PvP's unintentional game mode

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Gorefiend.9675

Gorefiend.9675

You said it.
Frontliners have a good amount of condi removals, frontliners are also the same who runs with Runes of Perplexity and are able to stack 9 confusions with a single interrupts.

Runes of Perplexity are broken, no matter how you can prevent them, you can’t always make sure that an AoE interrupt won’t land. Being able to stack confusion as easily is broken.

Re-watch the video and pay attention to how quickly the conditions are wiped from the eles party members (all frontline). So if they can get a lucky cc and stack confusion, it will be wiped in a matter of seconds.

No, I didn’t argue both sides. I simply stated that adding any sustained monetary cost, regardless of how miniscule it is, is completely unnecessary and shouldn’t be a factor if you actually want 15v15 to be a structured pvp format. I also didn’t state that food determines how you play; it simply impacts it too much to be a decent balancing factor.

Do you think I am arguing to maintain the gold cost for food? I honestly don’t care how you go about getting the buff whether you have to purchase it or if it is given away just as long as you have that variety in the game. If you want to fight something as inconsequential as a small amount of silver go for it. Condi duration food impacts “it”, with “it” being “how you play”. You do not want buffs to impact how people play their class? So you want all condi necros to play as close to the same as possible. That sounds awfully boring to me.

Yeah, it does get more balanced than that. It’s called not having consumables be a factor in pvp. What is wrong with the game if I must bring a consumable buff to just to deal with somebody else’s? There is nothing ok with a food buff increasing your potential damage output per condi application by 40%. The traits are there for a reason; you give up some traits to get others. Food items let you bypass those limitations, both in the offensive and defensive sense. Food has actually created a necessity to counter the strongest effects you can get from it in WvW.

1) Taking everything away is not “balancing”
2) How dare me have to do something to counter you. I should be able to do the same thing each time and have it work.
3) To get that 40% extra duration you give up the defensive bonus foods which is HUGE in a 15v15. The classes that make the most use of the 40% buff are also the squishiest.

You are viewing food as something that should be “extra” so when you would make a build it would not include food. I view food as part of your build just as your gear and talents are. You probably do not agree with that but the food adds another level of uniqueness and design to your character and more of that is always for the better (up until the point when you get so many elements it gets confusing). You say something like that should not cost the player anything; fine, go ahead and argue that. I personally do not care if I have to buy it so long as it is not outlandishly expensive. I just want the option there to add variety.

With an AoE cap of 5, you numerically only require one fifth of your players to have any significant condition damage. This is not to suggest that your team doesn’t have some degree of utility/cover conditions just from regular skill effects, which must also be accounted for. Unless your condition applicators cannot manage to spread their conditions effectively enough because of 15v15 being too many people, I don’t see the problem with having the rest of your team dedicated to other roles.

Having 3 (1/5 of 15) condi pressure roles is actually what a balanced group would employ. Any less and an opponents frontline (balanced – heavy) will be able to shake off the condis without much threat. Also, having the necros spread out their conditions is not recommended because then you would fall into the category of only having the effect of two condi pressure roles which, as I said earlier, is a non threat to a frontline.

D/D, Staff Elementalist

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: sorrow.2364

sorrow.2364

You said it.
Frontliners have a good amount of condi removals, frontliners are also the same who runs with Runes of Perplexity and are able to stack 9 confusions with a single interrupts.

Runes of Perplexity are broken, no matter how you can prevent them, you can’t always make sure that an AoE interrupt won’t land. Being able to stack confusion as easily is broken.

Re-watch the video and pay attention to how quickly the conditions are wiped from the eles party members (all frontline). So if they can get a lucky cc and stack confusion, it will be wiped in a matter of seconds.

It’s funny, because incredibly broken runes (yes, they are in any other circumstance) are overshadowed by another imbalance that you have pointed out which is the huge amounts of condition removals in a 15vs15 environment.
It’s power creep vs power creep, the apex of imbalance.

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

You said it.
Frontliners have a good amount of condi removals, frontliners are also the same who runs with Runes of Perplexity and are able to stack 9 confusions with a single interrupts.

Runes of Perplexity are broken, no matter how you can prevent them, you can’t always make sure that an AoE interrupt won’t land. Being able to stack confusion as easily is broken.

Re-watch the video and pay attention to how quickly the conditions are wiped from the eles party members (all frontline). So if they can get a lucky cc and stack confusion, it will be wiped in a matter of seconds.

It’s funny, because incredibly broken runes (yes, they are in any other circumstance) are overshadowed by another imbalance that you have pointed out which is the huge amounts of condition removals in a 15vs15 environment.
It’s power creep vs power creep, the apex of imbalance.

condi removal imbalance?
Im sorry and this is coming from a necro but the condi removal rate is right on the money. Condi pressue and removal are fine as it in 15v15

Xxkakarot [GF] Good Fights
Dark Wizard Incar [GF] Good Fights
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Gorefiend.9675

Gorefiend.9675

It’s funny, because incredibly broken runes (yes, they are in any other circumstance) are overshadowed by another imbalance that you have pointed out which is the huge amounts of condition removals in a 15vs15 environment.
It’s power creep vs power creep, the apex of imbalance.

You are all over the place. First perplexity is op in 15v15, now it isnt and condi clear is. Let me be clear, you CAN condi overload a frontline no matter how much condi clear they have. You have to make a playstyle choice to do it as the group that went heavy into frontline for massive condi clear has made playstyle choices. That is what I love about this format.

D/D, Staff Elementalist

(edited by Gorefiend.9675)

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

Well, I admire your creativity with all this stuff. But the fact that A-Net would never ever balance the game around 15v15 is a big reason why this mode could be confronted with big problems on balance-changes.

Read It Backwards [BooN]

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

Well, I admire your creativity with all this stuff. But the fact that A-Net would never ever balance the game around 15v15 is a big reason why this mode could be confronted with big problems on balance-changes.

we dont need any real balance changes. we already have 15v15 matches going on in WvW.

all we need a custom arena which will allow us to use our WvW gear/builds/skills

Xxkakarot [GF] Good Fights
Dark Wizard Incar [GF] Good Fights
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Gorefiend.9675

Gorefiend.9675

Well, I admire your creativity with all this stuff. But the fact that A-Net would never ever balance the game around 15v15 is a big reason why this mode could be confronted with big problems on balance-changes.

It is kind of funny, A’net admitted that they don’t put any effort into balancing wvw/pve but by doing to created the most balanced format in the game.

all we need a custom arena which will allow us to use our WvW gear/builds/skills

This

Just do that and our community will handle the rest.

D/D, Staff Elementalist

(edited by Gorefiend.9675)

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

Well done, but you should know better, there’s little chance this will ever happen. Even if it will, mabye in 2015? Feel sorry for you

Read It Backwards [BooN]

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: sorrow.2364

sorrow.2364

You are all over the place. First perplexity is op in 15v15, now it isnt and condi clear is. Let me be clear, you CAN condi overload a frontline no matter how much condi clear they have. You have to make a playstyle choice to do it as the group that went heavy into frontline for massive condi clear has made playstyle choices. That is what I love about this format.

Than, in that case, Rune of Perplexity are OP since you can easily land them and 5 (9 on warriors) stacks of confusion is a lot.

In both cases you have an imbalance.

The fact is simple, if Runes of Perplexity manage to trigger, their effect is arguably too strong.
But if you can reliably prevent Runes of Perplexity to trigger to the point that they aren’t a problem at all, then there is an imbalance on the other side, because preventing completely those runes to work means that either stuns are completely worthless (imbalance) or that condition removal is too much.

That’s what I mean with power creep vs power creep. Food buffs and PvE-like gamemodes stresses those power creeps a lot more compared to sPvP and that’s why most people think WvWvW is imbalanced by design. It is because everything is too strong and too weak at the same time.

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

You are all over the place. First perplexity is op in 15v15, now it isnt and condi clear is. Let me be clear, you CAN condi overload a frontline no matter how much condi clear they have. You have to make a playstyle choice to do it as the group that went heavy into frontline for massive condi clear has made playstyle choices. That is what I love about this format.

Than, in that case, Rune of Perplexity are OP since you can easily land them and 5 (9 on warriors) stacks of confusion is a lot.

In both cases you have an imbalance.

The fact is simple, if Runes of Perplexity manage to trigger, their effect is arguably too strong.
But if you can reliably prevent Runes of Perplexity to trigger to the point that they aren’t a problem at all, then there is an imbalance on the other side, because preventing completely those runes to work means that either stuns are completely worthless (imbalance) or that condition removal is too much.

That’s what I mean with power creep vs power creep. Food buffs and PvE-like gamemodes stresses those power creeps a lot more compared to sPvP and that’s why most people think WvWvW is imbalanced by design. It is because everything is too strong and too weak at the same time.

everything is too strong and too weak at the same time….. isnt that balance?

Xxkakarot [GF] Good Fights
Dark Wizard Incar [GF] Good Fights
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Lachanche.6859

Lachanche.6859

So if people melt in seconds due to condition overload in tpvp that’s perfectly fine and balanced but if a very strong runeset only works in 15v15 if you coordinate and build your team for it, yet the other side still has the chance to react, it is a blatant proof of unbalance ?

Anet should really hire you, you seem to sintonize well with their policy.

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: sorrow.2364

sorrow.2364

everything is too strong and too weak at the same time….. isnt that balance?

No, that isn’t balance.
Balance is when everything is not too strong, neither too weak.

To make a physics comparison, if something is standing still, it doesn’t mean that it is in a balanced position.

So if people melt in seconds due to condition overload in tpvp that’s perfectly fine and balanced but if a very strong runeset only works in 15v15 if you coordinate and build your team for it, yet the other side still has the chance to react, it is a blatant proof of unbalance ?

Anet should really hire you, you seem to sintonize well with their policy.

You missed a point.
Most people were complaining about conditions in PvP and everyone agreed that they needed to be toned down. Now they are not a big problem anymore since the meta shifted and they got nerfed a little bit.

Also, you clearly didn’t read or didn’t understand my last post.

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Darnis.4056

Darnis.4056

Haha
Wvwvw Balanced
15v15 deathmatch not a clusterkitten
oh wow
Hilarious troll thread; Hilarious Video
Please continue I want to hear more about the alternate reality you live in.

Will the Real Pink Puma Please stand up?

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

in a GvG their is a counter to everything is you build your group correctly and do what is needed to counter.

the counter to Perplexity = stability and blinds
counter to perma stability = immobilize and boon hate/removal
counter to condi in general = aoe/personal condi removal

for everything that is "strong" there is a counter which makes things balanced.

Xxkakarot [GF] Good Fights
Dark Wizard Incar [GF] Good Fights
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Lachanche.6859

Lachanche.6859

You are talking about power creep which is what happens when the general power level of a game keeps increasing over time for whatever reason.
Point is, condition removal in wvwvw hasn’t been subject to power creep, it is where it has always been.
Shout warriors/guardians existed since forever, the same goes for staff eles with 30 points in water that make your team basically immune to conditions once every 36 seconds thanks to healing rain.
In spvp such specs are useless (except for the guardian) because they do too little damage and aren’t able to hold their own in 1v1 scenarios (ok now warriors can also do that thanks to healing signet) but in world vs world, with bigger numbers, they can finally find their spot.
And it’s not like it is so incredibly overpowered, if a team misses the rotation because someone got singled out or simply screwed up or the other team gets off an incredibly coordinated cc+boon corruption+condition burst you can still get decimated.
The fact that it evens out by itself makes it balanced.
It’s not a power creep induced balance because it has been this way since a lot of time. (dhumfire icd makes it useless vs zergs)

Runes of perplexity are an imbalanced runeset, yet they can’t produce a disturbance in the spiritual war between condition and condition removal when you throw them into a 15v15. This should get you thinking.

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Knote.2904

Knote.2904

This “GvG” clusterbleep here reminds me a lot of Dragon Nest 8v8 stuff. The game had great combat and on a small scale the fights are visible like 1v1, 2v2 etc. But every player has so many flashy abilities that when it’s an 8v8 it’s just a giant friggin mess.

Look here lol : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SQFPIL6sro

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Gorefiend.9675

Gorefiend.9675

I am now convinced that sorrow is just a troll so this will be my final explanation on the perplexity matter.

Yes, you can condi overload a frontline by putting out massive amounts of quickly reapplying conditions. Perplexity can not quickly reapply its confusion against a proper frontline. It just will not happen. Therefore, confusion through perplexity on an opponents frontline is not viable.

This “GvG” clusterbleep here reminds me a lot of Dragon Nest 8v8 stuff. The game had great combat and on a small scale the fights are visible like 1v1, 2v2 etc. But every player has so many flashy abilities that when it’s an 8v8 it’s just a giant friggin mess.

Look here lol : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SQFPIL6sro

You are right, we should not allow any forms of play that involve visual clutter until it get resolved. (Goodbye the entirety of SPvP, WvW, and PvE)

The not sarcastic reply is: The only form of pvp that does not have visual clutter is possibly 1v1.

D/D, Staff Elementalist

(edited by Gorefiend.9675)

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Decrypter.1785

Decrypter.1785

The guild lord + 10 v 10 could be epic + guild ladder + observe with MATS regional + finals , there fixed pvp ty

[WM]give us in game ladder

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: alcopaul.2156

alcopaul.2156

A.NET balances the whole game around capture the kittening 3 points game.

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Mathias.9657

Mathias.9657

This “GvG” clusterbleep here reminds me a lot of Dragon Nest 8v8 stuff. The game had great combat and on a small scale the fights are visible like 1v1, 2v2 etc. But every player has so many flashy abilities that when it’s an 8v8 it’s just a giant friggin mess.

Look here lol : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SQFPIL6sro

Looks like GW2 pve, and a lot of the time pvp.

Back to WoW, make GW2 fun please.

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

This “GvG” clusterbleep here reminds me a lot of Dragon Nest 8v8 stuff. The game had great combat and on a small scale the fights are visible like 1v1, 2v2 etc. But every player has so many flashy abilities that when it’s an 8v8 it’s just a giant friggin mess.

Look here lol : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SQFPIL6sro

then the issue is the flashy skills which I totally agree with.
so toning down the flashiness will make things all right correct?

Xxkakarot [GF] Good Fights
Dark Wizard Incar [GF] Good Fights
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Jinks.2057

Jinks.2057

There is no argument against this current form of GvG except personal preference.

The ppl arguing against literally have no idea what they are talking about but the ppl for GvG have lots of experience in the PvP side.

Remember that….they chose GvG over PvP for a reason

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: ensoriki.5789

ensoriki.5789

This “GvG” clusterbleep here reminds me a lot of Dragon Nest 8v8 stuff. The game had great combat and on a small scale the fights are visible like 1v1, 2v2 etc. But every player has so many flashy abilities that when it’s an 8v8 it’s just a giant friggin mess.

Look here lol : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SQFPIL6sro

then the issue is the flashy skills which I totally agree with.
so toning down the flashiness will make things all right correct?

Not really, part of why we got this 5v5 is the problems they had with 8v8 in the past. 10v10 or 15v15 is just pushing further through what they found problematic. Getting 20 players together isn’t easy or common enough for them to encourage. It’ll likely backfire on them.

The great forum duppy.

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: KarlaGrey.5903

KarlaGrey.5903

Am I the only one who finds it preposterous to see the term ‘gvg’ (ab)used in GW2 as means to describe random mass death matches in a pve environment?

You sure got nerves.

RIP ‘gf left me coz of ladderboard’ Total views: 71,688 Total posts: 363

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Stonewall.9467

Stonewall.9467

The guild lord + 10 v 10 could be epic + guild ladder + observe with MATS regional + finals , there fixed pvp ty

A bump from one Gw1 Vet to another, this game needs more Gw1….

~Shadow Gypsies~ [SG]
| S T Ø N E W A L L | Guardian
Jade Quarry Since Beta

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: matjazmuhic.1649

matjazmuhic.1649

The guild lord + 10 v 10 could be epic + guild ladder + observe with MATS regional + finals , there fixed pvp ty

A bump from one Gw1 Vet to another, this game needs more Gw1….

It sure does need more Gw1. That’s why I preordered. I thought pvp was going to be more like Gw1. :/

PvP's unintentional game mode

in PvP

Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

Am I the only one who finds it preposterous to see the term ‘gvg’ (ab)used in GW2 as means to describe random mass death matches in a pve environment?

You sure got nerves.

The players who know the term gvg dont play the game anymore. The new generation dont even know what competition is.

Read It Backwards [BooN]