Guild Wars 2

I have played strategy games in many different genres and also many RPG games with PvP. I have Closed Beta and Alpha tested games and have worked with some game developers as a gaming enthusiast. This is what I have to say about the game’s PvP

1. Unbalanced Class Skills
Any 100% evasion skills like clones make it too difficult in the heat of a 45 sec battle to determine which is the clone and which is the real character. Especially when pets and other animals are running around at the same time. The end result is that they cause target loss in PvP this is a major imbalance. One hit less or 100% evasion is far too powerful. If a fighter loses five or six hits on a clone or even their take down skill that is wasted and requires longer recharge, then they have lost the match.

Pets and Clones should be changed to be identifiable and avoided if needed. The use of animals and other morphs are ridiculously overpowered. Converting a player into a Moa is the most overpowered skill in the game, second to giving yourself 100% evasion through clones or Pets/Minions.

2. PvP with 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3
PvP would be more fun if the teams were with people that we know rather than being a random player in a random team. 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3 maps should be available.

3. PvP Competition Skills
Some PvE skills should not even be available in PvP. Turning people into birds or bringing animals into the fight and doing a number of similar related things is not really PvP. It feels like war instead of combat or PvP. A team of 5 is very large and when you have ten players in the same area it is not a PvP match it is a micro War. Teams should be smaller and not all PvE skills should be available in PvP, or if they are they should be varied to suit PvP. Like a clone that has a particular transparency will help players identify the real player, also animals or pets in battle should not be allowed at all because they clutter the screen. It would be better that instead of an animal an object was called into the battle like a pole or post an that it causes players in the area to lose their current target and hit the pole or post representing the Animal or Pet. Using this in PvP achieves a limited advantage of 100% evasion without the frustration of trying to find and click on the correct target when an animal appears in the thick of a ten player conflict.

Why is it not in the pvp forum? You would get a lot of good responses there

Spartan Hoplite.3691:

Any 100% evasion skills like clones make it too difficult to determine which is the clone and which is the real character

Spartan Hoplite.3691:

Converting a player into a Moa is the most overpowered skill in the game

Holy kitten. My sides.

Git gud son. For real, you need to git gud. No one who’s played more than a week has a hard time to discern clones from the real Mesmer. And Moa is an easily dodgeable and telegraphed attack. And even if you get hit you can just run away.

2v2 and 3v3v3 modes for PvP would be pretty dope tho.

Spartan Hoplite.3691:

I have played strategy games in many different genres and also many RPG games with PvP. I have Closed Beta and Alpha tested games and have worked with some game developers as a gaming enthusiast. This is what I have to say about the game’s PvP

Blablabla, means diddly squat unless you’ve adapted to a new games mechanics.

Spartan Hoplite.3691:

1. Unbalanced Class Skills
Any 100% evasion skills like clones make it too difficult in the heat of a 45 sec battle to determine which is the clone and which is the real character. Especially when pets and other animals are running around at the same time. The end result is that they cause target loss in PvP this is a major imbalance. One hit less or 100% evasion is far too powerful. If a fighter loses five or six hits on a clone or even their take down skill that is wasted and requires longer recharge, then they have lost the match.

Pets and Clones should be changed to be identifiable and avoided if needed. The use of animals and other morphs are ridiculously overpowered. Converting a player into a Moa is the most overpowered skill in the game, second to giving yourself 100% evasion through clones or Pets/Minions.

Play a Mesmer yourself. Seasoned/experienced players have no problem distinguishing clones from players. Moa skill has a long and very distinguishable cast time, learn to dodge it.

Spartan Hoplite.3691:

2. PvP with 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3
PvP would be more fun if the teams were with people that we know rather than being a random player in a random team. 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3 maps should be available.

Step 1: Join an empty server.
Step 2: Have friends join an empty server.
Step 3: …
Step 4: Profit.

O wait, you wanted rewards too? Yeah no easy kill trading/ match throwing for you.

Spartan Hoplite.3691:

3. PvP Competition Skills
Some PvE skills should not even be available in PvP. Turning people into birds or bringing animals into the fight and doing a number of similar related things is not really PvP. It feels like war instead of combat or PvP. A team of 5 is very large and when you have ten players in the same area it is not a PvP match it is a micro War. Teams should be smaller and not all PvE skills should be available in PvP, or if they are they should be varied to suit PvP. Like a clone that has a particular transparency will help players identify the real player, also animals or pets in battle should not be allowed at all because they clutter the screen. It would be better that instead of an animal an object was called into the battle like a pole or post an that it causes players in the area to lose their current target and hit the pole or post representing the Animal or Pet. Using this in PvP achieves a limited advantage of 100% evasion without the frustration of trying to find and click on the correct target when an animal appears in the thick of a ten player conflict.

Learning to team fight is part of pvp. Knowing when to watchout for which skill is too. If the enemy team keeps 5v5ing you, make a bunker build. Hold a point vs 3-5 players and have your team dominte the rest of the map. It’s called adapting, also a pvp skill.

You may have meant well by making this thread, and I’m sorry if I offend you, but these are some of the worst suggestions I’ve ever read. X_X;;

In over a decade of MMO playing, I’ve not come across many games with a better, more balanced, pvp system that GW2

Every class has access to 100% evasion through the dodge roll mechanic. Mesmer’s core pvp survivability and effectiveness lies in the deception and trickery of illusions, and they are very easy to tell apart (clones tend to be stationary, players do not). Making clones easily identifiable would utterly destroy mesmer viability in pvp

Newsflash: Elite skills are supposed to strong, hence the incredibly long cooldowns on them

You can queue with you party in pvp

Honestly it sounds to me like you’ve jumped straight in to pvp with no idea of the class’ core mechanics.

To succeed in pvp in gw2 you need at the very least a working understanding of how every class works, you seem to have jumped in without a clue, had a few bad games and tried to blame the system, rather than your lack of knowledge, experience and skill.

The problem is not with GW2’s pvp, it’s with your lack of familiarity with how each class operates. Get some more practice, get experienced and learn how to deal with pvp situations.

The first week or so I was pvping I had no clue and just got annihilated non stop in pug groups. at the end of my first week I had about a 17% win rate in pvp. Now however I’m much more experienced and knowledgeable in the game and it’s mechanics, and my win rate is getting closer and closer to 50%

You say you played strategy games… if you seriously did, you would have come up with a strategy to beat the mesmer’s gimmicks instead of just QQ’ing

I’ll grant you that no one likes Mesmers (Aside from those that play them), but with such a pedigree of experience I would expect that you’re aware of the fact that in order to participate in a competitive game you need to invest yourself in it. Based on your initial post, I don’t think you’ve done that. You gave PvP a shot, and you didn’t like it. Your problem is your tone that you’ve played quite a bit of it.

Lol have you played Mesmer in pvp ? having a few second advantage if you transform the enemy into moa is nothing compare to how high skill this class requires to actually do something in pvp. seriously Ranger press 2 to win is far more annoying and unfair.

if you hate mesmers as much as i do go heavy condition builds trapper ranger works pretty good

Spartan Hoplite.3691:

I have played strategy games in many different genres and also many RPG games with PvP. I have Closed Beta and Alpha tested games and have worked with some game developers as a gaming enthusiast.

Blahblahblah, I threw out some (possibly fake) credentials so that means whatever I have to say is right.

Mesmers areeasy to spot the difference between them and their clones. Hint, it’s the one doing evade rolls and isn’t just spamming 1. The other way to tell is looking at the bar when you target them. If it shows a bunch of buffs or if they have signets or whatever else on the bar then that’s the real one.

If you are getting salty tears over Mesmers, Ranger pets and Necromancer summons I really doubt your so called expert gamer credentials. You should probably go back to WoW or TOR so you can QQ less. Oh wait, you’re a scrub so you probably QQed on those games too.

Dont mind this “gaming enthusiast” clown, sounds like he’s just trying to maybe troll some people into joining this crucifixion of mezmers and rangers which seems to be his focus points as well as if he thinks that moa transmorph is “the most overpowered skill in the game” then he hasn’t played alot. This actually just sounds like the OP is looking for other things to blame than rather looking at himself. Seeing that there are people that believe that the problem never lies with themselves but in others.

I play a thief and the biggest problem with mesmers I have found is that condis from clones are not scaled the same way damage from clones are.

Clone’s bleed should tick for like 1 and yes should take up space in the condi cap.

Other than that, I have no problems with clones or moa.

PvP has got issues… I’m not as bothered about mesmers but fighting 3 pet necro builds and a mesmer is a little too much for me!

I just wish Anet would give up on this whole esport thing and give us a ranked mode with a lot more map variety. (not all conquest) Things will NEVER be balanced and the more they try to balance maps the more we end up getting OP class combinations that stick out.

This idea of adding secondary mechanics to conquest also bothers me. I wish they had played some of the scenarios from Warhammer online as they were a lot more fun and added variety to the game.

I appreciate many of your responses despite NOT knowing what you are all talking about but nevertheless I appreciate you took the time to write.

I agree with Nightblood and Zunami. As for the opinions of play better or dodge the skills etc. Well seriously the problem would be reduced if it was 1v1 or 2v2 but when you have 5 people in a muck and you have your back turned you don’t get to see any of the visual hints as to what skill is about to be applied. I can appreciate a ranged attacker sitting back and watching but a fighter or thief or any up close fighter are the ones that suffer the most out of these skills.

It’s not just the Mesmer skills though, it is any skill that adds confusion to the battlefield and causes a loss of target. Fear, Clones, Pets, Transformations and suddenly you are Fraged because you can’t control your character or fight for over 45 sec. There is no real way to dodge those things, unless it’s a 1v1.

Also the clones tend not to get the full buffs that the player gets when they are fighting but by the time you click on each one to find out the game is usually over.

L2P

- by entire GW2 PvP community

Spartan Hoplite.3691:

I appreciate many of your responses despite NOT knowing what you are all talking about but nevertheless I appreciate you took the time to write.

I agree with Nightblood and Zunami. As for the opinions of play better or dodge the skills etc. Well seriously the problem would be reduced if it was 1v1 or 2v2 but when you have 5 people in a muck and you have your back turned you don’t get to see any of the visual hints as to what skill is about to be applied. I can appreciate a ranged attacker sitting back and watching but a fighter or thief or any up close fighter are the ones that suffer the most out of these skills.

It’s not just the Mesmer skills though, it is any skill that adds confusion to the battlefield and causes a loss of target. Fear, Clones, Pets, Transformations and suddenly you are Fraged because you can’t control your character or fight for over 45 sec. There is no real way to dodge those things, unless it’s a 1v1.

Also the clones tend not to get the full buffs that the player gets when they are fighting but by the time you click on each one to find out the game is usually over.

you need a class with good aoe heavy conditions and fry their clones in seconds its the best way to counter them
i use condition ranger with axe and torch a trap and survival skills, not saying that i beat them all at 1vs1 but now instead of them breaking my game i break theirs when fighting on point i will also try condition warrior and condition necro in the future but axe ranger works good for me to have fun since i dislike the ranger longbow meta.
its very little l2p issue its mostly build issue, seems you lack powerful aoe

Smells like a NooB !!!

Spartan Hoplite.3691:

I appreciate many of your responses despite NOT knowing what you are all talking about but nevertheless I appreciate you took the time to write.

Sooooo you with your luck of knowledge came here and thought you could do what exactly by complaining about necros, ranger’s pets and mesmers?

I mean really what about hambows? Being able to knock people around, condi ranger bunkers who’re not the easiest to kill or why not just complain about how you think the thief’s stealth mechanic is broken?

player with no defence because of Zerks relying on active defences gets Moa’ed gg game over.

one more reason why i take traited Signet of the wild.

Come on, cut the guy some slack. Posting crap like L2P and smells like a noob not only doesn’t add anything to the conversation but it also makes YOU look bad, not the OP. Does the guy clearly lack experience? Yes, but that’s all the more reason to try to help and inform him rather then trying to scare him off the forums by basically saying “You’ll get no help here, move along”.

Anyway, back on topic.
To the OP’s point one. Mesmers can be frustrating, but that’s kind of the idea of the class. They’re meant to confuse you. That being said though, there are things you can do to minimize the confusion. Phantasms look nothing like the mesmer and clones are typically immobile and only auto attack. See one running? Aim for it. See one using a skill? Aim for it. If you get moa’d, run away from the point. By doing that you force the mesmer to decide between killing you or capping the point. Any competent player will let you go since he has something more important to do. If he chases you just waste as much of his time as you can and revel in the knowledge that instead of helping his team he’s running around chasing a bird like a fool. And the reason I touch on evasion last even though it was the main point there is because every class has access to it. Abundantly so if you spec for it. Not really sure what to say about that. Dodge more?

Point two.
This is entirely personal preference. Making the fights smaller will not make them more balanced. The reason for this is that certain classes do well and poorly against the rest. Just like in fighting games, bad match ups happen. And will in just about any competitive game you play.

Point three.
Again this is pretty much all personal preference. Now, about this pole thing. I played Lineage 2 for a few years and in that game even in very large multiple hundred strong fights a tank was able to redirect EVERYONES attacks within range to itself and then be healed by a whole group of healers. The result of this was that one person would take all the damage from 20 or 30 people and not die. But nothing could get done untill he did. That is something I wish to never see in any game ever again and is very akin to your pole suggestion. It makes the fights boring and drag on to the point that you might lose interest WHILE FIGHTING. I’d much rather have to look for my target instead of having that control taken away from me.

The only thing I’d like to say something about in your second post is that front line fighters are more prone to the confusion then someone who’s looking at the whole battlefield all the time. And you’re right, there are no two ways about that. But it’s something you have to deal with and has been an issue since the dawn of warfare. The only way to avoid it would be to not make melee classes. But that isn’t fair to the people that enjoy them such as myself.

If you’d like to add me in game I’d be willing to answer any questions you may have. And if I can’t I’m sure I can direct you to someone who can.

Well I hope this helps you out a bit, see you on the battlefield!

I would help but this just sounds like a guy going from game to game and telling people how the game is broken, ecpesially stating that mesmer clones are annoying, ok lets say we take them away, the already squishy class will have 70% less suvivability.

The ranger pet is an iconic feature across most games with the class ranger and unless you spec in them then they can mostly just do minor damage and also immo, condi and cc you.

Necro minions are indeed annoying but if you just kill them all then theirs no problem.
What about cc abilities?- Have a stability/ condi removal in your build and also we already had a thread awhile ago that complained about the moa transmorph and we all agreed that it isnt that strong, in the contrary, you can just dodge the skill or even interrupt the mezmer or if your turned into a moa then you have an extra evasion ability.
But if you’re like me then you’ll just dash to the mezmer and start pecking them.

So bottomline
-have an condi removal
-stability ability
-learn the moa’s abilities – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Polymorph_Moa

Moa notes:
-Causes the Morphed effect.
-Can be dodged and blocked.
-A successful cast will end any forms in use by an enemy such as Tornado or Lich Form, and destroy all necromancer minions.
-You can practice the morphed skill set in the Heart of the Mists, the Mesmer training —NPC will cast it on you in battle.
-In sPvP, it will not interrupt an enemy’s finisher.
-The target will change form and their finisher animation will disappear, but the finishing skill itself will not be interrupted.
-Polymorph Moa can make certain NPC enemies much more dangerous, especially those of elite or higher rank, by giving them a set of skills with much shorter recharges and greater damage coefficients than their own, which greatly increases their damage.

BeefyKnight.4859:

Come on, cut the guy some slack. Posting crap like L2P and smells like a noob not only doesn’t add anything to the conversation but it also makes YOU look bad, not the OP. Does the guy clearly lack experience? Yes, but that’s all the more reason to try to help and inform him rather then trying to scare him off the forums by basically saying “You’ll get no help here, move along”.

Anyway, back on topic.
To the OP’s point one. Mesmers can be frustrating, but that’s kind of the idea of the class. They’re meant to confuse you. That being said though, there are things you can do to minimize the confusion. Phantasms look nothing like the mesmer and clones are typically immobile and only auto attack. See one running? Aim for it. See one using a skill? Aim for it. If you get moa’d, run away from the point. By doing that you force the mesmer to decide between killing you or capping the point. Any competent player will let you go since he has something more important to do. If he chases you just waste as much of his time as you can and revel in the knowledge that instead of helping his team he’s running around chasing a bird like a fool. And the reason I touch on evasion last even though it was the main point there is because every class has access to it. Abundantly so if you spec for it. Not really sure what to say about that. Dodge more?

Point two.
This is entirely personal preference. Making the fights smaller will not make them more balanced. The reason for this is that certain classes do well and poorly against the rest. Just like in fighting games, bad match ups happen. And will in just about any competitive game you play.

Point three.
Again this is pretty much all personal preference. Now, about this pole thing. I played Lineage 2 for a few years and in that game even in very large multiple hundred strong fights a tank was able to redirect EVERYONES attacks within range to itself and then be healed by a whole group of healers. The result of this was that one person would take all the damage from 20 or 30 people and not die. But nothing could get done untill he did. That is something I wish to never see in any game ever again and is very akin to your pole suggestion. It makes the fights boring and drag on to the point that you might lose interest WHILE FIGHTING. I’d much rather have to look for my target instead of having that control taken away from me.

The only thing I’d like to say something about in your second post is that front line fighters are more prone to the confusion then someone who’s looking at the whole battlefield all the time. And you’re right, there are no two ways about that. But it’s something you have to deal with and has been an issue since the dawn of warfare. The only way to avoid it would be to not make melee classes. But that isn’t fair to the people that enjoy them such as myself.

If you’d like to add me in game I’d be willing to answer any questions you may have. And if I can’t I’m sure I can direct you to someone who can.

Well I hope this helps you out a bit, see you on the battlefield!

~“I appreciate the responses even if none of you know what you’re talking about, but thanks for taking the time to write anyway”, is stubborn and condescending and doesn’t convey the idea of such a ‘serious gamer’ that wants to get better. It sounds more like someone that just wants to complain after showing their complete lack of knowledge, experience, and understanding of the game. Sorry comments like this don’t make people more willing to extend a helping hand but they just don’t.

The fine thing about Gw2 pvp is that it never ceases to be difficult. To be the best you have to learn every single skill of every single class and when to evade them and when to land them and how to use them and on top of that when to use them in combo fields and what combo fields they go with and what those combo fields do, and on top of THAT you have to keep track of your cooldowns and endurance, is it worth dropping that now, when is his insert skill off cd again, do I need to save endurance for that? Etc etc. It might be too hard and it has a LONG learning curve. I have recently been away for nearly 5 months but before that I have played quite alot and since beta, and I don’t know half of what some players do and even they learn every single day something new. This for me is a good thing in a game, but sure some might see it as bad.

Tman.6349:

~“I appreciate the responses even if none of you know what you’re talking about, but thanks for taking the time to write anyway”, is stubborn and condescending and doesn’t convey the idea of such a ‘serious gamer’ that wants to get better. It sounds more like someone that just wants to complain after showing their complete lack of knowledge, experience, and understanding of the game. Sorry comments like this don’t make people more willing to extend a helping hand but they just don’t.

You’re absolutely right, but that doesn’t make it ok to lower yourself to that level. If the guy doesn’t want to learn then he won’t take me up on my offer of help. But if he does, I don’t want to be the guy that had the time and ability to help someone and chose not to. But this is a conversation for another thread, if you’d like to create one about the the morals of the gaming community (or lack thereof) I’d be more then happy to discuss this with you further. Or even PM me about it.

I mainly WvW when looking for fights but mesmer’s really rely a lot on their clones from what I can tell to do anything. Does it make it hectic, yeah but like somebody else posted, they are as fragile as glass, even as my condition necro it only takes a mark or two to kill em. If you can stun the Mesmer or just condition bomb him, his life will become heck since mesmer’s really lack any solid form of condition removal far as I can tell. If they don’t kill me with their initial engagement, a quick fear, tainted shackles, dhuumfire lifeblast will put a big hurting on them. Follow up with a staff fear and standard condition rotation and their usually down and out.

Thieves are really the only class I can complain about, PvP they are much less effective from what I’ve seen and experienced, but they are just so annoying to fight against.

Spartan Hoplite.3691:

I have played strategy games in many different genres and also many RPG games with PvP. I have Closed Beta and Alpha tested games and have worked with some game developers as a gaming enthusiast. This is what I have to say about the game’s PvP

1. Unbalanced Class Skills
Any 100% evasion skills like clones make it too difficult in the heat of a 45 sec battle to determine which is the clone and which is the real character. Especially when pets and other animals are running around at the same time. The end result is that they cause target loss in PvP this is a major imbalance. One hit less or 100% evasion is far too powerful. If a fighter loses five or six hits on a clone or even their take down skill that is wasted and requires longer recharge, then they have lost the match.

Pets and Clones should be changed to be identifiable and avoided if needed. The use of animals and other morphs are ridiculously overpowered. Converting a player into a Moa is the most overpowered skill in the game, second to giving yourself 100% evasion through clones or Pets/Minions.

2. PvP with 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3
PvP would be more fun if the teams were with people that we know rather than being a random player in a random team. 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3 maps should be available.

3. PvP Competition Skills
Some PvE skills should not even be available in PvP. Turning people into birds or bringing animals into the fight and doing a number of similar related things is not really PvP. It feels like war instead of combat or PvP. A team of 5 is very large and when you have ten players in the same area it is not a PvP match it is a micro War. Teams should be smaller and not all PvE skills should be available in PvP, or if they are they should be varied to suit PvP. Like a clone that has a particular transparency will help players identify the real player, also animals or pets in battle should not be allowed at all because they clutter the screen. It would be better that instead of an animal an object was called into the battle like a pole or post an that it causes players in the area to lose their current target and hit the pole or post representing the Animal or Pet. Using this in PvP achieves a limited advantage of 100% evasion without the frustration of trying to find and click on the correct target when an animal appears in the thick of a ten player conflict.

You are having a L2P problem. It has nothing to do with the game. Gw2 pvp is harder than your average MMO. There is a ton to learn not only whats your skills do and the other classes skills do, but how to use line of sight to your advantage when to engage when to retreat, what position you should be in during a team fight and how to deal with being focused.

Fyi, I can tell if its a mesmer or clone from a mile away. It comes with experience.

So guy came here and say i done this and that and i know stuff!Your game is JOKE!
Well DUDE you don’t know stuff because you don’t know GW2 ,play it for some time learn it maybe mesmer clones and ranger pets wont be a problem any more!Then it will be ENGI !!! lol

Spartan Hoplite.3691:

I appreciate many of your responses despite NOT knowing what you are all talking about but nevertheless I appreciate you took the time to write.

The audacity…

There hasn’t been a Mesmer Clone QQ thread made since 2014. Let that sink in.

You obviously haven’t played a Mesmer. They’re one of the hardest classes to play. Definitely harder than Shoutbow, rangers and Guardians.
Everyone is saying “get gud” because that’s exactly what needs to happen here. We have no sympathy for winy-babies.

or Saiyan you can say that they are one of the hardest classes to to fight against also fighting a mesmer is very complicated and they are extremely strong at 1vs1

2v2 3v3 or RA style deathmatch would be great…. the rest of your post is crying about mesmers…. practice and you will kill them more times then not.

OP: “This game is too hard for me and I’m not as good as most of the people I play against!”

Everyone else: “This is how you do better, you should try this!”

OP: “YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT. THIS GAME NEEDS TO BE DUMBED DOWN TO MY LOWER LEVEL OF SKILL”

Everyone else: “Lol k”

I agree with you OP, PvP is a kittening mess, and as a kittening mess, it only works in the Courtyard map, there i can do something, i can kill people and
everything is fair, on the other maps, it is just luck.

Spartan Hoplite.3691:

because you can’t control your character or fight for over 45 sec.

Super-ultra-mega-LOL

Believe it or not the OP has very valid points, however, this game is beyond any kind of help from his suggestions. The Mesmer class seems to be his focus so I will start there.

Clones and pet AI — visual clutter — this was a very poor design decision when trying to pursue esports with no casting bars. Viewership is low because no one understands what they are looking at, not because of clones and pet AI, but it definitely makes matters worse.

Moa. Again a poor design decision coupled with several others. This is not because you are turned into a chicken. It is because it is a large cool down balancing out a large effect. Probably no one left playing would rather have gw1 style elite skills with reasonable effects on reasonable cool downs with a resource management other than cool downs.

Concerning 2v2/3v3. You can defend not having a heal other role as much as you want, but the simple fact is it limits game modes regardless of what the community does in custom arenas considering there are a fair amount of rules that go along with having them actually work well for esl tournaments.

Don’t forget the real joke about gw2 pvp is the skill gap is way too large for how big its population is. To really see how much of a joke it is just go look at the official wiki’s aftercast delay page. Nearly three years after a forced release out of beta from its producer and still key elements are missing.

Now keep in mind all of this is subjective. If the game wasn’t forced out of beta it might have had real ladders at launch and the large skill gap wouldn’t matter if the game was able to retain the massive amount of players it once had. In the end it doesn’t even matter. It is a fun game for what it is. My advice for Anet is to make as much money as they can and learn from their mistakes when planing for gw3.

You can tell when someone is looking for help and when someone is so full of themselves they just want to troll. OP is a troll and a really bad one at that. Its obvious he isn’t looking for help and its obvious some people here are his buddies trying to continue this dumb kitten thread. So here is my advise “friend” L2P.

kitten also this isn’t even a debate worthy thread. Some other people actually have valid topics to debate and kitten i’ve joined in on those smart debates but this one is clearly not a debate worthy thread.

Amstel Steel.2058:

Clones and pet AI — visual clutter — this was a very poor design decision when trying to pursue esports with no casting bars.

Ah but was it a poor design in general? Regardless of esports → No. Contrary to what the OP is whining about, the Mesmer is designed pretty well! The whole purpose of a Mesmer is to confuse, and the clutter of clones/phantasms/illusions most definitely help with that. And if a unique, but very basic design mechanic of a single profession is too much for some people, then maybe this game is just a little too hard for them. They might have an easier time playing a much slower paced game like League of Legends.

Amstel Steel.2058:

Believe it or not the OP has very valid points, however, this game is beyond any kind of help from his suggestions. The Mesmer class seems to be his focus so I will start there.

Clones and pet AI — visual clutter — this was a very poor design decision when trying to pursue esports with no casting bars. Viewership is low because no one understands what they are looking at, not because of clones and pet AI, but it definitely makes matters worse.

Moa. Again a poor design decision coupled with several others. This is not because you are turned into a chicken. It is because it is a large cool down balancing out a large effect. Probably no one left playing would rather have gw1 style elite skills with reasonable effects on reasonable cool downs with a resource management other than cool downs.

Concerning 2v2/3v3. You can defend not having a heal other role as much as you want, but the simple fact is it limits game modes regardless of what the community does in custom arenas considering there are a fair amount of rules that go along with having them actually work well for esl tournaments.

Don’t forget the real joke about gw2 pvp is the skill gap is way too large for how big its population is. To really see how much of a joke it is just go look at the official wiki’s aftercast delay page. Nearly three years after a forced release out of beta from its producer and still key elements are missing.

Now keep in mind all of this is subjective. If the game wasn’t forced out of beta it might have had real ladders at launch and the large skill gap wouldn’t matter if the game was able to retain the massive amount of players it once had. In the end it doesn’t even matter. It is a fun game for what it is. My advice for Anet is to make as much money as they can and learn from their mistakes when planing for gw3.

“Believe it or not, the OP has very valid points…”
“In PvP, the skill gap is way too way too large…”

Tldr: the OP doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about and is not even mediocre at PvP yet..

Turk.5460:

Amstel Steel.2058:

Clones and pet AI — visual clutter — this was a very poor design decision when trying to pursue esports with no casting bars.

Ah but was it a poor design in general? Regardless of esports -> No. Contrary to what the OP is whining about, the Mesmer is designed pretty well! The whole purpose of a Mesmer is to confuse, and the clutter of clones/phantasms/illusions most definitely help with that. And if a unique, but very basic design mechanic of a single profession is too much for some people, then maybe this game is just a little too hard for them. They might have an easier time playing a much slower paced game like League of Legends.

Its not the Mesmer as a class that is the problem, it’s that there are too many pets, decoys and phantoms to tab target at times forcing you to have to mouse click your target. Which can be very hard when dealing with lag or 15-20 different minions/pets/decoys covering up player characters.

This leads players to resort to using condition builds and spamming AoE rather than using their skills skilfully while pet and Mesmer classes hide somewhere and everybody else on the team benefits from everybody’s lack of ability to target them.

Then there are also inactive minions/phantoms/turrets/decoys that are just bugged running into walls and doing whatever all over the map, it can get pretty ridiculous at times.

Some of the maps don’t have these issue as its easy to ignore these classes when they’re together and go onto different objectives, while maps like Foefire have their points too close together. I’m starting to see a lot of these builds running together which proves players are capitalizing on this issue.

Clones and dodging are OP? I’ll agree that moa is annoying and fatal in some cases, but its an elite. Also, there are other elites that are just as rage inducing, if not more (see rampage, RaO, lich vs a non guard/thief, entangle). Honestly OP, how long have you been pvping for?

Sorry man but you’re the joke, I admit I also had trouble with the clones when I first started but I never called this game a joke. After a while I learned how to tell the difference between a clone and a player (what helped me plenty in my first days was that any experienced player from my team would call target on the real one) Really man don’t diss on a game you don’t understand.

You will not be good in this game’s pvp if you don’t put some effort into it.