Guild Wars 2

Was curious what everyone thinks about people being immune to everything while finishing a person off. Personally I find it to be one of the most frustrating aspects of pvp, and I’m not sure why it is allowed. Does anyone actually think this is a cool/unique or fair mechanic?

Quickness, stability and stealth stomps aren’t as much an issue as you can at least try to CC the person, DPS them down or strip stability/cc etc. These all allow for interaction both from the person on the ground and the person’s team mates.

I would also point out this breaks certain aspects of the game such as groups/a few people being able to negate a solo person due to the fact the solo person will likely not be able to stomp. Now when the solo individual can down someone and stomp with no fear of taking damage or being interrupted…

So why is this still allowed? I can’t think of a single more negative play experience than getting stomped by a person in mist form, assuming most people feel the same.

Sucks kitten but I like to laugh when you see ele’s who aren’t paying attention try to mist stomp my teleporting kitten
Waste of mist.
Though no as a ranger it sucks hard, brb absolutely nothing done.
However since it’s a team game, anyone invul stomping generally gets left fairly vulnerable, some more than others but eh.

Well my point is some classes aren’t left vulnerable at all since they are immune to everything while stomping, I don’t think that is okay. It is a negative play experience and allows for zero player interaction.

Dralor.3701:

Well my point is some classes aren’t left vulnerable at all since they are immune to everything while stomping, I don’t think that is okay. It is a negative play experience and allows for zero player interaction.

By vulnerable, he means the use of a cooldown. An Ele no longer has Mist Form because he used it offensively.

i think its a fair mechanic,you have to sacrifice and suffer cooldown on that ability for a stomp. Its not an exploit anyways.

If eles were running around with glass DPS builds it would be a relevant cooldown, as it stands with the bunker specs it hardly matters.

Honestly would every class not take a free stomp if they had one? Plenty of people take stability for this exact purpose except it is simply a poor man’s substitute.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

i think its a fair mechanic,you have to sacrifice and suffer cooldown on that ability for a stomp. Its not an exploit anyways.

It would be fair if everyone had access to invulnerability stomps and everyone could also equaly prevent them.

Mesmers, eles and thiefs can always prevent stomps from multiple people and invulnerability doesn’t even affect their ability to do so. Thiefs can even do it 2 times in a row. $#"%$#

Necros, for instance, on the other hand, can only interrupt one person (1!) and if that person has stability.. well kitten you necro, you’re dead.

And then there’s the ‘who has access to stability and quickness’ part. Mesmers, as long as they have one illusion out, they can always get invulnerabily (no need for specific skills). Other classes have access to invulnerabilty and stability stances aswell but they have to sacrifice an utility slot (mist form, etc)

What about necros? – you ask.
Well, Necros, on the other hand, need to invest 30 freaking points in one specific trait line if they want to taste any kind of stability whatsoever. And even then it’s a difficult to control one and that requires life force as you need to get in and out of death shroud instantly.

Awesome, hem? And we wonder why no one plays necros. (:

So yeah, there, my friends, is the definition of unbalance. And what stomping and the downed state is just a one more reason against e-sports and serious spvp.

Thieves, mesmers, eles = Awesome as kitten; Warriors, guardians, rangers = yeah, ok, whatever; Necros = the cancer of arenanet.

Putting mist form/elixir S on cd to stomp somebody will put himself in a position where he has no escapes at all. Your team can instagib him at this point.

DDog.4350:

Putting mist form/elixir S on cd to stomp somebody will put himself in a position where he has no escapes at all. Your team can instagib him at this point.

How do they have no escapes? Both of these classes are usually bunkers, but anyway this isn’t the point of my topic. Please read what I have written below.

Plenty of classes use quickness, stealth, stability etc. to stomp but those abilities can still be countered. (or the player killed)

The point is two abilities are completely immune to any sort of interruption/damage. It doesn’t make sense, it isn’t fun and it makes for extremely poor interaction/counter-plays. A player should not be allowed to stomp with one of these abilities active.

Dralor.3701:

DDog.4350:

Putting mist form/elixir S on cd to stomp somebody will put himself in a position where he has no escapes at all. Your team can instagib him at this point.

How do they have no escapes? Both of these classes are usually bunkers, but anyway this isn’t the point of my topic. Please read what I have written below.

Plenty of classes use quickness, stealth, stability etc. to stomp but those abilities can still be countered. (or the player killed)

The point is two abilities are completely immune to any sort of interruption/damage. It doesn’t make sense, it isn’t fun and it makes for extremely poor interaction/counter-plays. A player should not be allowed to stomp with one of these abilities active.

since you want to talk about team play, how about ressing? either double res or cooldown res? maybe stealth blanket? or maybe just don’t die huh?

guys nerf rally. it’s totally op. I backstab + steal gibbed this mesmer and as I’m stealth stomping him (totally balanced btw) SOMEONE RALLYS HIM! WTF? I HAVE TO KILL HIM AGAIN? I DID, BUT STILL. I HAD TO PRESS MORE BUTTONS. nerf this please

edit~ maybe you should stop playing a necro, they definitely aren’t top tier class but they are still a good class. stop comparing yourself to the gimmick fotm builds that abuse limited game diversity. necros aren’t a faceroll class for sure. but complaining about engineers? what’s next, warriors? lol

just recognize you have the most powerful boon/condition manipulation in the game topped with decent dps & decent survivability for someone who specs dps

Dralor.3701:

DDog.4350:

Putting mist form/elixir S on cd to stomp somebody will put himself in a position where he has no escapes at all. Your team can instagib him at this point.

How do they have no escapes? Both of these classes are usually bunkers, but anyway this isn’t the point of my topic. Please read what I have written below.

Plenty of classes use quickness, stealth, stability etc. to stomp but those abilities can still be countered. (or the player killed)

The point is two abilities are completely immune to any sort of interruption/damage. It doesn’t make sense, it isn’t fun and it makes for extremely poor interaction/counter-plays. A player should not be allowed to stomp with one of these abilities active.

Well, yea i do agree with you. Getting stomped by players who are invulnerable can be annoying. However i don’t think this is unbalanced at all. They are all important cooldowns you use to stomp. Imho when u are downed you should be lucky your enemies put those skills on cd. You kittenaged for so much that u lost all your health, u can’t expect to still be dangerous every single time (50% of the times u will be).

Thats how i think about it.

Larynx.2453:

By vulnerable, he means the use of a cooldown. An Ele no longer has Mist Form because he used it offensively.

Don’t they say the best defense is offense? Using offensively Mist Form to remove one player from the game gives plenty of benefits, like the fact that player won’t be here anymore for a time to pester you and damage you and CC you. It’s a very defensive result in fact.

dejay.2598:

Dralor.3701:

DDog.4350:

Putting mist form/elixir S on cd to stomp somebody will put himself in a position where he has no escapes at all. Your team can instagib him at this point.

How do they have no escapes? Both of these classes are usually bunkers, but anyway this isn’t the point of my topic. Please read what I have written below.

Plenty of classes use quickness, stealth, stability etc. to stomp but those abilities can still be countered. (or the player killed)

The point is two abilities are completely immune to any sort of interruption/damage. It doesn’t make sense, it isn’t fun and it makes for extremely poor interaction/counter-plays. A player should not be allowed to stomp with one of these abilities active.

since you want to talk about team play, how about ressing? either double res or cooldown res? maybe stealth blanket? or maybe just don’t die huh?

guys nerf rally. it’s totally op. I backstab + steal gibbed this mesmer and as I’m stealth stomping him (totally balanced btw) SOMEONE RALLYS HIM! WTF? I HAVE TO KILL HIM AGAIN? I DID, BUT STILL. I HAD TO PRESS MORE BUTTONS. nerf this please

edit~ maybe you should stop playing a necro, they definitely aren’t top tier class but they are still a good class. stop comparing yourself to the gimmick fotm builds that abuse limited game diversity. necros aren’t a faceroll class for sure. but complaining about engineers? what’s next, warriors? lol

just recognize you have the most powerful boon/condition manipulation in the game topped with decent dps & decent survivability for someone who specs dps

I’m really sorry that you have no idea what balance means.

Yeah, you’re right, the game is perfect as it is. Don’t even touch it.

AmateurGod.5403:

dejay.2598:

Dralor.3701:

DDog.4350:

Putting mist form/elixir S on cd to stomp somebody will put himself in a position where he has no escapes at all. Your team can instagib him at this point.

How do they have no escapes? Both of these classes are usually bunkers, but anyway this isn’t the point of my topic. Please read what I have written below.

Plenty of classes use quickness, stealth, stability etc. to stomp but those abilities can still be countered. (or the player killed)

The point is two abilities are completely immune to any sort of interruption/damage. It doesn’t make sense, it isn’t fun and it makes for extremely poor interaction/counter-plays. A player should not be allowed to stomp with one of these abilities active.

since you want to talk about team play, how about ressing? either double res or cooldown res? maybe stealth blanket? or maybe just don’t die huh?

guys nerf rally. it’s totally op. I backstab + steal gibbed this mesmer and as I’m stealth stomping him (totally balanced btw) SOMEONE RALLYS HIM! WTF? I HAVE TO KILL HIM AGAIN? I DID, BUT STILL. I HAD TO PRESS MORE BUTTONS. nerf this please

edit~ maybe you should stop playing a necro, they definitely aren’t top tier class but they are still a good class. stop comparing yourself to the gimmick fotm builds that abuse limited game diversity. necros aren’t a faceroll class for sure. but complaining about engineers? what’s next, warriors? lol

just recognize you have the most powerful boon/condition manipulation in the game topped with decent dps & decent survivability for someone who specs dps

I’m really sorry that you have no idea what balance means.

Yeah, you’re right, the game is perfect as it is. Don’t even touch it.

you have no real retort. balance isn’t good, but this thread is even worse.

stof.9341:

Larynx.2453:

By vulnerable, he means the use of a cooldown. An Ele no longer has Mist Form because he used it offensively.

Don’t they say the best defense is offense? Using offensively Mist Form to remove one player from the game gives plenty of benefits, like the fact that player won’t be here anymore for a time to pester you and damage you and CC you. It’s a very defensive result in fact.

Using it to stomp a “already dead player” is not allways the best choise. If your team can land some AoE around the downed player this will slow down the reviving as well as damaging the reviver, eventually killing both. Note that if somebody revives a player he can’t deal damage, and the downed played does lower damage as well, that means u make more then 1 person “useless”.

Then there are insta-resses like engi and necro but these can also happen when u mist formed.

Every week same thread…
If something has no counter, it’s op. Period.
Using mist form or any other invul stomp is not a waste of skill. You prevent rezzing this one player, it’s effective way to win.
One thing is wrong: taking some skills for battle, that are mostly used for stomping, not for regular fight. Would ele use mist form often when holding point? Not really, because of not taking point while being invul.
On the other hand I’m ok with all stability and stealth stomps.

Last thing, I separate effectivness of classes by their state. I’m looking at surviving stomps, not being able to rally but their own. It’s still pretty important thing, because if you stay longer in equall fight, your team can rez you.

in first few seconds after getting downed:
mesmer, thief, ele (downed) > every other class standing
guardian, ranger (downed) > classes with no access to invul and stability standing
necro, warrior, engi (downed) = classes with no access to invul and stability standing

Looking at access to invul, stability and quickness.
mesmer, ele, engi (standing) > guardian, ranger, necro, warrior, engi (downed) [sic!]
guardian, warrior, ranger (standing) > guardian, ranger, necro, warrior, engi
necro (standing) = guardian, ranger, necro, warrior, engi

Can you guy tell me, how this is balanced? We can argue about second and third lines, but not about first, right?

The thing is with invulnerably stomping that it can be negated with stealth. I have popped mist form before during a stomp and a thief ran up and used shadows refuge and was able to stop my stomp by making his teammate invisible.

My beef with it is that it is an unfortunate design decision, it is limited to two classes and has no player interaction. It also isn’t cool or fun for people on either end, even more reason for it to not be allowed.

Stability and quickness are fine, they allow for interaction with the other team via damage, CC, boon removal etc.

People are derailing a complaint about one mechanic into a class balance thread which this is not… I am only addressing the merits of people being able to be immune to everything while finishing a player off.

You know what I find annoying in spvp? Downed state in general. Without it the game would’ve been much better and i don’t know why anet insists and doesn’t remove it completely for spvp. No one would be complaining about stealth/invulnerability stomps if there was no downs.

Nuka Cola.8520:

You know what I find annoying in spvp? Downed state in general. Without it the game would’ve been much better and i don’t know why anet insists and doesn’t remove it completely for spvp. No one would be complaining about stealth/invulnerability stomps if there was no downs.

how do i give posts -1?

Again, think stealth/stability/quickness stomps are fine. Just not fully immune to everything stomps.

i find downed state actually makes the battle unique,you have a chance to turn the tide around upon rally. Hope downed state stays in this game

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

i find downed state actually makes the battle unique,you have a chance to turn the tide around upon rally. Hope downed state stays in this game

I also think it is interesting/different from other games, just wish this one aspect would be tweaked.

As much as I hate to ask what really like some feedback on the justification for this.

I think that is actually the “official” reply about mist form. It’s opportunity cost. The ele used up his utility slot for mist form instead of some other skill, then he used it offensively to get his stomp off on the first try, so now he has to deal with not having it for its recharge duration.

To turn the question around, why does it matter so much if he’s invulnerable? Were you alone? Did you think if you interrupted him once you would live? If you were not alone, then I can only say I hope your team was able to take him out afterwards. Eles are OP these days anyway, they are way too hard to kill.

well its interesting how you all avoid to say that the ele needs to start the stomp without mist form.You cant go invulnerable and then go stomp someone You need to start it then cast mist.. There here is your counter:(
Obviously Anet have thought about this and obviously the above fact means that they have already put a barrier on what you can do with skills like mist form.
That plus the whole opportunity cost argument..

That is a poor argument, they still have plenty of survivability and it allows them to stomp in situations where they shouldn’t be able to.

Usually there is something wrong with an ability in any game when it is an auto take, like mist form or elixer s. Both are good enough without the free stomp, granting the amazing defensive cooldown in addition to an invulnerable stomp is far too much.

you make it seem like this is counterstrike and you’ll have to wait the rest of the round out.

Sorry, I thought the goal was for pvp to be fun, balanced, and competitive.

if you have an ally nearby he can res you before stomp goes through.
if you don’t have an ally nearby, this whole discussion is pointless because you werent gonna get back up anyway even if you could stop his 1st stomp.

Taken from another thread, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g

But I mentioned this earlier, there is no counter to the immune to everything stomp, its poorly designed. Again, with other forms of stomps maybe the person could be CCed, interrupted, killed etc.

To coin the term used in the video there is no counterplay to mist form or elixer s.

i agree, there’s nothing that can be done.
again though, these skills have high recharges for a reason.
maybe they will change it at some point, but i don’t see a huge problem with the way it is now.

Well I would just assume most people could agree it isn’t okay, you don’t seem to entirely disagree yourself.

Another example, though different for various reasons etc. and not that I like to talk about WoW, but look at the paladin bubble. This used to be a mechanic that was pretty terrible all around, of course they eventually made it so you could mass dispel dispel the bubble..enter a counter and interesting gameplay.

They don’t need to gut mist form or the elixer by any means, but some form of change(s) need to be made. Again, its just one aspect I find to be super poor and extremely frustrating. It should be an easy issue for them to address.

There is a counter to immunity stomping. Stealth and teleports. Shadow refuge, blinding powder, thief and mesmer downed abilities for example.