Guild Wars 2

… on GoW no, it’s a real pleasure. Why? You are down you are dead. You have just crawling for join your mates, shelter behind a wall, etc… No stupid rallybot, you need a mate to get up.

For Example: In 1v1, 2 players is down, 2 players is dead, it’s a draw.

You are down, rallybot is not possible with stupid DPS on players or mobs. You are down and your opponent die, you are not up, you need a mate for up. You need a mate or you die with the time, dps, or finisher. It’s the real PvP, it’s the real WWW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=U7MlPsGWs7I

Sorry for my English.

I think this is one of the crappy carry overs from PvE that we are forced to deal with in PvP, since GW2 seems like a cash grab on the name of its predecessor, and NC Soft didn’t feel like implementing one of the most revolutionary ideas presented in GW1 (separation of balance between PvE and PvP) would be worth it in the end money wise.

We could still have downed states, remove rally… adjust HP amounts, and skills to work better in PvP, while keeping it as is for PvE. IF we had separation. You can cry here all you want but it will NEVER EVER get implemented.

No, remove it in PVE too. Downed stat is the reason roles don’t REALLY exist in PVE, and why boss mechanics only consist of GIANT 1 shot mechanics. It’s because it’s the only way for people to die and not be constantly picked back up, just have cheesy mechanics to force people into a twitch zerker meta and win in 20 seconds or lose. And out goes strategy and good game design.

If I had my way, there would be no rallies except hard rallies and manually picking people up and only once per combat, otherwise you die for good. Simple, clean, and 2000x more fun/risky.

Rally is fine as is.

Too late to change anyways if you don’t like the design, but people like me do.

It ruined what could have been a good game because of the balancing around it. I’m not going to try to prove it to you, but I deeply believe if it didn’t exist, the balance around it NOT existing would make the game much more enjoyable for just about everyone. Being the same (a place where the game would have never even ended up had it never existed) but taking away downed state, yeah, it wouldn’t seem like such a great idea because PVE would be near impossible and pvp would be zerker bate ahoy, but if numbers were balanced around not expecting you to die every few seconds in PVE or being bursted down in PVP, the overall gameplay could have been improved.

The downed state is a joke and It needs fixed, badly.

The cool downs for healing yourself in the downed state are to long, and get interrupted way to often (on every hit, then the CD resets). You are technically just bandaging yourself, it cant even be considered a full healing ability! I would like this skill removed and replaced with something that makes more sense. A better healing mechanic is needed here.

Your attacks in downed are weak and rather pointless. I dont think anyone should be able to 1 shot another player who is not downed. But when you are downed, its only about ‘tagging’ something around you that is under attack and close to death to ‘rally’. Tab target and hope your team mates (or other PvErs) kill that target before your downed timer expires. It’s another aspect of zerging. Has no skill and no strategy to it.

Just cause I’m down does not mean I can’t be defensive! the endurance bar should be active on downed state too. You can’t dodge, but you should be able to ‘roll around’ to reduce damage of that attack, or ‘parry/block’ attacks if you are wearing the right gear. (Parry with a OH sword, Block with a Shield…ect).

And finally, there needs to be a skill that every player has to stop other players from temporary stomping you to death. Not a stun, but a stomp interrupt. And it needs to be AOE.

I like downed state. It makes the PvP more coordinated and skillful play can be used around it. It makes the fights more intense. A reason GW2 might have this is because we don’t have dedicated healers to keep people alive. You can have support, I know this, but there is no “healing class”.

I see valid reason within other arguments, though. So I can see why you want it removed.

tichorum.2415:

I like downed state. It makes the PvP more coordinated and skillful play can be used around it. It makes the fights more intense. A reason GW2 might have this is because we don’t have dedicated healers to keep people alive. You can have support, I know this, but there is no “healing class”.

I see valid reason within other arguments, though. So I can see why you want it removed.

Actually, with support we do have healers. Everyone can heal themselves… That’s actually pretty unique to this game. The healing isn’t really ignorable neither. Zerker eles can pop back to 100% constantly. We’re our own healers.

How Rally/Downed-State came to be:

1. Let’s not have a trinity
2. Hmm, dying right away kind of sucks though. It’s too punishing.
3. Let’s have downed-state where everyone can heal you in 2 seconds.
4. But what when you’re solo?
5. Oh, great idea. You “rally” if you manage to kill someone before you die.
6. That’s cool, yeah.
7. Test and tune it exclusively in PvE.
8. Copy + Paste into sPvP and WvW.
9. Ignore the god awful game-play implication it has.
10. Pretend it’s still a cool feature.
11. Ignore constant criticism.

one of the coolest things i find in GW2 is downed state, every other game should have it, you reach 0 health, you go down, almost dead, and you have a chance to survive, its awesome!

Like I said above. Downed stat COULD have been cool as a clutch IF:

- It was equal between classes.
- Once per “combat”
- no rallies, only pick ups and stomps (/dps down)
- A “give up” button like borderlands 2 had so you don’t waste time on the ground.
- In pve, if you’re downed and go out of combat you rally (so if you kill something in a clutch, you can raise but only if you killed everything)

And finally they just tone down burst a bit to compensate (in pvp AND, especially PVE).

Then you can spend more time strategizing and being skillful on your feet, not “skillfully” picking up people off their kitten. d(‘-’d)

I don’t know whether it’s a good idea over the entire game, but I think it could make an interesting option for custom arenas. A private tournament with rallying disabled could be very interesting.

Generally speaking I think options that completely remove some of the rules of combat, like Rallying, would be really cool in custom arenas. If they do really well, then add them as special weekend modifiers in solo queue, or a weekly modifier for WvW.

ronpierce.2760:

- A “give up” button like borderlands 2 had so you don’t waste time on the ground.

This would also be nice. I think the ‘strategy’ of letting your opponents bleed out rather than killing them off is silly.

Dee Jay.2460:

How Rally/Downed-State came to be:

1. Let’s not have a trinity
2. Hmm, dying right away kind of sucks though. It’s too punishing.
3. Let’s have downed-state where everyone can heal you in 2 seconds.
4. But what when you’re solo?
5. Oh, great idea. You “rally” if you manage to kill someone before you die.
6. That’s cool, yeah.
7. Test and tune it exclusively in PvE.
8. Copy + Paste into sPvP and WvW.
9. Ignore the god awful game-play implication it has.
10. Pretend it’s still a cool feature.
11. Ignore constant criticism.

12. Listen to positive feedback about rally

I think the critics are the one’s ignoring that there are two sides to this

Rally is a feature “Anti-PvP”. You can give 1000 positive arguments, it is and will remain a feature “Anti-PvP”.

2v1, i fight vs 2 players, a mate is touched by my 2 opponents but don’t fight and run in other point. I down my 2 opponents, i have 10/15% HP, my mate is dead in other point in the map, my 2 opponents is up by rally, i’m killed, i lose my fight…

Other example, WWW, 20v50. You and your 19 mates have down 15 opponents on 50. A player (noob or other, the number 21) is touched by opponents and killed. It’s 15 opponents up. The job is totally ruined by ONE player. (This example is valid with a Moa, and this is not a joke)

All positive arguments are cleared for these reasons.

I’m ok with down and finisher, but for rallybot, no, it’s anti-PvP.

Zoxea.9564:

Rally is a feature “Anti-PvP”. You can give 1000 positive arguments, it is and will remain a feature “Anti-PvP”.

2v1, i fight vs 2 players, a mate is touched by my 2 opponents but don’t fight and run in other point. I down my 2 opponents, i have 10/15% HP, my mate is dead in other point in the map, my 2 opponents is up by rally, i’m killed, i lose my fight…

Other example, WWW, 20v50. You and your 19 mates have down 15 opponents on 50. A player (noob or other, the number 21) is touched by opponents and killed. It’s 15 opponents up. The job is totally ruined by ONE player. (This example is valid with a Moa, and this is not a joke)

All positive arguments are cleared for these reasons.

I’m ok with down and finisher, but for rallybot, no, it’s anti-PvP.

You can do the same thing to the enemy team. If you don’t find it fun that’s different than it being unfair. Fun is not universal though, what you don’t find fun other people do.

Zepidel.5349:

I think this is one of the crappy carry overs from PvE that we are forced to deal with in PvP, since GW2 seems like a cash grab on the name of its predecessor, and NC Soft didn’t feel like implementing one of the most revolutionary ideas presented in GW1 (separation of balance between PvE and PvP) would be worth it in the end money wise.

We could still have downed states, remove rally… adjust HP amounts, and skills to work better in PvP, while keeping it as is for PvE. IF we had separation. You can cry here all you want but it will NEVER EVER get implemented.

If by “cash grab” you mean far more profitable and with many more players than GW1, then sure its a cash grab.

Shockwave.1230:

I like unbalanced fast-food.

Each his own. But unbalanced feature is a unbalanced feature.

Comparing two completely different games isn’t exactly the way forward, but yes.. I do agree down state needs amending.

Zoxea.9564:

Shockwave.1230:

I like unbalanced fast-food.

Each his own. But unbalanced feature is a unbalanced feature.

It’s not unbalanced/unfair as previously explained. Both sides can utilize this. You just don’t like the big swing in momentum that follows when it isn’t beneficial to you.

Instead of constantly complaining, bashing everything you can about the feature, and anyone that disagrees with you, come up with potential solutions with examples. For example, “I think rally should have a 5 man cap, because in WvW you do all this work down enemies from a zerg. We’ve downed 20 players before and one of ours was defeated then nearly all 20 of the enemies were rezed. A 5 man cap wouldn’t impact PvP or a lot of PvE, or just apply the cap to WvW”

Yada yada yada…

I did come up with solutions…

Like I said above. Downed stat COULD have been cool as a clutch IF:

- It was equal between classes.
- Once per “combat”
- no rallies, only pick ups and stomps (/dps down)
- A “give up” button like borderlands 2 had so you don’t waste time on the ground.
- In pve, if you’re downed and go out of combat you rally (so if you kill something in a clutch, you can raise but only if you killed everything)

And finally they just tone down burst a bit to compensate (in pvp AND, especially PVE).

Then you can spend more time strategizing and being skillful on your feet, not “skillfully” picking up people off their kitten. d(‘-’d)

Shockwave.1230:

Zoxea.9564:

Rally is a feature “Anti-PvP”. You can give 1000 positive arguments, it is and will remain a feature “Anti-PvP”.

2v1, i fight vs 2 players, a mate is touched by my 2 opponents but don’t fight and run in other point. I down my 2 opponents, i have 10/15% HP, my mate is dead in other point in the map, my 2 opponents is up by rally, i’m killed, i lose my fight…

Other example, WWW, 20v50. You and your 19 mates have down 15 opponents on 50. A player (noob or other, the number 21) is touched by opponents and killed. It’s 15 opponents up. The job is totally ruined by ONE player. (This example is valid with a Moa, and this is not a joke)

All positive arguments are cleared for these reasons.

I’m ok with down and finisher, but for rallybot, no, it’s anti-PvP.

You can do the same thing to the enemy team. If you don’t find it fun that’s different than it being unfair. Fun is not universal though, what you don’t find fun other people do.

The end result is always a snowball effect though.

The winning team gets a further boost by rallying their downed players in the process of killing enemies.

Have you ever seen a GvG where the teams burn each other down 1 by 1? It barely ever happens. It’s normally the first 2-3 kills that decide the outcome thanks to the snowballing nature of rally/downed-state.

It is bad in every way. It has no positive side-effects unless you consider “noob friendliness”, because it provides safety in numbers, a good thing.

It also means that team-fights are all about rallying/finishing and really not so much about the actual combat. And frankly that’s just stupid because that’s not what PvP should be about.

It’s also exceedingly rare for attrition to happen in a fight. Even if you have two equally strong 30 man zergs clashing, the end result will be something like 25 vs. 0 because of downed-state/rally. Once team A downs the first 2-4 enemies not only does team B have less to work with and thus less chance to down member of team A, team A also gets to rally every few seconds as they increasingly overwhelm team B with their ever-recovering forces.

In the end Rally and Downed-State help the winning side more than they help the losing side. And such a snowballing mechanic should really be avoided in any PvP setting. It robs weaker groups or outmanned opponents of any chance to stage a comeback or even put up a reasonable fight. Snowballing is a common pitfall in PvP design but none has ever been as severe as downed-state/rally in GW2.

Dee Jay.2460:

Shockwave.1230:

Zoxea.9564:

Rally is a feature “Anti-PvP”. You can give 1000 positive arguments, it is and will remain a feature “Anti-PvP”.

2v1, i fight vs 2 players, a mate is touched by my 2 opponents but don’t fight and run in other point. I down my 2 opponents, i have 10/15% HP, my mate is dead in other point in the map, my 2 opponents is up by rally, i’m killed, i lose my fight…

Other example, WWW, 20v50. You and your 19 mates have down 15 opponents on 50. A player (noob or other, the number 21) is touched by opponents and killed. It’s 15 opponents up. The job is totally ruined by ONE player. (This example is valid with a Moa, and this is not a joke)

All positive arguments are cleared for these reasons.

I’m ok with down and finisher, but for rallybot, no, it’s anti-PvP.

You can do the same thing to the enemy team. If you don’t find it fun that’s different than it being unfair. Fun is not universal though, what you don’t find fun other people do.

The end result is always a snowball effect though.

The winning team gets a further boost by rallying their downed players in the process of killing enemies.

Have you ever seen a GvG where the teams burn each other down 1 by 1? It barely ever happens. It’s normally the first 2-3 kills that decide the outcome thanks to the snowballing nature of rally/downed-state.

It is bad in every way. It has no positive side-effects unless you consider “noob friendliness” because it provides safety in numbers good thing.

It also means that team-fights are all about rallying/finishing and really not so much about the actual combat. And frankly that’s just stupid because that’s not what PvP should be about.

The argument put forth isn’t even an argument about rallying. For example, killing your enemies results in a snowball effect, because you now have more players than the enemy team now. This is bad because targeting makes this noob friendly where all you have to do is ctrl + t and focus someone down. The more you focus target, the more snowbally combat becomes. It also means that team fights are all about focus targeting and not so much about the actual combat, and frankly that’s just stupid because that’s not what PvP should be about.

Another example, killing your enemies results in a snowball effect, because you now have more players than the enemy team. This is bad because damage is so prevelent from autoattacks and low recharge skills that the team with the most readily available defenses makes it all noob friendly where all you have to do is build for more defenses than the other team while spamming your offensive skills, and frankly that’s just stupid because that’s not what PvP should be about.

You are arguing that snowballing is the issue, but snowballing is a result of enemies being defeated, not rally tagging. Downed allies are still in play.

I like the rally mechanic. Seems to me the complaints are mostly from people who like the dueling aspect of PvP. over the teamwork aspect. The rally mechanic makes it so the more coordinated team will come out on top even over a group of players whose individual skill ,may not be as high as said team. Some of the most exciting white-knuckle moments in GW2 have been managing down state play. A clutch CC to keep a teammate from being stomped, saving that precious stability to secure a stomp, portal rescues, banner and spirit rezes. There should be some snowball aspects to having greater numbers. Knowing when and how to disengage is just as valid a skill as learning your combat rotations. Knowing when to stomp and when to bleed – not getting yourself in a situation where you are downed in a bad location all add mor depth and skill to the game.

nature spirit and being able to command pets while downed as well as the 3 skill when downed, elixir r, glyph of renewal, sweet revenge, symbol of judgement, etc. ranger will probably always be the king of downed state and you would probably see a ton more spirit rangers but as you can see many classes have ways to cheat death without the need of a teammate to res. a game mode where down = death would be nice though.

Shockwave.1230:

Dee Jay.2460:

Shockwave.1230:

Zoxea.9564:

Rally is a feature “Anti-PvP”. You can give 1000 positive arguments, it is and will remain a feature “Anti-PvP”.

2v1, i fight vs 2 players, a mate is touched by my 2 opponents but don’t fight and run in other point. I down my 2 opponents, i have 10/15% HP, my mate is dead in other point in the map, my 2 opponents is up by rally, i’m killed, i lose my fight…

Other example, WWW, 20v50. You and your 19 mates have down 15 opponents on 50. A player (noob or other, the number 21) is touched by opponents and killed. It’s 15 opponents up. The job is totally ruined by ONE player. (This example is valid with a Moa, and this is not a joke)

All positive arguments are cleared for these reasons.

I’m ok with down and finisher, but for rallybot, no, it’s anti-PvP.

You can do the same thing to the enemy team. If you don’t find it fun that’s different than it being unfair. Fun is not universal though, what you don’t find fun other people do.

The end result is always a snowball effect though.

The winning team gets a further boost by rallying their downed players in the process of killing enemies.

Have you ever seen a GvG where the teams burn each other down 1 by 1? It barely ever happens. It’s normally the first 2-3 kills that decide the outcome thanks to the snowballing nature of rally/downed-state.

It is bad in every way. It has no positive side-effects unless you consider “noob friendliness” because it provides safety in numbers good thing.

It also means that team-fights are all about rallying/finishing and really not so much about the actual combat. And frankly that’s just stupid because that’s not what PvP should be about.

The argument put forth isn’t even an argument about rallying. For example, killing your enemies results in a snowball effect, because you now have more players than the enemy team now. This is bad because targeting makes this noob friendly where all you have to do is ctrl + t and focus someone down. The more you focus target, the more snowbally combat becomes. It also means that team fights are all about focus targeting and not so much about the actual combat, and frankly that’s just stupid because that’s not what PvP should be about.

Another example, killing your enemies results in a snowball effect, because you now have more players than the enemy team. This is bad because damage is so prevelent from autoattacks and low recharge skills that the team with the most readily available defenses makes it all noob friendly where all you have to do is build for more defenses than the other team while spamming your offensive skills, and frankly that’s just stupid because that’s not what PvP should be about.

You are arguing that snowballing is the issue, but snowballing is a result of enemies being defeated, not rally tagging. Downed allies are still in play.

You don’t seem to understand what snowballing is.

Snowballing is rewarding the already dominant team with even more benefits, thus making them even harder to overcome. Another snowballing mechanic were the olb Orbs for example because the winning side with more people could also claim more orbs and thus become even harder to defeat.

Just killing your enemies in a normal situation isn’t snowballing. It’s just regular PvP.

Normally you’d have to dedicate a fraction of your forces for a short time toward manually reviving downed-players. A winning side does not have to do this because rally does the job for them.

And btw. you don’t have to subscribe to mine line of reasoning. You just have to actually play the game to see this effect in action thousands of times, every day. If you’re gonna deny the snowballing nature of downed-state and rally then there’s really nothing left to discuss. Because it’s the most blatant example of such a mechanic in any game to date.

Dee Jay.2460:

You don’t seem to understand what snowballing is.

Snowballing is rewarding the already dominant team with even more benefits, thus making them even harder to overcome. Another snowballing mechanic were the olb Orbs for example because the winning side with more people could also claim more orbs and thus become even harder to defeat.

Just killing your enemies in a normal situation isn’t snowballing. It’s just regular PvP.

Normally you’d have to dedicate a fraction of your forces for a short time toward manually reviving downed-players. A winning side does not have to do this because rally does the job for them.

And btw. you don’t have to subscribe to mine line of reasoning. You just have to actually play the game to see this effect in action thousands of times, every day. If you’re gonna deny the snowballing nature of downed-state and rally then there’s really nothing left to discuss. Because it’s the most blatant example of such a mechanic in any game to date.

???

???

???

When you have growing tangible benefits over your oponent is what you are referring to with your original snowballing comment, no?

Numbers are tangible, how does a growing disparity in numbers in favor of one team not display your definition of snowballing? The defeated state is the core of what you are referring to when it comes to numbers advantage. Rallying is a supplemental mechanic off defeat, that compounds numbers advantages, but it’s not rally that is the core to this numbers advantage.

It’s the total amount of players and the defeated state that are the core, rallying is something extra, that only comes into play when people are downed and a defeat occurs.

By saying “Just killing your enemies in a normal situation isn’t snowballing. It’s just regular PvP.”, you’re saying scaling the numbers to your advantage isn’t scaling the numbers to your advantage. That makes no sense.

I agree with the following:
“Normally you’d have to dedicate a fraction of your forces for a short time toward manually reviving downed-players. A winning side does not have to do this because rally does the job for them.”
But there’s no problem with this assuming equal numbers, as both sides are perfectly capable of utilizing this functionality.

People are trying to say there’s a problem, because smaller forces in WvW can’t take on big zergs, but let’s actually look at what’s going on in this situation…

A smaller force is taking on a larger force. There’s where the imbalance lies, not with the rally tagging mechanic. As has been mentioned previously the rally tagging mechanic just makes it easier for the larger force to up their downed up, but that doesn’t make the rally mechanic broken or imbalanced, it just accentuates the numbers imbalance of a smaller force going up against a larger force.

In 5v5 pvp there’s no inherent numbers advantage, which makes the mechanic balanced overall. In WvW numbers are rarely equal and is where the more valid complaints come from.

Shockwave.1230:

[…]

I’m sorry but rally is very bad, also, in PvP.

2v1, i fight vs 2 players, a mate is touched by my 2 opponents but don’t fight and run in other point. I down my 2 opponents, i have 10/15% HP, my mate is dead in other point in the map, my 2 opponents is up by rally, i’m killed, i lose my fight…

You can not ignore this example, and many others, in PvP.

Zoxea.9564:

Shockwave.1230:

[…]

I’m sorry but rally is very bad, also, in PvP.

2v1, i fight vs 2 players, a mate is touched by my 2 opponents but don’t fight and run in other point. I down my 2 opponents, i have 10/15% HP, my mate is dead in other point in the map, my 2 opponents is up by rally, i’m killed, i lose my fight…

You can not ignore this example, and many others, in PvP.

How is that a problem?

It applies to both teams.

Also this scenario doesn’t happen, across the map causes you to lose tag. They can die somewhat nearby and this be a valid scenario though.

Just because it applies to both sides doesn’t make it bad. That’s like saying OP classes can exist because both sides can exploit them. Such a goofy argument. If a team is good enough to beat 1v2 or 2v3 or even 2v4 strength in numbers should not say “well duh, they haz more so they should win”. No. That’s COMPLETELY and purposefully throwing skill out of the equation. If 2 people are tearing down the walls because the enemy isn’t playing well enough or don’t have a good synergy or communication they should not have even MORE crutch on top of outnumbering their enemy. I don’t know why people keep thinking this idea of “the game keeps going after you die, its a skillful and indepth play scenario”, it’s not. They balance damage around people dying, which means more time is spent dying and less time fighting with your actual skills than it should be to compensate for this goofy kitten mechanic.

I think it’s amazing that nearly 2 years after release, the community is split ~50-50 on whether down state ruins/improves GW2. Imagine how many players there might be playing GW2 had they not included such a divisive “feature”.

Personally I think it’s the worst/lamest PVP feature of any game, ever, and I’ve been playing PVP games for 25 years.

Situation I hate downed state and rallying :
- 2v2 fight, My mate get downed 1s before I down one of them, and therfore die 1s before I get to stomp my opponent. => my opponent rally and basically what should have been left to a 1v1 between me and the last opponent becomes a 2v1 and I die.
- 1v2 fight, I manage to down someone but I had to burn my stability during the fight (what actually should be the main use if the game didn’t have that stupid mechanic) so I can’t stomp and I basically downed the guy for nothing.
- there’s multiple ennemies and a thief involved. basically you down the thief and can never stomp him because he port and stealth and his allies get him back up, or you down one of the thiefs friends and the thief just stealth him and revive him while you can’t do anything.
- we down multiples ennemies and they all rally by killing that one kittened drake that aggroed us and got hit by all the AoE just to get low enough to get instantly killed and rally them all.
- close 1v1 warrior vs warrior, you down the ennemy warrior with close to no hp left, he down you while in down state, then he gets to revenge first, stomp you and rally.
- you down an ele close to a tower and he just mist form back to his tower with a trollface.

Situations I like down state :
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-
-

Oh, downstate. However rare, sometimes i think of playing this to try out pvp again, but then i remember downstate, and i laugh to myself and forget about this game for another few months. This is simply the worst pvp mechanic i have ever seen and its making a bad game stay bad.

I will never play this game when there are so many other pvp games that dont have this (GEE I WONDER WHY THEY DONT ANET). You stay super speshul, gw2. Its totally working out.

ronpierce.2760:

Just because it applies to both sides doesn’t make it bad. That’s like saying OP classes can exist because both sides can exploit them. Such a goofy argument. If a team is good enough to beat 1v2 or 2v3 or even 2v4 strength in numbers should not say “well duh, they haz more so they should win”. No. That’s COMPLETELY and purposefully throwing skill out of the equation. If 2 people are tearing down the walls because the enemy isn’t playing well enough or don’t have a good synergy or communication they should not have even MORE crutch on top of outnumbering their enemy. I don’t know why people keep thinking this idea of “the game keeps going after you die, its a skillful and indepth play scenario”, it’s not. They balance damage around people dying, which means more time is spent dying and less time fighting with your actual skills than it should be to compensate for this goofy kitten mechanic.

Rally off kill is used by all classes, it’s not different between the classes. There is no class with an OP version of rally tagging where they only have to down someone in order to rally, while all others have to defeat someone. It’s equal between all classes that’s why it’s balanced.

Rally is one of the most absurd things in this game.

1.) If you get hit with a huge crit when you are almost dead, thats overkill. You should just die instantly.

2.) Downed state should not allow you to live as long, stomping should happen faster, if you immediately start stomping a player you just downed, you should not have to worry about a knock back or mist form, any counter to stomp from the downed player.

3.) People reviving a downed player should not be allowed to until they are out of combat.

Things I like about downstate:
Gives your team a chance to keep you in the fray of battle.

Things I don’t like about downstate:
Rallying.
Able to rez yourself.
No suicide button when you are getting bled out.

Thoughts on down-state:
If it was turned to is he needed to win the match or can we let him die I think it would change the whole flow of combat. Takinga way the healing skill and turning it into a stop the bleeding skill that makes your health bar stop draining and then adding fifth skill that suicides right away I think would fix a lot of problems with down state. Without the holy trinity we have down-state, but with down-state with have the most kittened rally mechanic ever, and that is where the major problem is when it comes to competive play, that 4v5 where you down all but the fifth and you lose one man and he gets spiked turned in to a snowballing battle now a 3v5 just is kittened and should not be a part of competitive play be it PvP or WvW. (And don’t get me started on why all those trash mobs should not be in WvW, EotM did it right on that aspect bar the aetherblades, but only 1 group of trash in the dead center and highest point of the map is bearable, not every corner you look in.)

Other example (not rally but downstate players use auto-heal and DPS):

Battle of Kyhlo, i’m blue, 0-0.

I rush on far. Far is guarded by a mesmer (the mesmer is late, he has not seen me, it is a surprise for him).

I fight with my zerker hambow and i down the mesmer. I have maybe 35/40% HP. Use finisher on mesmer is not possible because a ranger join the fight (Use dps or finisher = i’m dead by ranger and mesmer).

I don’t use finisher and jump on the ranger. I burst the ranger. I down the ranger. I have maybe 5/10% HP. Kill the mesmer and the ranger is not possible because mesmer and ranger use DPS. I have 0 CD for stability. I leave the fight and descended the slope to protect me, tempo for take heal (i have heal signet and dog of ranger run after me, big pressure i run and escape for take my heal :P) I have not time for take big heal because mesmer and ranger use auto heal.

I join the ranger and i shoot (interrupt auto heal/down HP) the ranger. I rush mesmer because mesmer have 90+% HP. I shoot the mesmer, i interrupt heal of mesmer, i give 2 or 3 shoot on mesmer for down HP. I look at the ranger. The ranger use dog godmode heal. I have not time for interrupt, the ranger is up. My HP is very bad, ranger kick my kitten in 2sec, i’m down, i’m stomped. I have down 2 players IN REAL FIGHT but i lose. I win in fight, i’m dead and mesmer/ranger lose in fight, they are alive.

Downstate is currently bad: auto-heal, dps and rally on dead player is bad. (and my English is bad, sorry)