Guild Wars 2

ArenaNet has been doing the right things lately for PvP, improving on the overall systems and rewards, but still PvP population is dwindling. The most telling thing for this is the amount of legendary division players. I understand there are 0 ppl there in NA, and only 3-4 players in EU. Compared to the previous season where EU had around 40-50 legendary division players.

The question I’m asking is what can ANet do to fix things and the dwindling population? Mind you that these things don’t directly apply to ranked. I made a list of things in no particular order:

1. Personal goals for players outside ranked.
- Playing exclusively necromancer, and have your Champion Phantom title? Congratz, you have nothing to look forward to until you’ve won 10 000 matches. That goal seems and feels unobtainable to most players.
- What I would like is more achievements there in between these 2 goals, and some PvP exclusive skins/items rewarded for them.
- Achievements/reward tracks shouldn’t be the only thing to aim for. With the recent unlocking of ranks beyond 80, something should be done with it.

2. Mode diversity.
- Tired of conquest? Too bad, there’s nothing else to do. A bit of exaggeration here but seriously, we have 2 other modes besides Conquest. Start supporting/developing them as people are fed up with sitting on nodes.
- Deathmatch and Stronghold modes need more maps, and Deathmatch needs to be re-introduced to unranked matches. Give it a checkbox like you have with Stronghold.
- Variety keeps people interested. Maybe some new modes could be introduced as well.
- What’s also needed is 1-man and 10-man content for PvP, but honestly that’s a deal for an expansion.

3. The learning curve, and accessibility in general.
- It’s hard for new players to get into PvP. Or even older players that never did PvP before.
- An in-depth tutorial is needed. It should introduce all of the maps and their mechanics, and they should allow you to explore the maps to your leisure.
- Hotjoin. It’s harder to get into hotjoins than unranked, yet unranked is supposed to be the stepping stone for ranked, not a place to teach complete newbies.
- We need a 3rd queue to precede unranked, maybe until you reach rank 10. Unranked would be intended for ranks 10-40, ranked would only be accessible after rank 40 is reached. I have an idea how to run this with extremely low population but that’s a topic onto itself and will discuss it in a later post.

4. Build diversity and class balance.
- This has been getting better during the last year. Still not as good as it should be.
- Skill splitting needs to continue.
- Balance patches need to come in small, more frequent doses. Rather change something overperforming now than later when 15 people quit PvP because of it, and 5 of them never come back. It will also keep things from overshooting as happened with the revenant.
- Tbh, I expect ANet to improve upon this point with the next expansion, and we shouldn’t keep our hopes up for anything major to happen until then.

5. Support for teamplay.
- Automated tournaments. Whether that’s every 2 weeks, 3 weeks or monthly, it still needs to happen. People want to play with their friends, even in PvP. Currently there’s little reason to do so, unless it’s for some fun, guild missions or duoing in ranked. Even with just in-game prizes like Black Lion Tickets/Keys or whatever, it will attract people.
- Another point for this is that it needs to be more thought out than our current system. The PvP rooms aren’t good enough for continuous tournaments. I’d suggest another lobby for them but that has a host of other issues to resolve.

That ship is already gone.

and met the iceberg……

Let’s assume a miracle happens and someone somewhere at Anet decides to actually invest some resources in pvp:
1) definitely could use more goals, i agree. Divisions related items, skins, finishers, whatever items, FLUFF!!!! would be nice.
2) this game needs 3v3/2v2 deathmode with clean map (Courtyard was too stuffed).
3) this game needs bot mode. 5v5 match vs 5 bots. Yes, it is easy, yes it is farmable but it would teach players basics better than some NPCs saying couple lines.
4) elite specs need to go from pvp, period.
5) automated tourneys? yes, ty. Also, allow us to duel anywhere, everywhere, like in WoW (right click on player, challenge to duel; if they accept, a flag drops and dueling area is around that flag with radius of xx meters. Duelers are enemies and can attack each other unless one dies or runs out of dueling area). Big part of wow pvp community was formed through duels. As new player you would watch other duel, they would duel other players, eventually they would meet players they would want to pvp with through duels -> they formed teams and went to team pvp. In gw2 you just get thrown into team arena right away and get murdered at spawn 24/7. For seasoned pvpers like me it is not issue, if we join game for pvp we know there is learning curve and it takes time to get good, but your average Joe doesn’t want to watch how other wipe the floor with his character for 200+ matches before he could actually start compete vs other.

Cynz.9437:

Let’s assume a miracle happens and someone somewhere at Anet decides to actually invest some resources in pvp:
1) definitely could use more goals, i agree. Divisions related items, skins, finishers, whatever items, FLUFF!!!! would be nice.
2) this game needs 3v3/2v2 deathmode with clean map (Courtyard was too stuffed).
3) this game needs bot mode. 5v5 match vs 5 bots. Yes, it is easy, yes it is farmable but it would teach players basics better than some NPCs saying couple lines.
4) elite specs need to go from pvp, period.
5) automated tourneys? yes, ty. Also, allow us to duel anywhere, everywhere, like in WoW (right click on player, challenge to duel; if they accept, a flag drops and dueling area is around that flag with radius of xx meters. Duelers are enemies and can attack each other unless one dies or runs out of dueling area). Big part of wow pvp community was formed through duels. As new player you would watch other duel, they would duel other players, eventually they would meet players they would want to pvp with through duels -> they formed teams and went to team pvp. In gw2 you just get thrown into team arena right away and get murdered at spawn 24/7. For seasoned pvpers like me it is not issue, if we join game for pvp we know there is learning curve and it takes time to get good, but your average Joe doesn’t want to watch how other wipe the floor with his character for 200+ matches before he could actually start compete vs other.

I agree with the dueling part. That would be hella fun. We have duel arena’s already and it is a strong community that commits to actual social interaction. So expanding on that would be a great idea.

but getting rid of elite specs? naa

Yannir.4132:

ArenaNet has been doing the right things lately for PvP, improving on the overall systems and rewards, but still PvP population is dwindling. The most telling thing for this is the amount of legendary division players. I understand there are 0 ppl there in NA, and only 3-4 players in EU. Compared to the previous season where EU had around 40-50 legendary division players.

The question I’m asking is what can ANet do to fix things and the dwindling population? Mind you that these things don’t directly apply to ranked. I made a list of things in no particular order:

1. Personal goals for players outside ranked.

2. Mode diversity.

3. The learning curve, and accessibility in general.

4. Build diversity and class balance.

5. Support for teamplay.

I’m gonna play the devils advocate here, and tackle each point you’ve made with a counterpoint.

1) Personal goals. Okay so in my opinion this sounds like a nice enough idea. Add another legendary back-piece, perhaps a few pvp exclusive stuff. But let’s keep it semi real here. Will this actually help the pvp scene fundamentally? or is this just a band-aid for a larger problem? I mean compare S6 or S5 to S1 and S2. The rewards have nearly tripled since then (I actually make money in pvp now….holy kitten?) yet the population is still low. Perhaps the issue of rewards isn’t a fundamental problem, thus it should not be the first thing to be addressed.

2) Mode Diversity. I agree, 100% they need new modes. We have two modes in addition to conquest that were utter failures, and in looking into them we should analyze why they failed

• A) Deathmatch. Deathmatch mode was an utter failure. The short answer for why it failed is because the mechanics were too simple (thus boring in a sense) and there was no anti-snowball mechanic in there that prevented all out stomps. If we are gonna have a DM mode, a number of things need to be in place to prevent stomps, spawn camping, and there needs to be flavor….like buffs or w.e.
• B) Stronghold. So why did this fail? Clearly it suffers from the same symptoms as Deathmatch, except made more complex with the addition pve elements (which makes it boring, because technically you could win or lose without even encountering the enemy team). Personally i think this entire gamemode should be wiped clean, and rethought from the ground up.

So, i think we should consider a CTF based rather then DM or SH. But the gamemode needs to be well thought out and intricate. It can’t suffer the same spawn-camp/snowball problems that the other two modes encouraged. wouldn’t you agree?

3)The learning curve. Okay so it’s true, we need a tutorial area for newbies. Sounds fair. But let’s be real. Nobody used the tutorial areas all that much in GW1, and when they did it was just to test builds or farm exp or w.e. it was. The best way to learn pvp is to actually pvp with somebody. Which is why the current system they have kind of makes sense. What we don’t have is a community that encourages pvpers teaching others, which Cynz in a previous comment alludes to (enable dueling outside of arena’s in the open world). This in my opinion would be a really smart move to tighten up the community, much like WoW had.

4) Build diversity. WONT ARGUE WITH YOU HERE. I THINK WE ALL UNANIMOUSLY AGREE THAT PVP NEEDS MORE OF THIS.

5)Support for Team-play. Okay, so i have to some-what disagree. I don’t think we need tournaments (Very few people are actually good enough to get into tournaments…and look what happened to E-sports?), separate game modes or whatever to support team-play, As this will only split the population, which we end up with longer Que times. We do however need team-play back in one form or the other.

So here is my little suggestion.

• I think PVP season should be continuous, one being for solo que, the other for teamque’s. So from March to May we’ve got solo que ranked season, and from may to june we’ve got Team que ranked season. They will have their own separate leader-boards, similar to TA and RA from GW1. So we fix the following issues : No ranked downtime, and team que comes back. Now i’m not saying the Team que should be ONLY pre-made teams. It should be like standard que from S4 and previous. Just have the ability to go pre-made 5 man into ranked during Team Que season.

Cynz.9437:

Let’s assume a miracle happens and someone somewhere at Anet decides to actually invest some resources in pvp:
1) definitely could use more goals, i agree. Divisions related items, skins, finishers, whatever items, FLUFF!!!! would be nice.
2) this game needs 3v3/2v2 deathmode with clean map (Courtyard was too stuffed).
3) this game needs bot mode. 5v5 match vs 5 bots. Yes, it is easy, yes it is farmable but it would teach players basics better than some NPCs saying couple lines.
4) elite specs need to go from pvp, period.
5) automated tourneys? yes, ty. Also, allow us to duel anywhere, everywhere, like in WoW (right click on player, challenge to duel; if they accept, a flag drops and dueling area is around that flag with radius of xx meters. Duelers are enemies and can attack each other unless one dies or runs out of dueling area). Big part of wow pvp community was formed through duels. As new player you would watch other duel, they would duel other players, eventually they would meet players they would want to pvp with through duels -> they formed teams and went to team pvp. In gw2 you just get thrown into team arena right away and get murdered at spawn 24/7. For seasoned pvpers like me it is not issue, if we join game for pvp we know there is learning curve and it takes time to get good, but your average Joe doesn’t want to watch how other wipe the floor with his character for 200+ matches before he could actually start compete vs other.

This. Although I am of the fix the elite spec approach rather than delete. Yes, I am a necro.

The game needs to slow down. Reality is, THIS IS NOT MOBA, the player base does not want a game where you from 100% to 0% in 3 seconds flat.

That and class balance is and always has been, atrocious due to the lack of commitment on class build archetypes.

Apolo.5942:

The game needs to slow down. Reality is, THIS IS NOT MOBA, the player base does not want a game where you from 100% to 0% in 3 seconds flat.

<- This!

Apolo.5942:

The game needs to slow down. Reality is, THIS IS NOT MOBA, the player base does not want a game where you from 100% to 0% in 3 seconds flat.

That and class balance is and always has been, atrocious due to the lack of commitment on class build archetypes.

i would trade some balance for a new beginning with slower combat

Cynz.9437:

3) this game needs bot mode. 5v5 match vs 5 bots. Yes, it is easy, yes it is farmable but it would teach players basics better than some NPCs saying couple lines.

I was actually about to mention that in a later post, and I agree.

Cynz.9437:

4) elite specs need to go from pvp, period.

You have to realize that this is totally and utterly off the table, so it’s not even worth debating. The sooner you come to grips with that, the better.

jihm.2315:

Apolo.5942:

The game needs to slow down. Reality is, THIS IS NOT MOBA, the player base does not want a game where you from 100% to 0% in 3 seconds flat.

That and class balance is and always has been, atrocious due to the lack of commitment on class build archetypes.

i would trade some balance for a new beginning with slower combat

I’m not opposed to smaller swings in health (e.g. you don’t go from 100% to 0% in just a few seconds, but you also can’t heal from 1% to 100% in a few seconds either). But it would have to be very carefully done, otherwise bunkers or even bruiser builds would be immortal, and that’s not fun either.

Also, if ‘slower combat’ means less mobility and dodging, then I also disagree. The action-oriented combat is one of the best features of GW2 IMO, and the primary reason that I play it over other MMOs.

However, I think it could be valuable to reduce burst and sustained damage if burst and sustained healing were also reduced.

fluidmonolith.3584:

jihm.2315:

Apolo.5942:

The game needs to slow down. Reality is, THIS IS NOT MOBA, the player base does not want a game where you from 100% to 0% in 3 seconds flat.

That and class balance is and always has been, atrocious due to the lack of commitment on class build archetypes.

i would trade some balance for a new beginning with slower combat

I’m not opposed to smaller swings in health (e.g. you don’t go from 100% to 0% in just a few seconds, but you also can’t heal from 1% to 100% in a few seconds either). But it would have to be very carefully done, otherwise bunkers or even bruiser builds would be immortal, and that’s not fun either.

Also, if ‘slower combat’ means less mobility and dodging, then I also disagree. The action-oriented combat is one of the best features of GW2 IMO, and the primary reason that I play it over other MMOs.

However, I think it could be valuable to reduce burst and sustained damage if burst and sustained healing were also reduced.

Action RPGs need to feel like tug of wars games, and not like pistols at dawn where you say go and 1 lucky skill puts you in the ground.

jihm.2315:

Apolo.5942:

The game needs to slow down. Reality is, THIS IS NOT MOBA, the player base does not want a game where you from 100% to 0% in 3 seconds flat.

That and class balance is and always has been, atrocious due to the lack of commitment on class build archetypes.

i would trade some balance for a new beginning with slower combat

For the sake of PVE i dont see Anet changing how classes are suposed to behave, if result on pvp creep builds Anet says those are metas, maybe and maybe not they get changed in future.
Slowing down means reduce performance in pve, since they cannot fully separate classes from the gamemodes, they barelly can change skills.

Anet needs to change their game ideals if they want the game fixed, still i think Anet made the game really to work arround powercreep vs powercreep.. sadly.

I really hope that they noticed what they are achiving here is not a good model for a game nor interesting wich means tweak what is wrong atm and then growth within that baseline.

Still…. its Anet and gw2 that we are talkign about, past changes prove their tendencies….

They have started doing skill splits, in a ‘change the numbers but not the functionality’ manner. Thus far, though, in a reverse to the GW1 situation, the tendency has been for the stronger version to be in PvP to keep raiding performance calibrated at the level they want it.

Aeolus.3615:

jihm.2315:

Apolo.5942:

The game needs to slow down. Reality is, THIS IS NOT MOBA, the player base does not want a game where you from 100% to 0% in 3 seconds flat.

That and class balance is and always has been, atrocious due to the lack of commitment on class build archetypes.

i would trade some balance for a new beginning with slower combat

For the sake of PVE i dont see Anet changing how classes are suposed to behave, if result on pvp creep builds Anet says those are metas, maybe and maybe not they get changed in future.
Slowing down means reduce performance in pve, since they cannot fully separate classes from the gamemodes, they barelly can change skills.

Anet needs to change their game ideals if they want the game fixed, still i think Anet made the game really to work arround powercreep vs powercreep.. sadly.

I really hope that they noticed what they are achiving here is not a good model for a game nor interesting wich means tweak what is wrong atm and then growth within that baseline.

Still…. its Anet and gw2 that we are talkign about, past changes prove their tendencies….

That is completely false. Skill effects are based on a base value + coefficient. The coefficient is applied to stats. Stats are a function of gear, pvp amulets in its current incarnation.
So the only thing that needs an overhaul is the pvp gear system, which is completely isolated from PvE.

The 5v5 conquest mode is made for teams organized of 5 peoples, not 5 pugs.
When a pug is afk or deco the game balance breaks and it’s why the 4 others just play for nothing, a lose (at 99.99%).

With 10 v 10 in big maps, an afk or deco will have muuch less impact and the other will still have the will to fight and play.

It’s ok to keep this mode but they should make other modes, less competitive, but more fun for people who just want to fight without just victory in their mind. (The lose in this bad competitive mode is what make people more angry, salty and to be afk…). Stop the 5v5 conquest mode now that esport failed.

Edit : I change : let’s keep the 5v5 conquest mode for teams, but the game needs another pvp mode, more cool.

Apolo.5942:

Aeolus.3615:

jihm.2315:

Apolo.5942:

The game needs to slow down. Reality is, THIS IS NOT MOBA, the player base does not want a game where you from 100% to 0% in 3 seconds flat.

That and class balance is and always has been, atrocious due to the lack of commitment on class build archetypes.

i would trade some balance for a new beginning with slower combat

For the sake of PVE i dont see Anet changing how classes are suposed to behave, if result on pvp creep builds Anet says those are metas, maybe and maybe not they get changed in future.
Slowing down means reduce performance in pve, since they cannot fully separate classes from the gamemodes, they barelly can change skills.

Anet needs to change their game ideals if they want the game fixed, still i think Anet made the game really to work arround powercreep vs powercreep.. sadly.

I really hope that they noticed what they are achiving here is not a good model for a game nor interesting wich means tweak what is wrong atm and then growth within that baseline.

Still…. its Anet and gw2 that we are talkign about, past changes prove their tendencies….

That is completely false. Skill effects are based on a base value + coefficient. The coefficient is applied to stats. Stats are a function of gear, pvp amulets in its current incarnation.
So the only thing that needs an overhaul is the pvp gear system, which is completely isolated from PvE.

oh that is the other way arround, tweaking the pvp trinkets values wich actually makes much more sense…

imo game is not prepared to that either, each class would be needed amulets with different stats from other class, its like creating specified amulets for each class to have a decent way to balance and tweak independently over time.

maybe we just only dream that pvp will change , might be difficult to revamp the play style all over

We have waited for a year.
But! what did they do? what have they done this year?

you can see this even if you blind

class balance –
the kittening simple example: DH still everywhere!

condi –
the kittening simple example: 14 stacks burning = 75000+ burning damage in a sec!

stronghold:
no people want to play. cut it, hey are you kidding? you didn’t fix it, improve it, you CUT it!?

too many meaningless map for conquest:
The map on conquest are enough! ! ! enough! ! ! and you can delete 3 or more of them.

balnace frequent -
Per 3 months for a no meaning excel sheet working. how many patch on REV to fix? how many patch on DH’s Test of Faith to fix? kitten that skill still here now. This mean they cannot see the problem or fear to make any change of the game.

The improtant things is : We can’t see any hope here. They haven’t response, communicate, promise, news, plans ……kitten that! Player have too many choices on the market today. Why they stay in here, in a hopeless dying game?

The future of the game is to have a strong will to make it better, and put time and effort in it. But as dev. has completly give up, there is no future. They prefer to put their effort in pve and living world. A shame.

xeonage.1253:

The improtant things is : We can’t see any hope here. They haven’t response, communicate, promise, news, plans ……kitten that! Player have too many choices on the market today. Why they stay in here, in a hopeless dying game?

No, that’s totally not true. Within the MMO market, GW2 is easily among the top4. It’s just the pvp that’s slowly being killed. And pvp is not the main attraction in MMO’s. People that do PvP have a warped perspective in the whole affair.

Yannir.4132:

xeonage.1253:

The improtant things is : We can’t see any hope here. They haven’t response, communicate, promise, news, plans ……kitten that! Player have too many choices on the market today. Why they stay in here, in a hopeless dying game?

No, that’s totally not true. Within the MMO market, GW2 is easily among the top4. It’s just the pvp that’s slowly being killed. And pvp is not the main attraction in MMO’s. People that do PvP have a warped perspective in the whole affair.

Market mean moba , mobile game , steam all games etc. MMO is a dying game mode today. It may be shrivel slowly, but it is shriveling. Anet know it will happen and they only have one game. GW2 have done great job in 2012, update in 14 days like mobile game, pvp like a moba no equipment competition, pve make for everyone not for hard core player, many mini games like SAB, living world like a TV series , WvW have competition per 3 months, new activity in every festival. But they can’t keep it and lost everything now.

What they have today? What we have in HoT Expansion pack? they kill WvW and PvP by powercreep and brainless skill design. they make the raid in game and same activity in every festival. they cut the stronghold in pvp. living world every 3 months and play for less 2 hours. I paid to HoT and buy a game only have 4 new maps, powercreep elite bar and raid that without PVP and WVW. Anet may be think this is fine. But i don’t and everyone who leave the game they are think so.

Actually….. Verdant brink, Auric basin, tangled depths, Dragon stand, bloodstone fen, ember bay, bitterfrost frontier, lake doric and maybe another map soon…. 8 new hot maps.

Yannir.4132:

xeonage.1253:

The improtant things is : We can’t see any hope here. They haven’t response, communicate, promise, news, plans ……kitten that! Player have too many choices on the market today. Why they stay in here, in a hopeless dying game?

No, that’s totally not true. Within the MMO market, GW2 is easily among the top4. It’s just the pvp that’s slowly being killed. And pvp is not the main attraction in MMO’s. People that do PvP have a warped perspective in the whole affair.

I completely agree with you on this point. However when other MMORPGs do Questing, Story, and Graphics better then you. That’s when you have a issue.

I am still a PvPer. I just no longer PvPs in MMORPGs anymore. More so since there are dedicated PvP games on the market. I also feel it’s pretty silly is ask for serious PvP in PvE centric games/genre. Just a silly as asking a burger joint to make you a 5 stars 3 course steak meal.

Only one MMORPG that I know has somewhat relevant PvP in it. And that is Korea’s version of BnS. Maybe come June ESO may also fit this bill, thou highly doubtful. It’s just that the current business models of MMORPGs just don’t allow them to have competitive PvP. In MMORPGs power creep sell far more then competitive play. And that’s the hard truth. People plays MMORPGs to become OP AF not to compete. Is it no wonder that these companies refuses to cater, towards the extremely small group of people who wants competitive PvP in a MMORPG?

Like I said, instead of trying to surpass what failed, they just gave up, and focus only on what worked : pve. Sad but I think every one can see it.

Reaper Alim.4176:

I completely agree with you on this point. However when other MMORPGs do Questing, Story, and Graphics better then you. That’s when you have a issue.

I don’t think any other MMO does any of those things better than GW2 does. Especially graphics, but as those are basically irrelevant to my generation of gamers anyway. I still play a game that was published in 2001, and it’s still one of my favorite games. But that is just my opinion.

Yannir.4132:

Reaper Alim.4176:

I completely agree with you on this point. However when other MMORPGs do Questing, Story, and Graphics better then you. That’s when you have a issue.

I don’t think any other MMO does any of those things better than GW2 does. Especially graphics, but as those are basically irrelevant to my generation of gamers anyway. I still play a game that was published in 2001, and it’s still one of my favorite games. But that is just my opinion.

From my experiences as MMOs goes. GW2 is top noch for Story.

Outside of that it is pretty sub-par in most other categories.

- Graphics goes to ESO Eve Online, and BDO.
- Endgame content goes to WoW and ESO.
- Meaningful character progression goes to all other MMORPGs.
- PvP goes to Blade and Soul, and Eve Online.
- ESO’s quests are much better made then GW2’s.
- Combat system imo is pretty much a tie between GW2, BnS, BDO, and ESO. ESO, BnS, and BDO have a more skill based combat system. GW2 has a more casual combat system.
- Class balance goes to ESO and BnS. Tho ESO and BnS is balanced every 3 or so months. Their balance teams actually listens and partake in a way more active role with their game’s playerbase. Hence why every class in those two games are viable in all of the game modes.
- Build variety goes to ESO and Eve Online. The viable builds for PvP in those two games are immense. We have META and anti-META. Build variety in these two games are pretty much null due to the nature of NPCs. And the fact that these two games are only being balanced around PvP. Yes sometimes PvE suffers but instead of just lazly add power creep to the classes, they take a different approach and nerf the PvE content instead. PvP suffers nothing, from PvE content.
- Long term excitement goes to ESO, Eve Online, and BnS.

Again these are my views. You are welcome to have different views. But the fact that you said GW2 does graphics the best alone. Just tells me you didn’t actually play many other MMOs or GW2 is your first and only MMO you played.

PvP is unsatisfying. I’m in middle/lower silver and in 70% of the games I LOSE I am both top in kills and in offense, and I actually stay mid-close. Games do not depend on my contribution, but on the coin-toss: Which team has more kittens.

This is not the case in DotA, this is not the case in CS. It’s impossible to meaningfully contribute to a game in gw2, because if your team loses on points it doesn’t matter how well you play. So, if you want people to play:

a) Make rating change depend on personal performance.
b) Completely rework conquest so that a good player can carry a bad team – DotA is the perfect example.
c) Make 2v2 premade team rated. More premade and less pugs

PvP has plenty of rewards as far as ingame items, increasing rewards will do nothing but attract all the wrong people.

P.S.: I do progress in rank, but only ever so slightly. It feels like “two more weeks, and I will finally be matched with normal people”. This is too tedious, if it wasn’t for the raids, I would have already uninstalled the game.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Yannir.4132:

Reaper Alim.4176:

I completely agree with you on this point. However when other MMORPGs do Questing, Story, and Graphics better then you. That’s when you have a issue.

I don’t think any other MMO does any of those things better than GW2 does. Especially graphics, but as those are basically irrelevant to my generation of gamers anyway. I still play a game that was published in 2001, and it’s still one of my favorite games. But that is just my opinion.

From my experiences as MMOs goes. GW2 is top noch for Story.

Outside of that it is pretty sub-par in most other categories.

- Graphics goes to ESO Eve Online, and BDO.
- Endgame content goes to WoW and ESO.
- Meaningful character progression goes to all other MMORPGs.
- PvP goes to Blade and Soul, and Eve Online.
- ESO’s quests are much better made then GW2’s.
- Combat system imo is pretty much a tie between GW2, BnS, BDO, and ESO. ESO, BnS, and BDO have a more skill based combat system. GW2 has a more casual combat system.
- Class balance goes to ESO and BnS. Tho ESO and BnS is balanced every 3 or so months. Their balance teams actually listens and partake in a way more active role with their game’s playerbase. Hence why every class in those two games are viable in all of the game modes.
- Build variety goes to ESO and Eve Online. The viable builds for PvP in those two games are immense. We have META and anti-META. Build variety in these two games are pretty much null due to the nature of NPCs. And the fact that these two games are only being balanced around PvP. Yes sometimes PvE suffers but instead of just lazly add power creep to the classes, they take a different approach and nerf the PvE content instead. PvP suffers nothing, from PvE content.
- Long term excitement goes to ESO, Eve Online, and BnS.

Again these are my views. You are welcome to have different views. But the fact that you said GW2 does graphics the best alone. Just tells me you didn’t actually play many other MMOs or GW2 is your first and only MMO you played.

You have got to be kidding me. GW2’s story is kittening terrible, is like written by an elementary schooler.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Yannir.4132:

Reaper Alim.4176:

I completely agree with you on this point. However when other MMORPGs do Questing, Story, and Graphics better then you. That’s when you have a issue.

I don’t think any other MMO does any of those things better than GW2 does. Especially graphics, but as those are basically irrelevant to my generation of gamers anyway. I still play a game that was published in 2001, and it’s still one of my favorite games. But that is just my opinion.

From my experiences as MMOs goes. GW2 is top noch for Story.

Outside of that it is pretty sub-par in most other categories.

- Graphics goes to ESO Eve Online, and BDO.
- Endgame content goes to WoW and ESO.
- Meaningful character progression goes to all other MMORPGs.
- PvP goes to Blade and Soul, and Eve Online.
- ESO’s quests are much better made then GW2’s.
- Combat system imo is pretty much a tie between GW2, BnS, BDO, and ESO. ESO, BnS, and BDO have a more skill based combat system. GW2 has a more casual combat system.
- Class balance goes to ESO and BnS. Tho ESO and BnS is balanced every 3 or so months. Their balance teams actually listens and partake in a way more active role with their game’s playerbase. Hence why every class in those two games are viable in all of the game modes.
- Build variety goes to ESO and Eve Online. The viable builds for PvP in those two games are immense. We have META and anti-META. Build variety in these two games are pretty much null due to the nature of NPCs. And the fact that these two games are only being balanced around PvP. Yes sometimes PvE suffers but instead of just lazly add power creep to the classes, they take a different approach and nerf the PvE content instead. PvP suffers nothing, from PvE content.
- Long term excitement goes to ESO, Eve Online, and BnS.

Again these are my views. You are welcome to have different views. But the fact that you said GW2 does graphics the best alone. Just tells me you didn’t actually play many other MMOs or GW2 is your first and only MMO you played.

black desert has the worst animations i have ever seen in a game
i cant stand all this cheesy effects on my screen
also class awakenings made no sense
i had a berserker and he got awakened as an iron man?

jihm.2315:

Reaper Alim.4176:

Yannir.4132:

Reaper Alim.4176:

I completely agree with you on this point. However when other MMORPGs do Questing, Story, and Graphics better then you. That’s when you have a issue.

I don’t think any other MMO does any of those things better than GW2 does. Especially graphics, but as those are basically irrelevant to my generation of gamers anyway. I still play a game that was published in 2001, and it’s still one of my favorite games. But that is just my opinion.

From my experiences as MMOs goes. GW2 is top noch for Story.

Outside of that it is pretty sub-par in most other categories.

- Graphics goes to ESO Eve Online, and BDO.
- Endgame content goes to WoW and ESO.
- Meaningful character progression goes to all other MMORPGs.
- PvP goes to Blade and Soul, and Eve Online.
- ESO’s quests are much better made then GW2’s.
- Combat system imo is pretty much a tie between GW2, BnS, BDO, and ESO. ESO, BnS, and BDO have a more skill based combat system. GW2 has a more casual combat system.
- Class balance goes to ESO and BnS. Tho ESO and BnS is balanced every 3 or so months. Their balance teams actually listens and partake in a way more active role with their game’s playerbase. Hence why every class in those two games are viable in all of the game modes.
- Build variety goes to ESO and Eve Online. The viable builds for PvP in those two games are immense. We have META and anti-META. Build variety in these two games are pretty much null due to the nature of NPCs. And the fact that these two games are only being balanced around PvP. Yes sometimes PvE suffers but instead of just lazly add power creep to the classes, they take a different approach and nerf the PvE content instead. PvP suffers nothing, from PvE content.
- Long term excitement goes to ESO, Eve Online, and BnS.

Again these are my views. You are welcome to have different views. But the fact that you said GW2 does graphics the best alone. Just tells me you didn’t actually play many other MMOs or GW2 is your first and only MMO you played.

black desert has the worst animations i have ever seen in a game
i cant stand all this cheesy effects on my screen
also class awakenings made no sense
i had a berserker and he got awakened as an iron man?

as a zerker main, i have to call BS. i can fly into enemy boats in naval battles as iron man, it’s the most kitten thing ever. zerker awakening is amazing.

plus the animations are excellent. sure you can glitch out on rare occasions, buts that’s all games. as far as fidelity goes, BDO trumps gw2 ezzzzz.

BDO > GW2

choovanski.5462:

jihm.2315:

Reaper Alim.4176:

Yannir.4132:

Reaper Alim.4176:

I completely agree with you on this point. However when other MMORPGs do Questing, Story, and Graphics better then you. That’s when you have a issue.

I don’t think any other MMO does any of those things better than GW2 does. Especially graphics, but as those are basically irrelevant to my generation of gamers anyway. I still play a game that was published in 2001, and it’s still one of my favorite games. But that is just my opinion.

From my experiences as MMOs goes. GW2 is top noch for Story.

Outside of that it is pretty sub-par in most other categories.

- Graphics goes to ESO Eve Online, and BDO.
- Endgame content goes to WoW and ESO.
- Meaningful character progression goes to all other MMORPGs.
- PvP goes to Blade and Soul, and Eve Online.
- ESO’s quests are much better made then GW2’s.
- Combat system imo is pretty much a tie between GW2, BnS, BDO, and ESO. ESO, BnS, and BDO have a more skill based combat system. GW2 has a more casual combat system.
- Class balance goes to ESO and BnS. Tho ESO and BnS is balanced every 3 or so months. Their balance teams actually listens and partake in a way more active role with their game’s playerbase. Hence why every class in those two games are viable in all of the game modes.
- Build variety goes to ESO and Eve Online. The viable builds for PvP in those two games are immense. We have META and anti-META. Build variety in these two games are pretty much null due to the nature of NPCs. And the fact that these two games are only being balanced around PvP. Yes sometimes PvE suffers but instead of just lazly add power creep to the classes, they take a different approach and nerf the PvE content instead. PvP suffers nothing, from PvE content.
- Long term excitement goes to ESO, Eve Online, and BnS.

Again these are my views. You are welcome to have different views. But the fact that you said GW2 does graphics the best alone. Just tells me you didn’t actually play many other MMOs or GW2 is your first and only MMO you played.

black desert has the worst animations i have ever seen in a game
i cant stand all this cheesy effects on my screen
also class awakenings made no sense
i had a berserker and he got awakened as an iron man?

as a zerker main, i have to call BS. i can fly into enemy boats in naval battles as iron man, it’s the most kitten thing ever. zerker awakening is amazing.

plus the animations are excellent. sure you can glitch out on rare occasions, buts that’s all games. as far as fidelity goes, BDO trumps gw2 ezzzzz.

BDO > GW2

matter of taste m8 still wont get me to like that light show and i also dont like gender locked classes
why cant male characters be archers lol.
from my piont of view the only good thing bdo has is graphics but thats only if you have a good pc