LONG TIME TO KILL SAID ENGINEER. You literally need 2-3 people to quickly kill the turret engineer which takes away from the team capping/defending the other points. Why should a build reward bad players? No. This is a well deserved nerf.

Now make no mistakes, I don’t mind 1 v 1ing a turret engineer but it just takes too long and it’s just annoying. No class should ever be this annoying.

How long does it take you to take out a bunker guardian?

Josh Davis.6015:

runeblade.7514:

Josh Davis.6015:

DeWolfe.2174:

btw, who uses Turrets in WvW?

Static discharge builds.

I like how you are being cheeky when you have no idea what you are talking about.

SD build isn’t a turret build. They use Rifle turret toolbelt skill, not the rifle turret.

1v1 me bruv!

On a serious note, you should also be using your rifle turret (or any turret in an SD build) for damage purposes . Detonate turret does a flat 1200 damage on instant cast and can be used in succession with Surprise Shot. If you’re using Accelerant Packed Turrets, which you probably are, it’s also an additional CC during your burst combo.

There’s a good guide here if you need more information: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Static_Discharge

Josh please. The very link you gave said you aren’t supposed to pop the turret and let him sit there. You only use it to burst right away for cc and more damage, which will in no way whatsoever be affected by what’s happening with turrets.

This is sad… My build only used two turrets.. Healing and Thumper… and now they are getting Smiter’s Booned…..

Ya’ll need to play more ranked and cut this unranked crap out…

DeWolfe.2174:

Hvaran.6327:

Josh Davis.6015:

1v1 me bruv!

http://new4.fjcdn.com/comments/Wot+_8e053ba011ac16d052790d806f561aed.png

<3

Bwahahahahahahahaha

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/60150357.jpg

gosh now i like Grouch even more, laughed my kitten off on their last stronghold commentary…

delete this my post if i’m making too much offtopic though, i totally support the constructive discussion of problem that is this thread about

Josh Davis.6015:

runeblade.7514:

Josh Davis.6015:

DeWolfe.2174:

btw, who uses Turrets in WvW?

Static discharge builds.

I like how you are being cheeky when you have no idea what you are talking about.

SD build isn’t a turret build. They use Rifle turret toolbelt skill, not the rifle turret.

1v1 me bruv!

On a serious note, you should also be using your rifle turret (or any turret in an SD build) for damage purposes . Detonate turret does a flat 1200 damage on instant cast and can be used in succession with Surprise Shot. If you’re using Accelerant Packed Turrets, which you probably are, it’s also an additional CC during your burst combo.

There’s a good guide here if you need more information: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Static_Discharge

I don’t get why that says you should not target anyone using Toss Elixir S; on toolbelt skills that aren’t targeted, the discharge goes where your character is facing, all you have to do is look away.

Also, I’ve always used Utility Goggles for my SD build, love catching thieves with that 6secc revealed (though it is a bit of an overkill as an engi, even with this build) Been tossing the idea in my head of using, I kid you not, Thumper Turret as the stunbreak, and maybe even putting 6 in Alchemy for Experimental Turrets. Hold them in place with Net shot or Magnet, then charge up, drop/detonate Rifle Turret for (with Exper. Turrets) 6s fury, pop off a burst skill, Drop and OC Thumper for knockback and Protection, drop some more burst, OC shot for more CC, and so on…

Was even thinking of testing it in hotjoin this weekend, but the news of the upcoming trait/specializations changes has me holding off on that until I get a better idea on what I might be able to do.

I don’t think Josh even understands why is it that Turret Engis are so OP.
And he doesn’t understand why is it so frustrating to play against one of them.

Can they be beat? Sure, I kill them all the time but it’s not fun. It’s annoying.
VERY annoying.

And it’s too kitten ed easy to just face-roll with a Turret Engi and still be extremely effective.
The proposed change won’t be enough. Not by a longshot.

Bio Flame.4276:

I don’t think Josh even understands why is it that Turret Engis are so OP.
And he doesn’t understand why is it so frustrating to play against one of them.

Can they be beat? Sure, I kill them all the time but it’s not fun. It’s annoying.
VERY annoying.

And it’s too kitten ed easy to just face-roll with a Turret Engi and still be extremely effective.
The proposed change won’t be enough. Not by a longshot.

I disagree, coming from a thief and the damage shortbow does to turrets, given our high crit ability, it really should level them out. Currently I spend a lot of time dropping cluster bombs on the engi turrets, but now with crit damage and condi damage, choking gas will be able to be used as well as crits from cluster bomb.

That tell tale engi mass of turrets on point just wont be as much of a problem at all. Now well placed turrets spread out around a point that I cant blow all of them away with a couple shortbow shots, that may be a different story and should be.

This is going to make engi’s think of where they put turrets. Much like in WvW how you place rams and catas to avoid all of them being disabled or taken out in one blow.

The siege still is effective, but you have to be smart about it in WvW.

Now in all fairness, the question I have is whether skills like cleansing burst will cleanse the turrets of conditions as well.

Which I think it should.

as lord of the gd turrets, it took the balance team this long to make this little change? sweet god you kitten on this community by not nerfing this build into the ground can we get a real nerf – love faux

Bio Flame.4276:

I don’t think Josh even understands why is it that Turret Engis are so OP.
And he doesn’t understand why is it so frustrating to play against one of them.

Can they be beat? Sure, I kill them all the time but it’s not fun. It’s annoying.
VERY annoying.

And it’s too kitten ed easy to just face-roll with a Turret Engi and still be extremely effective.
The proposed change won’t be enough. Not by a longshot.

There will be quite a few ways for classes to kill a Turret Engi is this goes through.

AI builds really do need to be addressed in this AMA as a general concept. I’m sure people would be okay if Anet formally said, “Guys we are just as tired of AI as you are and will only make this worthwhile for PvE and maybe WvW players,” but in the interest of build diversity I think they should at least try to make AI more competition-friendly.

Alexander.9810:

Bio Flame.4276:

I don’t think Josh even understands why is it that Turret Engis are so OP.
And he doesn’t understand why is it so frustrating to play against one of them.

Can they be beat? Sure, I kill them all the time but it’s not fun. It’s annoying.
VERY annoying.

And it’s too kitten ed easy to just face-roll with a Turret Engi and still be extremely effective.
The proposed change won’t be enough. Not by a longshot.

There will be quite a few ways for classes to kill a Turret Engi is this goes through.

AI builds really do need to be addressed in this AMA as a general concept. I’m sure people would be okay if Anet formally said, “Guys we are just as tired of AI as you are and will only make this worthwhile for PvE and maybe WvW players,” but in the interest of build diversity I think they should at least try to make AI more competition-friendly.

Emphasis is mine.

I really think that should be the way to balance AI for PvP. AI should never replace player-skill nor should it be more important than player skill.
We’re talking about PvP not PvE so per definition, this should be true.

But currently, it isn’t. We have all the clusterkitten around AI: Mesmer clones/phantasms, Necro minion, Ranger Pets, Engi Turrets, some creature-summoning Elites….
(and fortunately, Guard Spirit-weapons are not viabel in PvP!)

Alexander.9810:

Bio Flame.4276:

I don’t think Josh even understands why is it that Turret Engis are so OP.
And he doesn’t understand why is it so frustrating to play against one of them.

Can they be beat? Sure, I kill them all the time but it’s not fun. It’s annoying.
VERY annoying.

And it’s too kitten ed easy to just face-roll with a Turret Engi and still be extremely effective.
The proposed change won’t be enough. Not by a longshot.

There will be quite a few ways for classes to kill a Turret Engi is this goes through.

AI builds really do need to be addressed in this AMA as a general concept. I’m sure people would be okay if Anet formally said, “Guys we are just as tired of AI as you are and will only make this worthwhile for PvE and maybe WvW players,” but in the interest of build diversity I think they should at least try to make AI more competition-friendly.

Yeah I play thief and I tend to frown upon thieves guild in sPvP. Luckily enough its generally such a long CD that if the thief stealth bombs Thieves Guild then they have no elite for a while. As another thief, its why as soon as I see SR go down I SR a bit after due to Thieves Guild.

Though generally no good players run it in favor of Basi, it still changes the way I would dual in sPvP.

I just wanna know. When the hell is this change gonna get rolled out. Sick of getting turret engis on my team with no flipping clue how to rotate. At all. Its annoying.

The way the minor characteristics of this setup are being debated over as though it constitutes a fundamentally sound part of the game if only for a few nerfs or buffs is hilarious. Why are the die-hards in this game such masochists? You are clearly being trolled by the devs and you just keep lapping it up.

That it loses effectiveness against decent players does not alter the fact that you could write a very simple macro to play this setup at a ‘top’ level (or what passes for GW2’s ‘top’ at least) and there would be minimal if any noticeable difference (the pressure is all completely AI-driven or passive in the case of the exploding turret knockbacks). It’s not how effective it is or isn’t that matters, it’s that you don’t even need human input to play the thing. Certainly there are other spammy and mindless builds that come to mind but none comes even remotely close to this one. It’s like some kind of bad joke.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi all,

As a follow-up to my post from last Friday, I wanted to give you a run-down of the changes we’re looking to make to the engineer’s turrets:

• Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit. (Edit for clarity: this change means the turrets can take critical hits against them, but they still cannot deal critical hits themselves.)
• Engineer turrets will be able to be affected by conditions.

Considering most minions/summoned pets are already susceptible to the aforementioned changes we feel that this is a fair way to bring turrets more inline with the rest of the game. These changes should only slightly affect the viability of turrets in PvE/WvW (low creature crit chance/condition application), while providing for more counterplay against turrets.

We’d love to hear your feedback on these changes. Feel free to respond below with your comments.

-Grouch

what you guys overlook is those other minions are mobiles and have scaling stats turrets unlike minions are stationary cant crit and have fixed damage aside from flame turret wich burns and scales with condi turrets also have low attack rate and ontop of that are penalized in cooldowns if killed minions always have fixed cooldowns .

to be succeptible to conditions is acceptable but making them vulnerable to crit will completely ruin turrets as even traited they instantly die as it is with raw power .

while you guys are nerfing fix rangers’s offshoot 1500 range does not = 1900+ range

more importantly how will you balance condition builds because theres already condition toughness vitality gear wich in a power build (soldier) is not impactful as the build wont crit conditions on the other hand have static damage and will always hit max damage per stack .

jportell.2197:

I just wanna know. When the hell is this change gonna get rolled out. Sick of getting turret engis on my team with no flipping clue how to rotate. At all. Its annoying.

I’m getting sick of being accused of being a turreteer…. when I play SD/zerk XD

whatever is coming with the turret changes is looking to be a moot point compared to the full on overhaul that HoT is starting to look like tbh.

turret whiners will know true terror when they end up against parties of nothing but cele engies with nades

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi all,

As a follow-up to my post from last Friday, I wanted to give you a run-down of the changes we’re looking to make to the engineer’s turrets:

• Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit. (Edit for clarity: this change means the turrets can take critical hits against them, but they still cannot deal critical hits themselves.)
• Engineer turrets will be able to be affected by conditions.

We’d love to hear your feedback on these changes. Feel free to respond below with your comments.

-Grouch

SWEET BABY JESUS 3/4 OF THE GD TURRETS ARE ALREADY EASY TO KILL YOU’VE DONT NOTHING TO NERF THIS BUILD

Keeper of Da Cookie.8714:

One question how can an inanimate object ie turrets be bled they are not living..

They actually can, its called ‘losing oil’.

I do agree ‘bleeding’ literally is silly but use your imagination a bit

Why is it so hard for devs to balance this build, you kittened up this game just admit it. Both “test seasons” to improve the state of pvp have been littered with turret aids the improvements to the LB never came its still a farm fest of no skilled turret kids. Literally just soloqeueud into 4 games this morning 12 of the 40 players were turret engis. On the day of the GD stronghold beta one of your lowlife dev’s queued with a turret engi. THE FIRST DAY OF BETA AND UR QUEUEING WITH TURRETS. more than 6 months of asking for nerf to turrets and this is how you treat the pvp communiy. God knows why you even said u were trying to revive pvp with reward for lb and WTS esports scenerino. I’d honestly rather watch you take a kitten on my puppy then see this useless nerf put into the game. THUMPER TAKES MORE DMG WHOOP DEE SCOOBY DOO

dont just nerf turrets balance the whole game while at it

remove ranger’s ridiculous offshoot wich allows them to hit from around 2000 range
nerf the skills that have over 3.0 scale coefficient
drop some of the condition damage scaling or survivavility on condition gear conditions always deal their highest damage per stack thus players are now seeing they can have both the highest survivability in game while not being penalized by running condi bunkers
that should be a good start

Bio Flame.4276:

I don’t think Josh even understands why is it that Turret Engis are so OP.
And he doesn’t understand why is it so frustrating to play against one of them.

Can they be beat? Sure, I kill them all the time but it’s not fun. It’s annoying.
VERY annoying.

And it’s too kitten ed easy to just face-roll with a Turret Engi and still be extremely effective.
The proposed change won’t be enough. Not by a longshot.

Well the thing they are not actually so OP they are just far to rewarding for the effort put in. Turret builds also carry bads like no other build can and in the casual scene(90% of the game or more?) they can dominate.

Honestly the proposed changes are more than enough, there is so much aoe dmg both condi and direct flying around everywhere taking out a turret is gonna be so easy. Just making them affected by burning alone would be a massive change. When you add that turrets can now be crit they will melt it matters of secs.

Not sure what results to the meta you are aiming at
But this is exactly what is going to happen:

• Necromancers already counter Engineers but this will become a severe counter when conditions can effect turrets. This will not only effect Turret-Engineers but also Cele/Rifle Engis and their Supply Crate defense. Turret play will suffer more than it already does vs. Necromancers.

• Elementalists “who all run celestial nowadays” will become hard counters to any turret play. Cele/Rifle will hold together but Turret Engineers will no longer be viable vs. Elementalists.

• Mesmers ~ Not much will change with the balance here other than splash damage criticals will slightly enhance the Mesmer’s offense vs. turrets.

• Rangers power and condi already counter Engineers in every aspect except for on-point staying power when it comes to vs. turrets. This new patch will allow condi survival to Entangle down and bleed turrets too easily. If the Ranger equips Flame Trap to go along with the Entangle it will render Turret play as no longer viable vs. Ranger.

• Thief ~ Not much will change with the balance here as Thieves generally have poor cleave and do not have time to stand and single strike turrets nor do they have time to stand and SB #2 turrets.

• Warriors Shoutbow and Hambow alike will receive an enormous boost in the ability of their cleaves to DPS down the turrets. A simple rotation or two of Longbow F1 spam with #3 will result in a field of dead turrets. Hambows smacking around INT sigils will now also be able to accidentally down turrets easily. Warriors will become more prominent on point than turret play and I would almost consider this a counter to turrets due to heavy cleave.

• Guardians that burst with Berserker gear are going to immediately flatten all turrets caught in their burst maybe with exception for Thumper Turret. If an Engineer plays smart and widely distributes the turrets far away from each other, turrets may still be viable vs. Guardians.

All in all, I believe that allowing condis and criticals to effect turrets is an extreme approach that will only strengthen the celestial meta “which is not what we want”. These changes will result in the disappearance of the Turret Engineer build structure entirely and further limit the diversity of GW2 spvp “concerning what is viable and what is not”.

I feel it would be a better idea to simply lower turret health value by 10% to 15%

these nerfs need to happen <3 not because I think turrets are op or underpowered, I do not care for that argument. Turret engis are just amazingly not fun to fight, especially for new players.
I know so many players that tried pvp walked into a few teams that had turret engis on them and do you know what they said ? They said man meow this I’m done its not fun to get beaten by ai. If you get beaten by a better player that’s fine often you get to see some swanky stuff they are pulling to beat you and the reaction is actually positive in your head. Getting beaten by ai is nothing but frustrating. I’m sure some one (if any one replies to my post) will say but rotations! That beats turret engis.
I am only talking about the new pvper experience here. This build fundamentally makes that experience less fun and thus we lose potential members of our pvp community :’(.

phokus.8934:

What’s with people trying to use real life logic into inanimate objects taking poison, confusion and any other fantasy condition?

This is a game, folks. Move on. The Force isn’t real. Lightsabers are not real. People cannot be turned into Moa’s or summon magical kitten from their hands.

People like to have a degree of logic apply to things, a set of rules that make sense. It helps with immersion and is much more satisfying to work with. When something doesn’t make sense It’s immersion breaking, its unsatisfying to deal with, and it feels unjust.

Akumetsu.8591:

these nerfs need to happen <3 not because I think turrets are op or underpowered, I do not care for that argument. Turret engis are just amazingly not fun to fight, especially for new players.
I know so many players that tried pvp walked into a few teams that had turret engis on them and do you know what they said ? They said man meow this I’m done its not fun to get beaten by ai. If you get beaten by a better player that’s fine often you get to see some swanky stuff they are pulling to beat you and the reaction is actually positive in your head. Getting beaten by ai is nothing but frustrating. I’m sure some one (if any one replies to my post) will say but rotations! That beats turret engis.
I am only talking about the new pvper experience here. This build fundamentally makes that experience less fun and thus we lose potential members of our pvp community :’(.

New players wouldn’t even know what is or isn’t AI or Passives. I’m pretty certain getting ganked by any burst build is going to turn off new players more than anything. Thieves and Mesmer’s have been inducing rage since launch.

This change will accomplish the following:

1) Turret engis will still kill inexperienced players.

2) Turret engis will now not kill people that are inexperienced.

As it should be.

Fact: an AI build where the player does minimal work should not be viable in competitive PvP, ever.

jportell.2197:

I just wanna know. When the hell is this change gonna get rolled out. Sick of getting turret engis on my team with no flipping clue how to rotate. At all. Its annoying.

I’m betting they still won’t know or learn how to rotate after the fact.

In Josh we trust!

Though, umm…. Can Anet contact mouse manufacturers like Razor? My Naga is out of buttons for an F5 skill

This will not be enough.

And it doesn’t address two of the fundamental problems:

1- It’s not fun to fight a clusterkitten of random stuff on the ground

2- The low-risk high-reward turret gameplay still exists.

Simply put, the turrets do too much with too little input from the Engi player. That’s a no-no on any serious PvP game. That won’t change.
And it’s absurdly unfun to play against.

Didn’t read the whole thread.My thoughts are:
1 Turret’s dps must depend of the engineer stats(amulet).It isn’t now.(Right?).You can’t be tanky and do a lot of damage because of turrets.
2 Turrets must be vulnerable to conditions.ATM if you are playing condi, you cant do enough condi pressure because of CC and turrets dmg,and you can’t kill turrets because u have little power.So what am I supposed to do with that if Im playing condi.
You may add a special condition for kind of stuff like turrets and Kyhlo treb (lets call it corrosion).Which is calculated of incoming regular condis so everyone will have a chance to kill it.
3 Maybe recalculate a little turrets trait regen and health.