Guild Wars 2

So yeah. The reasons for which Lich-Form is balanced are that you can:

• block
• blind
• go out of sight
• reflect
• use the terrain properly

I agree with all of them. But then, then there’s Rampage. Transform elite skill on 120s CD, which does 20% more damage, has a tremendous amount of CCs and most importantly, it deals TONS of DPS.
By using rampage you gain: access to a lot of powerful control abilities, insane DPS, mobility, immunity to CCs, something very close to immunity to immobilize/chill/cripple, permswiftness and on top of that, tremendous HP pool. So, what are the counters?

Reflects? Nope!
CCs? Nope!
Soft CCs? Nope!
Dps? Nope!
Stab? Nope!
Well then, maybe I guess I can outrun him? You guess, it: nope!

Yes, I am asking for nerfs, in case you didn’t notice. I consider Rampage an “I-win” button. And what’s most irritating is that there are NO counters. Not even run. Just hope to survive thanks to aliens or something.

or you can run a df ele and win it 1v1
or you can run an engi? not 100% rampage but you can anti rampage

Frenk.5917:

So yeah. The reasons for which Lich-Form is balanced are that you can:

• block
• blind
• go out of sight
• reflect
• use the terrain properly

I agree with all of them. But then, then there’s Rampage. Transform elite skill on 120s CD, which does 20% more damage, has a tremendous amount of CCs and most importantly, it deals TONS of DPS.
By using rampage you gain: access to a lot of powerful control abilities, insane DPS, mobility, immunity to CCs, something very close to immunity to immobilize/chill/cripple, permswiftness and on top of that, tremendous HP pool. So, what are the counters?

Reflects? Nope!
CCs? Nope!
Soft CCs? Nope!
Dps? Nope!
Stab? Nope!
Well then, maybe I guess I can outrun him? You guess, it: nope!

Yes, I am asking for nerfs, in case you didn’t notice. I consider Rampage an “I-win” button. And what’s most irritating is that there are NO counters. Not even run. Just hope to survive thanks to aliens or something.

Sure but nerf grenade bug, Mesmer, and Thief first.

Right now Thief has a sleeper build and Mesmer is just absolutely annoying and anti-fun much like Rampage.

Sadly this patch has a lot of positive feedback from veterans for once, so don’t expect too much.

you can use mesmer signet (with 180 seconds cd tho)

See, when the only solution to kill a rampage is another rampage I pretty much think theres something wrong.

FlawlezZ.3178:

you can use mesmer signet (with 180 seconds cd tho)

144 if traited so ye it can be counter for wars rampage

As much as I love my Rampage, its hard to argue that it’s not overpowered. You actually missed the biggest overpowered feature. Skill 1 interrupts. I will jump (skill 5) into a group of people and just spam 1 to interrupt everyone in the area while my party cleans people up. And if I’m on Foefire, I can run straight to the lord and Rampage him down in one burst. It will interrupt every one of his heals. This however doesn’t excuse Lich Form entirely. Lich Form still needs toned down, but admittedly, so does Rampage.

Your should add that rampage can rez and stomp when other elite transforms can’t.

Not going to mention the stomp ability?

just counter rampage with whirlwind or plague-form or interrupt the cast. YOu could also use the blinding Well or the one that corrupts boons. It’s also possible to easily get perma-weakness on the war with either a Necro or an S/D-Ele. Oh and then theres also Moa.

And these are the ones just on top of my head

Frenk.5917:

So yeah. The reasons for which Lich-Form is balanced are that you can:

• block
• blind
• go out of sight
• reflect
• use the terrain properly

I agree with all of them. But then, then there’s Rampage. Transform elite skill on 120s CD, which does 20% more damage, has a tremendous amount of CCs and most importantly, it deals TONS of DPS.
By using rampage you gain: access to a lot of powerful control abilities, insane DPS, mobility, immunity to CCs, something very close to immunity to immobilize/chill/cripple, permswiftness and on top of that, tremendous HP pool. So, what are the counters?

Reflects? Nope!
CCs? Nope!
Soft CCs? Nope!
Dps? Nope!
Stab? Nope!
Well then, maybe I guess I can outrun him? You guess, it: nope!

Yes, I am asking for nerfs, in case you didn’t notice. I consider Rampage an “I-win” button. And what’s most irritating is that there are NO counters. Not even run. Just hope to survive thanks to aliens or something.

• block – yes
• blind – yes
• go out of sight -yes
• reflect – no, its a melee transformation while lich is ranged
• use the terrain properly – yes

Almost the same counters, so its balanced…

Some classes can port away to unreachable places for warrior ( before rampage ends.) With lich you can keep the ranged atack.

silentnight warrior.2714:

• block – yes
• blind – yes
• go out of sight -yes
• reflect – no, its a melee transformation while lich is ranged
• use the terrain properly – yes

Almost the same counters.

• block? No. 1 very quick autoattack and the block vanishes.
• blind? Same as before.
• go out of sight? LOL nope. Rampage warrior con surely outrun a centaur AND you.
• terrain? Not really. As I pointed out before, the gap-closer + the permaswiftness easily help the rampage getting to you.

I find somewhat manageable to cojnter it with mediguard, but even assuming I havent wasted any of my 3 blinds, 4 block and shelter, the transformation lasts enough to let him kill me.

If you cycle ALL of your defenses as a guard, it still isn’t enough. You have to pray that somehow, a teammate rolls in to support you.

Lich OP, rampage oki

i just stealth up and run away :/

I had the misfortune to fight one of these as a D/D Lightning Rod Ele while my Armor of Earth was on CD. I don’t really know how to handle this thing outside of RtL to run away.
Maybe if I had Blinding Ashes, but otherwise I got CC’d into oblivion. The Warrior was running Hammer, so I kinda used up my dodges on his CCs, he went into Rampage and I got destroyed afterwards lol

SlayerSixx.5763:

If you cycle ALL of your defenses as a guard, it still isn’t enough. You have to pray that somehow, a teammate rolls in to support you.

Or maybe wait a few and use terrain to kite? problem solved.

Because guard can outrun a target with permanent swiftness. In fact, only three classes can kite a rampage and even they aren’t guaranteed survival.

look behind you, dodge when you see him use a disable skill. Problem solved. If a rampage warrior is chasing you, you’ve already won by wasting his high CD elite.

If you try to fight him, you’re going to die.

Frenk.5917:

silentnight warrior.2714:

• block – yes
• blind – yes
• go out of sight -yes
• reflect – no, its a melee transformation while lich is ranged
• use the terrain properly – yes

Almost the same counters.

• block? No. 1 very quick autoattack and the block vanishes.
• blind? Same as before.
• go out of sight? LOL nope. Rampage warrior con surely outrun a centaur AND you.
• terrain? Not really. As I pointed out before, the gap-closer + the permaswiftness easily help the rampage getting to you.

I find somewhat manageable to cojnter it with mediguard, but even assuming I havent wasted any of my 3 blinds, 4 block and shelter, the transformation lasts enough to let him kill me.

First 2 only hapens if people dont kite/dodge/evade/port. The movements are prety obvious.
The best way to counter is to port to some place were warrior spend the transformation to reach there. If he stays on spot kill him in range.
The other options are valid, but blind i find the most kittene because it must be timed and not spammed.
But again that is my opinion because i dont find hard to deal with rampage. I have more issues with lich because its ranged.
Anyway i dont mind if ANet nerf rampage. I dont like to have to rely on one elite to be viable.

Sadly have to agree, Rampage is pretty much an “I win” button in most casses, unless you can somehow kite them or run away, which in Spvp is still a win, since they are keeping you off point. And as for corrupting boons as someone said, its pulsing stability, it doesnt work anymore like boon strip used to on the elite. So go ahead, corrupt it once just to be re-applied literally 3 seconds later.

Rampage the only semi-reason to take a warrior in a team but sure let’s nerf dis

Rampage and Lich are fine.

Depending on your profession, you can blind spam, block, evade, and use terrain advantages to avoid the bulk of his attacks, and stunbreak the ones you do get hit by. As for boon removal, it is still viable if you have any idea on how to chain cc’s after removing the stability. Such as on condi necro (when Stability —> Fear was working) I could corrupt stability causing warrior to run in fear, chain another fear, corrupt the next pulsing stability into fear again , and then follow up with more condis and maybe another cc.

Not to mention some elites straight out counter other elites. Such as Plague form making Rampage, Tornadoe, Lich form and such null and void.

And for those still thinking Lich Form is OP, you are either new or still haven’t learned to play the game. In addition to the usual counters such as Elites (like Plague Form and Moa), cc chains (only 1 stack of pulsing stability), focus burst (no healing or defense aside from a single condi clear in Lich), reflects, blind spam, blocks, invuln, and line-of-sight, you can also run one huge circle around the Lich and he will miss every attack due to slow projectile speed. Or hell, just stand in one spot and spam ADADADADADAD.

Seriously guys, at least make an attempt to learn to play. >.<

i love my 8k autos from rampage now
Physical Training ftw

Moa counters everything. Pls nerf moa.

Frenk.5917:

So yeah. The reasons for which Lich-Form is balanced are that you can:

• block
• blind
• go out of sight
• reflect
• use the terrain properly

I agree with all of them. But then, then there’s Rampage. Transform elite skill on 120s CD, which does 20% more damage, has a tremendous amount of CCs and most importantly, it deals TONS of DPS.
By using rampage you gain: access to a lot of powerful control abilities, insane DPS, mobility, immunity to CCs, something very close to immunity to immobilize/chill/cripple, permswiftness and on top of that, tremendous HP pool. So, what are the counters?

Reflects? Nope!
CCs? Nope!
Soft CCs? Nope!
Dps? Nope!
Stab? Nope!
Well then, maybe I guess I can outrun him? You guess, it: nope!

Yes, I am asking for nerfs, in case you didn’t notice. I consider Rampage an “I-win” button. And what’s most irritating is that there are NO counters. Not even run. Just hope to survive thanks to aliens or something.

Everything you just listed,besides reflecting, can also counter rampage.

The majority of Lich forms damage is its AA which can, literally 2 shot people.
no what you want is to Nerf another elite so you have an easier time.

dominik.9721:

Rampage the only semi-reason to take a warrior in a team but sure let’s nerf dis

Even if I would like Rampage to get nerfed, I think that you are right. Rampage is so overpowered that the entire “meta” warrior build relies on it. Nerfing it we wouldn’t see much warriors anymore. But I’d prefer it to be nerfed and other warrior’s toys to be buffed instead.

Just like the engi Nade Barrage: it’s very broken, and the “meta” build relies on it. Once it’ll be fixed, I don’t see many reason to bring as many engi as before in tournies. Still, barrage NEEDS to be fixed.

Shaogin.2679:

Rampage and Lich are fine.

Depending on your profession, you can blind spam, block, evade, and use terrain advantages to avoid the bulk of his attacks, and stunbreak the ones you do get hit by. As for boon removal, it is still viable if you have any idea on how to chain cc’s after removing the stability. Such as on condi necro (when Stability —> Fear was working) I could corrupt stability causing warrior to run in fear, chain another fear, corrupt the next pulsing stability into fear again , and then follow up with more condis and maybe another cc.

Not to mention some elites straight out counter other elites. Such as Plague form making Rampage, Tornadoe, Lich form and such null and void.

And for those still thinking Lich Form is OP, you are either new or still haven’t learned to play the game. In addition to the usual counters such as Elites (like Plague Form and Moa), cc chains (only 1 stack of pulsing stability), focus burst (no healing or defense aside from a single condi clear in Lich), reflects, blind spam, blocks, invuln, and line-of-sight, you can also run one huge circle around the Lich and he will miss every attack due to slow projectile speed. Or hell, just stand in one spot and spam ADADADADADAD.

Seriously guys, at least make an attempt to learn to play. >.<

There are condition necromancers in tournaments?

Haven’t seen any.

And boon corrupts are bugged, Stability doesn’t transform into Fear when corruption is used.

Oh and Warrior’s stances transfer to their Transformation skills like Rampage, unlike, for example, Necro’s Spectrals and Minions. It means that they can at least get 6-9s condition (blind too) immunity when in Rampage. And since Berserker Stance is still odd effect, not Resistance Boon, you can’t counter this immunity.

So, we got a 180s cooldown elite that is FINALY worthy of elite status it seems :p

stof.9341:

So, we got a 180s cooldown elite that is FINALY worthy of elite status it seems :p

No. You need a Warrior to be worthy to pick without Elite.
Elite should be just cherry on top of balanced and useful class on it’s own. Elites shouldn’t be super strong, but should bring some interesting options.

I don’t get it, Rampage always been there and now you going to whine about it?

xbutcherx.3861:

I don’t get it, Rampage always been there and now you going to whine about it?

It got buffed. I guess thats the reason.

Frenk.5917:

So yeah. The reasons for which Lich-Form is balanced are that you can:

• block
• blind
• go out of sight
• reflect
• use the terrain properly

I agree with all of them. But then, then there’s Rampage. Transform elite skill on 120s CD, which does 20% more damage, has a tremendous amount of CCs and most importantly, it deals TONS of DPS.
By using rampage you gain: access to a lot of powerful control abilities, insane DPS, mobility, immunity to CCs, something very close to immunity to immobilize/chill/cripple, permswiftness and on top of that, tremendous HP pool. So, what are the counters?

Reflects? Nope!
CCs? Nope!
Soft CCs? Nope!
Dps? Nope!
Stab? Nope!
Well then, maybe I guess I can outrun him? You guess, it: nope!

Yes, I am asking for nerfs, in case you didn’t notice. I consider Rampage an “I-win” button. And what’s most irritating is that there are NO counters. Not even run. Just hope to survive thanks to aliens or something.

Although i hate using Rampage and seeing warriors tending to rely too much on this skill but IMO Lich is still better , Dat 1200 range AA which can pierce up to 5 targets also that full boon rip + full condi cleanse skill.

Frenk.5917:

So yeah. The reasons for which Lich-Form is balanced are that you can:

• block
• blind
• go out of sight
• reflect
• use the terrain properly

I agree with all of them. But then, then there’s Rampage. Transform elite skill on 120s CD, which does 20% more damage, has a tremendous amount of CCs and most importantly, it deals TONS of DPS.
By using rampage you gain: access to a lot of powerful control abilities, insane DPS, mobility, immunity to CCs, something very close to immunity to immobilize/chill/cripple, permswiftness and on top of that, tremendous HP pool. So, what are the counters?

Reflects? Nope!
CCs? Nope!
Soft CCs? Nope!
Dps? Nope!
Stab? Nope!
Well then, maybe I guess I can outrun him? You guess, it: nope!

Yes, I am asking for nerfs, in case you didn’t notice. I consider Rampage an “I-win” button. And what’s most irritating is that there are NO counters. Not even run. Just hope to survive thanks to aliens or something.

lol funny coming from an engineer, been the most OP class is not enough for you? you don’t want any other class to beat you? I guess grenade barrage is not enough?.

Honestly…L2p instead of crying about an elite that’s FINALLY worth something.
Also,blinds/blocks/stabi/vulnerability/and keeping distance.Don’t pretend like u can’t do a thing vs em,besides you can still melt your condis on em aswell.

Caedmon.6798:

Honestly…L2p instead of crying about an elite that’s FINALLY worth something.
Also,blinds/blocks/stabi/vulnerability/and keeping distance.Don’t pretend like u can’t do a thing vs em,besides you can still melt your condis on em aswell.

Can you really? With 50K hp?

Laraley.7695:

Caedmon.6798:

Honestly…L2p instead of crying about an elite that’s FINALLY worth something.
Also,blinds/blocks/stabi/vulnerability/and keeping distance.Don’t pretend like u can’t do a thing vs em,besides you can still melt your condis on em aswell.

Can you really? With 50K hp?

You know while been in rampage you cannot heal right? 50K goes faster than 24k with healing.

xbutcherx.3861:

Laraley.7695:

Caedmon.6798:

Honestly…L2p instead of crying about an elite that’s FINALLY worth something.
Also,blinds/blocks/stabi/vulnerability/and keeping distance.Don’t pretend like u can’t do a thing vs em,besides you can still melt your condis on em aswell.

Can you really? With 50K hp?

You know while been in rampage you cannot heal right? 50K goes faster than 24k with healing.

Yes, but melt something with 50K hp is not really that easy if you’re in 2v2 with rampage for example.

Laraley.7695:

xbutcherx.3861:

Laraley.7695:

Caedmon.6798:

Honestly…L2p instead of crying about an elite that’s FINALLY worth something.
Also,blinds/blocks/stabi/vulnerability/and keeping distance.Don’t pretend like u can’t do a thing vs em,besides you can still melt your condis on em aswell.

Can you really? With 50K hp?

You know while been in rampage you cannot heal right? 50K goes faster than 24k with healing.

Yes, but melt something with 50K hp is not really that easy if you’re in 2v2 with rampage for example.

A lot faster than trying to drop 24k with healing, you’d be amazed how fast can drop, plus a good warrior will wait until all 3 adrenaline bars are filled in order to use it because of the trait, means by the time a warrior uses the skill his HP will be at 75% already.

Watch this video at 2:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejJjHbjhrGk

rampage is the ace in the zerker warriors sleeve, and a cool trick for the average warrior. it’s ultra telegraphed and very killable. damage isnt even that bad if the warrior isn’t zerk. it’s good, id rather see other elites buffed than see it nerfed. not even sure how you would nerf it? reduce damage i guess, but the damage is only high because the warriors who use it are mostly zerk and you are auto attacking for 2k+ out of rampage so the damage for the elite form doesn’t seem that crazy.

xbutcherx.3861:

Laraley.7695:

xbutcherx.3861:

Laraley.7695:

Caedmon.6798:

Honestly…L2p instead of crying about an elite that’s FINALLY worth something.
Also,blinds/blocks/stabi/vulnerability/and keeping distance.Don’t pretend like u can’t do a thing vs em,besides you can still melt your condis on em aswell.

Can you really? With 50K hp?

You know while been in rampage you cannot heal right? 50K goes faster than 24k with healing.

Yes, but melt something with 50K hp is not really that easy if you’re in 2v2 with rampage for example.

A lot faster than trying to drop 24k with healing, you’d be amazed how fast can drop, plus a good warrior will wait until all 3 adrenaline bars are filled in order to use it because of the trait, means by the time a warrior uses the skill his HP will be at 75% already.

Signet heals 360-400 every second (depending on Amulet), so it will take 55 seconds to provide 20k passive healing from signet as zerker, while thats much longer than Rampage last…

Morwath.9817:

xbutcherx.3861:

Laraley.7695:

xbutcherx.3861:

Laraley.7695:

Caedmon.6798:

Honestly…L2p instead of crying about an elite that’s FINALLY worth something.
Also,blinds/blocks/stabi/vulnerability/and keeping distance.Don’t pretend like u can’t do a thing vs em,besides you can still melt your condis on em aswell.

Can you really? With 50K hp?

You know while been in rampage you cannot heal right? 50K goes faster than 24k with healing.

Yes, but melt something with 50K hp is not really that easy if you’re in 2v2 with rampage for example.

A lot faster than trying to drop 24k with healing, you’d be amazed how fast can drop, plus a good warrior will wait until all 3 adrenaline bars are filled in order to use it because of the trait, means by the time a warrior uses the skill his HP will be at 75% already.

Signet heals 360-400 every second (depending on Amulet), so it will take 55 seconds to provide 20k passive healing from signet as zerker, while thats much longer than Rampage last…

First, warrior not only gets heal from Healing signet.
Second, while on rampage you don’t heal at all
Third, you are asking for nerf for all classes, why? been a ranger sucks?

xbutcherx.3861:

First, warrior not only gets heal from Healing signet.

Obviously.

xbutcherx.3861:

Second, while on rampage you don’t heal at all

Adrenal Healing is triggering in Rampage, even when your Adrenaline bar is hidden.

xbutcherx.3861:

Third, you are asking for nerf for all classes, why? been a ranger sucks?

Not that I’ve written few posts above:
No. You need a Warrior to be worthy to pick without Elite.
Elite should be just cherry on top of balanced and useful class on it’s own. Elites shouldn’t be super strong, but should bring some interesting options.

Morwath.9817:

xbutcherx.3861:

First, warrior not only gets heal from Healing signet.

Obviously.

xbutcherx.3861:

Second, while on rampage you don’t heal at all

Adrenal Healing is triggering in Rampage, even when your Adrenaline bar is hidden.

xbutcherx.3861:

Third, you are asking for nerf for all classes, why? been a ranger sucks?

Not that I’ve written few posts above:
No. You need a Warrior to be worthy to pick without Elite.
Elite should be just cherry on top of balanced and useful class on it’s own. Elites shouldn’t be super strong, but should bring some interesting options.

this argument can literally be used against 80% of the elites in game

lighter.2708:

this argument can literally be used against 80% of the elites in game

Indeed, but we’re discussing Rampage in this thread ;-)
Warriors should ask themselves if they want:
→ superior Rampage while being inferior when it’s on CD;
or
→ good and balanced profession that can do fine with Rampage or any other Elite Skill

lighter.2708:

Morwath.9817:

xbutcherx.3861:

First, warrior not only gets heal from Healing signet.

Obviously.

xbutcherx.3861:

Second, while on rampage you don’t heal at all

Adrenal Healing is triggering in Rampage, even when your Adrenaline bar is hidden.

xbutcherx.3861:

Third, you are asking for nerf for all classes, why? been a ranger sucks?

Not that I’ve written few posts above:
No. You need a Warrior to be worthy to pick without Elite.
Elite should be just cherry on top of balanced and useful class on it’s own. Elites shouldn’t be super strong, but should bring some interesting options.

this argument can literally be used against 80% of the elites in game

That is correct my friend, this is just some ranger that got his kitten kicked because he didn’t know the warrior was on rampage, didn’t know how to run or to dodge.

Morwath.9817:

lighter.2708:

this argument can literally be used against 80% of the elites in game

Indeed, but we’re discussing Rampage in this thread ;-)
Warriors should ask themselves if they want:
-> superior Rampage while being inferior when it’s on CD;
or
-> good and balanced profession that can do fine with Rampage or any other Elite Skill

tbh, first option also sounds good, so it actually takes skill to be worthy out side of rampage. and still have a use in the team.

what’s not so good right now, is they are able to chain shield block with- CD and endure pain and wait for rampage off CD, so if they move shield mastery to master trait and move armored attack to adept, it would be more work for warrior to wait for CD which will justify the rampage usefulness.

and second option, a good balanced zerker warrior does not exist, unless they give them blink and stealth..

The topic started as how rampage better than lich, worth a very short explanation: as a weapon / skill has more range it drops damage, you sacrifice safety for more damage, even tho rampage can hit hard it has to be in melee range, while lich can do 8k+ piercing attack from 1,200 range.

Also don’t wana go into too deeply, but it’s an ELITE skill it’s an ace in your stack ofc it has to do some miracle a player will pop an elite skill to turn the tides, not to remove 3 condition.

I agree other elits need to be buffed / changed tho.

Rampage is supposed to be better than Lich in term of offense because it is melee. There is greater risk for meleeing. However, I do agree that the effectiveness spread between Rampage and Lich is way too wide. 1k+ (at the very least) auto attack damage with 4CCs of short CD is way too much.

Lich is a power mode, but Rampage is outright godmod (now that it also benefits from physical skill traits)