Guild Wars 2

You have successfully killed TWO classes and severely damaged several others with absolutely no good reason behind it. This is not an overreaction. The QQ about quickness nerfs are not unjustified crying. It’s a legitimate response to a blanket nerf that completely destroyed already under-performing classes.

What has happened to every individual class has been poured over and over and cried about repeatedly, for good reason. Instead, let’s talk about the complete suddenness of the nerf. It feels as if this was a clandestine project designed to further alienate the player base. Under what scenario did you think it would be a good idea to NEVER mention this? I was never under any impression, playing this game exclusively for 4-6 hours every single day with other players in SPvP, that quickness would be changed. There was no jibber jabber or discussion about the pros and cons of this change as one would expect from something so incredibly game changing. All you did was slam our faces into a brick wall of a blanket nerf without considering the consequences to both the game and your reputation. You have caused many players in the tournament community to quit. Even worse, your playerbase has entirely lost faith in your ability to balance the game or make good decisions with how to progress.

Really, what drives me crazy is the fact that there was probably a gag order on the entire thing. There was a three hour SOTG. Three. HOURS. Three hours of balance discussion and discussion about how to progress the game with three developers. Did it even occur to you, before you even BEGAN talking about balance, to express your intentions to BLANKET NERF quickness? Why the hell not? Why the secrecy and consistent opaqueness when your actions have been nothing but disastrous to structured PvP for the past 9 months? Did you think nothing would change? Did you even KNOW that rangers and warriors used quickness in EVERY. SINGLE. BUILD. they have? If that’s the case then why did engineers receive the largest amount of buffs and bug fixes when they’re THE top performing class at the skill cap? Have you even recognized that the reason why engineers were dead in the first place was because of a nerf like this, one that completely destroyed ALL of the viable builds available to them?

Guys, come the kitten on. Please. Give us a reason, tell us what you’re going to do, TALK TO US SO THIS NEVER kittenING HAPPENS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Two classes killed? It only killed the warrior. Because their only build (more or less) was based around quickness because it was the only way to land 100b and to do enough damage before running off again. Thief build wasnt at all and isnt at all based around quickness so it didnt destroy that class.

Warrior – Frenzy
Rangers (sigh) – QuickStomp, QuickRezz, Bleed Stack up
EDIT: not totally relevant, but GS is just stupid without quickness

it killed rangers. There is no point to bring a ranger to a team anymore. On demand haste stomps and rezzes were the ONLY thing worth their lack of DPS, hurt even further because you can’t quickness stack bleeds anymore. Other classes can 1v1, other classes have more survivabiltiy, other classes have more utility, other classes have more roam speed and point defense.

Spot on. I did everything to be viable as a warrior. 1000 hours on my warrior in PvP, completely destroyed. And it’s not just quickness nerf. It’s also bladetrail nerf, which was one of the better skills. Maybe you’ll be able to adapt playing without it fully functional (not that i see why it should be nerfed in the first place) but you’ll never be able to adapt playing without quickness. Weapons just don’t attack fast enough. When you have no healing you need to be very lethal to survive.

Ostricheggs.3742:

it killed rangers. There is no point to bring a ranger to a team anymore. On demand haste stomps and rezzes were the ONLY thing worth their lack of DPS, hurt even further because you can’t quickness stack bleeds anymore. Other classes can 1v1, other classes have more survivabiltiy, other classes have more utility, other classes have more roam speed and point defense.

Dont really agree with this. Ranger is still good. Warrior and ranger aren’t comparable at all imo. Warrior is just useless. Ranger is ok

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ostricheggs.3742:

it killed rangers. There is no point to bring a ranger to a team anymore. On demand haste stomps and rezzes were the ONLY thing worth their lack of DPS, hurt even further because you can’t quickness stack bleeds anymore. Other classes can 1v1, other classes have more survivabiltiy, other classes have more utility, other classes have more roam speed and point defense.

Dont really agree with this. Ranger is still good. Warrior and ranger aren’t comparable at all imo. Warrior is just useless. Ranger is ok

There was not a single build that did not depend on either quickening zephyr or zephyr’s speed. The entire reason why rangers came into favor in PvP is because of quickness and quickness only. Their survivability and 1v1 potential are not unique, however their on-demand access to short CD quickness WAS and fit a niche that made up for their weaknesses elsewhere. There is no reason to bring a ranger to a team now.

I wish ArenaNet reworked their classes the way League of Legends does it, like how they completely remade Karma recently. Totally transformed her abilities, looks, playstyle, and balance all in one clean, neat package.

http://youtu.be/lWIj3IRz8DI

Instead, ArenaNet drags slowly through balance. They make awful decisions and then slowly fix them back up, with the ultimate goal in the future to achieve really good balance…some day.

Jonathan Sharp says over and over again, “We don’t want to do whack-a-mole balance.” But we already know what they’re about to do. They’ve completely torn the Warrior class apart. And right now, they are going to work on fixing them back up, three months from now. How is this not the very definition of whack-a-mole balance.

so the quickness nerf was pretty drastic and the reason for it was to help new ppl in the game. but it didnt just help new ppl in the game it helped make thiefs mesmers and warriors worse then they already were at top tier game play and that is not OK.

once before the devs listened to us and changed rez timer from the 20 second mistake rez to the 15 second that the whole community agreed on.

now i know we cant force anet to listen to us but i am asking ver politley to consider it. i didnt make a post for 3 days after the patch because i am still feeling everything out but for now i am asking for both sides. 50 % is to easy and even though i loved 100% because i loved being on my toes all day i am willing to meet ANET half way and we agree on 75% quickness.

YES 75% = 326 players

dont matter = 2 player

no keep 50% = 6 players (they are wither a bunker or ele btw)

please keep posting yes for 75% quickness. (or whatever you feel)

YES. They may be concerned with player alienation, but an extra 25% isn’t going to be a big change to new spvpers. It would be a lot more alienating to rework warrior for spvp.

No… 50%
or 60%

no. remove quickness

Quickness is fine as it is. GW1 had “quickness” at 33% speed for melee fighters, and that effect was always top tier. Granted, I’m comparing different games here, but GW1’s 33% increased attack speed effect was enough to make good players far more deadly, while still not making the game unfun to your average player.

Buffing it to 75% would be a mistake, because it would bring back its problems, even if at a lesser degree. A lesser problem is still a problem.

As it is now, quickness is still a strong effect, it’s no longer mindless by those who use it, and it’s no longer frustrating for those who eat it. It’s no longer a cheap mechanic.

No. Haste was not balanced. There’s a reason it was used so incredibly much. There may be rebalancing needed, but it should be done so those classes feel strong without using haste as a crutch. Utilities should be an option that you can choose to fit your build, not absolute must haves.

Quickness needs to be taken out of the game completely. You can’t balance skills around damage and effects for non haste play when here’s the chance you can get quickness and use skills at double or even 75% speed.

I dont see how this is so hard to understand for some people. If anything, attack speed of 25% increase for short durations, like 2 seconds, should be the absolute max.

In the end I don’t really care. Those that keep advocating quickness and 1 shot builds even if they are every minute or so are the ones responsible for declining population sat the lowest level. Balance is fine as it is and the one thing I’m pretty sure of, Arena Net wont go back on their change no matter how much whinging.

Yeah, in theory, 50% would still be too much. But considering that quickness skills have drawbacks (well, most of them anyways), and those drawbacks were only extended further 1 second for some of them, it kinda balances it out.

yes, or nerf bunkers…

No the way quickness as a buff works now is fine.
Increased attack speed has to be considered a temporary multi-purpose dps boost as both an alternative to Might or % buffs like Assassin’s Signet or the Ranger’s Opening Strike, and as something that can co-exist with them. Since quickness also allows you to get off your heals faster and revive faster it’s obviously significant, however it should clearly remain a choice and not something that determines viability.

When Anet told us about weapon-skills before Beta instead of the GW1 system, they said it would be easier to balance. They said utilizing weapon skills would help to ensure a level of competence in every build. If utilities are required to make weapons viable by them-self, then they failed and need to work on their weapon sets.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ostricheggs.3742:

it killed rangers. There is no point to bring a ranger to a team anymore. On demand haste stomps and rezzes were the ONLY thing worth their lack of DPS, hurt even further because you can’t quickness stack bleeds anymore. Other classes can 1v1, other classes have more survivabiltiy, other classes have more utility, other classes have more roam speed and point defense.

Dont really agree with this. Ranger is still good. Warrior and ranger aren’t comparable at all imo. Warrior is just useless. Ranger is ok

There was not a single build that did not depend on either quickening zephyr or zephyr’s speed. The entire reason why rangers came into favor in PvP is because of quickness and quickness only. Their survivability and 1v1 potential are not unique, however their on-demand access to short CD quickness WAS and fit a niche that made up for their weaknesses elsewhere. There is no reason to bring a ranger to a team now.

You have just spelled out the exact reason for their nerf to quickness all by yourself. You state that it was a necessity of every single build of warriors and rangers. In order for build variation to even possible in the future, quickness had to be reduced and hopefully they go the whole hog and remove it completely so that skills and the rest can be tuned to not be reliant on a mechanic that never should have made it out of beta.

I’m pretty sure anet are watching the meta and how things play out with the nerf and will adjust accordingly.

zone.1073:

I wish ArenaNet reworked their classes the way League of Legends does it, like how they completely remade Karma recently. Totally transformed her abilities, looks, playstyle, and balance all in one clean, neat package.

http://youtu.be/lWIj3IRz8DI

Instead, ArenaNet drags slowly through balance. They make awful decisions and then slowly fix them back up, with the ultimate goal in the future to achieve really good balance…some day.

Jonathan Sharp says over and over again, “We don’t want to do whack-a-mole balance.” But we already know what they’re about to do. They’ve completely torn the Warrior class apart. And right now, they are going to work on fixing them back up, three months from now. How is this not the very definition of whack-a-mole balance.

How is 1 extra second to channel a skill every minute destroying a class completely?

Valkyriez.6578:

You have just spelled out the exact reason for their nerf to quickness all by yourself. *You state that it was a necessity of every single build of warriors and rangers. In order for build variation to even possible in the future, quickness had to be reduced and hopefully they go the whole hog and remove it completely so that skills and the rest can be tuned to not be reliant on a mechanic that never should have made it out of beta. *

Since he said what I wanted to say.
Reinforcing for emphasis.

Think the main point here is not “why quickness was nerfed” but “why did we get zero warning about a 50% nerf to a game mechanic”

I mean if this happened to any other mechaic(50% nerf) you’d probably get mad. Hey cripple only slows for 25%, protection only goes for 15%, or any number of other conditions/boons/mechanics.
——————-

But hey, lets all focus on why quickness needed toning down while avoiding the bunker issue.

Hawke.6943:

No… 50%
or 60%

of course you say no, you’re an ele.

I agree btw. 75% would be cool.

Kultas Sunstrider.9218:

Hawke.6943:

No… 50%
or 60%

of course you say no, you’re an ele.

I agree btw. 75% would be cool.

Mr Kultas..i just said a straight no coz i didnt want to elaborate with walls of text about it.

Two reasons for you to say yes:
1-you main thief. u played 90% of your games with thief, u see a huge difference because u played it too much
2-kill eles ( when u actually practice kill him without haste, just teamwork )
Two reasons for me to say no:
1-save my teammates from thieves who brain-dead combo kills
2-Actually have a decent team-fight without timewarp faceroll

p.s i cant see why u complain when last night u killed me just with auto-attack.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

so the quickness nerf was pretty drastic and the reason for it was to help new ppl in the game. but it didnt just help new ppl in the game it helped make thiefs mesmers and warriors worse then they already were at top tier game play and that is not OK.

once before the devs listened to us and changed rez timer from the 20 second mistake rez to the 15 second that the whole community agreed on.

now i know we cant force anet to listen to us but i am asking ver politley to consider it. i didnt make a post for 3 days after the patch because i am still feeling everything out but for now i am asking for both sides. 50 % is to easy and even though i loved 100% because i loved being on my toes all day i am willing to meet ANET half way and we agree on 75% quickness.

YES 75% = 237 players

dont matter = 1 player

no keep 50% = 3 players

please keep posting yes for 75% quickness. (or whatever you feel)

I have a feeling this poll is very rigged; I don’t even think we have over 150 players posting on this forum lmao.
I am glad that you are willing to meet anet half way, god forbid you weren’t so forgiving, I shudder at the thought of you putting your foot down anets throat and forcing them back to 100% quickness!

Alright, since you actually had the audacity to ask for a buff to it, I just polled 368 players. I asked them:

What do you think about the recent haste nerf and how would you handle it in the future?

298 people said “50% is great, leave it as is”

66 people said “I think 50% is still too much, I’d rather see it lowered to 25% or completely removed”

4 people said “I’d like to see it further nerfed to 33%, but without telling anyone, so that those that abused it and actually think it was perfectly fine and needs to be bumped up again will look stupid a few months from now when we’ll tell them”

Valkyriez.6578:

How is 1 extra second to channel a skill every minute destroying a class completely?

^And this sums up the majority of the balance team at ArenaNet:

Ignorance.

I bet that is exactly what the ArenaNet devs ask themselves. They’re scratching their heads wondering what’s wrong. “Why is the PvP community bleeding out? Why has the competitive scene atrophied and died off?” Gee I wonder. Maybe your team needs to be more educated about PvP mechanics and have a better approach at handling PvP balance.

I made a thread before the recent patch and it seems that you guys at ANET took it to heart.

Warrior burst was beyond ridiculous and needed to be fixed. It was so stupid how warrior could come in and 1 shot everyone with quickness hundred blades, I even saw numbers as high as 59k with a SINGLE slash of the 100 blade attack.

This is a positive step into the future of the game but we still need to fix things such as:

Kill Shot damage
Pin Down bleed

Oh and endure pain is single handedly the most broken skill in this game.

Damage numbers on Hundred Blades are cumulative, not per strike. Not even going to comment on the rest of your post. Learn to play before posting on forums.

That’s nice and all and imma let you finish, but hundred blades can do 60K damage in a single slash . In a single slash

Fix mesmer’s mantras too…sick of being oneshotted by mantra of pain, it’s just riculous. Noone running shatter or phantasms because everyone rolls this op mantra spec on mesmer…time to stop this bs. Btw i just got hit with a 168.4k hundred blades…with a broom with sigil of rage on it o_o …..but since i’m an op mesmer with 340k hp (I know…but i had to sacrifice a ton of vitality for running my spec) i survived.

Oh yeah I did my own poll as well. At a 500 participants, 435 voted yes keep the 50% change. 51 people voted I don’t care. And 14 voted to revert the change.

50% is still a pretty good buff but it makes non-elite sources of quickness very risky propositions (ie. Frenzy, Quickening Zephyr). I’m not sure simply upping the duration of those will make them worth carrying, I mean who wants to spend EVEN LONGER taking double damage?

Quickness was nerfed, so No you won’t get a quick response.

Ostricheggs.3742:

it killed rangers. There is no point to bring a ranger to a team anymore. On demand haste stomps and rezzes were the ONLY thing worth their lack of DPS, hurt even further because you can’t quickness stack bleeds anymore. Other classes can 1v1, other classes have more survivabiltiy, other classes have more utility, other classes have more roam speed and point defense.

Rangers have definitely been hit hard by the quickness nerf. Im surprised more people don’t see it. They went from probably third best class to , middle of the pack. Now compared to warriors they are dandy, but rangers took a big hit.

why does nobody talk about banner of strenght ?

I just get shotted by this freaking thing coming from the sky, didn’t have even time to react.

aNet plz nerf

Mrbig.8019:

why does nobody talk about banner of strenght ?

I just get shotted by this freaking thing coming from the sky, didn’t have even time to react.

aNet plz nerf

Do you know that this banner also gives 12 minutes of (Pre-nerf) aoe quickness with 1200 radius? But only during fullmoon.

Remove the moon already anet!

gwawer.9805:

That’s nice and all and imma let you finish, but hundred blades can do 60K damage in a single slice. In a single slice

That was my favorite part of the post.

In all seriousness, they really need to nerf the 30 grandmaster trait in strength though. 100% extra damage on physical moves? ArenaNet what were you thinking, bull’s charge crits for like 2k with this.

I believe the change was necessary, but it should definitely had came along with changes to make both rangers and warriors more viable, such as either buff in damage in some areas, cc or whatever. Thiefs barely got hit by quickness nerf to be honest.

What i really wonder though is why no real nerfs to bunkers?

Archaon.6245:

Mrbig.8019:

why does nobody talk about banner of strenght ?

I just get shotted by this freaking thing coming from the sky, didn’t have even time to react.

aNet plz nerf

Do you know that this banner also gives 12 minutes of (Pre-nerf) aoe quickness with 1200 radius? But only during fullmoon.

Remove the moon already anet!

I heard you can counter it with a quadruple turret engie. it seemz that these 4 turrets when used together create an “anti super OP war” mechanical field which hinders these OP banners and then you can have a chance.

this hoping the war doesn’t have Rampage as elite.

in that case, may god show his mercy.

Mrbig.8019:

Archaon.6245:

Mrbig.8019:

why does nobody talk about banner of strenght ?

I just get shotted by this freaking thing coming from the sky, didn’t have even time to react.

aNet plz nerf

Do you know that this banner also gives 12 minutes of (Pre-nerf) aoe quickness with 1200 radius? But only during fullmoon.

Remove the moon already anet!

I heard you can counter it with a quadruple turret engie. it seemz that these 4 turrets when used together create an “anti super OP war” mechanical field which hinders these OP banners and then you can have a chance.

this hoping the war doesn’t have Rampage as elite.

in that case, may god show his mercy.

If you manage to plant 4 turrets on the map you actually auto win the game, it’s like a nuke in COD.

As a ranger, those 5 points on beastmastery just became useless. The rare ranger burst when down the drain, and screw support ranger. Adios the days when u had those epic quickrezz that saved the team fight by a milisecond or that quickstomp that rally some1 from your time.
GS and LB just became totally useless, why? Because there is not point using the most freaking slow weapons on the game without bloody quickness. That is what happened to ranger, we just became next to useless.
As for quickness as the concept, I really don’t mind if the take the WHOLE quickness from the game, BUT what really kitten es me off is the kitten nerf to complicated things. they might as well had laughed at ours faces.
But what tops it, it’s the little warning/information of this nerf. It just came out of nowere, like they felt like nerfing it without considering the actual situation of the PvP arenas. There was no compensation for the nerf, when warriors and rangers rely heavily on quickness due to they utilities/position on team comps.
They are killing this game slowly but surely. I still got to see a update that makes me smile and say “well done anet, you nailed it”.

Very constructive community.

I conducted my own poll as the numbers provided looked a bit fishy. My poll was taken from 26217 community members within the mists.

26210 Participants said “50% is still too much, please nerf it further”

5 Participants said “50% Killed my class, please change to 150%”

2 Participants said “50% is perfect”

This concludes my survey findings report, please use the collected data to determine future balance on the topic of quickness.

zone.1073:

Valkyriez.6578:

How is 1 extra second to channel a skill every minute destroying a class completely?

^And this sums up the majority of the balance team at ArenaNet:

Ignorance.

I bet that is exactly what the ArenaNet devs ask themselves. They’re scratching their heads wondering what’s wrong. “Why is the PvP community bleeding out? Why has the competitive scene atrophied and died off?” Gee I wonder. Maybe your team needs to be more educated about PvP mechanics and have a better approach at handling PvP balance.

Highly doubt balance has anything to do with it.

Lack of infrastructure would be the determining factor IMO.

YES

But Warrior, specially the GS tree, needs tweaking so not to be so dependent on HBlades.

We need a always-on banner side-by-side with our burst damage skill & one of the kicks removed & replaced by a new really useful skill (50% chance to block/Retaliate for 3 secs?)

Also our elite skills need re-working, rampage is a joke & our beast forms useless.

Also, Protection or Blocking chance included in some skills (we have no healing skills with block chances)

Quickness is a bs mechanic, just like confusion and retaliation. It is a cheap idea that was out of control, and now it’s been toned down. I generally don’t agree with the way Anet has approached balancing (slow, tedious, and detrimentally), but this needed to be done.

Sure warriors aren’t as good at their ‘one trick’ now (the one where they run up to you like a crack head with A.D.D. and try to blaze you down in 2 seconds), but seriously…

… it’s lame that that is all they can do (or all that anyone wants to do with them) in the first place. Too bad the rest of their tools are sub-par, but that’s no excuse to leave this bunk multiplier as was.

No. Actually, remove quickness from pvp, it just dumbs down the game and promotes unskilled gameplay, dependent on a skill.

And wtf? Did u make those numbers?

Killed rangers? Lolwut, they are prolly the best bunker right now, infinite dodges, high protection up time, lots of healing and heavy damage.
Other specs also have huge damage, you people are just building wrong.
Quickness is still lame, remove it for once and for all from sPvP, give them something else like a passive 10% damage bonus or something so they stop crying.

Thieves don’t suffer from this quickness nerf as much as people make it out to be. NA thieves haven’t been using it since pistol whip got nerfed back in the day. It was just never needed.

I think everyone agrees on warriors. While it does take away from what they can do now, it was needed in order for them to actually get warriors up to par. Quickness, imo, has no place in Spvp. All you warriors will shine one day, but nerfing quickness was needed to get to that place.

Does anyone else happen to remember the days where quickness would win team fights? The team would get decimated in normal team fights, but as soooooon as that timewarp came into play… It turned into alternating team fights with timewarp. Lame.

Smart move, ANET. I commend you.