Guild Wars 2

These need changing.

Specifically, the stability portion of these skills.

That is all.

totally agree . . . god mode for very long time . . maybe increase cd or reduce skill time.

are you for real?…. disenguage for 25 to 30 seconds… then melt them. If you’re trying to best them in this state…. L2P

no, both these skills were well kitten broken for more than 2 years and have been finally fixed, and are working well as intended.

no further changes are necessary.

thank you.

Peutrifectus.4830:

are you for real?…. disenguage for 25 to 30 seconds… then melt them. If you’re trying to best them in this state…. L2P

The age old argument. “just run away.”

Take the form of a massive juggernaut, reducing the damage you take and the duration of incoming movement-impeding conditions.

Miscellaneous effect.png Damage Reduced: 25%
Stability 40px.png3 Stability: 3 s
Swiftness 40px.png Swiftness: 3 s
Immobilized.png Immobilize: Unable to move.
Crippled.png Cripple: -50% Movement Speed
Chilled.png Chilled: -66% Movement Speed, -66% Skill Recharge Rate
Radius.png Boon Application Interval: 3 seconds
Miscellaneous effect.png Duration Decrease: 33%
Duration.png Duration: 20 s

Dash (Rampage)

Charge your foe.
6sec cd

Damage Damage: 365
Combo.png Combo Finisher: Leap
Range.png Range: 1,000

Has a 1000 yard homing knockdown on a 6 second cooldown.
Is immune to CC and immobilize and very close to immune from crippled if dogged march is traited (which it always is), takes 25% less damage and boosts the warriors hp up to about 30-35k.

I use rampage in my Condition build and i get crits upwards of 4k+ with no might, no “damage increased on stunned targets” traits, with a rabid amulet.

This isn’t balanced.

“It was broken for 2 years, it’s allowed to be stupidly strong now.”

Yet another dumb argument.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

no, both these skills were well kitten broken for more than 2 years and have been finally fixed, and are working well as intended.

no further changes are necessary.

thank you.

Let’s see where you post.. Spvp and Warrior forums, your opinion isn’t biased at all.

Rampage is completely out of control. don’t mind lich, you can actually dodge the projectiles or run away. Rampage has too many gap closers and hits for insane amounts. it’s an I-Win button for bads, and in the hands of a skilled player is OP.

I want tornado to reach the same potential of rampage and lich form…only tornado was useless even before launch lol

Stability is fine, only damage (especially for lich autoattack) is a little too much imho.

This is such a joke, do you realize how squishy necros have to be all match for lich form to be good? Also rampage makes it so warriors have less movement around the map without having to give up other needed utility skills. Also let me point out today vs a guardian he literally blocked all my attacks while in rampage form. He used his focus blocks with aegis with shelter and his elite which was renewed focus. Literally my rampage did nothing since he was waiting for it.

I love the community ability to literally complain about everything. Seriously turrets are basically dead, you cant use supply crate for anything now in group fights. You get what class is most worthless or worst topics and literally everyone has a different answer. Seriously lich form can even get moa, and rampage is only useful if your build has no stability, cant blind, and if the player puts some power in his build.

I find the many choose what happens to the meta since there in ability to learn how to fight vs other classes/skills/ change there own build. Lets blame anet for rangers ranging freely or the nade engy just free casting since everyone has to fight in the circle with there glassy build. Jeez lets forget that certain builds can have great roles in the game but no lets generalize classes as a whole such as these skills.

It’s called L2 abuse z-axis teleport, l2 Line of Sight. Slick Shoes, Blind Spam, Weakness, Aegis, Jumping Puzzle.

It’s really pathetic that people can’t even L2P against something that is legit L2P.

If you want to complain about something, complain about frame-eaters like Slick Shoes or D/D Ele. Don’t fix something that isn’t broken.

Oh and it’s not like Rampage and Lich Form is instant cast, interrupt them before they use it? Or make it so that they don’t wanna use it? Not to mention when they DO get into Rampage and Lich form, you can literally just tank them if you were good, which you aren’t.

BlackTruth.6813:

It’s called L2 abuse z-axis teleport, l2 Line of Sight. Slick Shoes, Blind Spam, Weakness, Aegis, Jumping Puzzle.

It’s really pathetic that people can’t even L2P against something that is legit L2P.

If you want to complain about something, complain about frame-eaters like Slick Shoes or D/D Ele. Don’t fix something that isn’t broken.

Oh and it’s not like Rampage and Lich Form is instant cast, interrupt them before they use it? Or make it so that they don’t wanna use it? Not to mention when they DO get into Rampage and Lich form, you can literally just tank them if you were good, which you aren’t.

I’m so tired of everyone saying how d/d ele is broken. Does it need to be nerfed to ground for people to be finally quiet?

And your argument ‘’you can interrupt it’’ is completely irrelevant as they can use it in a few seconds again.

Laraley.7695:

BlackTruth.6813:

It’s called L2 abuse z-axis teleport, l2 Line of Sight. Slick Shoes, Blind Spam, Weakness, Aegis, Jumping Puzzle.

It’s really pathetic that people can’t even L2P against something that is legit L2P.

If you want to complain about something, complain about frame-eaters like Slick Shoes or D/D Ele. Don’t fix something that isn’t broken.

Oh and it’s not like Rampage and Lich Form is instant cast, interrupt them before they use it? Or make it so that they don’t wanna use it? Not to mention when they DO get into Rampage and Lich form, you can literally just tank them if you were good, which you aren’t.

I’m so tired of everyone saying how d/d ele is broken. Does it need to be nerfed to ground for people to be finally quiet?

And your argument ‘’you can interrupt it’’ is completely irrelevant as they can use it in a few seconds again.

No but it still needs to be nerfed a bit, same with cele engie.

Also honestly rampage isn’t really that broken but i wouldn’t be against them increasing the cd time. I’ve seen people pop when they were about to lose in 1v1s and then have it up by the end of their next fight.

Although if a warrior and a necro pop those forms in 1v1 you should consider it a good thing because they might not have it in a team fight where it is actually useful.

The way I handle rampage and lich form at the moment is either to kite them around stuff or better yet if Im playing with friends we just target the war/necro and burst him down really quickly. A ton of people who use rampage and lich think its an instant win button and wont even bother to dodge until they realize they have barely any health left.

people need to learn to play this game really. Look what happened to turret engies nerfed to the ground killing a build completely, top players didn’t even have problems against turrets, anet should stop listening to the casual crowd.

tico.9814:

people need to learn to play this game really. Look what happened to turret engies nerfed to the ground killing a build completely, top players didn’t even have problems against turrets, anet should stop listening to the casual crowd.

turrets were too rewarding… it gave bad players 0 motivation to get better

i have no issues with lich form besides getting hit through the wall, because logic~

rampage is different story, as said before, too much moblity for such high dmg and literary no way to control war in rampage atm

If you had one of the following:

- one mesmer
- one thief

on your team, then lich and rampage are non issues. If not, get one.

Cynz.9437:

rampage is different story, as said before, too much moblity for such high dmg and literary no way to control war in rampage atm

You have to consider that warriors have to give up one of the best team fight abilities in the game (battle standard) in order to take rampage. Frankly, rampage seems a bit underwhelming in comparison.

Stability on these skills should be set to pulse on longer intervals, not every 3 secs. 3 seconds is too little time to enable any counterplay by removing stability and cc’ing.

At least double the pulse time to 6 secs and double the boons gained to compensate.

Lich form atm is more of a liability then anything. Its true it is VERY strong can change the flow of a battle completely if played perfectly but the amount of reflect, inv and the lack of any real defense in Lich form makes the form not very affective. Rampage is a whole different monster and since I don’t use it or get stomped by it too much I won’t comment on it. My opinion leave Lich as is or make it more proactive. Personally when I transform to Lich I feel like I’m in a cage and all I can do is TRY to land #1.

Rampage is good but totally not op, out of the 3 builds I use in PvP, only one of them use rampage. You’d think it’d be a no brainer choice if it was that good.

About lich, they’re still fairly squishy and immobile, and they loses all their fear while becoming huge, which is basically like screaming “ME ! ME ! KILL ME !” in teamfights. Not too hard to outplay in a 1v1 either as long as you can los.

Yeah both are fine in the current meta, can be countered by moa or kiting, and both have stronger alternatives in Plague form and Warbanner.

BlackTruth.6813:

It’s called L2 abuse z-axis teleport, l2 Line of Sight. Slick Shoes, Blind Spam, Weakness, Aegis, Jumping Puzzle.

It’s really pathetic that people can’t even L2P against something that is legit L2P.

If you want to complain about something, complain about frame-eaters like Slick Shoes or D/D Ele. Don’t fix something that isn’t broken.

Oh and it’s not like Rampage and Lich Form is instant cast, interrupt them before they use it? Or make it so that they don’t wanna use it? Not to mention when they DO get into Rampage and Lich form, you can literally just tank them if you were good, which you aren’t.

LOL @ you for defending those two things and complaining about engies constantly.

What if Lich, Rampage, and the other transforms were changed similar to Guardian tomes? Most of them are used for only one thing, so if you can make that one thing onto an active it is pretty easy to make them normal skills.

Ex: make Lich form a significant damage boost for 20s, with pulsing stability like right now, and then have the #5 skill as a second active once you’ve used Lich. That is everything Lich is currently used for (except range), but can be counterplayed much better, and removes a lot of the annoying parts of Lich for each person (damage can be toned down a little, will require landing skills like normal, just hitting harder but the Necro actually gets to use their skills).

They might be changing anways. They are changing tomes to a shout/signet. Lich will likely be remade into a strong spectral skill and plague into a corruption.

As a Necro, I actually do think the idea of a 1 spam hero is zzzz. If they become strong buffs and don’t block our baseline abilities, and enhance them instead, it could be much better for everyone involved.

The only change I think needs to happen is the options to get out of the way of each. Either Lich throwing crap at you or dash where the warrior charges you.

Both are fine and dandy except when either of those changes direction 90 degrees because I shadow stepped out of the way of it as I was out of dodges or something.

Thats just straight BS. Both should be juked when I shadow step to the side, but this is not just these this is a whole lot of skills including ranger Rapid Fire.

I find that Rampage and Lich fall under a different category really…

Lich is incredibly bad designed, sorry for saying, but the emphasis of the damage being on the first skill without any thought makes it boring to play as, and frustrating to fight against… You can counter it, do not get me wrong, but gameplay wise it is incredibly boring… Most people do not even understand that the 5th skill is one to use as well at times

Rampage however is a bit different… All skills on the bar are extremely situational and are well thought out in my opinion… I honestly think that this elite is balanced rather well

kdaddy.5431:

This is such a joke, do you realize how squishy necros have to be all match for lich form to be good? Also rampage makes it so warriors have less movement around the map without having to give up other needed utility skills. Also let me point out today vs a guardian he literally blocked all my attacks while in rampage form. He used his focus blocks with aegis with shelter and his elite which was renewed focus. Literally my rampage did nothing since he was waiting for it.

I love the community ability to literally complain about everything. Seriously turrets are basically dead, you cant use supply crate for anything now in group fights. You get what class is most worthless or worst topics and literally everyone has a different answer. Seriously lich form can even get moa, and rampage is only useful if your build has no stability, cant blind, and if the player puts some power in his build.

I find the many choose what happens to the meta since there in ability to learn how to fight vs other classes/skills/ change there own build. Lets blame anet for rangers ranging freely or the nade engy just free casting since everyone has to fight in the circle with there glassy build. Jeez lets forget that certain builds can have great roles in the game but no lets generalize classes as a whole such as these skills.

I was turned into Moa bird 2 times last game right after I used rampage.

both are very outplayable, but punish like a long cooldown elite should. bad elites need buffs, the good ones dont need nerfs. most elite skills are underpowered, so with all these elite specialisations having good elites many will become no brained.

Its not fair! Rampager can stomp while Lich cant! Not tomention huge animation for lich while easy to miss rampager!!! Lich actualy needs buff compared to rampager. This logic.
Edit:+ harder to kill rampagers are.

Bhawb.7408:

What if Lich, Rampage, and the other transforms were changed similar to Guardian tomes? Most of them are used for only one thing, so if you can make that one thing onto an active it is pretty easy to make them normal skills.

Ex: make Lich form a significant damage boost for 20s, with pulsing stability like right now, and then have the #5 skill as a second active once you’ve used Lich. That is everything Lich is currently used for (except range), but can be counterplayed much better, and removes a lot of the annoying parts of Lich for each person (damage can be toned down a little, will require landing skills like normal, just hitting harder but the Necro actually gets to use their skills).

I really like this idea.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

I find that Rampage and Lich fall under a different category really…

Lich is incredibly bad designed, sorry for saying, but the emphasis of the damage being on the first skill without any thought makes it boring to play as, and frustrating to fight against… You can counter it, do not get me wrong, but gameplay wise it is incredibly boring… Most people do not even understand that the 5th skill is one to use as well at times

Rampage however is a bit different… All skills on the bar are extremely situational and are well thought out in my opinion… I honestly think that this elite is balanced rather well

I agree. I don’t hate Lich, but it’s really boring to just see some1 pop a couple of the 2-5 skills and then just press 1 from range. Meanwhile on Rampage every skill has a huge tell and the damage it causes comes from landing all of them. The 1 skill hits hard but is also melee range.

Peutrifectus.4830:

are you for real?…. disenguage for 25 to 30 seconds… then melt them. If you’re trying to best them in this state…. L2P

lolol. You clearly don’t play PvP. In PvP, there are these things called cap points. Try playing a game and see what happens when you don’t hold any of them.

Instead of telling people to L2P, you might want to actually learn the game mode first.

There’s plenty of time before HoT, play Power Necro for a week or two, and then come back to this ‘OP thread’ and comment again. With the limited mobility/disengage, the only players I can see making a genuine complaint are other necrosis tbh.

As for Rampage, eh, it is what it is. At least all their other ridiculous cooldowns are inefective for the time being.

*necros…stupid tablet :/

The biggest issue with Rampage is the perma Stability.

How in the name of Melandru’s first born do be counter it when they’re channeling the Soul’s Hero buff in Stronghold? So. Frustrating.

Roe.3679:

Bhawb.7408:

What if Lich, Rampage, and the other transforms were changed similar to Guardian tomes? Most of them are used for only one thing, so if you can make that one thing onto an active it is pretty easy to make them normal skills.

Ex: make Lich form a significant damage boost for 20s, with pulsing stability like right now, and then have the #5 skill as a second active once you’ve used Lich. That is everything Lich is currently used for (except range), but can be counterplayed much better, and removes a lot of the annoying parts of Lich for each person (damage can be toned down a little, will require landing skills like normal, just hitting harder but the Necro actually gets to use their skills).

I really like this idea.

Excellent. Power Necro approves. Just give us a skill with stability that brings our Power up to 4k+.

#happycamper

Saiyan.1704:

The biggest issue with Rampage is the perma Stability.

How in the name of Melandru’s first born do be counter it when they’re channeling the Soul’s Hero buff in Stronghold? So. Frustrating.

Terrormancer. Strip the stability right after it pulses, then immediately Fear. I’m pretty sure that even once the Stab is reapplied it does not remove the fear. Also, Moa.

Having played against and with Rampage, I feel like they have just tipped it into “a bit too strong” stage. It doesn’t actually have ANY counter. You can’t kite it (swiftness + -66% duration on cripple/chill/immob for 90% of warrior builds with dogged march), you can’t burst it b/c of naturally high toughness and the tons of vit it gives, you can’t cc it b/c 3 stacks pulsing stab, you can’t get away from it b/c of all the movement skills.

Plus, the damage it does is still high.

I would like to see them (pick 1-2):
1. Reduce the stab to 1 stack (it will still be super-strong regardless)
2. Remove the swiftness of cripple/chill/immob reduction
3. Remove the +Vit
4. Tone down the damage a bit
5. Increase the CD a bunch
6. Make the stab pulse much less frequently (every 5-7s) instead

But then again my perspective my be off b/c I play squishier specs that get dumped on by this ability.

Also, as other have stated, it pretty much negates all the true counterplay to hero-channels in stronghold. Perhaps boon-stripping will be much more prevalent in HoT, but at current levels there is MUCH too little to truly combat the stab.

Saying rampage doesn’t actually have any counter is just ignorant and inaccurate. You’re saying z-axis and blind spam doesn’t? Sigh.

And before people say Zerker stance to rampage makes it impossible to counter it, why don’t you bait out zerker stance way before he rampages? And if does reach the stage of zerk stance rampage, why don’t you abuse z-axis and jumping puzzle? Just god.

People cry about not being able to beat the hell out of someone being in their super-sayan mode for a limited time.

Just chill your face, run and dance around another cap-point and grin back at the wasted lichform/rampager, knowing how sadly long their CD is.

sendmark.4731:

Yeah both are fine in the current meta, can be countered by kiting

Rampage has strong CC, gap closers, reduced duration on movement impairing effects, and 3 stability every 3 seconds. It makes it really hard to kite. Blind spam works, but not everyone can do that.

The main problem people have Lich comes from the Chill of Death proc and Close to Death. If you’re under 50%, a single hit with procs will kill you or almost kill you.

BlackTruth.6813:

Saying rampage doesn’t actually have any counter is just ignorant and inaccurate. You’re saying z-axis and blind spam doesn’t? Sigh.

And before people say Zerker stance to rampage makes it impossible to counter it, why don’t you bait out zerker stance way before he rampages? And if does reach the stage of zerk stance rampage, why don’t you abuse z-axis and jumping puzzle? Just god.

you can’t blind rampage with zerker… how would you force someone to use zerker before rampage (would you kindly use zerker before rampage please? ty)?… z-axis isn’t always a choice (see foefire) especially considering how war can throw a boulder at you that knocks you down for ages

Just MOA the Warrior with rampage, or blind him, or kite him, or port away, or strip stability and burst him.
Some matches i can´t even finish the transformation (stability striped and then CC/burst down).

silentnight warrior.2714:

Just MOA the Warrior with rampage, or blind him, or kite him, or port away, or strip stability and burst him.
Some matches i can´t even finish the transformation (stability striped and then CC/burst down).

can moa only if mesmer; can’t blind him if he is in zerker; port away doesn’t always work (see foefire) besides you are giving up point; stripping stab is pointless as it is reapplied

The damage and stability together is ridiculous. Are you really telling me that in a game based on holding points what I should do is run away for half a minute? Necros are weakish in the current meta but that doesn’t justify this. Boost the class nerf the crap.

brannigan.9831:

The damage and stability together is ridiculous. Are you really telling me that in a game based on holding points what I should do is run away for half a minute? Necros are weakish in the current meta but that doesn’t justify this. Boost the class nerf the crap.

As a Necro, I’m hoping plague and Lich form will get the same treatment tomes did.

brannigan.9831:

The damage and stability together is ridiculous. Are you really telling me that in a game based on holding points what I should do is run away for half a minute? Necros are weakish in the current meta but that doesn’t justify this. Boost the class nerf the crap.

Possible Solutions:

Team co-ordinate a burst on the Lich as he has zero defenses. One of two things will occur:
1) The necro drops lich to try and stay alive and the damage is negated.
2) The lich is droped and the damage is negated.

Since the stability provided by Lich is 1 second every 3 seconds, it is very easy for multiple classes co-ordinating their CC to also stun lock the Lich also negating all of his damage. Remember, that Stability is not a stunbreak, even if it is reapplied he will still be CC’d until it wears off which gives you ample time to strip the new stability and repeat the process.

Use LoS to avoid the pew pew. You can do this on various maps will never fully disengaging the Lich. While the Lich will likely still be contending the point, the point remains that the while the necromancer was alive he was likely already going to be doing that. Since as mentioned above the Necromancer has no defenses, any form of damage pressure is going to be health he cannot regain while in Lich Form.

If the Necro just blew his 180 second cooldown to beat you in a 1v1, disengage go help your team in a team fight and return to murder the necro. Chances are if he had to use his elite to win the 1v1, now that’s on cool down for the next 3 minutes you should be able to kill him and recap the point before much damage is done.

Lastly Lich is not half a minute. It is 20 seconds. Kind of a nit pick at this point, but still pertinent, as it’s 1/3 of a minute.

1. Both lich and berserk dont have condi cleanse/way to heal up, even du,b warrior signet is not working in this form.

2 ITS 3 STABILITY per 3 sec. As a thief i just STEAL stability (they cant aply any other buff to themselfs in this form) and kill them fast/ same goes for any class that can remove boon like 3rd skill on GSmesmer.
Even funnier is fact 3 stability is nothing, 1 engi can burn it in 1 sec with SShoes… I think thier dmg should be tooned down but stability is good for it. WHY would you sacrifice elite slot to transform to something that can be CCed/Cannot cleans and heal, thats just plain stupid

Lich doesn’t get 3 stability per 3, its 1, not sure about Rampage.

Mefiq.7039:

WHY would you sacrifice elite slot to transform to something that can be CCed/Cannot cleans and heal, thats just plain stupid

The alternative is slotting Flesh Golem.