PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

Engineer kits without cooldown is unbalance and a bit unfair. Why? These are some of the reason.

1) Combat wise
You can’t predict what an engineer gonna use, unlike all other profession, they can swap in and out of their weapon and kits with only half a sec delay. These make playing against an engineer unreadable compared to other profession.

2) Unlimited and unstoppable control
These make engineer one of the best profession at control. Let say you take 2 weapon kits, you can access all your control ability with no down side, no cooldown in between them and be able to swap back to your 1st weapon in no time.

I think a 5sec cooldown in between weapon kits is fair, and it still allow the engineer to fully utilize their trait speedy kits and invigorating speed.

But engineer don’t have a second weapon, so having to use a utility slot for a weapon kit wouldn’t having no cooldown in between them a given.
Engineer have a utility belt full of skill whenever a utility slot is taken, therefore having a weapon kit on your skill bar you gain a utility slot too. Taking a utility skill give you 2 utility skill. All profession have cooldown on weapon swap, having none on an engineer with almost the same amount of utility is really strong.

But mesmer and ele also have four F1 to F4 skill.
Ele have to trait into arcane for useful buff on attunement swap and they normally have longer cool down(like weapon swap) and need to be into 30arcane to get the cooldown to almost 10 sec but engineer don’t need to trait it and no need to go deep into any trait to gain no cooldown on weapon kits.
Mesmer have 4 utility F1 to F4 but they need a prerequisite, they need clones or need to go deep into Illusion trait for illusionary persona to use it without summoning illusions. Without a fully summoning 3 clones all the skill have weaker effects. Engineer don’t need to trait, don’t need prerequisite an have all their utility skill on F1 to F4 at their prime and still have no cooldown on their weapon swap.

You can easily see how a good engineer is so hard to control and hard to read by looking at teldoo play. (i don’t hate teldoo, i admire him, his a good player.) How strong an engineer can control a node and and survive even with 1 utility skill on their slot. They have unparalleled control and offensive with defense just by having no cooldown on their weapon swap.

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Posted by: Vena.8436

Vena.8436

They do have a cooldown, its a global 1-sec on equip/unequip for kits. Putting that to five seconds, or just putting on an additional 5-sec cooldown may well just murder the class without major other changes.

Your comparison is otherwise flawed because you’re comparing a main mechanic of the class (engineers) with general mechanic of the mesmer. Yes, Mesmers have a prerequisite but they also have clones which do more than just stand there, something that an engineer doesn’t have access to while he may be swapping weapons and using his F-keys. The elementalists have access to four completely different sets which, technically, you can also do with a engineer but why the hell would you? I don’t think there’s an actual viable spec with four kits unlike the almost innately viable 4 elementalist attunements.

Vena/Var – Guardian/Thief
[Eon] – Blackgate

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Posted by: stof.9341

stof.9341

The OP post can be summed as :

Engineers are different, they need to be the same for balance.

A game where everyone plays the same class with same weapon and same skills would be balanced yes. But it’s not the only way to achieve it. Asking ANet to make all classes the same will not improve the game.

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Posted by: Darek.1836

Darek.1836

I think a 2-3s delay would be better but imo it wouldn’t make much difference

Holy
Sharks With Lazers [PEW]

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

They do have a cooldown, its a global 1-sec on equip/unequip for kits. Putting that to five seconds, or just putting on an additional 5-sec cooldown may well just murder the class without major other changes.

Your comparison is otherwise flawed because you’re comparing a main mechanic of the class (engineers) with general mechanic of the mesmer. Yes, Mesmers have a prerequisite but they also have clones which do more than just stand there, something that an engineer doesn’t have access to while he may be swapping weapons and using his F-keys. The elementalists have access to four completely different sets which, technically, you can also do with a engineer but why the hell would you? I don’t think there’s an actual viable spec with four kits unlike the almost innately viable 4 elementalist attunements.

All classes also have the same global cooldown to swap weapon, half to 1 sec so that if 1sec to equip and unequip for engineer than it make other profession 11 sec to swap weapon too , so 5 sec if not too much.

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

The OP post can be summed as :

Engineers are different, they need to be the same for balance.

A game where everyone plays the same class with same weapon and same skills would be balanced yes. But it’s not the only way to achieve it. Asking ANet to make all classes the same will not improve the game.

Then balance will never be achieve.

I no trying to make all classes monotone, but if to make things balance some similar rule set and machanic have to brought on par. What make certian classes strong is what other classes don;t have, but this no cooldown on weapon swap make engineer kitten strong, but not as obvious as it HgH counter part or ranger current pet and their strong passive heal in these new meta that have burst tone down.

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Posted by: Swiftstomp.5203

Swiftstomp.5203

So you think the toolbelt abilities are worth as much as another professions utilities?
So you think a kit is as strong as another professions weapon skills?

Even IF you could answer both questions with yes:
Where would our additional Sigils be placed, as Engineers could still slot only one Set?
Where would your proposed CD place the Engineer in terms of gameplay, to set them appart from say warriors (who also mostly use 5sec swapping CDs) or any other class, really?
and lastly: Gimme teh Signets!

All things must NOT be equal!

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

Huh, guess the OP should try playing an engineer instead of spouting this nonsense. Comparing toolbelt to utilities is simply insane, and we already pay a price for the versatility given by the kit (even when we don’t use them) in a reduced dps on our weapons/kits.

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Posted by: stof.9341

stof.9341

I don’t see that reduced dps on weapons/kits. I find my engineer to be rather strong on that point.

Of course, I’m taking into account the fact that practically all our weapons are ranged so I don’t compare my DPS to a GS warrior. Ranged weapons all have rather weak DPS. Except engineer grenade kit.

Our toolbelt skills are weaker than utilities yes. But we got 4 of them.

As I said already, if you compare an engineer with 1 kit to another standard class, you got :
- Engineer got 1s CD weapon swap instead of 5/10s
- Engineer got 1 less utility skill
- Engineer got 4 toolbelt skills which are tiny utilities

So, isn’t the loss of one utility skill worth getting 1s CD only on weapon swap and 4 toolbelt skills?

(edited by stof.9341)

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

So you think the toolbelt abilities are worth as much as another professions utilities?
So you think a kit is as strong as another professions weapon skills?

Even IF you could answer both questions with yes:
Where would our additional Sigils be placed, as Engineers could still slot only one Set?
Where would your proposed CD place the Engineer in terms of gameplay, to set them appart from say warriors (who also mostly use 5sec swapping CDs) or any other class, really?
and lastly: Gimme teh Signets!

All things must NOT be equal!

Ele don’t have extra sigil also have cooldown, Most classes use 2 handed weapon , so where their extra sigil and the use the same sigil like what is used on the main weapon, sigil of fire, air. 1 sigil is always use as force or crit on off-handed, pistol base dmg is one of the highest in game, check with the pvp vendor which weapon beat pistol on dmg. So not all thing are fair, but having no same restriction place on all classes, hurt balance.

P.S:You can have the signet too, most profession don’t use them except those that don’t have passive stats like signet of illusion, infiltrator signet for example.

(edited by LonelyReaper.8075)

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

Huh, guess the OP should try playing an engineer instead of spouting this nonsense. Comparing toolbelt to utilities is simply insane, and we already pay a price for the versatility given by the kit (even when we don’t use them) in a reduced dps on our weapons/kits.

Engineer have great dps, don’t lie, i have an engineer, HgH to power 100nades that got nerf but still somewhat deal the same dps. I play an engineer too, not like i don’t know their traits, weapon and skill setup. Don’t call pick on me without feedback why you think it fair, stay on topic.

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Posted by: RoRo.8270

RoRo.8270

They do have a cooldown, its a global 1-sec on equip/unequip for kits. Putting that to five seconds, or just putting on an additional 5-sec cooldown may well just murder the class without major other changes.

Your comparison is otherwise flawed because you’re comparing a main mechanic of the class (engineers) with general mechanic of the mesmer. Yes, Mesmers have a prerequisite but they also have clones which do more than just stand there, something that an engineer doesn’t have access to while he may be swapping weapons and using his F-keys. The elementalists have access to four completely different sets which, technically, you can also do with a engineer but why the hell would you? I don’t think there’s an actual viable spec with four kits unlike the almost innately viable 4 elementalist attunements.

All classes also have the same global cooldown to swap weapon, half to 1 sec so that if 1sec to equip and unequip for engineer than it make other profession 11 sec to swap weapon too , so 5 sec if not too much.

Yes because other classes are required to put their other weapon sets as utilities and engies obviously can wield a rifle, pistol/shield at the sametime

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

I don’t see that reduced dps on weapons/kits. I find my engineer to be rather strong on that point.

Of course, I’m taking into account the fact that practically all our weapons are ranged so I don’t compare my DPS to a GS warrior. Ranged weapons all have rather weak DPS. Except engineer grenade kit.

Our toolbelt skills are weaker than utilities yes. But we got 4 of them.

As I said already, if you compare an engineer with 1 kit to another standard class, you got :
- Engineer got 1s CD weapon swap instead of 5/10s
- Engineer got 1 less utility skill
- Engineer got 4 toolbelt skills which are tiny utilities

So, isn’t the loss of one utility skill worth getting 1s CD only on weapon swap and 4 toolbelt skills?

I think its powerful and bit unfair as stated at the start, 4 small utility is not small at all, look at elixir S, it like mist form with invi or stability that comes for free, ele don’t have that. I think they over compensate engineer for only having 1 weapon without swap for no cooldown and 3 utility skill(cuz most profession have 1, so its extra 3). So i don’t think having cooldown on weapon kits is weak, and with the recent nerf of a few highest dps, thief and mesmer, i don’t see how 5sec will destroy engineer or their dps but it will bring their control and unpredictability down to par with other classes.

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

I don’t see that reduced dps on weapons/kits. I find my engineer to be rather strong on that point.

Of course, I’m taking into account the fact that practically all our weapons are ranged so I don’t compare my DPS to a GS warrior. Ranged weapons all have rather weak DPS. Except engineer grenade kit.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/999247
Guess i remembered wrong. Devs’ vision is about main hand weapons. Anyway, i still don’t find our kits particularly strong. All of them need to be traited for them to be decent, especially grenades. And for the good ones there is always some drawback, be it dispersion (for grenades) or delay (bombs).

Our toolbelt skills are weaker than utilities yes. But we got 4 of them.

As I said already, if you compare an engineer with 1 kit to another standard class, you got :
- Engineer got 1s CD instead of 5/10s
- Engineer got 1 less utility skill
- Engineer got 4 toolbelt skills which are tiny utilities

So, isn’t the loss of one utility skill worth getting 1s CD only on weapon swap and 4 toolbelt skills?

Putting aside the general usefulness of almost all the toolbelt skills, your comparison doesn’t take in account that toolbelts are our actual class mechanic and thus, if you want to compare how swaps work, the only thing right there is that we get a reduced cooldown at the cost of an utility skill. And we need an heavy investment on traits per every single kit to make them decent.

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

They do have a cooldown, its a global 1-sec on equip/unequip for kits. Putting that to five seconds, or just putting on an additional 5-sec cooldown may well just murder the class without major other changes.

Your comparison is otherwise flawed because you’re comparing a main mechanic of the class (engineers) with general mechanic of the mesmer. Yes, Mesmers have a prerequisite but they also have clones which do more than just stand there, something that an engineer doesn’t have access to while he may be swapping weapons and using his F-keys. The elementalists have access to four completely different sets which, technically, you can also do with a engineer but why the hell would you? I don’t think there’s an actual viable spec with four kits unlike the almost innately viable 4 elementalist attunements.

All classes also have the same global cooldown to swap weapon, half to 1 sec so that if 1sec to equip and unequip for engineer than it make other profession 11 sec to swap weapon too , so 5 sec if not too much.

Yes because other classes are required to put their other weapon sets as utilities and engies obviously can wield a rifle, pistol/shield at the sametime

Take a look at Ele, they don’t have extra weapon too, and take a look at all build sigil of fire and air on most of their 2handed weapon. It not much different that engineer if you take a good look at them.

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Posted by: Walorx.5129

Walorx.5129

Absolutely not, that would single handedly DESTORY the class as a whole. Just because we’re the only class without easily readable rotations doesn’t even slighty mean we’re overpowered. As much as I hate to say it, it could just be a l2p thing on your part in regards to dealing with engineers as a whole who don’t play HGH.

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Posted by: Avead.5760

Avead.5760

Im not in the position to claim if kits are balanced with the 1 sec or so cooldown.
But you gotta admit engie is the only class than can play completely reactionally.
With every other class including elementealist you gotta “predict” ,be somewhat proactive ..like swiching weapon for that cc will benefit for example more than keeping your high dps one or getting in that attunement for the buff or on switch effect is worth giving up the current skill set et..
I think as a concept engie is an easy class for that reason.
It only becomes hard to play cause people realise they have the option to completely react and so can easily see their mistakes which is harder than other classes where the line of good play and bad is more ..lets say blurred..
But sure it can be balanced the way it is now..Besides its fun!

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Posted by: jportell.2197

jportell.2197

Simply… NO engineer kits are fine and keep the class interesting.

Johnny The Gray
GASM’s Bunker Mesmer

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

Our toolbelt skills are weaker than utilities yes. But we got 4 of them.

As I said already, if you compare an engineer with 1 kit to another standard class, you got :
- Engineer got 1s CD instead of 5/10s
- Engineer got 1 less utility skill
- Engineer got 4 toolbelt skills which are tiny utilities

So, isn’t the loss of one utility skill worth getting 1s CD only on weapon swap and 4 toolbelt skills?

Putting aside the general usefulness of almost all the toolbelt skills, your comparison doesn’t take in account that toolbelts are our actual class mechanic and thus, if you want to compare how swaps work, the only thing right there is that we get a reduced cooldown at the cost of an utility skill. And we need an heavy investment on traits per every single kit to make them decent.

See my reasoning on the opening, compare mesmer to engineer, let say most profession have 1 utility skill so that makes engineer and mesmer having 3 more, 1 for having no weapon on swap so that make it 2 extra compared to other classes and mesmer 3 extra. So mesmer need to ramp up or trait to use their utility and it varies with the condition meet, engineer on the other hand have none, their dont need to ramp up or meet any condition or trait them to have them work at their full power. So if you take into account, its a bit unfair. That why i say a 5 sec cd is needed to bring this down to par, it will get worst once engineer get more viable builds and more classes get brought to balance.

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

I think its powerful and bit unfair as stated at the start, 4 small utility is not small at all, look at elixir S, it like mist form with invi or stability that comes for free, ele don’t have that. I think they over compensate engineer for only having 1 weapon without swap for no cooldown and 3 utility skill(cuz most profession have 1, so its extra 3). So i don’t think having cooldown on weapon kits is weak, and with the recent nerf of a few highest dps, thief and mesmer, i don’t see how 5sec will destroy engineer or their dps but it will bring their control and unpredictability down to par with other classes.

Toss Elixir S is one of the most unreliable skills of the game. Stealth and stability have got pretty different uses, and we haven’t got any way to choose what we’ll get. And many of the toss elixirs are like that, utterly random. That’s also why they’re pretty bad as far as toolbelt skills go.
And you are putting together two separate things: our class mechanics and weapon swapping.

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Posted by: NevirSayDie.6235

NevirSayDie.6235

You seem to be upset by the number of cc skills an engineer can take. What makes you think that a kit cooldown would “fix” that “problem”? There are three kits that have a cc skill—bombs, flamethrower, and toolkit. They each have one cc skill—a small pushback, a pull with a 1 and 1/4 second cast time, and something called “big ’ol bomb,” which launches people about 3 seconds after the skill is activated.

If someone beat you with two or three of those kits, you should be congratulating them, because that would be similar to a mace/mace-hammer signet bunker warrior beating you. Hint: mace/mace-hammer warriors are not OP.

I apologize for my strong reaction, but stuff like has to be argued against. It would destroy an entire profession for the sake of eliminating one weak niche build.

(While we’re here, could engineer invention line turret traits get a fix? They all currently have no effect. I’m not joking.)

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

Absolutely not, that would single handedly DESTORY the class as a whole. Just because we’re the only class without easily readable rotations doesn’t even slighty mean we’re overpowered. As much as I hate to say it, it could just be a l2p thing on your part in regards to dealing with engineers as a whole who don’t play HGH.

how are u readable, i have an engineer and see how teldo plays , its not readable at all, bomb and grenade kit look almost the same, you can swap in and out of weapon as you like for the skill you need without any downtime or downside. With good latency , you can see how fast kits get swap, it less than a sec. I still dont see a readable skill on engineer as most of them have their effect appear as soon as the animation appear. Thier not like mesmer summoning, ele channeling, thief leaping or chain of burst set up, its all about spamming that skill as the fight call for it. You can practically out play an opponent with that none existence weapon cool down.

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

I think its powerful and bit unfair as stated at the start, 4 small utility is not small at all, look at elixir S, it like mist form with invi or stability that comes for free, ele don’t have that. I think they over compensate engineer for only having 1 weapon without swap for no cooldown and 3 utility skill(cuz most profession have 1, so its extra 3). So i don’t think having cooldown on weapon kits is weak, and with the recent nerf of a few highest dps, thief and mesmer, i don’t see how 5sec will destroy engineer or their dps but it will bring their control and unpredictability down to par with other classes.

Toss Elixir S is one of the most unreliable skills of the game. Stealth and stability have got pretty different uses, and we haven’t got any way to choose what we’ll get. And many of the toss elixirs are like that, utterly random. That’s also why they’re pretty bad as far as toolbelt skills go.
And you are putting together two separate things: our class mechanics and weapon swapping.

Its a good stomping skill and it help your team in so many way. A stealth skill can’t be countered, a stability skill also make it hard to counter except dodging. There so many things that utility can do, like elixir C, with it good rez on it tool belt.

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Posted by: Walorx.5129

Walorx.5129

Try reading what I wrote before arguing against it. I said engineers are NOT readable because most other classes use basic rotations (rtl+updraft+fire, bulls charge+frenzy+100b+whirlwind, etc etc) while we on the other hand, use our skills and kits as situations arise midfight. Adding a 5s+ cool down on kit swapping would negate most of our ability to play the class as a whole and would ultimately ruin all builds that use kits (every build).

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

You seem to be upset by the number of cc skills an engineer can take. What makes you think that a kit cooldown would “fix” that “problem”? There are three kits that have a cc skill—bombs, flamethrower, and toolkit. They each have one cc skill—a small pushback, a pull with a 1 and 1/4 second cast time, and something called “big ’ol bomb,” which launches people about 3 seconds after the skill is activated.

If someone beat you with two or three of those kits, you should be congratulating them, because that would be similar to a mace/mace-hammer signet bunker warrior beating you. Hint: mace/mace-hammer warriors are not OP.

I apologize for my strong reaction, but stuff like has to be argued against. It would destroy an entire profession for the sake of eliminating one weak niche build.

(While we’re here, could engineer invention line turret traits get a fix? They all currently have no effect. I’m not joking.)

It never about a few cc skill, it about the whole picture. What can 0sec weapon swapping do to all classes. Take a look , if mesmer have no weapon swap, i can summon 2 phantasm at once in 3sec and go back to sword and blurred frenzy you, then come back to gs when you try to run away from blurred and shatter. I can swap back to sword again cuz now you wanna come melee and i can blurred frenzy you again. So how is that readable in anyway, you cannot counter me fast enough when you have a cooldown on weapon swapping. It goes same for engineer, you go range i use grenade, u come melee i use pistol sheild or toolkit or bomb kit , you try to aviod i go back to grenade, you chain me i use shield to toolkit block to bombkit smoke field. How that not op, all your skill are at dispose with only global cooldown on weapon swapping. Thats not fair.

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Posted by: Kardiamond.6952

Kardiamond.6952

Thief have no cooldown on weapon skill
Elementalist got 4 weapon slot
Mesmer have clone/phantasm/shatter
Warrior have Burst skill
Necromancer got a second form
Guardian got perma signet
Ranger get a Pet

All those thing are unique, not shared by other class. Just like non-CD kit. Why to you compare class mecanism between themself? They are unique, no one can have the same as the other.

“But the mesmer don’t have it” No they don’t, but my engineer don’t have phantasm/shatter ether.

Being an engineer, I can read other engineer. There is still a delay during the swap. And you usually know what kit they are swapping too.

Rotthen (Necro) / Zhyx (Engineer) /Inglorious Beasterd (Ranger)
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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

Try reading what I wrote before arguing against it. I said engineers are NOT readable because most other classes use basic rotations (rtl+updraft+fire, bulls charge+frenzy+100b+whirlwind, etc etc) while we on the other hand, use our skills and kits as situations arise midfight. Adding a 5s+ cool down on kit swapping would negate most of our ability to play the class as a whole and would ultimately ruin all builds that use kits (every build).

That what i say, that what make you powerful, please read what i say before pointing that back at me. You are very reactive, no cooldown on weapon make it so easy to pull it off. If warrior have no cooldown on weapon swap what do you think they will do, they will wield their gs to bait(making you think their gonna 100blade combo) swap to shield and sheild bash(bait your dodge)>bull charge immediately with haste in between and have gs swap instantly for a 100blades. Try to counter that , no they can’t their so readable.

It also that most classes have cooldown on weapon swap that make it so easy to predict. Players tend to follow the best rotation you need when you have restriction placed on them. All those above you stated are to maximize that effectiveness, but now engineer have none, you can bait and bluff in a game of poker, then swap to what ever weapon you like and pull your combo with no downside.

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Posted by: yolosmurf.8052

yolosmurf.8052

I suggest: give us a real weapon swap and letting us choose 1 of our kits as the 2nd weapon and buff kits

will be the same as mesmer with 3 utility and 4 F skills

Also

Kits are generally somewhat bad and/or very situational with higher cooldowns than on normal weapons. Grenade kit being the only exception offering somewhat sustained dps but not much else.

I`d trade my grenade kit for sword/dagger or dagger/pistol thief dmg+utility anyday (i know blah blah they got a few K less hp who cares)

(edited by yolosmurf.8052)

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

Thief have no cooldown on weapon skill
Elementalist got 4 weapon slot
Mesmer have clone/phantasm/shatter
Warrior have Burst skill
Necromancer got a second form
Guardian got perma signet
Ranger get a Pet

All those thing are unique, not shared by other class. Just like non-CD kit. Why to you compare class mecanism between themself? They are unique, no one can have the same as the other.

“But the mesmer don’t have it” No they don’t, but my engineer don’t have phantasm/shatter ether.

Being an engineer, I can read other engineer. There is still a delay during the swap. And you usually know what kit they are swapping too.
kitten Engineer! They have something other don’t have! Burn them! Nerf them once again.

Thief have no cooldown on weapon skill
( what are you talking about, innitiative have cooldown and is a finite source in a short time)

Elementalist got 4 weapon slot
(they have longer cooldown on weapon swap than all other profession and have the same down side of having 1 set of weapon and no utility on F1 to F4)

Mesmer have clone/phantasm/shatter
(Thats mesmers core machanic like engineer turret, thief’s thief, necro minion, rangers pet, ele summon and their leash to control their F1 to F4 utility skill)

Warrior have Burst skill
(Engineer now have 3 extra utility then warrior, is that fair<read my previous reply.>)

Necromancer got a second form
(That their mechanic and core, and you now have extra 3 utility skill compare to necro with addition to no cooldown on weapon swap.)

Guardian got perma signet.
(You got 1 extra utility and no cooldown on weapon swap.)

Ranger get a Pet
(Aside from their imba pet swapping at will that every know how op it is (or semi balance with thier downside), you still have more 1 extra utility then them and no cooldown on weapon swap.)

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: NevirSayDie.6235

NevirSayDie.6235

You seem to be upset by the number of cc skills an engineer can take. What makes you think that a kit cooldown would “fix” that “problem”? There are three kits that have a cc skill—bombs, flamethrower, and toolkit. They each have one cc skill—a small pushback, a pull with a 1 and 1/4 second cast time, and something called “big ’ol bomb,” which launches people about 3 seconds after the skill is activated.

If someone beat you with two or three of those kits, you should be congratulating them, because that would be similar to a mace/mace-hammer signet bunker warrior beating you. Hint: mace/mace-hammer warriors are not OP.

I apologize for my strong reaction, but stuff like has to be argued against. It would destroy an entire profession for the sake of eliminating one weak niche build.

(While we’re here, could engineer invention line turret traits get a fix? They all currently have no effect. I’m not joking.)

It never about a few cc skill, it about the whole picture. What can 0sec weapon swapping do to all classes. Take a look , if mesmer have no weapon swap, i can summon 2 phantasm at once in 3sec and go back to sword and blurred frenzy you, then come back to gs when you try to run away from blurred and shatter. I can swap back to sword again cuz now you wanna come melee and i can blurred frenzy you again. So how is that readable in anyway, you cannot counter me fast enough when you have a cooldown on weapon swapping. It goes same for engineer, you go range i use grenade, u come melee i use pistol sheild or toolkit or bomb kit , you try to aviod i go back to grenade, you chain me i use shield to toolkit block to bombkit smoke field. How that not op, all your skill are at dispose with only global cooldown on weapon swapping. Thats not fair.

You can actually summon three—not two—phantasms in three seconds on a mesmer already, and then do all that stuff that you said with your weapons.

Grenades/bombs/toolkit would be a fun build to play, but it wouldn’t have any stunbreaks or condition removal. So it wouldn’t matter if you used toolkit block and smoke bomb at the same time, although that does sound powerful.

Again, sorry for the sarcasm. I used to be confident that Anet was smart enough to ignore stuff like this, but recently I’m not sure—they removed one engineer build after referencing a photoshopped screenshot someone posted in the WvW forums in a SoTG.

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

I suggest: give us a real weapon swap and letting us choose 1 of our kits as the 2nd weapon and buff kits

will be the same as mesmer with 3 utility and 4 F skills

Also

Kits are generally somewhat bad and/or very situational with higher cooldowns than on normal weapons. Grenade kit being the only exception offering somewhat sustained dps but not much else.

I`d trade my grenade kit for sword/dagger or dagger/pistol thief dmg+utility anyday (i know blah blah they got a few K less hp who cares)

Engineer kits’s skill cooldown is fine, its like certain weapon have longer cooldown on certain skill on certain weapon set.)

On the contrary, engineer dps is now better than thief’s in term of sustain and burst, depend on builds. Engineer are still better than thief in a mile stone in tpvp, so i wouldn’t trade what engineer have for some extra burst and die like them.

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: Amadeus.5687

Amadeus.5687

@LonelyReaper

Whare you are suggesting is the worst Idea I have yet come across about Engineers! Gratz with that!

First off, your logic is flawed, you try to compare class mechanic’s and Weapon swapping in a weird logic:

As an Engineer we can pick up Kits, they have no cooldown, but take 1 second to equip! This comes at a price:
1. No second weapon (and only 3 real weapon options, which makes it quite easy to figure out what we got up that sleeve)
2. It takes up an Utility slot, leaving us with one utility skill less to pick (Means less Stun Breaks, Less Condition removal ect, which punish us A LOT in multi kits builds)
3. Reduced Damage, and Weapon Kit’s are specialised in a way normal Weapons ain’t! We need to spend a lot of traits on them, and most kit’s can’t work in all situations (See as an Example Bomb Kit, Pure melee, no semi ranged or Gap Closing ability in the set, which means I’m useless if stuck in it at range for 5 seconds) – Edit: Also our Skill 1# on all kits and Weapons are some of the worst in the game, also one of the prices.

Now, we do also have our Tool Belt, in which we gain an bonus skill (Close to all of them is weaker then a standard Utility Skill of ours and other proffesions), But that’s our Class Mechanic, it’s out UNIQUE thing. it’s need to be seen on with the proffession as a whole!

Mesmers F1-F4 skills wouldn’t make any sense of work, if they didn’t have any way to make the Clones or Phantasm, or even more silly, if they only could get acces to them trough Utility skills.

Comparing our Kit Swapping with Elementalists Attunement swapping I understand, but you do it a dumb way, mostly because, they allways get 4 “Weapon” sets, that function very well with each other, and still having acces to Utility Skills.

They will allways have them, no matter what, If I pick 3x Elixirs or Turrets as an Engineer, I will still have only my Main hand weapons, which is why we get the Tool Belt skills, to “make” up, for the lack of weapon swapping (which is kinda flawed, in special Turret’s, but that’s another debate)

Anyhow, your idea is silly and unessacry, the Engineer is in a pretty sweet spot at the given time, the only one that’s “maybe” OP, is HGH, which really ain’t because there is no CD on swapping, but how well Engineer scales with Might (and how silly long duration Grenade Kit’s conditions have)

(edited by Amadeus.5687)

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

You seem to be upset by the number of cc skills an engineer can take. What makes you think that a kit cooldown would “fix” that “problem”? There are three kits that have a cc skill—bombs, flamethrower, and toolkit. They each have one cc skill—a small pushback, a pull with a 1 and 1/4 second cast time, and something called “big ’ol bomb,” which launches people about 3 seconds after the skill is activated.

If someone beat you with two or three of those kits, you should be congratulating them, because that would be similar to a mace/mace-hammer signet bunker warrior beating you. Hint: mace/mace-hammer warriors are not OP.

I apologize for my strong reaction, but stuff like has to be argued against. It would destroy an entire profession for the sake of eliminating one weak niche build.

(While we’re here, could engineer invention line turret traits get a fix? They all currently have no effect. I’m not joking.)

It never about a few cc skill, it about the whole picture. What can 0sec weapon swapping do to all classes. Take a look , if mesmer have no weapon swap, i can summon 2 phantasm at once in 3sec and go back to sword and blurred frenzy you, then come back to gs when you try to run away from blurred and shatter. I can swap back to sword again cuz now you wanna come melee and i can blurred frenzy you again. So how is that readable in anyway, you cannot counter me fast enough when you have a cooldown on weapon swapping. It goes same for engineer, you go range i use grenade, u come melee i use pistol sheild or toolkit or bomb kit , you try to aviod i go back to grenade, you chain me i use shield to toolkit block to bombkit smoke field. How that not op, all your skill are at dispose with only global cooldown on weapon swapping. Thats not fair.

You can actually summon three—not two—phantasms in three seconds on a mesmer already, and then do all that stuff that you said with your weapons.

Grenades/bombs/toolkit would be a fun build to play, but it wouldn’t have any stunbreaks or condition removal. So it wouldn’t matter if you used toolkit block and smoke bomb at the same time, although that does sound powerful.

Again, sorry for the sarcasm. I used to be confident that Anet was smart enough to ignore stuff like this, but recently I’m not sure—they removed one engineer build after referencing a photoshopped screenshot someone posted in the WvW forums in a SoTG.

Changes are not always welcome, powerful or op things will always be missed like all other classes. All my character adapt to that changes, it about being more balance throughout the board.

2 phantasm from skill, but did you read that you can’t choose your other weapon skill at will. If i wanted sword for melee, but i just swap from gs, would i have it, no. If i wanted gs instead of sword to chase a target at range when i just swap from sword, no. Engineer, i can swap at will, you come melee i use toolkit/sheild, you go range i use grenade. That how flexible engineer can be and that is one powerful side that haven’t been notice with all the op effect bug and skill that some other profession have that overshadow this.

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

@Amadeus.5687

First off, your logic is flawed, you try to compare class mechanic’s and Weapon swapping in a weird logic:
How is that flaw, you weapon skill get swap out for another skill set, is that flaw. you don’t change form, so not a transform skill, so how am i flawed in my logic.

As an Engineer we can pick up Kits, they have no cooldown, but take 1 second to equip! This comes at a price:
So do other profession, when they weapon swap, that half a sec or 1 sec , so why didn’t they get a cooldown for it like other profession. Reason of over compensation on missing 1 weapon set have been explain on the previous reply.

1. No second weapon (and only 3 real weapon options, which makes it quite easy to figure out what we got up that sleeve)
I did post on the reason how is this being over compensated with extra utility and no cooldown on weapon swap, pls refer to the top reply.

2. It takes up an Utility slot, leaving us with one utility skill less to pick (Means less Stun Breaks, Less Condition removal ect, which punish us A LOT in multi kits builds)
Also explain on previous post.

3. Reduced Damage, and Weapon Kit’s are specialised in a way normal Weapons ain’t! We need to spend a lot of traits on them, and most kit’s can’t work in all situations (See as an Example Bomb Kit, Pure melee, no semi ranged or Gap Closing ability in the set, which means I’m useless if stuck in it at range for 5 seconds)
That doesn’t make other classes any special, a lot of their weapon are based on trait line to improve their efficiency, that make no profession special except engineer with no cooldown on weapon swap.

Now, we do also have our Tool Belt, in which we gain an bonus skill (Close to all of them is weaker then a standard Utility Skill of ours and other proffesions), But that’s our Class Mechanic, it’s out UNIQUE thing. it’s need to be seen on with the proffession as a whole!
Its not weaker, it all situational as most utility slot are taken for and like elixir S and C are not at all weak on their toolbelt(some example), and if you call them weak for a few of them, other profession also have stupid utility that no 1 ever uses them, so engineer aren’t the only 1 facing this.

Why are you comparing with engineer to mesmer and ele.
I take into consideration of all profession, so in an argument. “why should engineer deserve a cooldown on weapon swap for balance.” I have to take into consideration why it was without it in the 1st place, to compensate 1 less weapon set, what did they get in return, no cooldown on weapon swap and extra utility on toolbelt kit. So now they have so much extra utility skill having no cooldown on weapon swap is powerful, but how long a cooldown on kit swap should be. 10 sec is too long it will destroy engineer, 5sec should reduce that unpredictability of engineer without destroying it. That how i came out with this topic.

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

I wouldn’t mind if engineer get no cooldown for weapon swap but come from a trait line some where that not a minor trait and is at rank master and above.

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: Kharr.5746

Kharr.5746

The OP has got to be one of the biggest trolls we’ve seen on the sPVP forums.

The kits are balanced around taking up very crucial utility skill slots and having cooldowns on the actual skills the kits grant. Swapping to a kit doesn’t make the skills magically recharge.

Complaining that kits make engis unpredictable is kind of hilarious. You can see what kit they are using by the giant hobo sack they wear. Each one looks unique. They are way more predictable than thieves+stealth or mesmers using stealth/clones/phantasms.

Honestly, I’d love to see you play a 4-kit engi build using their “unbalanced” low cooldown. You could totally fake out your opponents by chain kit swapping… or more realistically, you will get facerolled by every other class

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: jportell.2197

jportell.2197

Seriously Reaper… This is not an issue… I think you are the first person that has ever had an issue with this… Are engineer kits powerful? A couple can be… Some are kinda pathetic (looking at you flamethrower!) But all in all engi kits are lack luster until they are traited if the engineer is running a multi kit build they are making sacrifices else where be it condition removal might stacking (HGH -_-) but they make up for it with a little bit more versatility. Engineers got hosed by ANET with the lack of a weapon swap and the kits are the counter… So you are saying that medkit which isn’t that great of a healing skill but offers some small healing should have a CD no mater what? I’m sorry but you’re argument is flawed and if the engineers were going to have a CD on kits it would have happened long ago. (like in the alphas/betas)

Johnny The Gray
GASM’s Bunker Mesmer

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

The OP has got to be one of the biggest trolls we’ve seen on the sPVP forums.

The kits are balanced around taking up very crucial utility skill slots and having cooldowns on the actual skills the kits grant. Swapping to a kit doesn’t make the skills magically recharge.

Complaining that kits make engis unpredictable is kind of hilarious. You can see what kit they are using by the giant hobo sack they wear. Each one looks unique. They are way more predictable than thieves+stealth or mesmers using stealth/clones/phantasms.

Honestly, I’d love to see you play a 4-kit engi build using their “unbalanced” low cooldown. You could totally fake out your opponents by chain kit swapping… or more realistically, you will get facerolled by every other class

Call yourself a troll, read my post i stated how you got 2 – 3 extra utility slot compared to other classes. Try picking out and process that hobo sack your engineer is wearing on your opponent in this fast pace game. Tell me how unpridictable mesmer and thief are, see if any high ranking, experience, non-hotjoin hero tell you how easy to counter their chain of combo. See how teldoo is playing his 2 kits, 1 weapon and tell me its not strong, even he is a good players the non- existence cooldown is what make him even stronger.

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

Seriously Reaper… This is not an issue… I think you are the first person that has ever had an issue with this… Are engineer kits powerful? A couple can be… Some are kinda pathetic (looking at you flamethrower!) But all in all engi kits are lack luster until they are traited if the engineer is running a multi kit build they are making sacrifices else where be it condition removal might stacking (HGH -_-) but they make up for it with a little bit more versatility. Engineers got hosed by ANET with the lack of a weapon swap and the kits are the counter… So you are saying that medkit which isn’t that great of a healing skill but offers some small healing should have a CD no mater what? I’m sorry but you’re argument is flawed and if the engineers were going to have a CD on kits it would have happened long ago. (like in the alphas/betas)

It not an issue of being biased here, i love engineer, but no cooldown on weapon swap is kitten strong. It not realize at all with all the random bugs and stronger cheese skill used by other profession , but once all those get nerf this will become an issue.

Med kit, you would have already used up 5 sec or close to 5sec for that extra med pack and condition removal. So i don’t see a problem there.

My argument is not flawed, i have reason properly how those are seen in other profession too and how they have it and the only 1 is engineer than don’t have this basic combat mechanic restriction on them.

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: jportell.2197

jportell.2197

Except overall people seem to find balance to be somewhat decent right now. There are only a few specs here and there that are considered to be too strong. And those have been around for awhile meaning that they either will not get nerfed ever or that they are such an issue that trying to fix them will take more time than ANET currently has… Let them fix bugs and make sure the classes are working properly before this extremely unnecessary nerf is even thought of.

Johnny The Gray
GASM’s Bunker Mesmer

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: Amadeus.5687

Amadeus.5687

@LonelyReaper you clearly don’t know what you are talking about:

First off, the “Utility Skill” we get from Tool Belt is locked to our Utility Skill we pick, which means we can’t just pick whatever we like, let’s take your example, because I like to run that
Tool Kit and Grenade kit, you actually said Bomb kit as well, so here:
You get: Throw Wrence, Grenade Barrage and Big Old Bomb, which means: No Stun Break, No Condition Removal, No Boon granting skills of any sort.
Can you play like that? yes of cause you can, but the price for running the 3 kit’s are allready high, because you have none of the above mentioned.

Now, The only Tool Belt Skill that remove a condition, is Elixir C and Elixir R (which got a 120 sec CD, and ain’t meant as a condition removal per say). No other of them works as a condition removal nor a Stun break.

Now, you say we get an extra 2-3 utility, which again, is somewhat true, but yet not. First of, for each kit we pick, we “loose” one utility skill, so running one of these saxy 4 kit builds you talk about, would leave us with the exact same amount of utility skills as the rest! Now, if we do decide to not take up kit’s, let’s say we build a P/S Full Elixir Build, then you are right, I then have 4 “utility” skills more then the rest, but I have NO other weapon swap.

Also, our Tool Belt Skills are quite bad, many of them, the different is we can’t just pick the good ones and leave the bad ones alone, because if we want an utility skill we will get that Tool Belt Skill. Personal I hate Toss Elixir S, If it all ways gave Stealth I would love it, not this wierd thing it got going. It also goes the other way around, I find myself forced to use Rocket Boots because I want the Rocket Kick, even while Elixir R or S would have been a way better skill.

Now, the reason I say it’s silly you try compare a Mesmer ( Or any other proffession) with no CD on his weapon swapping to a Engineer with no CD on Kit Swapping, is because it makes no sense, at all! You simply can’t do it, no matter how you twist and turn it the proffessions are so different that something like that can’t be compared.

And the reason you are called a troll, is becuase you want something that works just fine, nerfed…

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: Kharr.5746

Kharr.5746

Call yourself a troll, read my post i stated how you got 2 – 3 extra utility slot compared to other classes. Try picking out and process that hobo sack your engineer is wearing on your opponent in this fast pace game. Tell me how unpridictable mesmer and thief are, see if any high ranking, experience, non-hotjoin hero tell you how easy to counter their chain of combo. See how teldoo is playing his 2 kits, 1 weapon and tell me its not strong, even he is a good players the non- existence cooldown is what make him even stronger.

This sounds like you just lack experience identifying the backpacks. Go make an engi and see how easy they are to identify.

FT = ORANGE top
EG = PINK top
Bomb kit = DARK BROWN barrel top
Grenade kit = Funny looking plank top
Healing kit = giant hobo sack

I take it that if you can identify the real mesmer from its clones, you can surely recognize the difference between the distinct colors: PINK, ORANGE, and DARK BROWN, right?

Edit: I forgot to include toolkit, which looks exactly like the bomb kit. That seems like a bug that Anet should fix. Toolkit used to have a distinct look. Not sure when they broke it.

(edited by Kharr.5746)

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: Amadeus.5687

Amadeus.5687

Also
^ What Kharr Said is right

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: jportell.2197

jportell.2197

Call yourself a troll, read my post i stated how you got 2 – 3 extra utility slot compared to other classes. Try picking out and process that hobo sack your engineer is wearing on your opponent in this fast pace game. Tell me how unpridictable mesmer and thief are, see if any high ranking, experience, non-hotjoin hero tell you how easy to counter their chain of combo. See how teldoo is playing his 2 kits, 1 weapon and tell me its not strong, even he is a good players the non- existence cooldown is what make him even stronger.

This sounds like you just lack experience identifying the backpacks. Go make an engi and see how easy they are to identify.

FT = ORANGE top
EG = PINK top
Bomb kit = DARK BROWN barrel top
Grenade kit = Funny looking plank top
Healing kit = giant hobo sack

I take it that if you can identify the real mesmer from its clones, you can surely recognize the difference between the distinct colors: PINK, ORANGE, and DARK BROWN, right?

Edit: I forgot to include toolkit, which looks exactly like the bomb kit. That seems like a bug that Anet should fix. Toolkit used to have a distinct look. Not sure when they broke it.

Toolkit should have a giant gear shield on your back until you use it and a wrench in one hand with the magnet in the other and #2 should be you spitting nails everywhere…. That’s right spitting them cuz engis eat that kitten

Johnny The Gray
GASM’s Bunker Mesmer

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: google.3709

google.3709

@jportell.2197
love the idea :] instead of backpack gear shield!

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

@LonelyReaper you clearly don’t know what you are talking about:

First off, the “Utility Skill” we get from Tool Belt is locked to our Utility Skill we pick, which means we can’t just pick whatever we like, let’s take your example, because I like to run that
Tool Kit and Grenade kit, you actually said Bomb kit as well, so here:
You get: Throw Wrence, Grenade Barrage and Big Old Bomb, which means: No Stun Break, No Condition Removal, No Boon granting skills of any sort.
Can you play like that? yes of cause you can, but the price for running the 3 kit’s are allready high, because you have none of the above mentioned.

Now, The only Tool Belt Skill that remove a condition, is Elixir C and Elixir R (which got a 120 sec CD, and ain’t meant as a condition removal per say). No other of them works as a condition removal nor a Stun break.

Now, you say we get an extra 2-3 utility, which again, is somewhat true, but yet not. First of, for each kit we pick, we “loose” one utility skill, so running one of these saxy 4 kit builds you talk about, would leave us with the exact same amount of utility skills as the rest! Now, if we do decide to not take up kit’s, let’s say we build a P/S Full Elixir Build, then you are right, I then have 4 “utility” skills more then the rest, but I have NO other weapon swap.

Also, our Tool Belt Skills are quite bad, many of them, the different is we can’t just pick the good ones and leave the bad ones alone, because if we want an utility skill we will get that Tool Belt Skill. Personal I hate Toss Elixir S, If it all ways gave Stealth I would love it, not this wierd thing it got going. It also goes the other way around, I find myself forced to use Rocket Boots because I want the Rocket Kick, even while Elixir R or S would have been a way better skill.

Now, the reason I say it’s silly you try compare a Mesmer ( Or any other proffession) with no CD on his weapon swapping to a Engineer with no CD on Kit Swapping, is because it makes no sense, at all! You simply can’t do it, no matter how you twist and turn it the proffessions are so different that something like that can’t be compared.

And the reason you are called a troll, is becuase you want something that works just fine, nerfed…

Simple, all classes are facing what you dislike too, we have tons of skill that we don’t like or like but is subpar, so we pick the best there is. Engineer aren’t the only 1 facing it. Elixir R got a 120sec cd on its toolbelt as it is kitten strong, it like asking all other profession skill rez to be less than 120sec and not to mention you can self rez unlike other profession(that super strong even with 120 cd). Elixir C give u team utility on a 30sec cd, i don’t find that weak, it ilke warrior shake it off. If every skill got stun break even on toolbelt, that will be super game breaking, so i not asking for nerf or op stuff i asking for balance. Did you realise, bomb kit and flame thrower kits is pick for its node control and dps, and its toolbelt skill give that too. Incendiary Ammo give extra condition dmg and big o bomb give node control, they aren’t weak.

From no logical point of view am i wrong, my suggestion may seem awful but it isn;t wrong at any point, so stop calling me names.

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: JinDaVikk.7291

JinDaVikk.7291

Let’s c here… I play Engineer… Experimental Puff and Purple Fleck..

Puff is hgh nade… But your talking about Purple Fleck!

Yes She is 3-4 kit bunker

Flamethrower is useless. (all around)
bomb kit is useless. (unless your a dps, still lame as nades do far better.)
elixir gun… has 4 useful skills+toolbelt. I run this as bunker on legacy.
tool kit… 2 skills both r amazing.
nade kit- nothing for bunking but nice dps.
med kit… always will b better than healing turret…. no matter what….

I generally run tool kit elix c and depending on map other skill and med kit.
rifle/throw nade…. Yes I can out cc a bunker guardian off point and CAP it over him. Yes I can 1v4 on legacy for a minute or more.
Engineers have highest skill cap due to number of skills when rolling 3-4 kits.
downsides…
NO CONDI REMOVAL IN KITS OMFG OMFG OMFG.
We have to run elix c…. or ANY condi build will have field day.
so… not a 4 kit build.
with other kits no stun breaker unless you count blind from flame kit… which its not.
no immobile breaker…. in kits.
so yea having all my util skills gone makes me soooooo op lemme tell ya…

O btw as a bunker they are helpful. As point roamer…. not so much. You will always run elix c or elixir traits. then generally nade kit for damage, as others stink. Then last util for grabs… but lets c I get 1 utility that I can chose? wow I feel special.

Team Radioactive
Crysis, Lil Damage, Ovi, Jindavikk, Guard
Causing cancer all day.

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

Call yourself a troll, read my post i stated how you got 2 – 3 extra utility slot compared to other classes. Try picking out and process that hobo sack your engineer is wearing on your opponent in this fast pace game. Tell me how unpridictable mesmer and thief are, see if any high ranking, experience, non-hotjoin hero tell you how easy to counter their chain of combo. See how teldoo is playing his 2 kits, 1 weapon and tell me its not strong, even he is a good players the non- existence cooldown is what make him even stronger.

This sounds like you just lack experience identifying the backpacks. Go make an engi and see how easy they are to identify.

FT = ORANGE top
EG = PINK top
Bomb kit = DARK BROWN barrel top
Grenade kit = Funny looking plank top
Healing kit = giant hobo sack

I take it that if you can identify the real mesmer from its clones, you can surely recognize the difference between the distinct colors: PINK, ORANGE, and DARK BROWN, right?

Edit: I forgot to include toolkit, which looks exactly like the bomb kit. That seems like a bug that Anet should fix. Toolkit used to have a distinct look. Not sure when they broke it.

Mesmer clones are awful to pick out, even top players agree. So what i stated stands, it is hard to differentiatie a backpack(which is also on some1 back not face) in the heat of a face pace battle and high animation clutter storm. So no single person can react fast enough in that situation. I have a engineer, so please read carefully before posting something i have reminded a lot of time, it not like i dont have 1 and come for the sake of QQing.

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

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Posted by: JinDaVikk.7291

JinDaVikk.7291

Actually your wrong lonely…

Takes me under a second to find real mesmer. And Yes its easy to guess when they are stealthed.

Team Radioactive
Crysis, Lil Damage, Ovi, Jindavikk, Guard
Causing cancer all day.

PvPEngineer Kits need cooldown for balance.

in PvP

Posted by: LonelyReaper.8075

LonelyReaper.8075

Let’s c here… I play Engineer… Experimental Puff and Purple Fleck..

Puff is hgh nade… But your talking about Purple Fleck!

Yes She is 3-4 kit bunker

Flamethrower is useless. (all around)
bomb kit is useless. (unless your a dps, still lame as nades do far better.)
elixir gun… has 4 useful skills+toolbelt. I run this as bunker on legacy.
tool kit… 2 skills both r amazing.
nade kit- nothing for bunking but nice dps.
med kit… always will b better than healing turret…. no matter what….

I generally run tool kit elix c and depending on map other skill and med kit.
rifle/throw nade…. Yes I can out cc a bunker guardian off point and CAP it over him. Yes I can 1v4 on legacy for a minute or more.
Engineers have highest skill cap due to number of skills when rolling 3-4 kits.
downsides…
NO CONDI REMOVAL IN KITS OMFG OMFG OMFG.
We have to run elix c…. or ANY condi build will have field day.
so… not a 4 kit build.
with other kits no stun breaker unless you count blind from flame kit… which its not.
no immobile breaker…. in kits.
so yea having all my util skills gone makes me soooooo op lemme tell ya…

O btw as a bunker they are helpful. As point roamer…. not so much. You will always run elix c or elixir traits. then generally nade kit for damage, as others stink. Then last util for grabs… but lets c I get 1 utility that I can chose? wow I feel special.

Flame thrower is far from useless, and I am talking from a tpvp point of view, not pve and not hot join. I important to know your enemy and know their reaction, that how it promote skill play. GW2 want to be an Esport but have lots of unknown skill animation, overcrowding animation, small tiny animation that no 1 can differentiate, it remind me of how kholer was once at release(so many players died from that small animation he has and still do.) added to that load of aoe animation clutter storm. That why i hate flashing and burning on kholer when we fight him, can’t see a kitten. Same for engineer, no player can react fast enough to their kit swapping and minor animation detail. So I am talking about balance, that why i am pointing this out.