Guild Wars 2

This thread mourns the loss of Solo Q.

Solo Q is by far the most popular ranked Pvp format that we have right now before the patch. It is a was to test your mettle by yourself without having to get rolled by organized teams every few matches. It would be even more popular without Skyhammer.

Pvp is being overhauled into “practice, play, and compete.”

Practice == hot join
Compete == Team Q

“Play” seems to be totally pointless.

Who is going to use this mode if hot join still exists? Not casuals, they still have hot join. Not hardcores, they have team Q. Not PvE or achievement farmers, their title tracks need ranked wins. This mode is unrated, which means that it will be rife with rage quitters and/or griefers.

I appreciate the need for players to have friendly matches, but that is what custom arenas are for. I appreciate the desire for some people to want to test builds, but that is what hot join is for. If hot join is broken, hot join should be fixed. Casuals will seek out the most casual mode.

There exists a perfectly good alternative to hot join and Team Q. It’s called solo Q. The griefers get buried on the leader board where they can’t grief. Players can test their mettle without the problems of organizing or getting rolled unorganized. It’s dying only to be replaced by a poorly thought out clone of team Q.

RIP Solo Q, you didn’t have to die so young.

Why are you talking about things that haven’t been released yet and assume you know how things will work?

It will all depend on how well the matchmaking algorithms will be – they will be taking into consideration pre-made teams and single players
If you Q up solo it should attempt to find solo players first – if you Q up in a group it should attempt to find pre-made teams first

Lets see how things pan out before we cry yeah?

Unranked queue is awesome for those that want to play “serious” pvp (aka, not hot join) without being stressed out by rank loss. Players will choose it for several reasons: to experiment builds, to learn how to pvp, to play with friends, to enjoy pvp without having enough confidence in their own skill, etc. Hot join, in comparison, is just mindless casual fun.

However, I’m seriously worried about the removal of solo queue. The original team queue was really bad for solo players, so I hope the system is very strict on picking players, and equally strict on making sure that skilled solo players are only matched with premades of a lower skill level. Still, it’s going to be a gamble, so the risk is there for the pvp experience of those players suck.

Casual here…. and if “play” works the same way Solo/Team Q work currently sans ranking, I’m perfectly happy with playing there. I don’t give a kitten about leader boards and ladders and all that jazz. I just like to dabble and work on the reward tracks.

Solo Q is getting removed. We like Solo Q, so the thread is valid.

There just aren’t enough players in team Q to avoid the organized team vs pug scenario. Good matchmaking would only help if there were a lot more players. And even if getting rolled by an organized team happens every 5 matches instead of every three, that still sucks.

IF play = short queues and a place to go for balanced matchups, randomized teams on joining with no spectate—> teamswap / teamstack antics then I predict that it will be popular.

nekretaal.6485:

Solo Q is getting removed. We like Solo Q, so the thread is valid.

There just aren’t enough players in team Q to avoid the organized team vs pug scenario. Good matchmaking would only help if there were a lot more players. And even if getting rolled by an organized team happens every 5 matches instead of every three, that still sucks.

Yeah, I agree. The system should be really strict on this, to the point that solo players should only be matched with premades after long queues, and the skill ratio should not be equal (aka, premades should be of a lower skill level than the solo players they face against).

It wolnt be that. Thats Compete.

Play is for people who want all of the trappings of an organized match (including the pre match long wait and leaver penalties), but don’t want achievement credit for a match victory.

I really don’t know why they would keep hotjoin under these rules. Nobody is going to learn anything there. The only thing they will learn how to do is bop to the team that is winning.

In reality, what should have happened was the removal of hotjoin entirely, and the addition of an Unranked queue, leaving Solo Queue and Team Queue as they stand.

Still, I think this change might be a slight improvement with the new map selection and other changes.

The matchmaking will adjust for the loss of SoloQ. I mean, how many people solo join to teamQ? This will even that out so they play where the belong and more premise teams play other premades.

I like soloQ too but if this is implemented well it won’t matter.

Roe.3679:

The matchmaking will adjust for the loss of SoloQ. I mean, how many people solo join to teamQ? This will even that out so they play where the belong and more premise teams play other premades.

I like soloQ too but if this is implemented well it won’t matter.

Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. I already usually have more fun soloing in team queue than I do playing solo queue :/

Roe.3679:

The matchmaking will adjust for the loss of SoloQ. I mean, how many people solo join to teamQ? This will even that out so they play where the belong and more premise teams play other premades.

I like soloQ too but if this is implemented well it won’t matter.

But will it work well? Seems like a very complicated thing to acchieve.

At least duo queue can be a thing again.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Roe.3679:

The matchmaking will adjust for the loss of SoloQ. I mean, how many people solo join to teamQ? This will even that out so they play where the belong and more premise teams play other premades.

I like soloQ too but if this is implemented well it won’t matter.

But will it work well? Seems like a very complicated thing to acchieve.

At least duo queue can be a thing again.

Duo queue is already possible with the current team queue system. What do you mean?

Arachnid.4062:

Roe.3679:

The matchmaking will adjust for the loss of SoloQ. I mean, how many people solo join to teamQ? This will even that out so they play where the belong and more premise teams play other premades.

I like soloQ too but if this is implemented well it won’t matter.

Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. I already usually have more fun soloing in team queue than I do playing solo queue :/

Right, but think of the other changes mentioned, like choosing maps and really cutting down on AFK players with an I’m ready button.

If the matchmaking works well, it will be really nice. Sounds like it should.

Arachnid.4062:

Duo queue is already possible with the current team queue system. What do you mean?

Just as solo queue is possible with the current team queue system. Both aren’t very fair currently with the existing matchmaking.

Remember in GW1’s Random Arena where “teams” would simul queue and if their queue popped they would announce in voice chat and join then roll the randoms?

Yeah, I am sensing a return of that “feature”.

wait what! YOLOQ gone? I…I…I don’t understand.

Edit – Ok read the info I’m pumped. Lol.

Typical Anet. Remove the most popular form of pvp.

Solo que has been mostly dead on EU for a good while, long ques and unbalanced matches. This is a good move.

Seems like soloq is still going to be there, but itl just be merged with teamq and the game will automatically place you against other solo people.

The only thing i’m worried about is when there arent enough people online then youll get 5 soloq players up against a 5 man. They mention that it wont have a big effect on your ranking but that wont make it any less boring to get steamrolled 3 matches in a row.

The new player rating system should hopefully increase the number of pre-made teams, similar to Hall of Heroes.

This is depending on the system of course.

RIP Skyhammer.

I mean BIH Skyhammer.

(Burn in hell)

Sizer.5632:

The only thing i’m worried about is when there arent enough people online then youll get 5 soloq players up against a 5 man. They mention that it wont have a big effect on your ranking but that wont make it any less boring to get steamrolled 3 matches in a row.

SWTOR had the same type of pvp, solos against teams. It was not fun continually getting rolled over. It was one of the factors that lead to a shrinking population in pvp and only made the situation worse.

Spirit Watch and Sky Hammer in Tournament rotations by the end of next year

Just wait

New arena mode is basically turning the time dial back a year before the queue split. Yay.
We won’t get the teams back though.

I remember when us fellow puggers go “oh great” when we get matched against Vampire Katana, Undercoverism, vVv or known duo-queuers. We were all rank 30s 40s then and fought like cornered rats but life was good, decent teammates, selling dyes, getting trash talked…

Honestly, I’m confused as to what exactly is going down. I get that Hotjoin is now “Practice” (no pre-set teams, no leaderboards, no penalties for leaving early) and that Solo Queue has now been rolled into Team Queue to form “Compete” (pre-set teams and solo joiners allowed, leaderboard progression enforced, penalties for leaving early), but what exactly differentiates “Play” from “Compete”? Only the “no leaderboard progression”?

In any event, I’ll wait and see what Josh’s blog post tomorrow says before forming my verdict.

If the “play” version or unranked arena gets the rank points that soloQ has now, I can see many people interested in it. As a casual PvPer I’d be very much interested in a more relaxed mode where you can’t switch team by forcing auto-balance like in hotjoin and still get reasonable reward track completion. In any case anything is better than it is now. The other day I was matched up against Texbi, I mean really? I’m not even on the leaderboard…

cranos.5913:

In any case anything is better than it is now. The other day I was matched up against Texbi, I mean really? I’m not even on the leaderboard…

It just goes to show how small the current population is even on EU, and how the existing match making system struggles to find enough people to form competitive and fun match-ups.

Overall, Anet is taking a big gamble by merging the current solo and team queues to the new Ranked Play mode. The current state of things is tragically flawed, so the need on Anet’s side to improve the experience is evident. But (and it’s a big but) it all boils down to how well the new algorithm works with the theoretically higher pool of players. Can it offer a meaningful sense of progression and a minimum amount of unbalanced match-ups even for solo players? Or will there be a glass ceiling where good solo queuers end up banging their heads against the brick wall that is organized teams? I remember the days before solo queue, when the only option was to go yolo in team queue. I’d hate to see a repeat of 2012, because a lot of players will walk if those days return.

The key to growing the player base is to build a queue system that is scalable and offers incentive for players of all skill levels to develop their play in a challenging but fair environment. Getting stomped by organized teams is not it, but neither is waiting 12 minutes for a pop only to team up with people who think that stacking multiple bodies on a node makes it tick faster. On paper the proposed new system shows promise, but it all comes down to execution. I hope Anet can deliver. Fingers crossed.

OP is so mistaken. No one is going to play unranked? Are you serious?

Let’s say my team isn’t on. There’s no way in hell I’m played ranked solo because of the risk of going up against trio, quad, and even five man teams (when people online is scarce). I imagine the same for many others who will eventually care about their rank when it matters with a new system coming.

Basically they are adding a tier in between hotjoin and soloq where you get penalised for leaving and are expected to know how to play.

Soloq is then the solo ranked option within compete.

Its a great change. But it requires more players to work well.

Time to buff PvP rewards…

Relentliss.2170:

Typical Anet. Remove the most popular form of pvp.

Then why I usually have longer queue in Solo than in Team (alone)?

I’m all in favour of this update.

Its a mistake to create an unranked queue because it continues with a divided community. To continue with a divided community (which is very small anyway) whilst introducing more comprehensive matchmaking is a mistake.

It is a maths problem. The new algorithm for matchmaking will only work based on a large player pool. That will not be possible due to the splittng of queues.

The result is that the algorithm won’t work. People will just wait ages in solo queue and be put against premades.

They could of really given it a chance to produce a better pvp experience by removing unranked and just having practice play and rank queue. But as usual their oversight is they release no info until it is too late to take and act upon feedback. Which is a massive problem with how they approach their development generally.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Its a mistake to create an unranked queue because it continues with a divided community. To continue with a divided community (which is very small anyway) whilst introducing more comprehensive matchmaking is a mistake.

It is a maths problem. The new algorithm for matchmaking will only work based on a large player pool. That will not be possible due to the splittng of queues.

The result is that the algorithm won’t work. People will just wait ages in solo queue and be put against premades.

They could of really given it a chance to produce a better pvp experience by removing unranked and just having practice play and rank queue. But as usual their oversight is they release no info until it is too late to take and act upon feedback. Which is a massive problem with how they approach their development generally.

I sort of agree splitting the player base in two pools instead of three is better but…

We are currently splitting the players into three pools – HJ-Solo-Team

But now with rewards and such for ladders people will probably not que unless they have their super team and are all but guaranteed a win – I think solo people queing up will become rare as people game the system but we can only hope it doesn’t become that way

1. Improve Skyhammer
2. Improve Matchmaking
3. Fix 4v5 Situation
4. Remove SoloQ

Erm… Okay? You finally do the things SoloQ players have been requesting for over a year only to remove it after.

SAY WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?

If everyone continues to queue up alone then nothing will change. The idea of premades 5 mans vs pugs is not going to happen as its matching teams with teams. Allegedly. Plus, this type of thing already happens in teamQ now, but it should fix that.

So if you soloQ, just keep playing solo. Won’t change much.

Talking it over with my guild, unranked arena is going to take away from hotjoin, not ranked. Some of our players want to get into pvp, but don’t want the pressure of letting the team down. At the same time, they know their time playing hotjoin isn’t helping much. We plan to use unranked as a way to get more of the guild into pvp. When they are more comfortable with how pvp works, we can have them on our team for ranked matches.

So I’d say unranked was definitely needed.

Arcadio.6875:

Talking it over with my guild, unranked arena is going to take away from hotjoin, not ranked. Some of our players want to get into pvp, but don’t want the pressure of letting the team down. At the same time, they know their time playing hotjoin isn’t helping much. We plan to use unranked as a way to get more of the guild into pvp. When they are more comfortable with how pvp works, we can have them on our team for ranked matches.

So I’d say unranked was definitely needed.

Solid points. Unranked sounds like serious practice or relaxed competition. I think it should pull all serious hotjoiners and anyone not quite ready for ranked play.

After reading the second blog post I’m even more hyped. Really good changes.

I guess I’ll see what the reward for “Play” is like before deciding whether or not to give it a go.

Roe.3679:

If everyone continues to queue up alone then nothing will change. The idea of premades 5 mans vs pugs is not going to happen as its matching teams with teams. Allegedly. Plus, this type of thing already happens in teamQ now, but it should fix that.

So if you soloQ, just keep playing solo. Won’t change much.

Of course premades vs pugs is going to happen.

The pvp community is small, so you are going to q up with your premade, wait 2 minutes, and then get matched up with whatever pugs are Quequeing.

All that’s going to happen is you will drive the solo Q players out, and ruin team Q.

Also, unless they change the achievements, play is just compete without rewards. Same game mode, just no rewards. Who wants that?

nekretaal.6485:

Roe.3679:

If everyone continues to queue up alone then nothing will change. The idea of premades 5 mans vs pugs is not going to happen as its matching teams with teams. Allegedly. Plus, this type of thing already happens in teamQ now, but it should fix that.

So if you soloQ, just keep playing solo. Won’t change much.

Of course premades vs pugs is going to happen.

The pvp community is small, so you are going to q up with your premade, wait 2 minutes, and then get matched up with whatever pugs are Quequeing.

All that’s going to happen is you will drive the solo Q players out, and ruin team Q.

Also, unless they change the achievements, play is just compete without rewards. Same game mode, just no rewards. Who wants that?

Exactly.

nekretaal.6485:

Pvp is being overhauled into “practice, play, and compete.”

Practice == hot join
Compete == Team Q + Solo Q

There – fixed it for you. Let’s give the new matchmaking algorithm a chance and expect 10 solo players to be matched up in a match just like they would through solo q even with the new Compete format.

Bit early to complain about loss of something that isn’t necessarily gone.

Obsidia.5127:

nekretaal.6485:

Roe.3679:

If everyone continues to queue up alone then nothing will change. The idea of premades 5 mans vs pugs is not going to happen as its matching teams with teams. Allegedly. Plus, this type of thing already happens in teamQ now, but it should fix that.

So if you soloQ, just keep playing solo. Won’t change much.

Of course premades vs pugs is going to happen.

The pvp community is small, so you are going to q up with your premade, wait 2 minutes, and then get matched up with whatever pugs are Quequeing.

All that’s going to happen is you will drive the solo Q players out, and ruin team Q.

Also, unless they change the achievements, play is just compete without rewards. Same game mode, just no rewards. Who wants that?

Exactly.

The only way this is happening according to the new matchmaking is that there are so few players online, but here still manages to be a full premade team out of hardly any players on that gets matched against pugs. Seems very unlikely. The sky isn’t falling.

Plus, this type of matchmaking already occurs in teamQ, with less ways around it than Anet is introducing in this patch. So what you’re afraid of is as bad as it gets right now, not after the patch.