Guild Wars 2

Sly.9518:

the same two things Woe is Necro and Teef Op… and when you link the same video from 2013 to [..] justify your post in a lot of them…

Clearly, there’s some upset on your part and for this I apologise.

The vast majority of other posters are saying similar things; Woe IS Necro, and Thief IS OP. The video remains relevant to this day – it’s age is irrelevant.

I want you to know that I respect your opinion but that I find your position to be obviously untenable. Perhaps you enjoy a challenge on the forum because you don’t get one in the game.

the vast majority of players dont even post on the forums.

its the unhappy vocal minority that post.

who is more likely to post the people having fun and are engrossed in the game ?

Or the person who is frustrated and upset?

Not hard is it.

Huh? Necros are in a fantastic spot in WVW and SPVP… and used in some recent unofficial tournaments.

Erzian.5218:

Svarty.8019:

Sly.9518:

the same two things Woe is Necro and Teef Op… and when you link the same video from 2013 to [..] justify your post in a lot of them…

Clearly, there’s some upset on your part and for this I apologise.

The vast majority of other posters are saying similar things; Woe IS Necro, and Thief IS OP. The video remains relevant to this day – it’s age is irrelevant.

I want you to know that I respect your opinion but that I find your position to be obviously untenable. Perhaps you enjoy a challenge on the forum because you don’t get one in the game.

Necro struggles in solo queue. It is fine as soon as you have a competent ele with you. Thief is top tier (perhaps op) but it has nothing to do with that outdated video.

60-70% winrate without an ele solo q as a necro.

A supported necromancer can do great things, but need a real support that Always keep him alive. The ele is perfect because can heal, clean conditions and CC his enemies, keeping him alive even in a team fight.
A necromancer without a support, or with a support that don’t care about him (as many time happen) isn’t able to play.

Pro Teams in Torunaments can play with a necro without having issues only because they play as a team, have always they’re support to heal and help the necromancer and are able to focus the right enemy at the right time, spamming CC on the enemy that is focusing they’re necro for example, and able to take down an enemy with a perfectly coordinated burst. It’s a Team Play, comething that was stripped away from GW2 sPvP since the Solo/Dup Queue. In a Team you can chose and play your strategy, make synergic builds and do great things. In SoloQ you take what you find. The best example can be the builds used by top team necros: full corruption without any single defensive skill and frequently also without Soul Reaping. That because they don’t need to waste skills in Poor defensive skills, they have a full team to protect them, making them able to play as more offensively as they can, corrupting boons all the time and granting to they’re team a real offensive support.

In Solo/DuoQ if you have a friend that play ele and want to be your babysitter all the time you can do something, outherway you’re totally unable to do any kind of good things. How’s the actual “meta” build for necros? Power based with all the possible defensive skills and traits, with a single corruption skill. Don’t you see a little difference? Don’t you ever wandered why there’s a so huge difference between that two Meta builds?
When you’re solo you Need to be able to survive. If you can’t you’re useless. The ele will not stay with you all the time only to make you survive a little longer, no one will help you spamming CC on the enemy that is chasing you, no one will care about you and everyone will scream to you if you die or are unable to do good things. That’s how Solo/DuoQ work: if you’re unable to survive by yourself you’re only a problem for your team.
At higher levels that change, but only if you go over the Gold because from the gold and down below there’s no one that will play his match as a babysitter only for you.

The necromancer is balanced around Team Fights and is good and can inflict good damage and corrupt boon all the time long, but Need Support 24h/24h (better if by an ele) and a team that know how to play with a necro, supporting and helping him all the time. Then the necro can become able to do something really useful for his team.
The SoloQ runed all that making the necro weak and unable to find a team that support him. In SoloQ no one will care of you and no one will help you, unless you’re in legendary and find players that know how to play with you.

A rework on the necromancer is Needed if we want to play as Solo/Duo Queue. Without a real buff to our offensive OR defensive skills we can nothope to be a real viable class in sPvP. In tournaments there’s no problems but in SoloQ the things go really bad for a necromancer.

Sly.9518:

Those good players on Necro don’t complain and in yolo Queue make it pretty far into the top 100 just saying.

Hugely overskilling most of your opponents because there aren’t enough high level players to make a decent match doesn’t say anything about the state of balance.

Also necromancer is one of the least represented classes on the leaderboard.

The top 100 necros players don’t complain because they don’t get to see the issues that the rest of us are complaining about.

Make a necros, level it to 80, and go do spvp, then come back and say that.

Youll be focused down and killed the second the other team realizes you exist in an instant.

My condi build is a staff/ scepter warhorn build. The last match I played today had, not a guardian, not an ele, but a warrior who seemed completely unaffected by my condi bomb and would keep me interrupted every chance he got.

Before that match my biggest issue was two thieves on the other team (1 was enough). All I could do is try and hide behind my team and that didn’t help, the entire time all I could do is just wait for the respawn screen.

Then there was the match before that where the other team just kept cleansing my condis leaving me wondering just wtf to do next.

Then there was the cc spam kitten before that one, I could barely get a spell out due to being knocked back 24/7, and don’t give me that “just dodge” crap. Necros can only evade twice and since most of the people I run against have more than two cc abilities I was pretty much screwed either way

Reaper shroud didn’t even help. I’d try to turn it on in the midst of getting burst down and all the life force I built up would seem to just vanish in the blink of an eye putting me back at my regular health and then dead.

Stop trying to defend that moa kitten too. Yet again once a necros is morphed into a moa that’s, it, theyre gonna die. I tried running away, evading away, nothing works.

1: you have too many conditions eating away at you
2: getting morphed doesn’t mean that the other team is going to stop attacking you
3:even if you do survive being morphed the second you return back to normal youre still going to get downed regardless, unless the other team isn’t very bright

Ive rolled a thief, Mesmer, guardian, and rev. I don’t seem to have as big of an issue with most of what ive complained about in this thread with those classes. If anything when I play one of my alts I barely even notice it. Yet I can sit here and pick out every thing that’s unbalanced when I’m playing my necros…..one hell of a coincidence if you ask me.

Necros sucks and bad and whether you like it or not there is no excuse for it.

I get the idea of it being the “glass cannon” class, but ive played many other mmos with glass cannon classes that did not fail this bad.

Yet again look at WoWs warlocks which are the best comparison in terms of role that I can think of. A warlock in WoWs pvp is feared and treated the same there as necros is here. Any experienced team will know to focus down the lock or pay the price for not doing so.

However, unlike necros they don’t have to just sit there and get there faces beaten in, they have at least 3 abilities that allow them to gain mobility alone. That’s not including the other defensive abilities they have and cc.

With where necros stands as I said before, you only have 3 build choices, 1 of which is useless and that is the toughness tank necros (youre still going to die in the blink of an eye and your damage will be trash)

The other two are power precision and condi necros, that’s it.

Condi necros can be defeated by cleansing condition and transferring said conditions so once that happens the condi necros is really just there for show.

Power precision is great however youll be heavily reliant on your reaper shroud which really doesn’t last very long if youre being focused or cc’d down.

Yet again….this is the only class that ive noticed have these issues.

You can hate me for saying it all you want, but Anet seems like they need to take a note or two from other mmos like Revelation, Bless, WoW, Rappelz, etc cause this is really a poor excuse for a casting class

Lord Velar.1509:

The top 100 necros players don’t complain because they don’t get to see the issues that the rest of us are complaining about.

Make a necros, level it to 80, and go do spvp, then come back and say that.

Youll be focused down and killed the second the other team realizes you exist in an instant.

My condi build is a staff/ scepter warhorn build. The last match I played today had, not a guardian, not an ele, but a warrior who seemed completely unaffected by my condi bomb and would keep me interrupted every chance he got.

Before that match my biggest issue was two thieves on the other team (1 was enough). All I could do is try and hide behind my team and that didn’t help, the entire time all I could do is just wait for the respawn screen.

Then there was the match before that where the other team just kept cleansing my condis leaving me wondering just wtf to do next.

Then there was the cc spam kitten before that one, I could barely get a spell out due to being knocked back 24/7, and don’t give me that “just dodge” crap. Necros can only evade twice and since most of the people I run against have more than two cc abilities I was pretty much screwed either way

Reaper shroud didn’t even help. I’d try to turn it on in the midst of getting burst down and all the life force I built up would seem to just vanish in the blink of an eye putting me back at my regular health and then dead.

Stop trying to defend that moa kitten too. Yet again once a necros is morphed into a moa that’s, it, theyre gonna die. I tried running away, evading away, nothing works.

1: you have too many conditions eating away at you
2: getting morphed doesn’t mean that the other team is going to stop attacking you
3:even if you do survive being morphed the second you return back to normal youre still going to get downed regardless, unless the other team isn’t very bright

Ive rolled a thief, Mesmer, guardian, and rev. I don’t seem to have as big of an issue with most of what ive complained about in this thread with those classes. If anything when I play one of my alts I barely even notice it. Yet I can sit here and pick out every thing that’s unbalanced when I’m playing my necros…..one hell of a coincidence if you ask me.

Necros sucks and bad and whether you like it or not there is no excuse for it.

I get the idea of it being the “glass cannon” class, but ive played many other mmos with glass cannon classes that did not fail this bad.

Yet again look at WoWs warlocks which are the best comparison in terms of role that I can think of. A warlock in WoWs pvp is feared and treated the same there as necros is here. Any experienced team will know to focus down the lock or pay the price for not doing so.

However, unlike necros they don’t have to just sit there and get there faces beaten in, they have at least 3 abilities that allow them to gain mobility alone. That’s not including the other defensive abilities they have and cc.

With where necros stands as I said before, you only have 3 build choices, 1 of which is useless and that is the toughness tank necros (youre still going to die in the blink of an eye and your damage will be trash)

The other two are power precision and condi necros, that’s it.

Condi necros can be defeated by cleansing condition and transferring said conditions so once that happens the condi necros is really just there for show.

Power precision is great however youll be heavily reliant on your reaper shroud which really doesn’t last very long if youre being focused or cc’d down.

Yet again….this is the only class that ive noticed have these issues.

You can hate me for saying it all you want, but Anet seems like they need to take a note or two from other mmos like Revelation, Bless, WoW, Rappelz, etc cause this is really a poor excuse for a casting class

They see the same issues. Difference is they adapt and overcome rather than deciding theres nothing they can do and voicing their displeasure in a high pitched tone on the forums.

NeXeD.3042:

They see the same issues. Difference is they adapt and overcome rather than deciding theres nothing they can do and voicing their displeasure in a high pitched tone on the forums.

Which has nothing to do with balance.

Necromancer has the worst Quality of Life in the current meta.

i am so sick of this woe is me necro bs

I cant believe im the only one who isnt perfect mechanically and perfect at rotations….. since all these people must be playing like a pro and still losing. Otherwise the problem lies with player not the game.

NeXeD.3042:

i am so sick of this woe is me necro bs

I cant believe im the only one who isnt perfect mechanically and perfect at rotations….. since all these people must be playing like a pro and still losing. Otherwise the problem lies with player not the game.

A necro playing perfectly is still worse than other classes playing perfectly. Necromancer has no tools to work with, which makes it a crap class for anything other than full 5s.

Play Necro like a walking bomb. Get in the middle of everything. Deal massive aoe damage. Make sure when you go down, you’ve taken a few with you.

Best way to do it IMO.

Who here watch the EU Unity Tournament and witnessed a Necro respawn, only to get ganked by a Thief/Mes before he could get to the point? Any other class would have made it to the nearest node at the very least.

Necro’s are in an awkward spot, somewhere between Hit and Miss.

Ah…. the age old Necro debates.

Necro’s need to learn when to peel from fights and where their superior damage can shift the team fight. The are particularly useful in shutting down support builds reliant on boons.

The bad thing about necro is its less forgiving if you are being hard focused.

Saiyan.1704:

Who here watch the EU Unity Tournament and witnessed a Necro respawn, only to get ganked by a Thief/Mes before he could get to the point? Any other class would have made it to the nearest node at the very least.

Necro’s are in an awkward spot, somewhere between Hit and Miss.

I think the class in the current meta is too polarized.

There is a specific subset of situations where necro is enormously strong, and then the rest of the time necro gets dunked on.

The other problem is that Necromancer is basically the “Double edged sword: The Class”

Necro is actually OP and in need of a serious nerf.

Azukas.1426:

Necro is actually OP and in need of a serious nerf.

I would gladly give up some damage for survivability

I’ll be honest, my necros isn’t bad, most of the time I can place top player in terms of damage on my team back to back in arenas. I don’t mean to play my own instrument, but I’m using it as I guess an example. The class does not lack damage at all.

9/10 If I go without pressure from the other team, I’m usually the cause of their downfall. However, necros has 0 survivability and isn’t really good at surviving. There is no point in having the potential to release so much damage, yet die in an instant. Last I checked you cant damage anyone if youre staring at a respawn screen.

Another example was a match on Legacy, I literally had 2 thieves whose sole purpose for the majority of the match was looking for me specifically. For the first 3-4 minutes I couldn’t leave spawn without getting ganked, by the time I realized that they were pressuring me, I was either stunned or immobilized and everyone knows by now that people who main thief knows how to throw out damage with it, so 1 is bad enough, I had 2 to deal with so it was pretty much.

Stun/immobilized…dead

Warriors don’t have this issue, rangers don’t have this issue, guardians, eles, engis, mesmers, even thieves themselves don’t have this issue, but necros do.

I understand that for a couple of seasons necros was a bit over the top, but that does not excuse the bad state its in now.

Like I said Condi reapers are easy to counter, all you have to do is cleanse the conditions and put pressure on them, its even better if you can keep up your boons. That’s usually how mine gets defeated.

Power/precision reapers are kind of the same, just instead of worrying about getting corrupted, just out match them in boons and cc them, they have very few options on how to get out of it if none at all while you on the other hand have quite a few, not to mention since theyre stacking boons you can convert their boons like a condi would. Theres an extremely high chance that because of that meta, they don’t really have a way out of dodging those conditions.

All in all, I’m pretty much just going to re roll to a guardian and a thief. If you cant beat them, join them right?

I’m sure it comes off that I hate GW2 or something, but to make it clear, I honestly don’t, like I said in previous statements if that was the case I would’ve deleted the game and not even bothered spending money on it let alone voice my concerns on the forums. I did so to draw attention to an issue that needs to be addressed.

Not because I despise the game, but because I want to see it succeed. GW2 literally has the potential to have some of the best pvp mmo experiences ever, but until Anet takes a look at it, it will still be in the same spot it is now.

It is highly enjoyable and fun, but theres nothing fun about dying constantly to the same cheap mechanics

Prototype pre-HoT footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt-veebHbYQ

Necro basically has to master and memorize all the kiting spots to survive. It may seem counter-intuitive, but try not to enter fights early. Wait outside the point if you want to, let the teams engage first, then pick your target. By engaging late you can also check where the Thief is so you can at least mentally prepare for a gank and have half a mind on your defensive CDs.

If the Thief is not at close, and you don’t see him at teamfight, he’s there. Of course, at gold tier, Thieves will be made to cap home and you have to keep in mind they may stealth into a +1.

If you are constantly getting beat on Necro by Thief, it’s a great idea to play one yourself to get a hang of how they operate. A lot of good players will also advice spamming duels on the class you want improvement on, with a player that’s at a higher level than you, so you can learn quickly.

Ive been having some luck with the power necro myself, been posting all my season 7 ranked games here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WkHBX_gffQ

PvP doesnt feel broken for my necro tho. Most complaints written here look like anecdotal scenarios and ppl refusing to improve.

Necros are not broken, that’s just laughable, they aren’t OP either, but they are far from broken. Can I have 2 health bars, mad burst and conditions and tanky stuff? Nope, well then you don’t get anything more either.

Ok.
I know my point of view is not popular at all.
But Necromancer is one of the best professions to 1v1 a Thief,is ok against a Mesmer,and can do a kittenton of damage in team fights.
If it got more buffs it would become less demanding to play than a Warrior.

Erzian.5218:

Look at helseth, prototype, stronlo or any other great player and you will see much much better kiting.

Yeah, I just wanted a fast Necro example and googled. I then watched the video again and the thought was there is no Thief so it shows nothing. People have also pointed out from the thread this video was first linked on the forums (just as you said) that the kiting was basic for his level. What do I know, I’m not quite there yet.

Guess I’ll change it (as if people read buried posts, pfft).

I would love to see footage from Stronlo or Prototype (he has 1 video from pre-Hot). Helseth definitely helped us a lot with his educational videos.

It’s fun to hate on how bad necro’s are, but with the loss of all the extra damage coming from the Sigil revamp, necro’s will be a pretty important commodity this season to help ensure kills in team fights. Nobody counters support builds in mid or breaks bunkers better than they do.

You could probably get pretty high up, even in platinum, if all you did was just rock a pure defensive build and only focus on kiting enemies, AoE boon corrupting, and dropping unblock able cc’s at mid.

NeXeD.3042:

60-70% winrate without an ele solo q as a necro.

You must not be playing against any capable enemies especially thieves (or no thieves).

You must never be getting focused.

You must never have any dc’s on your team. (I’ve had a dc in my first 7 games)

Never have a bad team comp (I just played a game where my team readied up 3 thieves)

Not true or you’re just lucky.

Necromancers are not needed this season. Ele’s do a better job. Mesmers do a better job.

Both are harder to kill.

BTW: Devs who make class changes don’t like necromancers lol.

Necro ele is the second strongest duo and also the best 2v2 in the game

bluri.2653:

Necro ele is the second strongest duo and also the best 2v2 in the game

Last season right? I mean I’m pretty prepared to see the 2v2’s in custom games and what comes of that.

I’m betting necro will not be as strong as you think.

TheDevice.2751:

Last season right? I mean I’m pretty prepared to see the 2v2’s in custom games and what comes of that.

I’m betting necro will not be as strong as you think.

I would be vary surprised if ele/necro isn’t the best 2v2 comp.

Explanation:
In 2v2 support ele is a mandatory pick. 2v2 is a low damage environment due to only having two opponents, in such a low damage environment a elementalist would be able to sustain his duo indefinitely against most comps. No other support class has this capability. This sustain power would make basically every other comp but ele/x nonviable.

Since Elementalist will be taken for basically every team then your second member of the duo must be capable of killing a support ele. This leaves two options. A necro, or a condi rev (condi rev actually has more boon rip than a necro) however condi rev is disadvantaged against most necro builds, so you would be better off taking the necro.

I will note that these assumptions are assuming that the teams are building for actually fighting each other. Depending on how the 2v2 rules are set up there could vary well be other comps build around exploiting win conditions.

Crinn.7864:

TheDevice.2751:

Last season right? I mean I’m pretty prepared to see the 2v2’s in custom games and what comes of that.

I’m betting necro will not be as strong as you think.

I would be vary surprised if ele/necro isn’t the best 2v2 comp.

Explanation:
In 2v2 support ele is a mandatory pick. 2v2 is a low damage environment due to only having two opponents, in such a low damage environment a elementalist would be able to sustain his duo indefinitely against most comps. No other support class has this capability. This sustain power would make basically every other comp but ele/x nonviable.

Since Elementalist will be taken for basically every team then your second member of the duo must be capable of killing a support ele. This leaves two options. A necro, or a condi rev (condi rev actually has more boon rip than a necro) however condi rev is disadvantaged against most necro builds, so you would be better off taking the necro.

I will note that these assumptions are assuming that the teams are building for actually fighting each other. Depending on how the 2v2 rules are set up there could vary well be other comps build around exploiting win conditions.

I think thats all speculation right now.

So many classes have interrupts right now that the necro won’t be able to do anything effective during a 2v2. Plus LF gain is most effective against large groups .. not 1v1 or 2v2.

Maybe you mean “duo queue” not 2v2.

in the end, Anet devs have no real desire to make Necros fun or effective. They just make sure they hit the traditional bulletpoints of the necro

- AOE
- Conditions
- corrupt
- Make them weak against most focusfire.

And call it a day. There’s nobody representing the necro over at anet. Nobody who’s like “oh I just came up with some fun cool designs / mechanics for the necro”. Robert Gee is not interested in the necromancer lol. He has more ideas for other classes. Kieth hasn’t played necro in like five years.

TheDevice.2751:

Crinn.7864:

TheDevice.2751:

Last season right? I mean I’m pretty prepared to see the 2v2’s in custom games and what comes of that.

I’m betting necro will not be as strong as you think.

I would be vary surprised if ele/necro isn’t the best 2v2 comp.

Explanation:
In 2v2 support ele is a mandatory pick. 2v2 is a low damage environment due to only having two opponents, in such a low damage environment a elementalist would be able to sustain his duo indefinitely against most comps. No other support class has this capability. This sustain power would make basically every other comp but ele/x nonviable.

Since Elementalist will be taken for basically every team then your second member of the duo must be capable of killing a support ele. This leaves two options. A necro, or a condi rev (condi rev actually has more boon rip than a necro) however condi rev is disadvantaged against most necro builds, so you would be better off taking the necro.

I will note that these assumptions are assuming that the teams are building for actually fighting each other. Depending on how the 2v2 rules are set up there could vary well be other comps build around exploiting win conditions.

I think thats all speculation right now.

So many classes have interrupts right now that the necro won’t be able to do anything effective during a 2v2. Plus LF gain is most effective against large groups .. not 1v1 or 2v2.

Maybe you mean “duo queue” not 2v2.

they can interrupt the necromancer all they want, interrupting the necromancer doesn’t stop the support ele from sustaining the necro through it. If they can’t kill the ele they will lose.

As long as support ele is meta, necromancer will be meta (regardless of how crappy the QoL is) However if support ele ever stops being meta, the necro class will be dead.

Also true that a good burst class will kill an ele easy. I seen a warrior on twitch at gold/platinum eat eles for breakfast with a Rifle/sword+shield build. Able to spam 8-9k with every Rifle F1, an ele would die easy and fast against him, still with all his healing skills. Then, dead the ele the necro will last 5 seconds, no more.
I see more a class with interrupts and burst. If you burst the enemy that is not the ele fast enough you can win the fight really easy with a couple of CC on the ele while ressing or an aoe burst. The necro is good in DuoQ with an ele, but if focused by two burst class the ele will find really hard to save his ally from the dead.
The necro is good to kill eles but inflict damage slower than any other class (unless ele) and don’t have any defensive skills. Also the due need to be extremly skilled because when the necro is in shroud the ele heals will not work on him and the shroud is te best offensive and defensive ability of a necromancer. I see the ele more suited to heal a class with good defensive skills than with much healt but no defence, in a 2v2 enviroment.
Ele/necro will for shure be a good choice but I’m not shure it’s the best for a pure 2v2. For a DueQ it’s relly good but there’s also other players that help to kill the enemy and make burst and focus, while no one of them can do a single burst combo. Expecially if in the other team there’s an ele.
A ele/necro vs ele/necro fight will last forever XD

There’s still time to see what due will be the best.
Maybe a thief/mesmer combo, with high mobility and burst (in both condi and direct damage), the mesmer that double moa the enemy (ele?) and the thief able to insta-stomp with his elite skill
Or a ele/war with a berserker warrior that burst down everything while supported by the ele
Or a ele/druid, able to unleash an insane amount of heal and with a druid pet able to kill anyone by himself (also the rnger have much more dps than a necro, with also stealth and mobility).
There’s so much possibile variations that I will enjoy to see these matches. Also I hope in a Spectator mode for that kind of matches.

In team fights the necro purpose is only to kill eles, then if eles will be meta he will be meta. Unless someone will find a better way to kill eles without using a necromancer.