Guild Wars 2

the last patch removed the short invul when downed. during the last season necro was downed the most because it simply cannot defend himself and can barely be supportet other than having a permanent rezzbot around. whithout the invul those rezzes will be a lot harder to pull of so necro will probably fall out of meta (my opinion..). and that mainly because of bad design.

so how about allowing necro to be healed while in shroud?

thats because especially tempest and druid aoe healing is a pretty big factor in teamfights and every class benefits from it while using its defensives but not necro..

and I know its a necro topic and it was discussed lots of times in necro forms but I kinda wanna know what the rest of the community thinks

I only think this would be good if healing healed the death shroud itself and not the health outside of it. Doing that would make it way too easy for necros to just go down to low health, use shroud and get back to 100% thanks to a Druid/ele. It would also take some skill away from support classes because they would not have to time their heals correctly. Allowing it to increase the HP of death shroud itself is a great idea though.

If anything heals Like Well of Blood ticks, and Sig of Vamp’s on hit heal, and Blood Fiend’s attacks should heal through shroud, even if it’s at 50% effectiveness

Warcry.1596:

If anything heals Like Well of Blood ticks, and Sig of Vamp’s on hit heal, and Blood Fiend’s attacks should heal through shroud, even if it’s at 50% effectiveness

I would argue that regeneration should also work in shroud. By the way the debuff of SoV works though shroud (though the bloodbond trait doesnt).

Muchacho.2390:

Warcry.1596:

If anything heals Like Well of Blood ticks, and Sig of Vamp’s on hit heal, and Blood Fiend’s attacks should heal through shroud, even if it’s at 50% effectiveness

I would argue that regeneration should also work in shroud. By the way the debuff of SoV works though shroud (though the bloodbond trait doesnt).

well I think the fact that some self applied heals dont even heal necro is rediculous..

I was talking about every incoming heal to necro. whithout that I dont see necro being viable in future..

I would like to see Necros be able to heal in Shroud, as long as it’s only either Necro’s heals or at a reduced healing percentage from allies. Think about it this way. If a Necro is in Shroud and almost 0% hp, they could be healed back from their allies to full easily. There are plenty of powerful enough healing skills to bring them back to full hp with enough coordination and a long enough Shroud. This would make Necros nearly immortal. And with their crazy high condition pressure, they can’t be given more survivability without sacrificing damage.

In my opinion, I think allowing 50% of outside-healing to heal through shroud would be a good compromise.

Zintrothen.1056:

I would like to see Necros be able to heal in Shroud, as long as it’s only either Necro’s heals or at a reduced healing percentage from allies. Think about it this way. If a Necro is in Shroud and almost 0% hp, they could be healed back from their allies to full easily. There are plenty of powerful enough healing skills to bring them back to full hp with enough coordination and a long enough Shroud. This would make Necros nearly immortal. And with their crazy high condition pressure, they can’t be given more survivability without sacrificing damage.

yes this is a good concern.. I dont argue this will be the case and even of necro is my main I dont want it to be immortal. this would ruin the game.

some ideas from the necro forums to this problem were:

- healing to necro is cut in half while in shroud

-50% healing to necro is added to healthbar and 50% to lifeforce hp while in shroud

- healing to necro while in shroud will add healthpoints to Lifeforce bar (but this would allow permashroud builds in pve)

- the healing to necro while in shroud is stored and will be fully applied after he leaves shroud during 10s, 1 pulse per second

I am against proposed change. Reaper is already pretty hard to kill if they have pocket healer in form of druid, engi (for rezzes) or ele (and necro is my most played character after thief btw). Yes, necros don’t deal well with focus fire and they are not as mobile but every class has to have some kind of weakness. Remember s2 when it was pita to kill necros? We don’t need that again. Last thing this game needs is more powercreep.

If necros start to heal in shroud it can be abused so much no matter in which form you implement it. If you want heals in shroud then say good bye to high HP pool and embrace the 11k club.

Zintrothen.1056:

I would like to see Necros be able to heal in Shroud, as long as it’s only either Necro’s heals or at a reduced healing percentage from allies. Think about it this way. If a Necro is in Shroud and almost 0% hp, they could be healed back from their allies to full easily. There are plenty of powerful enough healing skills to bring them back to full hp with enough coordination and a long enough Shroud. This would make Necros nearly immortal. And with their crazy high condition pressure, they can’t be given more survivability without sacrificing damage.

Heals that the necro applies to themselves should work (maybe at a 50% rate), and any effect from runes should work (like lifesteal), but perhaps those effects should heal the life force instead of their HP. But yes I do agree that some form of healing should be allowed while they are in shroud

I guess people really want 6-8 necros per match. Okkkkkkk.

Shadowstep.6049:

I am against proposed change. Reaper is already pretty hard to kill if they have pocket healer in form of druid, engi (for rezzes) or ele (and necro is my most played character after thief btw). Yes, necros don’t deal well with focus fire and they are not as mobile but every class has to have some kind of weakness. Remember s2 when it was pita to kill necros? We don’t need that again. Last thing this game needs is more powercreep.

If necros start to heal in shroud it can be abused so much no matter in which form you implement it. If you want heals in shroud then say good bye to high HP pool and embrace the 11k club.

almost every build will be hard to kill if it has a pocket healer around.. maybe exept for thief builds but this class has other advantages

I agree allowing full heal for necro in shroud will require balancing. maybe reducing overall lifeforce gain to reduce shroud uptime but I think necro comminity would trade this any day any time..

Necro survivability should be improved by itself, not by allowing other classes to heal better.

Just give us strong blind access and stop trying to completely redesign the class from the ground up.

More blinds would fill our defensive holes without breaking the themematics of the class.

Agree on using blinds to prop up necro defenses. Allowing healing through shroud just sounds like a balance headache waiting to happen.

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

Shadowstep.6049:

I am against proposed change. Reaper is already pretty hard to kill if they have pocket healer in form of druid, engi (for rezzes) or ele (and necro is my most played character after thief btw). Yes, necros don’t deal well with focus fire and they are not as mobile but every class has to have some kind of weakness. Remember s2 when it was pita to kill necros? We don’t need that again. Last thing this game needs is more powercreep.

If necros start to heal in shroud it can be abused so much no matter in which form you implement it. If you want heals in shroud then say good bye to high HP pool and embrace the 11k club.

almost every build will be hard to kill if it has a pocket healer around.. maybe exept for thief builds but this class has other advantages

I agree allowing full heal for necro in shroud will require balancing. maybe reducing overall lifeforce gain to reduce shroud uptime but I think necro comminity would trade this any day any time..

Except reaper with pocket healer can murder whole team pretty quickly, the aoe pressure is just insane if you let necro do his thing. Me on necro and some druid were farming enemy team at their far almost all match. The druid could keep me alive long enough for all my aoe and condis to kill everything that dared to come to far, no matter how outnumbered we were. I shudder to think how broken necro would be if they could heal in shroud.

Better suggestion: People (both the necros and teammates) learn to make use of Blighter`s Boons to its fullest potential + Things such as Beyond the Veil, Life from Death, Unholy Sanctuary should be tweaked to actually be meaningful.

Then, if one wants to address the problems of certain trait lines offering too much or too little, start by solving the big discrepancies in Life Force gain + uptime when it comes to: taking/not taking Soul Reaping, taking/not taking Spectral skills, taking/not taking Spite + Reaper boon synergies.

Shadowstep.6049:

Except reaper with pocket healer can murder whole team pretty quickly, the aoe pressure is just insane if you let necro do his thing. Me on necro and some druid were farming enemy team at their far almost all match. The druid could keep me alive long enough for all my aoe and condis to kill everything that dared to come to far, no matter how outnumbered we were. I shudder to think how broken necro would be if they could heal in shroud.

to your example.. hotjoin I guess? pre chill nerf probably

necro condi firepower took a 30% nerf by removing chill damage. but that was a necessary nerf dont wanna argue that one.

besides that there are other classes having potential superior aoe firehouse options than necro. but they are better at serving other roles (ele for example..) than dps. look at pve dps ranking you wont belive how bad nec damage actually is.. with the druid support I bet you could have done that far farming on staff ele/fresh air tempest too just to give you 2 examples.. or meta revenant if you wanna have a viable meta build as an example..
necro only has the dps role because it cant do kitten against focus fire. because of bad design. it cannot play bunker/bruiser because it doesnt support well and still dies to easy outside of 1v1. nec only can do dps-debuffer. and now not anymore..

Om Im.7863:

Better suggestion: People (both the necros and teammates) learn to make use of Blighter`s Boons to its fullest potential + Things such as Beyond the Veil, Life from Death, Unholy Sanctuary should be tweaked to actually be meaningful.

Then, if one wants to address the problems of certain trait lines offering too much or too little, start by solving the big discrepancies in Life Force gain + uptime when it comes to: taking/not taking Soul Reaping, taking/not taking Spectral skills, taking/not taking Spite + Reaper boon synergies.

second idea is good necro could definitely use that..

but how can teammates make use of blighters boon if I may ask? its a pure selfish trait which triggers when nec applies a boon to himself..

and by the way bligters boon is more of a bruiser trait. soldier power reaper used it before they removed that amulet. but still necro cant play bruiser by design because it dies to easily in teamfights because it cannot be supportet when needed..

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

Shadowstep.6049:

Except reaper with pocket healer can murder whole team pretty quickly, the aoe pressure is just insane if you let necro do his thing. Me on necro and some druid were farming enemy team at their far almost all match. The druid could keep me alive long enough for all my aoe and condis to kill everything that dared to come to far, no matter how outnumbered we were. I shudder to think how broken necro would be if they could heal in shroud.

to your example.. hotjoin I guess? pre chill nerf probably

necro condi firepower took a 30% nerf by removing chill damage. but that was a necessary nerf dont wanna argue that one.

besides that there are other classes having potential superior aoe firehouse options than necro. but they are better at serving other roles (ele for example..) than dps. look at pve dps ranking you wont belive how bad nec damage actually is.. with the druid support I bet you could have done that far farming on staff ele/fresh air tempest too just to give you 2 examples.. or meta revenant if you wanna have a viable meta build as an example..
necro only has the dps role because it cant do kitten against focus fire. because of bad design. it cannot play bunker/bruiser because it doesnt support well and still dies to easy outside of 1v1. nec only can do dps-debuffer. and now not anymore..

No, actually legend division, this season, thank you very much. I haven’t touched HJs in years.

I don’t think i could have done that far farming on ele simply due to ele having low HP – you can actually instagib them where as necro you still get a second or two before you go down. You also can go in shroud where ele can’t. Dps ele also can’t deal with condis as well.

Thing with meta rev, it is mostly single target, where as necro you can pressure whole point which allowed us to fight multiple enemies on first place. Revs are also weak against condis, a lot of people run condi builds nowadays, as necro i can actually just xfer all that cancer back at enemy.

Welcome to role concept. Eles can’t play anything but support atm, same with druids basically. Thieves are there to decap empty points. Necros are team fight dps. You think in other games it is any different? Take LoL for example, you have to have support to babysit main dps for half of them game until they get fed otherwise they would spend whole game at spawn. If necros had too much sustain they would be warriors with insane AoE pressure – how about no. Each class has a weakness for reason, without it we would just have 8 necros per match like in s2. Be happy you have a role, especially considering necros are part of ESL/pro league comps, thieves and wars didn’t have any at all in s1-s2.

If you think necros should be buffed, how about we give eles and thieves 28k HP, or gives revs condi xfer on AA and see how you like it.

Om Im.7863:

Better suggestion: People ([…]teammates) learn to make use of Blighter`s Boons to its fullest potential

Oh ok.

Shadowstep.6049:

Welcome to role concept. Eles can’t play anything but support atm, same with druids basically. Thieves are there to decap empty points. Necros are team fight dps. You think in other games it is any different? Take LoL for example, you have to have support to babysit main dps for half of them game until they get fed otherwise they would spend whole game at spawn. If necros had too much sustain they would be warriors with insane AoE pressure – how about no. Each class has a weakness for reason, without it we would just have 8 necros per match like in s2.

If you think necros should be buffed, how about we give eles and thieves 28k HP, or gives revs condi xfer on AA and see how you like it.

yes and exactly this role concept should be gone. how about bringing back build diversity? I know other classes have their roles aswell bc of bad design and I’d accept any buff to them which would change that.. okay give rev condi clear, buff staff ele and increase their HP if necessary..

but this one here is about nec and not being able to be healed while in shroud severely limits the class build diversity alongside with some other cons like bad weapons and slow skills but thats a whole other topic

I dont argue nec would need some nerfs if this one comes through, maybe 15k health pool, less aoe damage but at least one class limitation would be removed..

See, you agree to it, but i highly doubt other necro players would like it. People don’t like when things change drastically. Look at recent patch – there weren’t really MAJOR changes but cries are insane and effect sometimes is bigger than you would think, especially in pve.

As far as role concept go, it was actually fine, the reason why we ended up with less build diversity IS because people wanted to have everything from every class – so Anet did it, they introduced homogenization. Scrappers got stealth, druids got support spec with high mobility, revs have everything but stealth basically etc. which resulted in players being forced to run elite specs – diversity dead.

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

Om Im.7863:

Better suggestion: People (both the necros and teammates) learn to make use of Blighter`s Boons to its fullest potential + Things such as Beyond the Veil, Life from Death, Unholy Sanctuary should be tweaked to actually be meaningful.

Then, if one wants to address the problems of certain trait lines offering too much or too little, start by solving the big discrepancies in Life Force gain + uptime when it comes to: taking/not taking Soul Reaping, taking/not taking Spectral skills, taking/not taking Spite + Reaper boon synergies.

second idea is good necro could definitely use that..

but how can teammates make use of blighters boon if I may ask? its a pure selfish trait which triggers when nec applies a boon to himself..

and by the way bligters boon is more of a bruiser trait. soldier power reaper used it before they removed that amulet. but still necro cant play bruiser by design because it dies to easily in teamfights because it cannot be supportet when needed..

kitten early mornings, forgot that Blighter`s Boon synergy with incoming boons was nerfed a while back. I didn`t trust the current tooltip; so in the meantime, I tried to test tricking it with condi conversion from allies, still doesn`t work. So that part of my statement remains only for necros maximising Blighter`s Boon potential on themselves with sigils, runes, AoE attacks.

The trait is very powerful when you are on your own if you build correctly for boon spam and fight accordingly. Personally I would like Blighter`s Boon mechanic to have a bit more depth, where allies can interact with it without being over the top, while the self benefit from it remains as a “stronger when hitting multiple foes” design (like shouts). It is difficult to achieve this within the random boon spam&share from everywhere mechanics that HOT has brought.

Now there is paladin amulet, which is arguably better for a bruiser than soldier ever was. Soldier was more of a tank amulet then a bruiser, unless you were “brusing” bad thieves. Now I suggest trying all of the above if you think necros still dies too easily in a teamfight (assuming that the teamfight was approached with proper positioning and rotations).

Up until now, necros were forced into condition builds because HOT brought a lot of potent anti-power mechanics; these have been continuously toned down since. The main condition line for necros, Corruption, does not make great synergy with any of the sustain mechanics on necro – it is just offence and some mitigation, and forces Deathly Chill as a GM in Reaper line. Of course there is Corrupter`s Fervour, but power builds can use it just as well; of course there are Spectral skills, Soul Reaping line and Blood Magic line – but power builds can use these just as well, while, on top, making room for Spite synergy with boon-related Reaper traits. The most recent (ESL) necro signet meta was intended for high amount of condis and corruptions delivered in coordinated bursts, with Blood Magic line being used primarily for plays around rezzing (Last Rites, Well of Corruption) — sustain was never the intention with this build. Las patch introduced corruption options for power specs that can compete with what that (ESL) meta on condi specs.

Shadowstep.6049:

See, you agree to it, but i highly doubt other necro players would like it. People don’t like when things change drastically. Look at recent patch – there weren’t really MAJOR changes but cries are insane and effect sometimes is bigger than you would think, especially in pve.

As far as role concept go, it was actually fine, the reason why we ended up with less build diversity IS because people wanted to have everything from every class – so Anet did it, they introduced homogenization. Scrappers got stealth, druids got support spec with high mobility, revs have everything but stealth basically etc. which resulted in players being forced to run elite specs – diversity dead.

depending on how the healing would be applied it would allow permashroud builds in pve as if it wasnt already possible now..

it would have an impact on pvp and wwe because necro could actually survive better in teamfights.. and i doubt the impact would be too big especially not in pvp since under focus fire a full shroud bar lasts for only for about 5s..

i agree a big change like this will need balancing yes. never said anything else. Im just making a point that for the sake of build diversity radical changes need to take place.. and healing in shroud would be a good thing to start with. the timing couldnt be better

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

Shadowstep.6049:

See, you agree to it, but i highly doubt other necro players would like it. People don’t like when things change drastically. Look at recent patch – there weren’t really MAJOR changes but cries are insane and effect sometimes is bigger than you would think, especially in pve.

As far as role concept go, it was actually fine, the reason why we ended up with less build diversity IS because people wanted to have everything from every class – so Anet did it, they introduced homogenization. Scrappers got stealth, druids got support spec with high mobility, revs have everything but stealth basically etc. which resulted in players being forced to run elite specs – diversity dead.

depending on how the healing would be applied it would allow permashroud builds in pve as if it wasnt already possible now..

it would have an impact on pvp and wwe because necro could actually survive better in teamfights.. and i doubt the impact would be too big especially not in pvp since under focus fire a full shroud bar lasts for only for about 5s..

i agree a big change like this will need balancing yes. never said anything else. Im just making a point that for the sake of build diversity radical changes need to take place.. and healing in shroud would be a good thing to start with. the timing couldnt be better

My point – do you really think other necros would be willing to give up certain things (e.g. HP pool, dmg, etc.) for heals in shroud? I really doubt it. Don’t underestimate the masses. Yes, forum population are loud but they are tiny part of the population, most people are actually quite happy with game or just don’t care that is why they don’t bother going to forums on first place. Majority don’t like big changes – it would cause mass protests, it had happened in the past.

We need better defences, not get healed from others.
Anyway, we’re asking for that QoL improvement since years and all the things ANet gave us is Vampiric traits that finally heal through shroud and Blighter’s Boon.

To save the necromancer to be for another 4 years the first target of the fight simply why there’s nothing they can do to save themselves more than 2 dodges and build much LF as possible (the reason because we’re still struck with that kitten Staff and the Soul Reaping traitline), we don’t need to be healed by others while in shroud, we need to be able to defend ourselves with some defensive skills.

Blind can be a start but that’s not enough at all. Blind can be good but to inflict it you need to hit the enemy and there’s still Resistance that make it totally useless. Block is much more better, but we’ll never obtain a similar good way to protect ourselves. “The Necromancer have 2 Hp bar” is the reason after our total lack of any real defensive skill.

External healing in shroud should never at any point happen. It would be a balance nightmare.

If healing through shroud becomes a thing, people are just going to stack LF regen and make near-permashroud builds that will be effectively invincible in any situation where supports are involved.

The actual builds in common ranked matches are “perma shroud” builds, but no one can stay so long in shroud to make an externa heal be OP. not in sPvP (expecially in team fights).
That can be a bigger “problem” in raid, fractal or dungeon, but not in pvp where an enemy can strip you out of shroud in few seconds.

Anyway a similar fix would grant us even bigger sorvavibility problems via various probable nerfs to “balance” the thing.

Honestly i would already be happy if only all the healing from the necro himself would work in shroud. Also traits like parasitic contagion and the healing pulses from well of blood and of course the regeneration boon.

Also if we are talking about healing in shroud can get unholy sanctuary a basehealing buff? (coupled with a soul comprehension rework, deathmagic could finally be useful).

Deathmagic needs a whole revamp, no one even uses that unless your a minionmancer, but that’s handicapping yourself

Jskiirawr.2473:

Deathmagic needs a whole revamp, no one even uses that unless your a minionmancer, but that’s handicapping yourself

I dont know. The only thing that needs a revamp is soul comprehension. And if additionally unholy sanctuary had decent basehealing numbers i would seriously consider deathmagic. And with decent i mean 70% or more basehealing.

Make Vital Persistence and Foot in the Grave baseline… I think that would free up other trait-line options and would no longer make Soul Reaping mandatory.

Avigrus.2871:

Make Vital Persistence and Foot in the Grave baseline… I think that would free up other trait-line options and would no longer make Soul Reaping mandatory.

Yes please.

Foot in the Grave baseline would be quiet OP. But making Vital persistence less mandatory is a good idea.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Foot in the Grave baseline would be quiet OP. But making Vital persistence less mandatory is a good idea.

Possibly, they could always start with VP and see how it goes.

They could return the stability nerfs that were made to RS3, also add some stability to standard Deathshroud… just some ideas.

100 % need this….

every other class has access to team heals 100% uptime in any form block stance or invulm…

and for those who say OH NO necro would be invincible if that were to happen then i ask why isnt any other class which HAS access to blocks invulms and evades not invincible lol exactly

i would like to see individual survivabilty go up rather then a team buff bc that doesnt change the fact that necro is still a pinata for enemy teams to focus!

that said all in all these changes need to made due to the changes in matchmaking before i could team with friends and coordinate heals and DS with voice comms now that wont be viable and bc of that necro buffs need to happen so we have some sort of viable solo build…