Guild Wars 2

Wolfe.3097 : or change class forgetting thieves till a next balance/buff, because we will have a no dangerous-no hp-no armor-no usefull class after that, but every other player who don’t play thief will be happy.

Shukran.4851:

Wolfe.3097 : or change class forgetting thieves till a next balance/buff, because we will have a no dangerous-no hp-no armor-no usefull class after that, but every other player who don’t play thief will be happy.

Actually, when ANET said they were moving off the holy trinity, I thought they’d really do that.
The holy trinity was tank, healer and DPS. They indeed watered down tanks, gave heals a bit to everybody but they still kept “DPS”, in the form of thieves.

Thieves as the classic “assassin / backstab” should also have been transformed in something else.
Rogues / assassins are the annoying class everybody (but them) hate in the MMOs for how cheap they game play, if GW2 wanted to really be tradition breaking then it should have implemented different than 2 button => kill mechanics on them as well.

Wolf.4739:

Been running 8v8 spvp all weekend. Average game had 6-9 thieves out of 16 players. Is that enough meta to know something needs to be fixed?

I run a elementalist with 30 points in toughness but still get burnt down in less than a second. The record was 1 hit for 10500 damage.

You speak of meta yet your basing it off 8v8 hot-join?

30 points in toughness tells us nothing. All it tells me is you ran a minimum of 1200 toughness.

If we consider the thief that hit you for 10k might have died within 2 seconds of being focused. Should we nerf his damage so next time, within the 2 seconds he has to live, he should only do 5k?
Would that be fair?

People run rediculous builds in 8v8 hotjoin. Builds that you don’t see in 5v5 tournament.

The same thief you call nerf on, is asking for a buff verse a proper 5v5 team when he finds himself in downed state before even stepping foot on a node.

There’s more to consider than just raw numbers in pvp. And even less so in 8v8.

I’m not disagreeing with what changes may or may not need to be made.

But it’s definately not going to be based off an argument like that.

I probably shouldn’t have thrown in the 10.5k hit or whine about rediculous burst damage from invisible players because it is beside the point.

The point is – for some strange, apparently hard to work out reason everyone seems to be re-rolling to thief. Could just rename the game “Thiefwars”.

Hey Jon! I am so glad that you are taking the only viable build that eles have away from them! Good thinking. They stink at everything else besides defending in WvW so why not take them all the way down to full suck!

As an aside, I made a Guardian and I can basically slap at my keyboard and kill everything in my path! BALANCE!

chronometria.3708:

I only stick with elementalist because that character is the guild master and i do a lot of WvW. I hear a lot of comments like “i chew through mobs now” and “this is so much easier” and i know they arent coming back to their ele’s unless major changes are made.

I stick with my ele….but every time i`m in that downed state i am wishing i had a button to just kill my character instead of being so helpless. Oh yes and every time i do those wvw puzzles in the borderlands i am wondering why my class is the only one not to reduce fall damage.

I regret sticking with it most of all when someone whacks me for 14,000 damage and the best i can do to them is a fraction of that, despite me being “glass cannoned”. I get the glass alright, but the cannon isnt there.

Nothing is there except some AOE and if i didnt have that, i wouldnt exist.

This pretty much sums up what I feel too. Why make ele the hardest profession and then make it have NO PAYOFF WHATSOEVER? I can play my kitten dodging like a champ, moving like a maniac and all it takes is 2 snares and I am dead in 2 hits. What is going on with that? Good thing I absolutely love WvW or my ele would definitely be collecting dust as they are good for nothing else.

well in 8v8 they look for score, and thieves are quite good in the zerg to make points. so why do you think popupation of 8v8 is a “gage” for opness of classes?
do u know the difference in score between, for example, a guardian and a thief ?

WAD.6548:

“Really, balance is pretty good”
Do you, guys, really think that? Everybody knows how WoW idiotic unbalance crap is, but i play WoW battlegrounds hours and hours, hours and hours. Why? Cos you have chance survive even against 2 permanently bugged rogues in that game. But here, in situation 1vs2, wich always happened in spvp, you dead in 1.5-2 seconds if one of them thief.
Topics full of messages about that, but u think “balance is pretty good”.
This is absolutely abnormal, when in pvp games happens situations with instant dead with full hp for 2 seconds against 1-2 players. I classify it as bug.

“We don’t want to nerf X, then realize no one uses it”
And what you have now? Games full of thiefs and ruined pvp gameplay…

How many people say “remove quickness, it may help for a while, until next decision”? A lot. You not listen…

Nobody like insta-dead, nobody enjoy it, but game full of zerg.

Just remove (nerf) burst abilities, lower overall damage multiplier about 50% in pvp and game become a legend. So close to heaven..

Wait you said you stay alive long in WoW?

Let me take out my Ambush Rogue or 2 Minute Mage

Note to Jonathan Sharp as someone on the Elementalist forum stated before you nerf one of the only viable PvP builds for the class perhaps you should ask why players are using that build.

And please any balance changes should be iterative not big bang.

I feel so sorry for the devs of this game. I could never work in the industry… I know the player base pays the bills, but the vocal ones are just so ignorant, over-reacting, and childish, it would make the job mostly thankless.

The Bioware creators quit because of fans reactions, and that was after they had admittedly made quite a few mistakes. I think it would even be worse to deal with the knee-jerk reactions of “fans” when you are doing everything right.

Miserable.

denyitbattle.2609:

The Bioware creators quit because of fans reactions, and that was after they had admittedly made quite a few mistakes. I think it would even be worse to deal with the knee-jerk reactions of “fans” when you are doing everything right.

Miserable.

Parroting Pack-attack does not make one man’s opinion true. You have no clue what made the Bioware Dr.s quit and neither does Michael Packter. I hate qqers as much as the next guy, but MP was just looking for an opportunity to slight the whiners, even I saw through that and I hate the QQ fest every forum turns into.

The OP is laughable. You log into a random spvp and you have 80% of the toons all thief… how the hell is that balanced when everyone is paling the same class.. you can roll a thief and then just spam heart seeker and insta kill most players.. you can do 10K hits… it is absolute unacceptable.. and to think that they make this boastful post that the game is balanced is so shocking that I have lost all faith in this game and its developers as they are so completely out of touch.

Most of you got to understand – the balance is not about you casual PvP-ers with twentish hours of PvP under their belt. Its all about high-level tournament play – where there are no issues of bad play or unexperienced players. Random arena is never meant to be competitive or defining the PvP of the game. Learn to live with it.

And this last patch dealt with skills that were never an issue in top tournament play, so Im thinking it was the knee jerk nerfs, that the mass audience wanted to hear. And this is getting frustrating, because I have such a high expectations for this game, to become a real name on the competitive scene and I have invested more than 200 hours of PvP now and countless hours of theory crafting and stream observation – just to become a better player and my team – a better team. I wish this game doesn’t get zerged over by the wow fanboys and my time wasted.
In future, I hope ANet picks quality over quantity when considering further balance changes.

Jonathan Sharp : the balance is fine guys don’t worry we dont want a knee jerk reaction

2 days after the patch hit massive nerf to few classes =)) lololol

I don’t care about the crossfire animation breaking every once in a while…the CD you added on the cast is RUINING rangers in PVP…! PLEASE FIX IT this is ridiculous…it feels like I am shooting arrows in slow motion now…not acceptable…

Kalar Meadia.8439:

denyitbattle.2609:

The Bioware creators quit because of fans reactions, and that was after they had admittedly made quite a few mistakes. I think it would even be worse to deal with the knee-jerk reactions of “fans” when you are doing everything right.

Miserable.

Parroting Pack-attack does not make one man’s opinion true. You have no clue what made the Bioware Dr.s quit and neither does Michael Packter. I hate qqers as much as the next guy, but MP was just looking for an opportunity to slight the whiners, even I saw through that and I hate the QQ fest every forum turns into.

Didn’t even know that originated from Michael, honestly don’t care enough to know if it was true or not; I certainly wouldn’t blame them if it was.

Just look at the comment below yours… The user opens by stating that “80% of random sPvP being thieves is the perfect example of a lack of balance”. That is what they have to deal with, exaggeration compounded on stupidity. How can you hope to communicate, inform, and educate people like that? Let alone actually sate.

I wish all those people would just take a break and come back to the game when the high-end competitive tPvP is more visible. I constantly worry that their stupidity will somehow influence the devs. Fortunately, that does not seem to be the case so far =).

No, really guys. Balance and the meta is fine! Go back to bed! We got this!

Here’s the thing: certain classes need to be looked at. Some need some nerfs, others need buffs but when Anet’s been making changes, they’re not making the right ones. Cooldown changes, a 15% reduction in damage. These are not the issues and these nerfs have negligible effect because they’re not targeting the actual issues.

EDIT: You know, I actually missed a comment I should have said You know who still does balance better than this? The Old Republic. And I know that for most people that game is a punchline but even those devs generally manage to figure out relevant issues with classes and address them.

I wanted to chime in and say be careful when buffing Ele’s main hand dagger, dagger/dagger is a very solid skill set in the right hands right now. But Scepter main hand, not so much…

i d c the blogpost anymore.
where are the big pvp changes -.- its feel like 1/2 of “in the mists” player are inaktiv atm.

Albaraa.1635:

I don’t care about the crossfire animation breaking every once in a while…the CD you added on the cast is RUINING rangers in PVP…! PLEASE FIX IT this is ridiculous…it feels like I am shooting arrows in slow motion now…not acceptable…

Here we have the perfect example for the reaction of a clueless and intemperate player towards a normal game update. Seriously, you must be a troll. Crossfire builds, both skilled on traps or condition/power hybrid are still perfectly viable. You can use the same build as before. The damage has decreased on a level that is barely noticeable.
And the devs will have to read through nonsense like this…some people in this community are really trying hard to ruin any good atmosphere.

denyitbattle.2609:

Didn’t even know that originated from Michael, honestly don’t care enough to know if it was true or not; I certainly wouldn’t blame them if it was.

Just look at the comment below yours… The user opens by stating that “80% of random sPvP being thieves is the perfect example of a lack of balance”. That is what they have to deal with, exaggeration compounded on stupidity. How can you hope to communicate, inform, and educate people like that? Let alone actually sate.

I wish all those people would just take a break and come back to the game when the high-end competitive tPvP is more visible. I constantly worry that their stupidity will somehow influence the devs. Fortunately, that does not seem to be the case so far =).

It may be hyperbole, but the underlining concern is correct. Thief is, by an incredible margin, the most popular sPvP class in the game.

Competitive tPvP is irrelevant to this, regardless of your statment. There is a large and immediate concern about highly skewed participation rates in favor of thief, and for good reason. Discussions about tPvP is essentially a red herring argument because it is in and of itself a separate entity with it’s own culture. It also has its own problems.

But both sPvP’s and tPvP’s issues are equally valid and should be addressed.

So no, the solution is not to ignore the overstated or uninformed opinions, but to look at the root problem causing them. Thief is overly popular in sPvP for a reason, but even if Thief can and is often countered in tPvP, that does not solve the sPvP issue. Steps must be taken both to balance out the popularity and further inform the playerbase. In some cases, the only way to do that is to take a class down a notch or two, but in many cases a buff towards those that are weak to the build may be in order.

I’m not much one for tolerance of idiocy, but you have to have it if you’re thinking of making a game that doubles as a service. The cries of the low tier can often be warning signs that something somewhere needs to be addressed. You first start with the accusation, then you run through your causalities. But ignoring it outright is not the right course to take.

MaxChaos.3825:

And this last patch dealt with skills that were never an issue in top tournament play, so Im thinking it was the knee jerk nerfs, that the mass audience wanted to hear. And this is getting frustrating, because I have such a high expectations for this game, to become a real name on the competitive scene and I have invested more than 200 hours of PvP now and countless hours of theory crafting and stream observation – just to become a better player and my team – a better team. I wish this game doesn’t get zerged over by the wow fanboys and my time wasted.
In future, I hope ANet picks quality over quantity when considering further balance changes.

This is why balance changes should be iterative not big bang.

Plus the lack of communication as to what anets thoughts are on class balance and why they buff or nerf various things eg. the 7/10 patch is lacking and should be improved. While its obvious why some changes are made eg. changes to thief other changes are not obvious eg. the changes to elementalist.

Thank you :-), transparency with the player base is vital.

Khenzy.9348:

I wanted to chime in and say be careful when buffing Ele’s main hand dagger, dagger/dagger is a very solid skill set in the right hands right now. But Scepter main hand, not so much…

agreed.

Jonathan, please do look at ele’s mainhand scepter as well

I’d hope addressing balance also means addressing the lack of a PvE/PvP split.

Mesmers are dying in PvE because of PvP nerfs. Apparently 3 years of constant pushing by the community + the death of the Paragon in PvE wasn’t enough to make it apparent that PvE/PvP splitting is absolutely essential to Guild Wars.

Oh, and maybe an explanation for why Pact weapons and Tier 3 cultural armor are rares instead of exotics (especially given Tier 3 cultural armor is the most expensive thing in the game that isn’t a legendary).

If D/D elem needs – what about staff elem ??
One thing keeping staff elem above 0 dps – combos – builds without arcana doesnt exists.

Aba.6419:

If D/D elem needs – what about staff elem ??
One thing keeping staff elem above 0 dps – combos – builds without arcana doesnt exists.

…Builds without arcana exist, the problem always come down to the way you play ele, with the right coordination you can do fine 1vs1 even with a staff, though some opponents become quite hard while using staff : thief/ranger.

But definetely staff doesn’t lack dmg -fact.

chronometria.3708:

I stick with my ele….but every time i`m in that downed state i am wishing i had a button to just kill my character instead of being so helpless. Oh yes and every time i do those wvw puzzles in the borderlands i am wondering why my class is the only one not to reduce fall damage.

You have one, it’s called Mist Form (3rd button while downed) It will kill you just as fast as the mobs will because it counts as being downed again each time u use it. Lol

Darmikau.9413:

I’d hope addressing balance also means addressing the lack of a PvE/PvP split.

Mesmers are dying in PvE because of PvP nerfs. Apparently 3 years of constant pushing by the community + the death of the Paragon in PvE wasn’t enough to make it apparent that PvE/PvP splitting is absolutely essential to Guild Wars.

Equally with Ele if there are nerfs becuase of tPvP then its affecting everything else. I thought one of the ideas behind separating S and T PvP from the rest of the game was so that balance changes could be made in isolation.

Looking balances only/mostly from tPVP will drive normal players to OP classes at their skill level, which generates more complains and QQ’s. The skill curve should be adjusted to be the same for all classes, this is the balance that needs to be reached. It’s not like “OMG, bunker ele is too effective in tPVP, let’s pop it up”, this will not actually solve the balance problem unless it’s only a hot patch.

Thanks for the sPvP update recently.

While renting servers sounds exciting, I’m a little bit confused as to still not a word on different game types? Is it just me?

While you may not have a definitive list of the game types just yet, surely you have something planned for the future in regards to adding variety to game types. Surely there’s plans for PVP other than conquest?

PvP is the endgame in Guild Wars, all this PvE stuff and current sPvP is out of boredom and in anticipation of something other than conquest eventually(like soon).

Many people are anxious about this. Right now it feels like we’re in limbo. Don’t know whether to drop the game or get excited. We want to hear that you have definitive plans of adding different game types and that you excited about this as we are.

drinkmore.8053:

The skill curve should be adjusted to be the same for all classes, this is the balance that needs to be reached.

This is most likely utterly impossible.

Engi, Ele, Mesmer, etc., have way more abilities than most other classes, and require a much higher skill curve. I mean, Engineer in just sheer number of unique abilities you can use, outshines every other class nearly 2:1 (remember, each time you switch to a new kit, you get a new toolbelt ability for that kit as well, plus the kit’s own 5 new abilities).

The “problem” as I see it is, in other games high skillcap classes usually come with a reward. That is, if played right, they’re absolute monsters. Unfortunately in GW2 it is the other way around – classes that take little to no skill, pressing under 5 buttons per engagement, that are the monsters. And when played correctly, mostly via just luck and/or better positioning and synchronization with other similar classes, become unstoppable.

This could be addressed. For instance, it is VERY hard to hit a player with Engineer’s grenade. Parabolic trajectory makes flight time slow. Area where they will land is marked, giving you an easy heads-up on where to dodge. It has to be manually targeted, which is hard to do against a moving target at range, especially when kiting/rolling/etc. All that work has to pay off in a major way. Unfortunately #1 autoattack of many classes will do comparable damage. No payoff for a lot more work.

Sabbathius.1465:

The “problem” as I see it is, in other games high skillcap classes usually come with a reward. That is, if played right, they’re absolute monsters. Unfortunately in GW2 it is the other way around – classes that take little to no skill, pressing under 5 buttons per engagement, that are the monsters. And when played correctly, mostly via just luck and/or better positioning and synchronization with other similar classes, become unstoppable.

true: there are classes that are simple to use harder to master, there are classes hard to use hardest to master.

false: classes hardest to master will give a lot more rewards, but the fact they are hardest to master, people don’t focus on those the time and attention needed.

to make a funny example: in d&d, mage is the weakest class in the first 10-15 lvls (on 20 max), low hp, low damage, few spells available; over lvl 15 mages are the most op class in every roleplaying games.

so everytime someone says “l2p”, it is not always offensive, but it means you need to improve yourself before stating that “op nerf pl0x”BS.

Shukran.4851:

Sabbathius.1465:

The “problem” as I see it is, in other games high skillcap classes usually come with a reward. That is, if played right, they’re absolute monsters. Unfortunately in GW2 it is the other way around – classes that take little to no skill, pressing under 5 buttons per engagement, that are the monsters. And when played correctly, mostly via just luck and/or better positioning and synchronization with other similar classes, become unstoppable.

true: there are classes that are simple to use harder to master, there are classes hard to use hardest to master.

false: classes hardest to master will give a lot more rewards, but the fact they are hardest to master, people don’t focus on those the time and attention needed.

to make a funny example: in d&d, mage is the weakest class in the first 10-15 lvls (on 20 max), low hp, low damage, few spells available; over lvl 15 mages are the most op class in every roleplaying games.

so everytime someone says “l2p”, it is not always offensive, but it means you need to improve yourself before stating that “op nerf pl0x”BS.

Must you really make three of these posts on each thread page?

The guy you quoted is totally right. A necro or engi or ele (i play all three) needs to press 10 buttons to position himself, aim his spells, use them in the right order, all while making sure that he keeps enough abilities off cooldown to escape an unforeseen situation. A thief however presses 1 button and does all that, is able to use that 1 button multiple times in a row, and has superior and more get out of jail free cards.

And yes D&D mages were awesome. Clearly they just learned to play instead of learning Time Stop. Lets give that to Ele’s and you got a point.

Now please, can you answer us how exactly what it is that makes thiefs as involving and tactical to play as the others mentioned? No D&D arguments, no ‘’leet speek quotes’’ to get your non existant point across, and no saying we just dont have the ‘time and attention’. Is that in any way possible for you if will we always have to scroll past your angry defensive posts where you give off the impression of a kid jumping up and down in rage because we’re ripping on his favorite show The Teletubbies?

@ganksinatra: sorry if my main language is not english, as you can clearly see, but still you answer me so you can understand what i say.
btw i find it offensive your words and it is sad for someone like you talking so trashy.
have you played thief ? can you please try to go straight in front of your opponents in teamfights and tell me how much time you need to die? because it is fun a lot of people claim thief op and they don’t know exactly how the class works.
i am not closed minded like everyone of you who whine at every mechanic of the game. and i try to force everyone like you to understand that maybe some more improvement in your gaming would be nice.
and ofc my example was there just to generalize but you wanted to be smart. thank you.

btw with your

A necro or engi or ele (i play all three) needs to press 10 buttons to position himself, aim his spells, use them in the right order, all while making sure that he keeps enough abilities off cooldown to escape an unforeseen situation. A thief however presses 1 button and does all that, is able to use that 1 button multiple times in a row, and has superior and more get out of jail free cards.

you were smarter.

edit: for the record, i really didn’t care about PW nerf, about basilisk nerf etc etc…look how many angry rangers are out there…look at how many other players are there whining.. ofc it is me raging and defending my thief.huehue thief up, huehue..
enjoy the skipping of my posts. bye

Vaerah.4907:

Shukran.4851:

Wolfe.3097 : or change class forgetting thieves till a next balance/buff, because we will have a no dangerous-no hp-no armor-no usefull class after that, but every other player who don’t play thief will be happy.

Actually, when ANET said they were moving off the holy trinity, I thought they’d really do that.
The holy trinity was tank, healer and DPS. They indeed watered down tanks, gave heals a bit to everybody but they still kept “DPS”, in the form of thieves.

I’m not even sure just how “watered down” tanks are either tbh. Solo i can tank as good as in any other game on my guardian. Only difference is that we don’t have dedicated healers to rely on, but overall survivability between my guardian and tanks in other MMO’s are pretty much the same. Mace/shield support build makes me nigh on invincible unless i go up against poison spams.

So i guess the only thing A-net really got rid off were reliable healers.

I love Jonathan, cool guy

Anyway this is good to hear that many concerns and suggestions are being read on the forums.

Although I really hope that they are indeed taking a look at balance across all professions. And with that said, do not nerf over 75% of the professions just to bring them down to the level of a weaker profession. And I play as an elementalist so what i am saying is just buff one profession rather than nerfing all other professions.

This is exactly why pvp needs Z.

JonathanSharp.7094:

• Balance. Really, balance is pretty good. We’re very observant of the meta, we read the forums, and we’re playing the game with you. We don’t want to make knee-jerk balance decisions. And if did whatever the community wanted, what would happen to balance? How many threads are basically: “NERF X OMG!!” “Learn to play , X is fine” “Omg no, we can’t beat X at all!” “Just saying, none of the people I know even run X anymore” “Hey you guys forget X, let’s buff Y!”….then this just repeats over and over. We can’t just do exactly what players ask for in relation to balance, because different players at various skill levels view balance differently. So what we do is balance community feedback with gameplay results. We don’t want to play whack-a-mole with balance, so we don’t just nerf/buff everything as soon as someone posts about it. It would ruin the game if we did. We try to be patient, see if the meta fixes itself (because a lot of times, once you learn how to deal with something, you realize it may not be as imba as you first thought), and then make long-lasting balance changes. We don’t want to nerf X, then realize no one uses it, and buff it again, then have to nerf it again, etc. etc.

you nerfed pistol whip a couple of weeks ago and the Sword / Pistol set was completely abandoned, so you just buffed it again today. Point taken.

Warriors (the devs profession) on the other hand get buffed every time. Dev’s have admired in this forum that Warrior’s can do this but are “waiting” to apply the fix that is already done humm…

also 16k Hundred Blades has been op since beta has seen no “adjustments” because it is dodgable just like Pistol Whip but PW got nerfed down to having the same dps as auto-attack humm….

Nice balancing politic you have!

and for the finale, Mesmer Elite MOA 10 seconds of unbreakable polymorph making the target hopeless for (again) 10 seconds unbreakable! Thief elite Basilisk venom 1,5 sec of petrification breakable!… nuf said.

eeoooeeeoooeeeooo grammar police inc!

2nd bullet point “And if did whatever…” Should probably be “And if we did whatever..”

Bad grammar aside, I welcome the post. Some people just need to know that you are aware of certain issues. And simply stating “right now we’re paying close attention to X and Y and will make decisions after gathering enough data,” puts many people at ease. And you don’t even have to take action!

any other pvp modes planned soon? getting bored of those spvp maps and their objectives…

So… sorry, but QP and a NEW LAYER of tournaments? No ELO/ladder plans?

For a game which was supposed to be structured around PvP, why is the system so clunky?

“Balance. Really, balance is pretty good. We’re very observant of the meta, we read the forums, and we’re playing the game with you.”

you are tief and your friend plays mesmer

It’s hilarious how this thread turned into a Nerf Vs. Nerf debate exactly depicted in the OP.

What’s even more hilarious is how the OP basically told the whiners to lrn2play, albeit politely, and no one caught on to it.

In short, just another day on a public forum.

rickshaw.5279:

It’s hilarious how this thread turned into a Nerf Vs. Nerf debate exactly depicted in the OP.

What’s even more hilarious is how the OP basically told the whiners to lrn2play, albeit politely, and no one caught on to it.

In short, just another day on a public forum.

lol agreed

But in my post, i made it a priority to mention that each class should get a certain buff and some of the mechanics should be fixed with each profession. Balance creates a healthy and a more exciting gaming experience.

It allows people to actually be more skillful and develop clever strategies rather than using exploitations to get an easy win

Blazer Hellsing.9184
Arenanet, never change, Decide the balance yourself by playing the game, don’t make the epic mistake Blizzard did with catering to forum cry babies.

Main: Thief

LOL, we did’nt really expect him to say his main was anything else did we?

sorry but my language is not english so many errors in what is written.
in my opinion the game not need buff/nerf more than anythigs needs fixing things
for example im main thief, and i recognize that certain builds are exaggerated in damage.
but nerfs to make which glass cannon,wee seek a balance in the class to survive we seriusly affected(im critical and dont use assasing signet and haste)
in my opinion should be set limits of damage,no down damage to all skill.
for example a bs cant do more than 7k damage for more power and critical you have
and reduce is damage compensate whit thief more survivor as saying
i have thorgnes 2.1,18k life and die in 3-4 hits
(obviusly everthigs can evade in the game from 100 edged up BS)

and need fixed stealh renderized now…