Guild Wars 2

So, the brave new pvp selling point of the expansion was dropped from the get go, and now we’re finally seeing be put down like a lame horse.

But is it the game mode’s fault? Or simply a apathetic community and lack of investment from Anet?

To me Stronghold was the game mode that showed most potential out of any other that we have. It had a huge strategic component, and unlike stack-DH/Chronos/Tempests-on-point-and-win (aka Conquest) the game mode allowed more variety and less copy the meta and spam rotations.

Personally its disheartening that it got disregarded so quickly by arena net.

The more i hear about Season 5, the less i feel hyped about it. Although the new MMR and rewards system seems good enough (although you keep perpetuating the error of making PvP about earning PvE rewards), but the game is less and less about being social, and more and more about being anti-social. And honestly if i wanted to have angsty raging toxic 12 year olds to contend with, id play a MOBA, i mean those are built for that, and even then they still keep their team-based competitive play healthy, not extricate it entirely.

Stronghold was a PvE race – who is faster? That’s it!

If stronghold would give 5 points per kill, it would be different, or if there would be one shared main lane (and the 5 points per kill) it would be a different answer…

Im very happy we don’t have Stronghold anymore. A PVE map that literally just needed some hearts and vistas to make it indistinguishable from Cental Tyria. And also a place where premades filled with PVE’ers farmed legend wings.

I believe Stronghold is still in unranked. In my opinion, I feel it is better suited for guild vs guild matches. Or 5 man premade vs premades, that communicate with each other better.

Stronghold should be 10v10. Not conquest, not WvW. Something between. It’s own game mode.

ReaverKane.7598:

But is it the game mode’s fault? Or simply a apathetic community and lack of investment from Anet?

It’s partly the game mode, but it’s more ANet’s fault for not fixing stronghold’s numerous flaws. For example, archers are still useless. You simply push doorbreakers, which stay alive long enough to get through two doors. Then you just whittle down another PvE mob. No reason to dedicate time to fighting other players.

The community was skeptical of the mode because of it’s heavy PvE slant. They gave it the benefit of the doubt during beta weekends, but the worry became true when ANet did nothing to fix the major flaws which caused it to be so PvE-centric.

Also, stronghold is far more toxic than conquest. In stronghold, winning requires everyone to follow the same plan. When someone doesn’t cooperate, your team loses, and the blame game starts. In conquest, the strategy isn’t as clear-cut, and stronger players can carry for weaker and uncooperative players. As a result, there’s less animosity because there’s ambiguity in the cause of the loss.

They really could have done better than a mini wvw for an expansion anyway

I still love stronghold. Been queing it lately over conquest and it is just much more fun. The complain about being all pve and no pvp just really isn’t true. Unless the other team makes no effort to stop your door breakers then you will need to fight them off, which almost never happens. I typically get just as many kills per game in stronghold compared to conquest if not more.

ReaverKane.7598:

So, the brave new pvp selling point of the expansion was dropped from the get go, and now we’re finally seeing be put down like a lame horse.

But is it the game mode’s fault? Or simply a apathetic community and lack of investment from Anet?

To me Stronghold was the game mode that showed most potential out of any other that we have. It had a huge strategic component, and unlike stack-DH/Chronos/Tempests-on-point-and-win (aka Conquest) the game mode allowed more variety and less copy the meta and spam rotations.

Personally its disheartening that it got disregarded so quickly by arena net.

Totally agree, I loved stronghold but its basically been killed, rip.

From the get go it was clear that stronghold needed the 8v8 sPvP back in order to be fun. 5v5 is simply too few on a map that activly discourage PvP by spreading everyone out too much.

ArthurDent.9538:

The complain about being all pve and no pvp just really isn’t true.

Play it with organized groups. It’s about dumping healing into the doorbreakers so they don’t die until the gates are down. It was easily done in the past with Tempest and Chronomancer. Once both doors are down, you don’t have to worry about anything but your lord and theirs. Whoever kills lord fastest wins.

Dawdler.8521:

From the get go it was clear that stronghold needed the 8v8 sPvP back in order to be fun. 5v5 is simply too few on a map that activly discourage PvP by spreading everyone out too much.

Very true. There’s just way too many objectives on the map for 5 ppl to handle. For example, I’ve never seen anyone using that trebuchet.

In addition to that, I think some of the design choices were bad. 2 spawn points for the heros? There should be a single central location. Also needs a more clear indicator of when you are carrying supplies. Sometimes I realize I’m carrying them only after dropping them upon being defeated.

The game mode can be fun but it is too complicated for the general audience.

Communication and cooperation is a must on this map. Everyone needs to understand the plan and work together. On conquest, individual can have way more impact through pure personal skill with minimal communication.

Exciton.8942:

The game mode can be fun but it is too complicated for the general audience.

I’d say Stronghold is maybe complicated but you don’t need to follow the mechanics in order to win. The best tactic in Stronghold is to heal up the doorbreakers and keep them safe as they destroy the doors then rush the Lord. Stronghold is often a race, while the game mode shouldn’t be a race.

Exedore.6320:

ArthurDent.9538:

The complain about being all pve and no pvp just really isn’t true.

Play it with organized groups. It’s about dumping healing into the doorbreakers so they don’t die until the gates are down. It was easily done in the past with Tempest and Chronomancer. Once both doors are down, you don’t have to worry about anything but your lord and theirs. Whoever kills lord fastest wins.

Don’t forget spamming CC on the NPC’s after the first door, so you can kill them before they kill the doorbreakers – it’s all about PvE

stronghold was dead when they didn’t bring out ant new maps for it after the first few months. It’s a shame really. I enjoy the odd game every now and than to brake up coliseum matches, because that’s all people seem to vote for. I miss Court yard too. if anything PvP needs more modes than more maps. Conquest is fun for a while, but not 4 years worth of fun. But that’s just my opinion.

I prefer Stronghold to Conquest, but I think to make Stronghold better they should remove the initial starting supply.

Warcry.1596:

I prefer Stronghold to Conquest, but I think to make Stronghold better they should remove the initial starting supply.

Then the mode turns into a giant mess at the supply depot at the start. The initial supply was meant to prevent a need for all 10 players to rush the depot at the start.

Stronghold was announced with HoT as a GvG game mode brought back from GW1 with more than 5 players per team… They never made it what they initially advertised it to be.

It is because all anet cared about was their “esports” dream which was basically them convincing the out of touch higher ups to part with some cash to give to their friends.

All else was sacrificed. Including stronghold.

Well a business reaps the rewards of its actions. GW2 is making less money every day and they only have themselves to blame.

Tiefsee.3647:

Stronghold was a PvE race – who is faster? That’s it!

If stronghold would give 5 points per kill, it would be different, or if there would be one shared main lane (and the 5 points per kill) it would be a different answer…

Yes. Shared main lane would totally change the way Stronghold plays.

R O C.6574:

Yes. Shared main lane would totally change the way Stronghold plays.

They tried that in internal alpha tests. They didn’t like how it worked since the fight seemed to stalemate forever or just shift from side to side, but never finish.

Sounds like some players are saying: Gordon, “Stronghold is the mode that we need but not the mode we deserve right now.”

The irony is that Stronghold was initially well received during Alpha/Beta tests until three weeks after release. If there was a public test realm that held Stronghold for a month or two before releasing it, they would have seen its flaws sooner. Players appreciated Conquest more lol.

While I appreciate them trying something different, and it was an okay map, my problem with it is that matches tend to go on longer than in other maps.

They should have just shifted it from simultaneous attack/defense where each side can ignore the other, to one round of offense and then one round of defense (but both sped up relative to the existing versions).

ReaverKane.7598:

So, the brave new pvp selling point of the expansion was dropped from the get go, and now we’re finally seeing be put down like a lame horse.

But is it the game mode’s fault? Or simply a apathetic community and lack of investment from Anet?

Lack of investment from anet. It was never what anet initially advertised it to be and it was a poor moba hybrid, there have been other moba hybrids that worked better.

Saiyan.1704:

The irony is that Stronghold was initially well received during Alpha/Beta tests until three weeks after release. If there was a public test realm that held Stronghold for a month or two before releasing it, they would have seen its flaws sooner. Players appreciated Conquest more lol.

I liked stronghold even if it’s far less interesting than a real GvG mode, but it’s just 10% of a game mode. Where are the other maps and improvements?

I mean you can’t make less than 1 map for a game mode…

Stronghold needs 10 player teams and different objectives so guild teams can compete.

Stronghold is by far my favorite game mode. It allows you to shake things up with new builds that cater to a totally different game type. I, as a thief, absolutely love the big open map that allows me to use my mobility to get wherever I need to be and the opportunity to be able to fight in open spaces without having a tiny circle to have to fight on.

What it needs is more maps, and maybe a guard and archer rework. Make archers more valuable.

I’d be interested in trying out an 8-man stronghold, I think it would definitely add a new element with more engaging skirmishes on more areas of the map simultaneously.

Can still be played unranked. It is my favourite game mode. It was mentioned about it coming back in a later season. Hope so, I am not interested in Conquest.
A complaint people made was teams used to farm people. I solo/duo qued the whole time. People who didn’t want to do it could uncheck it, Don’t see why they preferred Conquest anyway to it anyway but why should they care if they have unchecked it ad are playing Conquest if others are playing Stronghold ranked?
It would be like in PvE, doing Teq to get the gold then complaining that other people are making gold by doing dungeons. Different ways to do things.

Sinmir.6504:

but why should they care if they have unchecked it ad are playing Conquest if others are playing Stronghold ranked?

because people were getting to Legend status playing stronghold which you could literally do without having to actually fight or kill other players. Which kinda defeats the purpose of “Player v Player”

Spartacus.3192:

Sinmir.6504:

but why should they care if they have unchecked it ad are playing Conquest if others are playing Stronghold ranked?

because people were getting to Legend status playing stronghold which you could literally do without having to actually fight or kill other players. Which kinda defeats the purpose of “Player v Player”

That would only work if you are doing all 5 pushing for lord and absolutely nobody on the enemy team defends. Full rush can work but if there is strong defense on the enemy team then it could fail. And with only allowing solo/duo queuing for ranked I can see the number of full rushes declining. People have a minute to nail down their strategy to the team, can’t be a 5 man premade that everybody knows what the plan is before the match starts.
What does it matter if a player gets to legend doing a different game mode? Aren’t they more likely to stay in Stronghold mode anyway? Not get good at one mode, get into a higher division and change modes in ranked?
I just don’t get why Conquest players care. I don’t see Sunbringers complaining that Dungeon players have a different way of getting gold and loot.

Maybe if they had 2 separate ranking systems. Not too familiar with the new ones but if it was that you could get to Legend in Stronghold but if you play Conquest you would be Amber, get to Legend in Conquest but still be Amber in Stronghold.

Gold and Loot is not the same as Prestige PvP rank. But yeah I agree with solo/duo queue there would be less farming using premades like before.