Guild Wars 2

DavyMcB.1603:

Rampage is supposed to be better than Lich in term of offense because it is melee. There is greater risk for meleeing. However, I do agree that the effectiveness spread between Rampage and Lich is way too wide. 1k+ (at the very least) auto attack damage with 4CCs of short CD is way too much.

Lich is a power mode, but Rampage is outright godmod (now that it also benefits from physical skill traits)

Not really, Both of them are strong in there own right, but I wouldnt call either god mode when you can simple move away, reflect, blind,dodge, invuln, use terrain, or kite.

Both have something strong. and both can be countered in pretty much the same ways.

What people have a problem with is that they get caught in these elites, panic, and die for it.
But then again I have been rolling on my necro and engi for the past couple of days.
So a lot of problems with things people see I haven’t been seeing.

hisorange.3957:

The topic started as how rampage better than lich, worth a very short explanation: as a weapon / skill has more range it drops damage, you sacrifice safety for more damage, even tho rampage can hit hard it has to be in melee range, while lich can do 8k+ piercing attack from 1,200 range.

Also don’t wana go into too deeply, but it’s an ELITE skill it’s an ace in your stack ofc it has to do some miracle a player will pop an elite skill to turn the tides, not to remove 3 condition.

I agree other elits need to be buffed / changed tho.

Elites aren’t supposed to be ‘I win buttons’…

Solori.6025:

DavyMcB.1603:

Rampage is supposed to be better than Lich in term of offense because it is melee. There is greater risk for meleeing. However, I do agree that the effectiveness spread between Rampage and Lich is way too wide. 1k+ (at the very least) auto attack damage with 4CCs of short CD is way too much.

Lich is a power mode, but Rampage is outright godmod (now that it also benefits from physical skill traits)

Not really, Both of them are strong in there own right, but I wouldnt call either god mode when you can simple move away, reflect, blind,dodge, invuln, use terrain, or kite.

Both have something strong. and both can be countered in pretty much the same ways.

What people have a problem with is that they get caught in these elites, panic, and die for it.
But then again I have been rolling on my necro and engi for the past couple of days.
So a lot of problems with things people see I haven’t been seeing.

Well, lets be fair here.
I dodge the Warrior’s CC skills, he goes into Rampage and now I have to dodge 3 more CCs, not including the Auto-Attack chain that still deals decent damage.
Comparing this to a Necro’s Lich form that is really only used for the Auto-Attack is a bit inaccurate.
The latter does insane damage, but is far more vulnerable(less Stability, only CC on #3, less mobile, etc.) while the former can do 2 -> 5 -> 4 -> 111 and there’s very little you can do if you get hit by any of the first three moves outside of popping Stun Breakers, which you might have used because you were getting CC-chained by the Warrior’s other skills :L

I’m not calling it OP, but it’s a little unreasonable to deal with sometimes. At least Lich has a projectile I can more easily defend against(LoS, Swirling Winds, Reflects, etc.) and mostly just that.

Malchior.5732:

Solori.6025:

DavyMcB.1603:

Rampage is supposed to be better than Lich in term of offense because it is melee. There is greater risk for meleeing. However, I do agree that the effectiveness spread between Rampage and Lich is way too wide. 1k+ (at the very least) auto attack damage with 4CCs of short CD is way too much.

Lich is a power mode, but Rampage is outright godmod (now that it also benefits from physical skill traits)

Not really, Both of them are strong in there own right, but I wouldnt call either god mode when you can simple move away, reflect, blind,dodge, invuln, use terrain, or kite.

Both have something strong. and both can be countered in pretty much the same ways.

What people have a problem with is that they get caught in these elites, panic, and die for it.
But then again I have been rolling on my necro and engi for the past couple of days.
So a lot of problems with things people see I haven’t been seeing.

Well, lets be fair here.
I dodge the Warrior’s CC skills, he goes into Rampage and now I have to dodge 3 more CCs, not including the Auto-Attack chain that still deals decent damage.
Comparing this to a Necro’s Lich form that is really only used for the Auto-Attack is a bit inaccurate.
The latter does insane damage, but is far more vulnerable(less Stability, only CC on #3, less mobile, etc.) while the former can do 2 -> 5 -> 4 -> 111 and there’s very little you can do if you get hit by any of the first three moves outside of popping Stun Breakers, which you might have used because you were getting CC-chained by the Warrior’s other skills :L

I’m not calling it OP, but it’s a little unreasonable to deal with sometimes. At least Lich has a projectile I can more easily defend against(LoS, Swirling Winds, Reflects, etc.) and mostly just that.

Both of them pulse stability, so I don’t understand the less stability arguement.

The arguement one has more buttons is also pretty bad when the AA from lich does upward of 7-8k and can proc fire and air.

You only have 2 dodges.

One of them is more mobile true, but one of them isn’t ranged either.
At least with the warrior staying out of range you can waste rampage, with Lich it’s be a class with reflects equipped or die?
Understandable that you notice the CC’s but you can in no way say one is better than the other when one ONLY needs an AA to finish you off in two hits from range.

P.S.
If you’re on an elementalist why dont you just blink away?
OR arcane shield…..or obsidian flesh……or vapor form……or tornado blind…….or armor of earth……or FG 3-4……

Solori.6025:

Malchior.5732:

Solori.6025:

DavyMcB.1603:

Rampage is supposed to be better than Lich in term of offense because it is melee. There is greater risk for meleeing. However, I do agree that the effectiveness spread between Rampage and Lich is way too wide. 1k+ (at the very least) auto attack damage with 4CCs of short CD is way too much.

Lich is a power mode, but Rampage is outright godmod (now that it also benefits from physical skill traits)

Not really, Both of them are strong in there own right, but I wouldnt call either god mode when you can simple move away, reflect, blind,dodge, invuln, use terrain, or kite.

Both have something strong. and both can be countered in pretty much the same ways.

What people have a problem with is that they get caught in these elites, panic, and die for it.
But then again I have been rolling on my necro and engi for the past couple of days.
So a lot of problems with things people see I haven’t been seeing.

Well, lets be fair here.
I dodge the Warrior’s CC skills, he goes into Rampage and now I have to dodge 3 more CCs, not including the Auto-Attack chain that still deals decent damage.
Comparing this to a Necro’s Lich form that is really only used for the Auto-Attack is a bit inaccurate.
The latter does insane damage, but is far more vulnerable(less Stability, only CC on #3, less mobile, etc.) while the former can do 2 -> 5 -> 4 -> 111 and there’s very little you can do if you get hit by any of the first three moves outside of popping Stun Breakers, which you might have used because you were getting CC-chained by the Warrior’s other skills :L

I’m not calling it OP, but it’s a little unreasonable to deal with sometimes. At least Lich has a projectile I can more easily defend against(LoS, Swirling Winds, Reflects, etc.) and mostly just that.

Both of them pulse stability, so I don’t understand the less stability arguement.

The arguement one has more buttons is also pretty bad when the AA from lich does upward of 7-8k and can proc fire and air.

You only have 2 dodges.

One of them is more mobile true, but one of them isn’t ranged either.
At least with the warrior staying out of range you can waste rampage, with Lich it’s be a class with reflects equipped or die?
Understandable that you notice the CC’s but you can in no way say one is better than the other when one ONLY needs an AA to finish you off in two hits from range.

Lich has 1 stack of Stab, Rampage has 2 stacks.
One is most definitely easier to strip off than the other.

Also, you only have 2 dodges, but Lich has far slower attacks and LESS options against you. With Lich, you only have to worry about the AA in most cases. That’s actually important because he’s a lot more predictable; the Rampage has an AA-chain, 2,4,and 5 to all watch out for. How is that not important to take into account?

Yes, the Lich does more damage, at the same time, it’s easier to counter a projectile than it is to counter a hulking beast with Swiftness that can CC-chain you into oblivion if you don’t have a Stun Breaker ready(which some classes don’t have a lot of).
All ignoring the fact that Lich form has a higher CD, a lower duration, doesn’t reduce the damage you take, and also doesn’t reduce the duration of Cripple, Chill, etc(the only direct “counter” to mobility) while also applying less stacks of Stability.

“P.S.
If you’re on an elementalist why dont you just blink away?
OR arcane shield…..or obsidian flesh……or vapor form……or tornado blind…….or armor of earth……or FG 3-4……”

Assuming I run 3x Cantrips(which Eles are pretty much forced to take anyway, I guess), then running away is my only option. Arcane Shield has a 75s CD, not a good idea.
Obsidian Flesh assumes Focus, Mist Form is again the same as running away, Tornado will get you killed more often than not, Armor of Earth is 60s CD when traited, FGS is also just running away.

Basically, running away from the fight is my only real option then? Armor of Earth only lasts for a little bit, and after that, my only real Stun Breaker is Mist Form.
Lich is difficult to deal with too, but you’re just highlighting the fact that these Elites are “I win” buttons that should ideally be changed. Personally, I can deal with a Lich in a 1v1 scenario, but a Rampage is much harder to handle.

If the excuse that rampage is an elite and it deserves that strength, I want such game breaking elites for guard as well. Renewed focus should lose its invuln and remove virtue CD for a whole ten seconds so the virtues can be spammed like no tomorrow. How about them apples? Unlimited blocking, 25 stacks of might, tons of regen, stacking 100 stacks of stab for 10 minutes, stacking 10 minutes of prot. How about that? You cant complain about how you cant CC or DPS the guard because he’s slow and has no range, but he can hold points forever and give everyone the finger.

Condi. Apply it thoroughly. That is all.

SlayerSixx.5763:

If the excuse that rampage is an elite and it deserves that strength, I want such game breaking elites for guard as well. Renewed focus should lose its invuln and remove virtue CD for a whole ten seconds so the virtues can be spammed like no tomorrow. How about them apples? Unlimited blocking, 25 stacks of might, tons of regen, stacking 100 stacks of stab for 10 minutes, stacking 10 minutes of prot. How about that? You cant complain about how you cant CC or DPS the guard because he’s slow and has no range, but he can hold points forever and give everyone the finger.

No you don’t our elites are just fine, asking for a broken elite is asking for being put on the nerfing block. RF is a great elite already, SoC is good for turning fights around and FMW is a kitten good elite for support too. Though as far as Rampage goes…I’m going to admit it hurts pretty bad right now, but that’s just because it has a trait now.

A broken elite to face a broken elite. Fair, no?

Lucentfir.7430:

SlayerSixx.5763:

If the excuse that rampage is an elite and it deserves that strength, I want such game breaking elites for guard as well. Renewed focus should lose its invuln and remove virtue CD for a whole ten seconds so the virtues can be spammed like no tomorrow. How about them apples? Unlimited blocking, 25 stacks of might, tons of regen, stacking 100 stacks of stab for 10 minutes, stacking 10 minutes of prot. How about that? You cant complain about how you cant CC or DPS the guard because he’s slow and has no range, but he can hold points forever and give everyone the finger.

No you don’t our elites are just fine, asking for a broken elite is asking for being put on the nerfing block. RF is a great elite already, SoC is good for turning fights around and FMW is a kitten good elite for support too. Though as far as Rampage goes…I’m going to admit it hurts pretty bad right now, but that’s just because it has a trait now.

Plague has a trait too now.

SlayerSixx.5763:

A broken elite to face a broken elite. Fair, no?

Ramapage and lich can be countered by other transformation skills like more Moa. RF is good enough to help buy you time. Guards just don’t have anything like rampage, and asking for something broken just because one class has it is silly.

@Sagat – yeah but you just don’t see it hitting people for 5k AAs and CC xD

Lucentfir.7430:

SlayerSixx.5763:

A broken elite to face a broken elite. Fair, no?

Ramapage and lich can be countered by other transformation skills like more Moa. RF is good enough to help buy you time. Guards just don’t have anything like rampage, and asking for something broken just because one class has it is silly.

I like the new elite shout on my guard… especially when another guard is beside me running it and we have some other high dps with us. It’s like having mesmer perma-timewarp (shhh).

In pug pvp, I have rampage transform as a warrior… never pop it against a necro, mesmer, or elixir engi. It’s just wasting a cd.

In a coordinated team, not using it. SoR or BStd.

Lucentfir.7430:

SlayerSixx.5763:

A broken elite to face a broken elite. Fair, no?

Ramapage and lich can be countered by other transformation skills like more Moa. RF is good enough to help buy you time. Guards just don’t have anything like rampage, and asking for something broken just because one class has it is silly.

@Sagat – yeah but you just don’t see it hitting people for 5k AAs and CC xD

It only hits for that amount if you’re full zerk.Besides a warri don’t usually randomly pops it in any fight he can,Cd is still a thing,and the right time to use it as it goes for lich.And like you said Moa completely kills it.Honestly ive done lots of duels lately vs other warrs,urging them to use rampage in the duels we had.I Urge you to do the same so you can all know how to counter it or what to do or how to stay at range etc etc..This cry for a nerf isn’t right.

Amityel.5324:

FlawlezZ.3178:

you can use mesmer signet (with 180 seconds cd tho)

144 if traited so ye it can be counter for wars rampage

wasting a moa for something you can dodge and kite all day?

cool

Archaon.9524:

Amityel.5324:

FlawlezZ.3178:

you can use mesmer signet (with 180 seconds cd tho)

144 if traited so ye it can be counter for wars rampage

wasting a moa for something you can dodge and kite all day?

cool

I don’t see that as a waste though,if the warri pops rampage he usually does it when all his utulites are on cd..or simply when needs the added hp – toughness etc .Immediately locking him into moa when he just used rampage can be a killer for him at that time, + youre throwing his biggest elite on cd ( as yours,i know ),it can completely mess him up considering the situation he’s in at that time.