Guild Wars 2

Alright, so I’m just creating this as yet another reference point to PvP’s balance. If you don’t like my opinion, feel free to say so and to post yours, but personally… mine with current PvP is a bit negative.

So, we have three separate sides in this matter: “PvP Is Perfect Now!”, “PvP Is OK, Needs Balancing…”, and “**** THIS. THIS **** IS ****ing UNACCEPTABLE! **** YOU ANET FOR ****ING PVP RIGHT IN THE *!”, which I’m personally in the mindset of the second one.

PvP, like everything else in the game, is designed to enjoy, right? Que up, ready to have a somewhat tactical and fun fight with foes (and sometimes friends) alike.

But, wait… when you get there, you with your 3.5k Toughness, you find that your entire party is killed within five seconds by a team of three Thieves. You wonder what happened, opening your “Death By <Skill>” window up. You find out that you took 10k Poison Damage within five seconds, and brush it off as “balancing issue.” or “maybe they’re l33t.”

Except, that isn’t exaggerated. Before I get into exactly why I PERSONALLY feel like the PvP is now more ‘easy-mode’, as is the game, I will say: I suck, but I suck less than the people I go up against typically.

So, onto the main point.
You know how most of the people that play PvP, if you ask them, say that “PvP could use a bit of balancing” without flipping out? These are the people that actually play PvP. I took time after each match to ask people what they thought. You have three guesses. Wait, I just posted it above.

PvP is becoming nothing more than dumbed-down, tactic-less, DPS ***ring. Have you seen one, single healer that wasn’t an Elementalist, that was effective? Or, how about a single Support that wasn’t an Elementalist/Engineer/Necromancer? I’m guessing you actually haven’t, and neither have I.

Every game I enter post-patch, I find nothing, and I mean NOTHING but damage/condi-damage stacking. Around. Every. Corner. ANet may have tried to make PvP more “newbie-friendly” through this, but I really doubt that’s the case.

You may say “oh, there’re active blocks” or “oh, active condi-cleanse exists!”, but you forget not every build can viably implement that. Hell, you can only really do that IF you build on that specific active block/cleanse. PvP was dumbed down to “press button for cool explosion/many numbers.” I hate to see it become like WoW, especially when it is such a good game.

Some of you may defend it as “becoming like it was in the past where bad positioning ****s you over”, but honestly, even YOU know that’s wrong. A Banner/Shout Bunker Warrior, with 3.5k Toughness, if perfectly-positioned, will still die to that Ranger who has 4k Power. There’s also the argument that the particle effects get in the way of actually doing something about that Final Thrust headed your way, and they kind of do even on minimum settings, but that’s not the point.

The PvP is becoming more and more… skill-deficit, as people put it. The skill ceiling for PvP that everyone is gaping, or was gaping in awe about is very quickly coming down on the playerbase. It’s becoming more about playing ONE build, or being screwed over. ANet wanted to create diversity in the builds? Well, then, why is it that the only really viable things are now:
Hammer/Greatsword Warrior, Greatsword/Scepter+Torch or Scepter+Torch/Hammer Guardian, Shatter Mesmer, Crit-For-Life Thief, or Celest/Cleric’s Elementalist
- as opposed to, you know, the large plate of builds you could just eat the **** up to satisfy your hunger for a Support/Tank Warrior?

ANet wanted to diversify the builds. The only thing they diversified is the concept of build linearity, and it was among the people that loved PvP.

All relative to me, but I hope I was able to somewhat convince you of my conviction to the idea that the builds are no-longer varied. Also, for the people that say “Oh, now it’s only the best man wins!”, that is not it. It’s not the best man. It’s about pure damage and a stunlock-combo. No Hamm/GS build has the ability to break out of stuns, so whoever strikes first wins. There’s no strategy in it. It’s Burst Wars 2, Condi-Burst or Power-Burst.

I’m a bit tired, so I’m sorry if I repeated the same point multiple times. I still can’t believe PvP’s come to this. Well, it has in my eyes. It’s relative.

You’re right and so wrong.
Your diagnosis about too much damage is correct, however e.g.:
→ Shoutbow shouldn’t get killed by… Ranger.
→ Guardian is superior compared to Engi or Necro in terms of support/tanking.

i disagree, you really didnt make any points and you were very vague threw out most of it. Also bunker builds are viable and the best they have ever been since the launch. Its not anet fault players dont want to make bunker characters and support players for solo ques. Ive literally ran into guardians/necros/eles that need at least 2 people to kill or else it would take 3 minutes minimum.

Also build diversity is the best its been in a long time aswell. You do realize we just got out of the every player runs cele ammy right? I run bunker shouts on my guardian and a bunker life force necro and there are matches that people see me and literally just turn around. Also with that said offensive guardians and necros are still useful in pvp so your argument on build diversity is gone to poop.

Lastly you talk about support characters that are eles and yes thats there job and the fact you name 2 other classes that help with that shows there are multiple calsses that can support and you didnt even mention guardian. A warrior camping a spot should die to a ranger who is free casting and warriors have stun breakers 1 utility skill endure the pain and a trait skill called endure the pain and thats just for stances. Please relook your post and actually think it threw since it just seems to be a aimless rant with no direction or point other then you being frustrated.

Morwath.9817:

You’re right and so wrong.
Your diagnosis about too much damage is correct, however e.g.:
-> Shoutbow shouldn’t get killed by… Ranger.
-> Guardian is superior compared to Engi or Necro in terms of support/tanking.

Yes, but the thing is that offensive Guard is so much more effective, what reason is there to play SupportGuard? I mean, after all, 10 burn stacks complete with the 5 second nigh-guarenteed Immobility to LAND those stacks, usually ends up with the burn ticking for 3-5k per SECOND for 7 seconds or so. You can despell the Immobility, Burn, but they can redo that combo within a real short time.

Combine that with the fact that Scep grants massive Might bonuses and that those bonuses can be applied to ALLIES, and that’s not paying mind to the Greatsword… what reason is there not to stack Precision, Condition Damage, and whatever other stat fits their whimsy?

All the classes seem balanced at least till the revenant comes out.

kdaddy.5431:

i disagree, you really didnt make any points and you were very vague threw out most of it. Also bunker builds are viable and the best they have ever been since the launch. Its not anet fault players dont want to make bunker characters and support players for solo ques. Ive literally ran into guardians/necros/eles that need at least 2 people to kill or else it would take 3 minutes minimum.

Also build diversity is the best its been in a long time aswell. You do realize we just got out of the every player runs cele ammy right? I run bunker shouts on my guardian and a bunker life force necro and there are matches that people see me and literally just turn around. Also with that said offensive guardians and necros are still useful in pvp so your argument on build diversity is gone to poop.

Lastly you talk about support characters that are eles and yes thats there job and the fact you name 2 other classes that help with that shows there are multiple calsses that can support and you didnt even mention guardian. A warrior camping a spot should die to a ranger who is free casting and warriors have stun breakers 1 utility skill endure the pain and a trait skill called endure the pain and thats just for stances. Please relook your post and actually think it threw since it just seems to be a aimless rant with no direction or point other then you being frustrated.

Until you actually take a look at things. Use a Guard or Warrior to run a pure defensive build. Use whatever means you deem ‘perfect’ for it. Blocking, healing, just massive HP, whatever you want. Enter Ranked.

Believe me now? Only once in my entire twelve Ranked matches have I seen a somewhat unique build, them being a Thief focused on healing, stealthing allies and buffing them up with sadistic amounts of Might.

and about the variety… you’re right. I was wrong about that… there’re many, many builds you can use! The question is, are they even half as effective as the builds most people use, now? There was always many things you could do with your class in PvP, but… 90% of them aren’t worthwhile in any way.

Also, your final paragraph: thank you. It does support “You run exactly this or you die.”, which isn’t diversity. It’s linearity, forcing people to use ONE specific setup or being shot down. That isn’t diversity.

Morwath.9817:

You’re right and so wrong.
Your diagnosis about too much damage is correct, however e.g.:
-> Shoutbow shouldn’t get killed by… Ranger.
-> Guardian is superior compared to Engi or Necro in terms of support/tanking.

If a character has 4k damage there suppose to do tons of damage. If you let mike tyson punch you in the face in 1986 guess what your down. What is this logic? For the first time in the game bursty playuers are bursty, cele are good all around and bunkers are actual bunkers. Thats the way its suppose to be. If your blindy attacking a player not worrying if someone is behind you or you sit in a necromancers well you should die for being dumb. If i put a deer in a cage with a lion should i not expect the lion to eat it?

towerston.2790:

Morwath.9817:

You’re right and so wrong.
Your diagnosis about too much damage is correct, however e.g.:
-> Shoutbow shouldn’t get killed by… Ranger.
-> Guardian is superior compared to Engi or Necro in terms of support/tanking.

Yes, but the thing is that offensive Guard is so much more effective, what reason is there to play SupportGuard? I mean, after all, 10 burn stacks complete with the 5 second nigh-guarenteed Immobility to LAND those stacks, usually ends up with the burn ticking for 3-5k per SECOND for 7 seconds or so. You can despell the Immobility, Burn, but they can redo that combo within a real short time.

Combine that with the fact that Scep grants massive Might bonuses and that those bonuses can be applied to ALLIES, and that’s not paying mind to the Greatsword… what reason is there not to stack Precision, Condition Damage, and whatever other stat fits their whimsy?

Why would you play Bunker Guard?
Because in competitive play you need node holders and you can leave killing for others, e.g. Mesmers and Thieves, they are better at killing than Guard anyway.

towerston.2790:

kdaddy.5431:

i disagree, you really didnt make any points and you were very vague threw out most of it. Also bunker builds are viable and the best they have ever been since the launch. Its not anet fault players dont want to make bunker characters and support players for solo ques. Ive literally ran into guardians/necros/eles that need at least 2 people to kill or else it would take 3 minutes minimum.

Also build diversity is the best its been in a long time aswell. You do realize we just got out of the every player runs cele ammy right? I run bunker shouts on my guardian and a bunker life force necro and there are matches that people see me and literally just turn around. Also with that said offensive guardians and necros are still useful in pvp so your argument on build diversity is gone to poop.

Lastly you talk about support characters that are eles and yes thats there job and the fact you name 2 other classes that help with that shows there are multiple calsses that can support and you didnt even mention guardian. A warrior camping a spot should die to a ranger who is free casting and warriors have stun breakers 1 utility skill endure the pain and a trait skill called endure the pain and thats just for stances. Please relook your post and actually think it threw since it just seems to be a aimless rant with no direction or point other then you being frustrated.

Until you actually take a look at things. Use a Guard or Warrior to run a pure defensive build. Use whatever means you deem ‘perfect’ for it. Blocking, healing, just massive HP, whatever you want. Enter Ranked.

Believe me now?

your talking to someone who runs a pure bunker and has over 2k wins. Yeah im good and if you want add me in game and i can show you. No need for people to get mean but grab your burst player and we go into a 1 vs 1 room and i say it takes at least 1 min for you to kill me if i dont kill you with my slow condi dmg.

kdaddy.5431:

Morwath.9817:

You’re right and so wrong.
Your diagnosis about too much damage is correct, however e.g.:
-> Shoutbow shouldn’t get killed by… Ranger.
-> Guardian is superior compared to Engi or Necro in terms of support/tanking.

If a character has 4k damage there suppose to do tons of damage. If you let mike tyson punch you in the face in 1986 guess what your down. What is this logic? For the first time in the game bursty playuers are bursty, cele are good all around and bunkers are actual bunkers. Thats the way its suppose to be. If your blindy attacking a player not worrying if someone is behind you or you sit in a necromancers well you should die for being dumb. If i put a deer in a cage with a lion should i not expect the lion to eat it?

I guess, you misunderstood, as usual.
By “shoutbow shouldn’t get killed by… Ranger” I haven’t meant that Ranger shouldn’t have enough damage to melt Shoutbow, but that Ranger is probably the only class that doesn’t have enough damage to do so ;-)

are you eu if you want i have a chance real quick now ill even tell you what i run. I run scepter/focus mace/shield with shouts, shelter and renewed focus. Im on NA so if you want im ready. hes not my best bunker character but hes defintaly my best support player and i wont change anything.

kdaddy.5431:

your talking to someone who runs a pure bunker and has over 2k wins. Yeah im good and if you want add me in game and i can show you. No need for people to get mean but grab your burst player and we go into a 1 vs 1 room and i say it takes at least 1 min for you to kill me if i dont kill you with my slow condi dmg.

Do Ranked. I don’t need to prove myself when you can disprove yourself. If you don’t want to, fine, but don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m saying if you’re unwilling to prove me wrong.

Morwath.9817:

kdaddy.5431:

Morwath.9817:

You’re right and so wrong.
Your diagnosis about too much damage is correct, however e.g.:
-> Shoutbow shouldn’t get killed by… Ranger.
-> Guardian is superior compared to Engi or Necro in terms of support/tanking.

If a character has 4k damage there suppose to do tons of damage. If you let mike tyson punch you in the face in 1986 guess what your down. What is this logic? For the first time in the game bursty playuers are bursty, cele are good all around and bunkers are actual bunkers. Thats the way its suppose to be. If your blindy attacking a player not worrying if someone is behind you or you sit in a necromancers well you should die for being dumb. If i put a deer in a cage with a lion should i not expect the lion to eat it?

I guess, you misunderstood, as usual.
By “shoutbow shouldn’t get killed by… Ranger” I haven’t meant that Ranger shouldn’t have enough damage to melt Shoutbow, but that Ranger is probably the only class that doesn’t have enough damage to do so ;-)

LoL i cant read bro we both know that

towerston.2790:

kdaddy.5431:

your talking to someone who runs a pure bunker and has over 2k wins. Yeah im good and if you want add me in game and i can show you. No need for people to get mean but grab your burst player and we go into a 1 vs 1 room and i say it takes at least 1 min for you to kill me if i dont kill you with my slow condi dmg.

Do Ranked. I don’t need to prove myself when you can disprove yourself. If you don’t want to, fine, but don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m saying if you’re unwilling to prove me wrong.

You usually disprove the scientist. They don’t need to prove themselves to you. Just look at modern science: people’re still asking themselves if alien life exists, yet we found countless samples of it in meteorites!

thats fine you can jump in with me, i will team with you and you can be the judge of whether its a good build. Your talking about something else now completly different now. Your like nba teams talking analytic’s when the most cohesive team with the most talent/skill didnt just win.

kdaddy.5431:

are you eu if you want i have a chance real quick now ill even tell you what i run. I run scepter/focus mace/shield with shouts, shelter and renewed focus. Im on NA so if you want im ready. hes not my best bunker character but hes defintaly my best support player and i wont change anything.

I would suggest you to rethink your build, since;
→ without Staff you can’t properly support in Team Fights and all you can bring is Immoblize on Scepter
→ without Staff you can’t utilize Alltruistic Healing as good and you lose tankiness because of that
→ “Feel My Wrath” is great for quick rezzes and stomps and has only 24s CD with Pure Voice

Morwath.9817:

kdaddy.5431:

are you eu if you want i have a chance real quick now ill even tell you what i run. I run scepter/focus mace/shield with shouts, shelter and renewed focus. Im on NA so if you want im ready. hes not my best bunker character but hes defintaly my best support player and i wont change anything.

I would suggest you to rethink your build, since;
-> without Staff you can’t properly support in Team Fights and all you can bring is Immoblize on Scepter
-> without Staff you can’t utilize Alltruistic Healing as good and you lose tankiness because of that
-> “Feel My Wrath” is great for quick rezzes and stomps and has only 24s CD with Pure Voice

I dont like staff, doesnt feel right to me. Also atm im traited so everytime i use a focus skill it give a teammate a boon and im running the double condi removal and the boon applying abilities. So during a team fight im constantly applying stability/regen/protection and then every time i use the F2 skill it removes 3 condi from any team member around me. The might stacking i leave to other people my focus skills will give you regen so forth.

Morwath.9817:

I guess, you misunderstood, as usual.
By “shoutbow shouldn’t get killed by… Ranger” I haven’t meant that Ranger shouldn’t have enough damage to melt Shoutbow, but that Ranger is probably the only class that doesn’t have enough damage to do so ;-)

Well, it was mostly an example, but I’ve seen a few classes that logically shouldn’t be able to easily melt a Tank do just that. I’ve had a Mesmer hit me with Mind Stab for 12k when I have 3.5k Toughness. The issue with that is that the Mesmer is supposed to be Supportive, not a frontline, offensive class.

Hell, the Guardian has become less of a Tank and more of a Warrior in that same way. HP nerf, power buff.

kdaddy.5431:

thats fine you can jump in with me, i will team with you and you can be the judge of whether its a good build. Your talking about something else now completly different now. Your like nba teams talking analytic’s when the most cohesive team with the most talent/skill didnt just win.

Except now, as my main point goes, it’s not talent, skill, knowledge, observation that win the game: it’s pure math.

towerston.2790:

kdaddy.5431:

thats fine you can jump in with me, i will team with you and you can be the judge of whether its a good build. Your talking about something else now completly different now. Your like nba teams talking analytic’s when the most cohesive team with the most talent/skill didnt just win.

Except now, as my main point goes, it’s not talent, skill, knowledge, observation that win the game: it’s pure math.

Still disagree, only mesmers are crazy op atm and burn damage that doesnt make anything you said right. Also im yet to see a mesmer dominate in team play so though they are the op there not the game changer.

kdaddy.5431:

Still disagree, only mesmers are crazy op atm and burn damage that doesnt make anything you said right. Also im yet to see a mesmer dominate in team play so though they are the op there not the game changer.

oRNG played last tournament with double Mesmer.
I guess we may see some double Mesmer compositions tomorrow.

kdaddy.5431:

Still disagree, only mesmers are crazy op atm and burn damage that doesnt make anything you said right. Also im yet to see a mesmer dominate in team play so though they are the op there not the game changer.

What’d you call a Shatter Mes’ that blinds, confuses your entire team at once?