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Posted by: bbennett.7463

bbennett.7463

Should of been the name for new expansion.

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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

Aggreed. “DH traps & true shot op, Druids bristleback op, thiefs op , necro corrupts & chill op, Scrapper damage & sustain op, … . " Half the classes are OP -_-.

EverythingOP

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

plus one

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE

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Posted by: Xolas.9781

Xolas.9781

Look at and play the core classes, then look at and play the elite specs.

There’s a reason the elite specs have been dominating and overshadowing the core classes, and it shows in every level of play.

HoT Powercreep exists.

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Posted by: daggerhands.9634

daggerhands.9634

Aggreed. “DH traps & true shot op, Druids bristleback op, thiefs op , necro corrupts & chill op, Scrapper damage & sustain op, … . " Half the classes are OP -_-.

Lol learn to play all classes you named are easely counterable

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Posted by: Silverkey.2078

Silverkey.2078

Aggreed. “DH traps & true shot op, Druids bristleback op, thiefs op , necro corrupts & chill op, Scrapper damage & sustain op, … . " Half the classes are OP -_-.

Lol learn to play all classes you named are easely counterable

Yes, you can counter OP classes by using other OP classes.

The reason people complain is because there has been a serious power creep with HoT. Remember the “OP” D/D elementalist pre-HoT? How could this become a weak spec post-HoT (even before celestial removal)???

I have it for you:

  • Tempest is probably fine now (which means dead in the OP meta)
  • chrono is also getting closer to balance, but continuum shift is still too strong
  • reaper has OP condi damage
  • daredevil has OP damage
  • Druid has OP pet burst and too much (long) CC
  • Scrapper has over-OP sustain
  • Berserker is not too OP
  • DH has too much CC
  • Rev has still a bit too much sustain

so here we are: 6 out of 9 are OP. What this also means is that instead of bringing additional diversity in PvP, elite specs have just removed what was before and actually reduced diversity.

And now people want to buff the core specs to be able to reach the OP level of the elite specs… Yes, you could balance things like this, but this is a terrible idea. Power creep has made the game much less fun. You can now spend a huge amount of time stun locked or get all conditions in the game on you in less than 2s. The only proper fix is a massive nerf to most elite specs. Some people won’t be happy at first, but this will make the game much healthier.

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Posted by: Sorel.4870

Sorel.4870

Aggreed. “DH traps & true shot op, Druids bristleback op, thiefs op , necro corrupts & chill op, Scrapper damage & sustain op, … . " Half the classes are OP -_-.

Lol learn to play all classes you named are easely counterable

Yes, you can counter OP classes by using other OP classes.

The reason people complain is because there has been a serious power creep with HoT. Remember the “OP” D/D elementalist pre-HoT? How could this become a weak spec post-HoT (even before celestial removal)???

I have it for you:

  • Tempest is probably fine now (which means dead in the OP meta)
  • chrono is also getting closer to balance, but continuum shift is still too strong
  • reaper has OP condi damage
  • daredevil has OP damage
  • Druid has OP pet burst and too much (long) CC
  • Scrapper has over-OP sustain
  • Berserker is not too OP
  • DH has too much CC
  • Rev has still a bit too much sustain

so here we are: 6 out of 9 are OP. What this also means is that instead of bringing additional diversity in PvP, elite specs have just removed what was before and actually reduced diversity.

And now people want to buff the core specs to be able to reach the OP level of the elite specs… Yes, you could balance things like this, but this is a terrible idea. Power creep has made the game much less fun. You can now spend a huge amount of time stun locked or get all conditions in the game on you in less than 2s. The only proper fix is a massive nerf to most elite specs. Some people won’t be happy at first, but this will make the game much healthier.

I couldn’t agree more. Maybe it’s because I’m multiclassing, but I’m under the impression that I see too much “my class is bad, the others are OP threads” on these forums, while the only real issue is the power creep. What the game needs now is a big nerf to the elite specs. Some of them are really fun in design, but Anet certainly didn’t need to make them so strong.

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Posted by: bbennett.7463

bbennett.7463

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

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Posted by: bbennett.7463

bbennett.7463

How I imagine every person who posts on the pvp forums
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf3JtTV6PUg

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Posted by: daggerhands.9634

daggerhands.9634

Aggreed. “DH traps & true shot op, Druids bristleback op, thiefs op , necro corrupts & chill op, Scrapper damage & sustain op, … . " Half the classes are OP -_-.

Lol learn to play all classes you named are easely counterable

Yes, you can counter OP classes by using other OP classes.

The reason people complain is because there has been a serious power creep with HoT. Remember the “OP” D/D elementalist pre-HoT? How could this become a weak spec post-HoT (even before celestial removal)???

I have it for you:

  • Tempest is probably fine now (which means dead in the OP meta)
  • chrono is also getting closer to balance, but continuum shift is still too strong
  • reaper has OP condi damage
  • daredevil has OP damage
  • Druid has OP pet burst and too much (long) CC
  • Scrapper has over-OP sustain
  • Berserker is not too OP
  • DH has too much CC
  • Rev has still a bit too much sustain

so here we are: 6 out of 9 are OP. What this also means is that instead of bringing additional diversity in PvP, elite specs have just removed what was before and actually reduced diversity.

And now people want to buff the core specs to be able to reach the OP level of the elite specs… Yes, you could balance things like this, but this is a terrible idea. Power creep has made the game much less fun. You can now spend a huge amount of time stun locked or get all conditions in the game on you in less than 2s. The only proper fix is a massive nerf to most elite specs. Some people won’t be happy at first, but this will make the game much healthier.

Tempest got arguably nerfed slightly too hard(meh)
Chrono you dont even see in pvp anymore(meh)
Reaper get counterered hard by condi cleanses (learn to focus target and cleanse)
You are just mad at daredevils ganking you all day(btw a good player should never lose vs a thief in a 1v1 due to the fact they have allmost no survivability)
Druid only has a few cc’s and has to sacrifice dmg to get them longer and can be beaten 2v1 easely(closest we have to a tank atm so that fits and learn to focus his pet and either learn his tells or get some stab)
Same for scrapper though most of his survivability comes from core lines
Berserker meh they are basicly medi guards without the teleport but with a cc chain (stunbreak and dodge their dmg rotation then /laugh as they run(if they are smart) or watch them die fairly quick to any decent player)
DH they are pretty easy to beat just range them and use stab+ block to trigger their traps to then dodge out of them
And revs honestly unless they are +1 ing are quite a joke

So basicly learn how to do basic stuff like condi clear, dodge/ use stab on big tells its a learn to play issue not a specialisations are OP/p2w issue

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Posted by: Leohart.4610

Leohart.4610

How I imagine every person who posts on the pvp forums
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf3JtTV6PUg

I can confirm that is me. :^)

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Posted by: Silverkey.2078

Silverkey.2078

Lol learn to play all classes you named are easely counterable

Yes, you can counter OP classes by using other OP classes.

The reason people complain is because there has been a serious power creep with HoT. Remember the “OP” D/D elementalist pre-HoT? How could this become a weak spec post-HoT (even before celestial removal)???

I have it for you:

  • Tempest is probably fine now (which means dead in the OP meta)
  • chrono is also getting closer to balance, but continuum shift is still too strong
  • reaper has OP condi damage
  • daredevil has OP damage
  • Druid has OP pet burst and too much (long) CC
  • Scrapper has over-OP sustain
  • Berserker is not too OP
  • DH has too much CC
  • Rev has still a bit too much sustain

so here we are: 6 out of 9 are OP. What this also means is that instead of bringing additional diversity in PvP, elite specs have just removed what was before and actually reduced diversity.

And now people want to buff the core specs to be able to reach the OP level of the elite specs… Yes, you could balance things like this, but this is a terrible idea. Power creep has made the game much less fun. You can now spend a huge amount of time stun locked or get all conditions in the game on you in less than 2s. The only proper fix is a massive nerf to most elite specs. Some people won’t be happy at first, but this will make the game much healthier.

Tempest got arguably nerfed slightly too hard(meh)
Chrono you dont even see in pvp anymore(meh)
Reaper get counterered hard by condi cleanses (learn to focus target and cleanse)
You are just mad at daredevils ganking you all day(btw a good player should never lose vs a thief in a 1v1 due to the fact they have allmost no survivability)
Druid only has a few cc’s and has to sacrifice dmg to get them longer and can be beaten 2v1 easely(closest we have to a tank atm so that fits and learn to focus his pet and either learn his tells or get some stab)
Same for scrapper though most of his survivability comes from core lines
Berserker meh they are basicly medi guards without the teleport but with a cc chain (stunbreak and dodge their dmg rotation then /laugh as they run(if they are smart) or watch them die fairly quick to any decent player)
DH they are pretty easy to beat just range them and use stab+ block to trigger their traps to then dodge out of them
And revs honestly unless they are +1 ing are quite a joke

So basicly learn how to do basic stuff like condi clear, dodge/ use stab on big tells its a learn to play issue not a specialisations are OP/p2w issue

So should I ask pro leagues players to l2p because they don’t play core specs anymore? They play the most efficient, and weirdly enough, you rarely see non-elite specs.

The expansion patch did not nerf anything. I mostly brought new specs. If those new specs were balanced, you would have seen a healthy mix of old and new. Sure, maybe a core spec gets a new counter, so it fades a bit. But another core build counters a new one, so it appears while it was not overly popular before. Instead what we saw is that very early on, the core specs disappeared. Sure, you could play some and still outplay a player with an elite spec, but overall, an equal skill team would have a significantly higher chance of winning with the new specs.

Don’t get me wrong, I have my OP elite spec and I’m doing very fine in PvP. No l2p issue here. But that does not mean I can’t see that there have been a strong power creep, and if you can’t see it, maybe you are the one who should learn to PvP…

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Posted by: daggerhands.9634

daggerhands.9634

No they play the most efficient build for their group comp/strat there is a difference and i wasn’t saying HOT players/ f2p players should l2p i am saying people that are complaining about for instance: necro does too much condi plz nerf condi, should learn to clear. People running in 1v1 vs a ranger but keep the pet alive ah that pets hurts cus i am too kittened to kill it, should learn how to focus a target. Etc etc fact is most people complaining about imbalance on this forum have a real learn to play issue/ unwillingness to change their builds just stop crying and actually try to get better instead of having devs dumb the game down even more

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Posted by: Agemnon.4608

Agemnon.4608

Losing itself is no big but it’s the process. Seeing your teammates rushing mid to receive the big hurt as if it’s the big new thing instead of trying to win (winning never goes out of style) makes you look bad. Then you got the bailers.

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Posted by: Deified.7520

Deified.7520

Something I’ve noticed over the past 3+ years with playing is that with each new balance patch builds also strive to fill every combat role to the greatest degree. So they’re looking to be able to CC, deal damage, and have survivability to the greatest degree. Its no surprise with a no holy trinity game design. I always felt that with each major meta change, those 3 things increased in frequency.

HoT was tipping point for this.

You took those three concepts and increased them dramatically in each class. Now you have this meta where playing anything other the new elite specs is VERY frustrating. Lets take a look at two classes.

Guardian. Something I noticed with dragonhunter is they got a huge increased in burst damage. Now meditation guard pre HoT was already pretty high damage output, but it was also mainly melee. The bunker specs or heavy on the survivability side specs also paid the price of damage. So one of the downfalls of playing the guard was that being ranged was one of your weakeness and dealing with it through blocks/teleports/etc was something to perfect. With Dragonhunter you basically gave them a huge amount of ranged DPS and didn’t ask for anything in return. Guardians was one of the best survivability classes (especially boon and direct heal wise) pre-Hot. You went in and increased their DPS substantially while asking very little in return.

Necromancer. Necromancer was one of the easiest classes to counter. Mainly because they liked mobility and CC protection. So focusing on them first was done often. With HoT you gave them mobility, CC protection, more CC, more conditions, and finally more life force regen. So now you have reapers who are dealing immense amount of damage, can easily protect themselves from CC, and can output an insane amount of CC.

My point is, there seems to have been a trend with HoT was you took a classes weaknesses and attempted to put in an elite spec that addressed those weakness. However, the price you pay for such an elite spec is so little that all the classes just lost their main weakness. I think that’s why you see so many people talking about how every class is overpowered now. Its because you took the downfall of every class and pretty much heavily reduced its presence or straight up got ride of it. Attempting to do anything other than these elite specs is hugely punishing because you’re just getting pummeled. I mean after playing these matches it seems like the game has fallen more and more into “spam”. I’m just getting spammed with conditions, CC, burst, everything; constantly through a battle. Especially if its against 2v2 or higher. You see peoples boon bars and they constantly have boons.

There seems to be a frequency creep with balancing of everything.

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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

Aggreed. “DH traps & true shot op, Druids bristleback op, thiefs op , necro corrupts & chill op, Scrapper damage & sustain op, … . " Half the classes are OP -_-.

Lol learn to play all classes you named are easely counterable

Clrµearly you didn’t understand my meaning here, I wasn’t complaining about the classes. I was complaining about the players here or at least a lot of forum posters.

EverythingOP

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Posted by: Shovel Face.4512

Shovel Face.4512

Aggreed. “DH traps & true shot op, Druids bristleback op, thiefs op , necro corrupts & chill op, Scrapper damage & sustain op, … . " Half the classes are OP -_-.

Lol learn to play all classes you named are easely counterable

Yes, you can counter OP classes by using other OP classes.

The reason people complain is because there has been a serious power creep with HoT. Remember the “OP” D/D elementalist pre-HoT? How could this become a weak spec post-HoT (even before celestial removal)???

I have it for you:

  • Tempest is probably fine now (which means dead in the OP meta)
  • chrono is also getting closer to balance, but continuum shift is still too strong
  • reaper has OP condi damage
  • daredevil has OP damage
  • Druid has OP pet burst and too much (long) CC
  • Scrapper has over-OP sustain
  • Berserker is not too OP
  • DH has too much CC
  • Rev has still a bit too much sustain

so here we are: 6 out of 9 are OP. What this also means is that instead of bringing additional diversity in PvP, elite specs have just removed what was before and actually reduced diversity.

And now people want to buff the core specs to be able to reach the OP level of the elite specs… Yes, you could balance things like this, but this is a terrible idea. Power creep has made the game much less fun. You can now spend a huge amount of time stun locked or get all conditions in the game on you in less than 2s. The only proper fix is a massive nerf to most elite specs. Some people won’t be happy at first, but this will make the game much healthier.

Tempest got arguably nerfed slightly too hard(meh)
Chrono you dont even see in pvp anymore(meh)
Reaper get counterered hard by condi cleanses (learn to focus target and cleanse)
You are just mad at daredevils ganking you all day(btw a good player should never lose vs a thief in a 1v1 due to the fact they have allmost no survivability)
Druid only has a few cc’s and has to sacrifice dmg to get them longer and can be beaten 2v1 easely(closest we have to a tank atm so that fits and learn to focus his pet and either learn his tells or get some stab)
Same for scrapper though most of his survivability comes from core lines
Berserker meh they are basicly medi guards without the teleport but with a cc chain (stunbreak and dodge their dmg rotation then /laugh as they run(if they are smart) or watch them die fairly quick to any decent player)
DH they are pretty easy to beat just range them and use stab+ block to trigger their traps to then dodge out of them
And revs honestly unless they are +1 ing are quite a joke

So basicly learn how to do basic stuff like condi clear, dodge/ use stab on big tells its a learn to play issue not a specialisations are OP/p2w issue

I’m sorry but that’s false. Any GOOD daredevil, you will not kill because either they’ll kill you or disengage. Don’t believe me? How about you 1v1 me. Second, the classes you should not be losing to in 1v1s are Warriors and Tempest. Tempest is squishy as hell and can’t disengage and Warrior is warrior.

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Posted by: Lexander.4579

Lexander.4579

looks like this thread has also been claimed for QQ Wars

Alex Shadowdagger – Thief – Blacktide

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Posted by: Silverthorn.8576

Silverthorn.8576

Necromancer. Necromancer was one of the easiest classes to counter. Mainly because they liked mobility and CC protection. So focusing on them first was done often. With HoT you gave them mobility, CC protection, more CC, more conditions, and finally more life force regen.

HoT give mobility to necro? Sorry i did not get the memo… Necro is still the first guy focus in teamfight because reaper do not bring the evade/block/immune skills to counter hard focus or the mobility to escape it. The only players crying about necromancer are the ones who leaves them freecast and so deserves to die to condi.

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Posted by: Rezzet.3614

Rezzet.3614

Necromancer. Necromancer was one of the easiest classes to counter. Mainly because they liked mobility and CC protection. So focusing on them first was done often. With HoT you gave them mobility, CC protection, more CC, more conditions, and finally more life force regen.

HoT give mobility to necro? Sorry i did not get the memo… Necro is still the first guy focus in teamfight because reaper do not bring the evade/block/immune skills to counter hard focus or the mobility to escape it. The only players crying about necromancer are the ones who leaves them freecast and so deserves to die to condi.

shroud+50% slower repletion trait = your invuln
as for mobility theres a trait that grants 33% reduction on cc and 66% reduction on shroud and its an Adept trait
Reaper form #3 = pulsing stability
so pretty much almost immune to all cc there is as well as damage unless hard focused by 3 players
as far as movement speed theres many choices
Runes,Sigils,Signet,Dagger trait,Shroud Trait and more

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Posted by: Silverthorn.8576

Silverthorn.8576

ok you don’t know what you are talking about, thx.

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Posted by: Deified.7520

Deified.7520

ok you don’t know what you are talking about, thx.

Yes, they not the most mobile in the game. However, they did get mobility. More then I think they need in my opinion. I remember they removed vanilla DS teleport because it was too much mobility. A evading leap is practically the same thing.

I think they should get rid of the evading factor, but add in stability. Like you use it and you get 2 stacks of stability.

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Posted by: Silverkey.2078

Silverkey.2078

ok you don’t know what you are talking about, thx.

Yes, they not the most mobile in the game. However, they did get mobility. More then I think they need in my opinion. I remember they removed vanilla DS teleport because it was too much mobility. A evading leap is practically the same thing.

I think they should get rid of the evading factor, but add in stability. Like you use it and you get 2 stacks of stability.

The skill does not evade…. it only blinds and I believe destroys projectiles (at least it was supposed to). So yes… you don’t know what you are talking about.

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

shroud+50% slower repletion trait = your invuln
as for mobility theres a trait that grants 33% reduction on cc and 66% reduction on shroud and its an Adept trait
Reaper form #3 = pulsing stability
so pretty much almost immune to all cc there is as well as damage unless hard focused by 3 players
as far as movement speed theres many choices
Runes,Sigils,Signet,Dagger trait,Shroud Trait and more

Shroud is a health pool, not a invuln. Invuln implies damage negation. You can burn straight through shroud just like any other HP pool.

The reduction trait is if I recall correctly, only affects immobs, chill, and cripple, not cc in general.

Also some of the more cc heavy classes can push cc through reaper #3, and for the record reaper #3 doesn’t actually last all that long. It only pulses 1 stack at a time.

No common necro builds use daggers. The signet passive is laughable especially once you consider that most classes have access to 25% movement speed passives, on top of other mobility options. The shroud trait is rarely used.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube

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Posted by: Rezzet.3614

Rezzet.3614

shroud+50% slower repletion trait = your invuln
as for mobility theres a trait that grants 33% reduction on cc and 66% reduction on shroud and its an Adept trait
Reaper form #3 = pulsing stability
so pretty much almost immune to all cc there is as well as damage unless hard focused by 3 players
as far as movement speed theres many choices
Runes,Sigils,Signet,Dagger trait,Shroud Trait and more

Shroud is a health pool, not a invuln. Invuln implies damage negation. You can burn straight through shroud just like any other HP pool.

The reduction trait is if I recall correctly, only affects immobs, chill, and cripple, not cc in general.

Also some of the more cc heavy classes can push cc through reaper #3, and for the record reaper #3 doesn’t actually last all that long. It only pulses 1 stack at a time.

No common necro builds use daggers. The signet passive is laughable especially once you consider that most classes have access to 25% movement speed passives, on top of other mobility options. The shroud trait is rarely used.

use scavenger or traveler runes then

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Posted by: bbennett.7463

bbennett.7463

Thank you guys for making the title relevant