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Posted by: Anastasis.7258

Anastasis.7258

1. Dagger/Dagger Celestial Elementalist.
2. Rune of Vampirism.
3. Burning Stacks/Damage.
4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 10 sec CD.
5. Ranger’s Taunt from pet goes through Block/Dodge.
6. Necromancer’s Signet of Vampirism goes through Block/Dodge/Invulnerability.
7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

To be Continued…

Here is the vote for people to provide their opinion for this document.
http://strawpoll.me/5511215

The purpose of this post is to help the community to understand what’s the current game changing element in this PvP meta, and also help developers to have a more clear view when they doing the balance.

Thanks for the reading

(edited by Anastasis.7258)

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Posted by: Drennon.7190

Drennon.7190

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 0 CD.

It’s not listed in the tooltip, but there is a 10 second CD per ally. Ignorance is typically what gets thief nerfed. Funny that you didn’t mention anything about warrior in your post. I feel that rampages damage is still too strong.

Baer

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Posted by: runeblade.7514

runeblade.7514

2. Rune of Vampirism.

The bug got fixed.

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 0 CD.
6. Necromancer’s Signet of Vampirism goes through Block/Dodge/Invulnerability.
7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

I don’t see anything wrong with these.

5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant

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Posted by: Zefrost.3425

Zefrost.3425

7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

I had to lmfao at this.

The once upon a time considered to be a top warrior complaining about what is effectively a weaker version of defiant (due to ICD) stance on a necromancer.

Do you know what the counter is when a necromancer uses that skill? Don’t hit him. Do you hit a warrior with defiant stance? Hilarious that I should even have to tell you that. Unless he’s a large burst away from being dead, all you’re doing is healing him.

The best way for a necro to utilize spectral armor vs a warrior is to save it for when the warrior uses berserker stance so that the necro can survive the warrior for the duration. Do you know what counters necromancer? CC. I guess the warrior doesn’t have any CC though.

Maybe you should get some l2p tips from Rom.

(edited by Zefrost.3425)

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 0 CD.

It’s not listed in the tooltip, but there is a 10 second CD per ally. Ignorance is typically what gets thief nerfed. Funny that you didn’t mention anything about warrior in your post. I feel that rampages damage is still too strong.

this^^

2. Rune of Vampirism.

The bug got fixed.

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 0 CD.
6. Necromancer’s Signet of Vampirism goes through Block/Dodge/Invulnerability.
7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

I don’t see anything wrong with these.

and this^^

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: Readymade.1672

Readymade.1672

Ignoring the usual ignorant pvp forum chatter….

This list is both correct in its identification of balance problems and its prioritization (1-7) of what needs to be fixed.

NA’s Original Staff Elementalist

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Posted by: Anastasis.7258

Anastasis.7258

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 0 CD.

It’s not listed in the tooltip, but there is a 10 second CD per ally. Ignorance is typically what gets thief nerfed. Funny that you didn’t mention anything about warrior in your post. I feel that rampages damage is still too strong.

Ok roger that, sorry for misunderstand of the trait. And what needs nerf as a warrior? Rampage is already nerfed in its CD and its easily countered by blind/weakness/slow/kiting, you name it. So I don’t think its OP with such long CD but it’s definitely a game changer.

Thanks for the heads up bud!

(edited by Anastasis.7258)

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Posted by: Phil.8901

Phil.8901

1-3-5-6 are ok, other stuff not.

2 is necessary to survive from Stealth mega burst (mainly Mesmer). If you nerf stealth opening burst, we can discuss about it.
4 is the main reason (with shortbow #5) because thief d/p SA are meta. This doesn’t mean a longer CD is a bad idea but it needs to be compensated with an overall thief strength improvement.
7- Necro are really tanky but it’s a combination of multiple reasons, not only one.

(edited by Phil.8901)

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Posted by: Unholy Pillager.3791

Unholy Pillager.3791

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 0 CD.

It’s not listed in the tooltip, but there is a 10 second CD per ally. Ignorance is typically what gets thief nerfed. Funny that you didn’t mention anything about warrior in your post. I feel that rampages damage is still too strong.

Ok roger that, sorry for misunderstand of the trait. And what needs nerf as a warrior? Rampage is already nerfed in its CD and its easily countered by blind/weakness/slow/kiting, you name it. So I don’t think its OP with such long CD but it’s definitely a game changer.

Thanks for the heads up bud!

Warriors have taken to using berserker stance just before activating rampage, making them immune to blindness, weakness and soft cc for the first 8 seconds of it. That, plus their cc and movement skills, makes it impossible to kite during that time.

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Posted by: Patchi.9061

Patchi.9061

7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

I had to lmfao at this.

The once upon a time considered to be a top warrior complaining about what is effectively a weaker version of defiant (due to ICD) stance on a necromancer.

Do you know what the counter is when a necromancer uses that skill? Don’t hit him. Do you hit a warrior with defiant stance? Hilarious that I should even have to tell you that. Unless he’s a large burst away from being dead, all you’re doing is healing him.

The best way for a necro to utilize spectral armor vs a warrior is to save it for when the warrior uses berserker stance so that the necro can survive the warrior for the duration. Do you know what counters necromancer? CC. I guess the warrior doesn’t have any CC though.

Maybe you should get some l2p tips from Rom.

Hey man, did you know that drinking water helps maintain a Healthy Salt level in the body?
No need to bash on anyone in order to have a proper conversation. Necro at its state is incredibly powerful. The nerf of d/d ele will immediatly result in people turning to Cele necro and other viable Bruiser builds. His point was not completley invalid.
I don’t really know much about the overall state of the meta as I have not yet formed a team and participated in high level of competitve play. Nonetheless, do drink some water friend.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

I had to lmfao at this.

The once upon a time considered to be a top warrior complaining about what is effectively a weaker version of defiant (due to ICD) stance on a necromancer.

Do you know what the counter is when a necromancer uses that skill? Don’t hit him. Do you hit a warrior with defiant stance? Hilarious that I should even have to tell you that. Unless he’s a large burst away from being dead, all you’re doing is healing him.

The best way for a necro to utilize spectral armor vs a warrior is to save it for when the warrior uses berserker stance so that the necro can survive the warrior for the duration. Do you know what counters necromancer? CC. I guess the warrior doesn’t have any CC though.

Maybe you should get some l2p tips from Rom.

Hey man, did you know that drinking water helps maintain a Healthy Salt level in the body?
No need to bash on anyone in order to have a proper conversation. Necro at its state is incredibly powerful. The nerf of d/d ele will immediatly result in people turning to Cele necro and other viable Bruiser builds. His point was not completley invalid.
I don’t really know much about the overall state of the meta as I have not yet formed a team and participated in high level of competitve play. Nonetheless, do drink some water friend.

Actually, nerfs to D/D ele are indirect nerfs to Cele Signet Necro. The build is really nothing special except that it checks D/D ele.

Nerf its niche and the build falls out of favor.

It would be like when Decap Engie was popular, but instead of changing what they did, they instead made all capture points much larger. That would have seriously hurt the build’s viability without touching the build itself.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)

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Posted by: Agemnon.4608

Agemnon.4608

Thief needs a serious buff especially in light of reveal. I say shadow arts should have complete reveal immunity in a trait while deadly arts should have a traitline where reveal gives a real buff and not just 200 power. Because reveal is a new status effect and you’d need to choose the reveal immunity over other options I say buff other traits to avoid a net nerf for SA thieves.

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Posted by: Unholy Pillager.3791

Unholy Pillager.3791

7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

I had to lmfao at this.

The once upon a time considered to be a top warrior complaining about what is effectively a weaker version of defiant (due to ICD) stance on a necromancer.

Do you know what the counter is when a necromancer uses that skill? Don’t hit him. Do you hit a warrior with defiant stance? Hilarious that I should even have to tell you that. Unless he’s a large burst away from being dead, all you’re doing is healing him.

The best way for a necro to utilize spectral armor vs a warrior is to save it for when the warrior uses berserker stance so that the necro can survive the warrior for the duration. Do you know what counters necromancer? CC. I guess the warrior doesn’t have any CC though.

Maybe you should get some l2p tips from Rom.

Hey man, did you know that drinking water helps maintain a Healthy Salt level in the body?
No need to bash on anyone in order to have a proper conversation. Necro at its state is incredibly powerful. The nerf of d/d ele will immediatly result in people turning to Cele necro and other viable Bruiser builds. His point was not completley invalid.
I don’t really know much about the overall state of the meta as I have not yet formed a team and participated in high level of competitve play. Nonetheless, do drink some water friend.

The problem with that hypothesis is that cele necros are too specialized and too immobile to take over the role of cele eles. Instead of constant sustain, they just have tons of hit points to burn through, making them less effective during longer fights. Also, they lack stability, and they lack the straight up invulnerability that elementalists can use to prolong an unfavorable fight to wait for backup. Plus, more of the stats are wasted: less access to burning means that the condition damage part of the cele amulet isn’t put to very good use. Don’t get me wrong, cele necros are extremely good at what they do…you’ll just never see them stacking 4 to a team and winning tournaments. They can’t.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Thieves are fine.
Warriors are fine.
Necros are fine.

Rangers are fine with the exception of the Taunt effect going through block so it is deemed annoying to players. Not OP though.

Cele d/d ele is not fine
The crazy burn burst from that 1 class is not fine

There’s a huge difference between annoying and overpowered. Chose C on the strawpost.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

(edited by Saiyan.1704)

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Posted by: Mefiq.7039

Mefiq.7039

1. Dagger/Dagger Celestial Elementalist.
Agreed
3. Burning Stacks/Damage.
Its basicly same as 1st. If u nerf burning Ele will revert to his old “im not support nor hard dps” playstyle that was atleast healthy.

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 10 sec CD.
Do u even thief mate?Why ppl think stealth is god mode, you can still hit them with your dumb 100blades

5. Ranger’s Taunt from pet goes through Block/Dodge.
6. Necromancer’s Signet of Vampirism goes through Block/Dodge/Invulnerability.
7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.
Just LoL… U know how to not get taunted? DONT STAY NEAR PET… Signet of vampirism is very important heal for necro, if enemy could counter play it with single dodge necros would be decimated in matter of sec. And you know what? There is not even 1 necro heal with fast cast speed, everysingle necro heal can be rupted…

Fix shadowsteps on thief to stop eating initiative if they fail to teleport
Change dmg on every skill, its ok for any class to autoattack and they should use thier OTHER spells when they need it (kinda like thief) there shouldnt be 3sec knockdown spell with 3k dmg there should not be any stun/daze spell for kittenton of dmg, if player needs CC he/she will use it, dont make this game 12345 swap 12345 swap cuz thats just dumb (Warriors or Rangers i look at you).
There are many things that need to be fixed…

“Im speaker of Truth” – Mefiq.7039 2015

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Posted by: WOW.9653

WOW.9653

DFTC supports this thread

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Posted by: Kolly.9872

Kolly.9872

2. Rune of Vampirism.

I would remove every passive effect attivation from runes and traits:
such as remove/give X thing when healt reach the % threshold

Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

2. Rune of Vampirism.

I would remove every passive effect attivation from runes and traits:
such as remove/give X thing when healt reach the % threshold

+1
These should be an active effect that can only be triggered at 20%-30% health. All these passive effects ahould be a trigget F3-F5 or another key action.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
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Posted by: Unholy Pillager.3791

Unholy Pillager.3791

2. Rune of Vampirism.

I would remove every passive effect attivation from runes and traits:
such as remove/give X thing when healt reach the % threshold

+1
These should be an active effect that can only be triggered at 20%-30% health. All these passive effects ahould be a trigget F3-F5 or another key action.

f1-f5 are all used for profession mechanics. They’re running out of keys that can be used.

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

What’s wrong with Spectral Armor active in Shroud? Or did you mean SA proc when Transformed (Lich/Plague)?

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[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
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Posted by: Flumek.9043

Flumek.9043

The spectral skill didnt work at first in shroud and cz of coding they still end when using elite transforms.

It is intended so i really dont know whats wrong with it?
Its protection + 6k DS hp, so its CD and duration are all normal for a pseudo invuln.

I still gave it an accurate

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Posted by: Elxdark.9702

Elxdark.9702

lol tarcis don’t even try to post something here, you see the forum warriors are already up to counter everything you say.

The above list is indeed correct for whoever has played at the higher level, those who don’t they won’t understand simple as that.

For god’s sake people, you can’t say #4 is fine, it’s the most kittened trait in thief lines.

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

The necro stuff seems a bit ignorant, and not just because I play Necro. (Some of the rest is on point, some of it isn’t, and the list certainly isn’t the best list that could be made.)

Signet of Vampirism HAD to be made in such a way it goes through defensive effects, because the debuff itself doesn’t DO anything (of course, I’d be in support of not boon ripping if they dodged. That’s a fair critique.) The actual heal portion, you can still technically block the damage/healing because while you’re blocking, people aren’t proccing it.

The Spectral Armor… If you actually do the math, it’s a 50 second cooldown stun break and 4-7k absorption… Like… C’mon now… Necros get focused enough, one extra sponge on a 50 second cooldown isn’t going to be the end of the world. Could it be a tad strong? Possibly, but it making your top 10 list is a bit silly if you ask me.

Burning damage may need a small adjustment downward, but mostly, Ele needs less stacks on certain skills, and actually, other conditions (Torment, Bleeding, Poison) need to get a decent boost. Currently, burning hits about 4-5 times as hard, and because of this is significantly more reliable at dealing damage. Other conditions need to be brought into meaningful use.

Runes of Vamp are a garbage crutch, wouldn’t mind seeing them go, honestly…

The thief stuff doesn’t seem that bad to me… Pretty standard to cleave kill anyways, thief will still probably get his kitten handed to him if he’s not careful.

Taunt needs a LOT of fixes. Funny how fixing the Taunt/Resistance bug wasn’t on the list. x.X

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Nova Stiker.8396

Nova Stiker.8396

Add Rampage to that list.

It’s not overpowered, it just promotes bad play styles. I’ve met too many warriors that rely 100% on that elite for victory, nothing else.

(edited by Nova Stiker.8396)

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

Add Rampage to that list.

It’s not overpowered, it just promotes bad play styles. I’ve met too many warriors that rely 100% on that elite for Victory, nothing else.

I don’t think that would be convenient for this person’s list. :P

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Posted by: Anastasis.7258

Anastasis.7258

Add Rampage to that list.

It’s not overpowered, it just promotes bad play styles. I’ve met too many warriors that rely 100% on that elite for Victory, nothing else.

I don’t think that would be convenient for this person’s list. :P

I was one of the reason why Rampage was nerfed from the last balance patch. A lot people gathered together in a Skype group and think about how to nerf rampage. Me and Rom was the one saying to make the CD increase to 180. And people was saying even engi’s rampage is way better now due to its elixir duration and short CD, and they can counter rampage so easy by turning them into moa without an obvious animation. Idk about the salt of saying it won’t consider in my list but this just getting annoy. You don’t even know I’m a good part of reason why warrior was nerfed so much compare from 2014 to now. The adrenaline punishment and so on you call it.

(edited by Anastasis.7258)

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Posted by: Shadow.1345

Shadow.1345

For god’s sake people, you can’t say #4 is fine, it’s the most kittened trait in thief lines.

Could you elaborate on why it is?

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

I can only really agree to number 1.

Vamp runes are a double edged sword, how many times have you been interrupted by them procing when you want to heal?

Burn is fine, as a condition and it’s formulae. What isn’t fine are the skills that apply burning allowing you to stack 12 burns in a second.

Bleeds are not fine but we don’t see that on your “balance” list. They’re pathetically weak and need a slight buff.

I don’t have a problem with thief stealthing people while they Rez them. Trait is an old one, just no-one ever took it.

Taunt going through blocks and dodges, not seen it enough to really be that concerned at but I don’t care if it’s changed.

Signet of vampirism needs a huge buff in cast time otherwise and mark duration so people can actually get use from it.

I do not think necros need more punishment for being in death shroud. It’s bad enough they can only use their innate life stealing to heal. They are very easy to CC and lock down, if that was changed I might agree but not in the current state of necro.

Additionally as you stated later, what about engineers elixir X? That thing is shutting down most transforms with the toss and is pretty much the only rampage anyone sees now at 84s cool down to next try for rampage.

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Posted by: Hubris.7436

Hubris.7436

1. Dagger/Dagger Celestial Elementalist.
2. Rune of Vampirism.
3. Burning Stacks/Damage.
4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 10 sec CD.
5. Ranger’s Taunt from pet goes through Block/Dodge.
6. Necromancer’s Signet of Vampirism goes through Block/Dodge/Invulnerability.
7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

Idk what making this list will do tbh. I think giving ideas for fixing these perceived issues would be more productive than just listing them.

Personally, I agree having cele d/d ele as #1 priority is accurate. I don’t think I really need to go into why. The rest of these.. I wouldn’t really care if they were changed or not.

Not sure why rune of vampirism needs to be changed..

I don’t think burning stacks are that bad, if you actually pay attention to the classes that apply them they are pretty easily countered using dodges or blocks. Also, pretty much every match I play I bring some sort of condi removal no matter what class I’m playing. It is what it is. If you don’t bring any you are setting yourself up for failure.

I wouldn’t mind if merciful ambush had its cd increased, but I also don’t care if it isn’t. If you just pay attention and cleave on downs it isn’t such a big issue.

Ranger taunt has been kittened about a lot, I think anet just needs to define what it can and can’t do. I think it shouldn’t go through evades for sure, but it being unblockable isn’t such a bad thing.

Signet of vampirism just allows it to be applied through invuln/block/evade. If you have signets of suffering traited this means you remove 2 boons, you don’t apply 2 conditions though (assuming you try to use it during block/evade/invuln). I don’t think this game breaking and agree with it being low priority.

I don’t even play necro much anymore and I couldn’t care less about spectral armor popping during death shroud. With reaper, we’ll see reaper’s autos building life force. I don’t see building life force in death shroud as a thing that really needs to be fixed.

TL;DR fix ele, don’t care about the rest

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Posted by: witcher.3197

witcher.3197

Spectral skills are fine.

Shoutbow needs a nerf imo, it’s a thing again on EU and it’s so cancer.. if ele gets nerfed they’ll just simly replace them.

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Posted by: Coronit.9432

Coronit.9432

Spectral skills are fine.

Shoutbow needs a nerf imo, it’s a thing again on EU and it’s so cancer.. if ele gets nerfed they’ll just simly replace them.

I´m not sure about that, if burning get tuned down, it also effects shoutbow. I think its the only class using settlers-amulet right now? And it provides the warris 2 more or less viable builds. I don´t think there is a nerf needed right now, maybe in future.

What is the problem with thief-stealth-rezz? Apparently it has a ICD, it gives us thieves the possibility to support and allows great possibilities when used correctly. (if you want it to get nerfed beacause to strong, then you also have to nerf ele downstate-vaporform to go through portals. But then we lack awesome combos and game-moves like that in the go4cup. Thats moves make the game much more fun and entertaining

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Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

I am gonna respond for nothing other than the people who claim that regular forum people have no saying in what is balanced or not…

Purely wondering; if it bothers you that people have different opinions, or if you are so sure of your case and all these “lowlife plebs”* know nothing – why bother posting this on the forums? There are a plethora of ways to avoid “these people’s opinions.
Being an elitist who does nothing else than saying that people’s” opinions do not matter for whatever reason without explaining what is wrong in the first place serves for nothing but sad invalidated opinions that cannot be justified other than “I am a top tier player hurr durr!!”

This community is pure sadness sometimes… the game doesn’t even have a proper competitive scene, and you still got people pretending as if it matters…

*not a direct quote

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Posted by: silentnight warrior.2714

silentnight warrior.2714

I agree with all you posted, Anastasis.
Ofc there will be more things to balance if this changes go forward but one thing at a time.

As people already stated in this tread, Rampage now is anoying but not op, so i can see why its not on your list. (I know you are responsible for some warriors nerfs… try to not nerf warrior even more )

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 10 sec CD.

As i said the list is prety much spot on. This one used right can avoid a stomp with the stealth and can ress a player very quickly, it seams that is also bugged and it revives 20% faster when it should be 10% faster. Maybe just the bug fix would be enough.

5. Ranger’s Taunt from pet goes through Block/Dodge.

They really need to change this.

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Posted by: silentnight warrior.2714

silentnight warrior.2714

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 0 CD.

It’s not listed in the tooltip, but there is a 10 second CD per ally. Ignorance is typically what gets thief nerfed. Funny that you didn’t mention anything about warrior in your post. I feel that rampages damage is still too strong.

Ok roger that, sorry for misunderstand of the trait. And what needs nerf as a warrior? Rampage is already nerfed in its CD and its easily countered by blind/weakness/slow/kiting, you name it. So I don’t think its OP with such long CD but it’s definitely a game changer.

Thanks for the heads up bud!

Warriors have taken to using berserker stance just before activating rampage, making them immune to blindness, weakness and soft cc for the first 8 seconds of it. That, plus their cc and movement skills, makes it impossible to kite during that time.

Stealth, stability, movement skills,positioning, ports, blocks, invulnerabilitys, boon removal for long hard CC or quick chains of hard CC, Death Shroud can help in that time.
After BS is over add blinds, weakness, boon corruption and soft CC to the list.

Some warriors use instead Healing Signet active for the resistance bonus but its not efective because the duration is lower and can be striped / corrupted and they are without heal for 20/16sec.

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Posted by: Mefiq.7039

Mefiq.7039

Spectral skills are fine.

Shoutbow needs a nerf imo, it’s a thing again on EU and it’s so cancer.. if ele gets nerfed they’ll just simly replace them.

I play shoutbow alot, its very powerful (in terms of survi) build but i wouldnt say that he depends on burning in 1v1 situation, most of time i just stack insane amounts of bleeds with Pindown-Sword engage- sword f1 – swap(with geo runes) what can stack bleeds so hard, i never saw more than 3/4 stack burning every bow rotation (and fireshield in sword). Still shoutbow has same problem as ever, 0 stability easy to lock down, i still like it more than shoutguard cuz it deals way more dmg and its better for burst comps(3 immob skills weaknes/swiftness on warhorn)

“Im speaker of Truth” – Mefiq.7039 2015

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Posted by: Moonlit.6421

Moonlit.6421

Why do people still make these threads when they always end the same way? All it ever turns into is a bunch of people arguing about their opinion and why Anet hates their class and everything else is op, etc etc etc.

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Posted by: Photinous.4628

Photinous.4628

I thought the proper process was to give this list to backpack so he can directly send it to grouch?

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

I think the best process, in the long run, is to handle class balance through proper feedback and self criticism on your class forums and putting forth enough information from the class “leads” for their individual developers (Karl, Gee, Roy, etc.) and forging a better means of communication and feedback.

At least, that’s the experience I’ve had so far. It works best and people who know their own classes are the best at nerfing themselves without breaking the class when put to the task of self identifying areas they may be too strong in.

Class finger pointing has rarely been constructive, though it has gotten results a few times (Turret engi, Ele a long time ago), but the result is often not good.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Puck.9612

Puck.9612

Why did you title this “balance” if all you are asking for are nerfs?
Where are suggestions like giving ranger access to boon stripping?
Change the title or fix the thread.

Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended

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Posted by: Industry.9362

Industry.9362

7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

Unless I missed something and it is bugged in some way I am not aware, this is not and should not be possible. When entering shroud spectral armor is removed as per the tooltip. The trait that auto procs it does so off a health threshold so if you are already in shroud it shouldn’t be possible to set it off and you cannot manually use it since all utilities are locked in shroud.

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

Unless I missed something and it is bugged in some way I am not aware, this is not and should not be possible. When entering shroud spectral armor is removed as per the tooltip. The trait that auto procs it does so off a health threshold so if you are already in shroud it shouldn’t be possible to set it off and you cannot manually use it since all utilities are locked in shroud.

Tooltips weren’t adjusted, but this was changed a long time ago.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Industry.9362

Industry.9362

7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

Unless I missed something and it is bugged in some way I am not aware, this is not and should not be possible. When entering shroud spectral armor is removed as per the tooltip. The trait that auto procs it does so off a health threshold so if you are already in shroud it shouldn’t be possible to set it off and you cannot manually use it since all utilities are locked in shroud.

Tooltips weren’t adjusted, but this was changed a long time ago.

Just checked the wiki and even the tooltip there wasn’t updated. The footnote saying it is usable right before shrouding now is from 2013.

Get it together ANet.


Thanks for pointing that out, I had stopped playing around that time. I learned something today.

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Posted by: lilz shorty.1879

lilz shorty.1879

Lmao. All I see is noobs being noobs here and ignorance is a bliss.

“Morfeus X” || Team: Apex Prime
“Best Guardian NA”

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Posted by: Coronit.9432

Coronit.9432

Lmao. All I see is noobs being noobs here and ignorance is a bliss.

Then enlighten us?
I mean it.
I can´t play since 1 month and 2 more weeks and try to stay up to date.

Thief for Live – Noc
Pls more Noc-Noc-Jokes…
How to counter Unrelenting Assault… Not anymore :<

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Posted by: Anastasis.7258

Anastasis.7258

So let me explain something so people can discuss more. The reason why I have these things on the list is because not that are op, it is because that they are all game changers with very little to none counter play. I will explain each of them individually that what’s in my opinion.

1. Dagger/Dagger Celestial Elementalist, it is a game changer due to the that if a player plays decent, they can survive and kiting a decent amount of the time in 1v2 or 1v3 situation, not only that, the they have everything in the game, teleport, mobility, burning stacks, condition cleanse, blind spamming, you name it. The only counter to dd ele is if you have a way to one shot them (thief mesmer) or chill and boon rip them in the right time (nercomancer). But when an ele uses vamp rune, these counter will be even harder to happen.

2. Rune of Vampirism- When you see everyone using the same rune, you know it’s overpowered. The fact it is a game changer because it rewards player’s bad plays from over-extending in a team fight and can still survive with the mist form proc, this rune benefit the most on thief, mesmer, ele, and engineer. The only counter to this rune is if you can one shot them when their hp is >= 20%, or condi bomb them before they going to the mist, which normally won’t happen. Another thing is that in the mist form, it also increase player’s movement speed by 33% as I remember. In conclusion it’s a passive proc with very nice power stats and very nice leeching proc that boost dmg and survivability at the same time.

3. Burning Stacks and damage, the problem mainly came from dd ele and maybe burning guardian. Dd ele with their burning stacks kills everything in the game while they remain as tankier as a bunker guardian. Burning guardian is easier to counter but if player doesn’t react fast enough they might get one shot by the burning stacks provided from burn guards. A lot of counter plays to the burn stacks but just the fact it is too powerful consider it is a passive overtime damage.

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush- This trait has 0 counter when it comes to thief + elementalist combination. Stealth the ele before they mist form away will guarantee the ress 100% without any mechanic requirements but just pressing interact key. This is a big game changer because of its short iCD that allows thieves be able to trigger this trait several time in one team fight. In conclusion this trait is easily to pull out with very tiny chance to counter once it comes to a team play.

5. Ranger’s taunt, this is mainly a bug because I believe nothing in the game should goes through dodge. Taunt shouldn’t go through Block either because that’s how it work from Berserk taunt and Revenant taunt.

6. Nerco’s Vampirism signet- same as ranger ’s taunt, but this one can also go through invul, and it will also corrupt 2 boons, guess nothing should be able to goes through dodge/invul/or even obstructed unless its a ground target skill.

7. Nerco’s spectral armor under DS mode, this one I have to talk about. It it not overpowered but people have to learn how to fight against this. The trick a nerco will abuse is they pop Spectral Armor and then go in Death Shroud. This trick is really powerful because it will absorb all the incoming damage and make yourself pretty much invul for 6 seconds. Under the effect of protection, a nerco can easily absorb 3~4 people’s damage for their team and wasting enemies’ burst CD to ensure that their teammate stay in a healthy environment. This is a big game changer because people still don’t know how to fight against this. In fact, there are no solutions yet to against this Spectral Armor + Death Shroud combination. Condition isn’t the answer due to the fact you need to hit them to apply condition, which they are also absorbing them too, not even talking about that they can passively transfer the condition back. This combination I normally joke around that it is a 10x better version compare to any other invul in this game. It is really strong with very little counter play. Most of the people might need to learn how to fight against this, same as you see warrior’s endure pain, you kite them until their endure pain is gone, but against Spectral Amor + Death Shroud, you must kite them while not attacking them because if you do, you are feeding nerco to gain lots of life force to be even tankier, but if you don’t attack them, they are not taking any damage and the fact they can always go in Death Shroud mode again every 10 sec, so it is different story compare to other invul like Elixir S, mist form, etc. Tt confuses player that think you are still doing damage on the Nerco but the fact it is pretty much under Endure Pain and Berserker Stance at the same time. And this is the reason why I put this on the list. Little to none counter play so far imo.

(edited by Anastasis.7258)

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Posted by: Coronit.9432

Coronit.9432

“4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush- This trait has 0 counter when it comes to thief + elementalist combination. Stealth the ele before they mist form away will guarentee the ress 100% without any mechanic requirements but just pressing interact key. This is a big game changer because of its short iCD that allows thieves be able to trigger this trait several time in one team fight. In conclusion this trait is easily to pull out with very tiny chance to counter once it comes to a team play.”

Hm, it actually has/gets like the most direct hardcounters ever with all that reveal-traits/utilities flying around ^^

Thief for Live – Noc
Pls more Noc-Noc-Jokes…
How to counter Unrelenting Assault… Not anymore :<

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Posted by: Terrorsquad.4802

Terrorsquad.4802

2. Rune of Vampirism.

The bug got fixed.

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 0 CD.
6. Necromancer’s Signet of Vampirism goes through Block/Dodge/Invulnerability.
7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

I don’t see anything wrong with these.

The bug did not get fixed. Ppl can still use their f-skills in mist form.

Denied NA Account | 8.4k hours | 5.6k Games | Bored

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Posted by: Avigrus.2871

Avigrus.2871

Whining about spectral armour with all the other rubbish in the game… unbelievable.

Let me guess – no nerfs for your preferred profession?

80 Necro (5), 80 Guard (4), 80 Mesmer (3)
80 Ranger (3), 80 Warrior (3), 80 Thief (3)
80 Ele (2), 80 Engi (3), 80 Rev (2)

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Posted by: Unholy Pillager.3791

Unholy Pillager.3791

2. Rune of Vampirism.

The bug got fixed.

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 0 CD.
6. Necromancer’s Signet of Vampirism goes through Block/Dodge/Invulnerability.
7. Necromancer’s Spectral Armor while in Death Shroud Mode.

I don’t see anything wrong with these.

The bug did not get fixed. Ppl can still use their f-skills in mist form.

The bug was that elementalists’ downed health was reset after mistform if they ran vamp runes.

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Posted by: Drennon.7190

Drennon.7190

So you want one of thieves only “support” traits nerfed, due to elementalist being able to mist form….?

Baer