Guild Wars 2

This is out of hand, Im not even playing a full zerker set up and i got hit with nearly 10k damage from 1 auto attack on staff.

the part that annoys me the most is there is no counterplay to it.

Gotta love downstate air/fire/spinal shivers while yah try to stomp.

I agree. Those random proc needs to go. Increase the base damage of the ability, then remove those random proc.

Make the game more fun, timing based, not proc based. Proc is bad.

I wish I took a screen shot but I got hit by a 6k spinal Shiver. 1.5k necrotic grasp 1.3k Air 1k fire and then another air for 1k…. the other air I think he was running runes of air maybe? Im not sure. they were consecutive

Rune of air has a chance to proc when somebody is attacking you, and its a 20 second CD. Seems fine to me.

I love when people cry about the easiest class to kill in the game. (Power Necro)

Anet has stated themselves, that necromancer are supposed to dish out tons of damage at the expense of their mobility required to keep up with other classes. I’d love to know what spec/build you were playing. Seriously, if you want to complain about procs, do it. But don’t bring necromancer into this, because if this is a problem, its a collective problem. Spinal shivers is reward for the risk a necro takes to come face to face with you and get you to 50% HP.

Don’t bring up necro downstate anymore because its getting a 25% damage nerf. Irrelevant things are irrelevant.

They could make Spinal Shivers not able to crit, like steal and then you wouldn’t get the SS + Air + Fire combo. I think it could help at least a bit, but ye it’s what i hate about power necros. The procs are too strong. It’s especially even more annoying that once you get them down, they might as well kill you in their downstate.

This game has been based around passive sigil procs since april 15th basically

Guys, let’s make a powerful ability with a 1.25sec cast time an instant-cast proc with a 20sec cooldown. It’ll be fine!

Exedore.6320:

Guys, let’s make a powerful ability with a 1.25sec cast time an instant-cast proc with a 20sec cooldown. It’ll be fine!

This^ so much this^^^^

Yeah… I don’t really want them to NERF NECROS INTO THE GROUND like they did in the past, buuuut…. when I kill someone accidentally with a locust touching them while they’re standing behind me and have it explode on them with fire + air + spinal shivers and neither of us knows what just happened, that does seem pretty messed up lol. It could use a little adjusting. :P

Kako.1930:

Yeah… I don’t really want them to NERF NECROS INTO THE GROUND like they did in the past, buuuut…. when I kill someone accidentally with a locust touching them while they’re standing behind me and have it explode on them with fire + air + spinal shivers and neither of us knows what just happened, that does seem pretty messed up lol. It could use a little adjusting. :P

I agree completely. Nobody is complaining that “power necro does too much damage.” I don’t even call them power necro, I think the proper name is “Proc necro” b/c they rely almost completely on random procs to spike someone.

This is true for air/fire as well. It is really stupid when the littlest fart can blow you up due to auto-procs. Further, these auto-procs carry no risk/reward as they are GUARANTEED damage. It’s not like you can even random-dodge their application.

But honestly, that is what gw2 pvp is all about nowadays: instant-casts, auto-procs, and invulns/blocks.

Kako.1930:

Yeah… I don’t really want them to NERF NECROS INTO THE GROUND like they did in the past, buuuut…. when I kill someone accidentally with a locust touching them while they’re standing behind me and have it explode on them with fire + air + spinal shivers and neither of us knows what just happened, that does seem pretty messed up lol. It could use a little adjusting. :P

I see where you are coming from but you have to see the grand scheme of things. How often does that actually happened?

Before necromancer receive this damage nerf you are all talking about, the base class needs to be buffed to make up for it, maybe without procs. But necromancer in its current state is not ready to take a damage nerf. Surely you understand that thieves and mesmers and rangers and medi guards do a necros job better? And the ranger from almost 2000 range??

Jelzouki.4128:

Kako.1930:

Yeah… I don’t really want them to NERF NECROS INTO THE GROUND like they did in the past, buuuut…. when I kill someone accidentally with a locust touching them while they’re standing behind me and have it explode on them with fire + air + spinal shivers and neither of us knows what just happened, that does seem pretty messed up lol. It could use a little adjusting. :P

I see where you are coming from but you have to see the grand scheme of things. How often does that actually happened?

Before necromancer receive this damage nerf you are all talking about, the base class needs to be buffed to make up for it, maybe without procs. But necromancer in its current state is not ready to take a damage nerf. Surely you understand that thieves and mesmers and rangers and medi guards do a necros job better? And the ranger from almost 2000 range??

I think this is what most people are asking for. Take away spinal shivers, and give them more consistent on abilities that have cast-times. Make auto-attacks do +50% damage, or make interrupts inflict the spinal shivers proc (so at least its more skillful). Air/Fire need a rework (and all random procs) so that they require actual skillful application and aren’t fire and forget.

Necro would be a joke if chill of death were just removed. You should be advocating for more balanced classes instead of straight removing these things.

I’ve played well over a thousand games on my power necro and I would be 100% fine with removing chill of death if the class was actually compensated for it, but just railing against one strong feature on a weak class feels a lot like QQ without accompanying suggestions.

Here’s an idea, when you see yourself getting to 50% health agaisnt a necro apply weakness to the kittening necro. Or use a block or whatever it’s not kittening random so I wish people would stop trying to say it’s kittening random when theives are allowed to pop out of kittening nowhere hit for 11k and then teleport away to decap a point. But yeah the thing with no active defense, no scaling defense is totally broken.

As roe said it’s literally all we have right now. So stop complaining.

BlackBeard.2873:

Make auto-attacks do +50% damage

This is actually a bad idea because necro dagger autoattack is the third highest dps autoattack in the game, after lightning whip and warrior axe auto. Except warrior axe auto is super back loaded, so practically, necro dagger auto is currently the second-highest dps auto attack in the game.

I do agree on buffing other areas of the necro such as active defenses though.

While I can agree with the point that Sigils of Fire and Air are kinda silly, Chill of Death really isn’t. It’s highly predictable and, while somewhat unavoidable (you could, you know, heal and prevent it from ever proccing), you can also counterplay by doing the following:

1. put Weakness on the Necro.
2. Limit your boon application as you approach 50%. After Spinal Shivers procs, you can go hog-wild again.
3. Strip the Necro’s Might (not the most common option, admittedly).

By the way, applying Protection doesn’t help, because that is one of the top three boons in Spinal Shivers removal priorities. The more you know…

BlackBeard.2873:

Jelzouki.4128:

Kako.1930:

Yeah… I don’t really want them to NERF NECROS INTO THE GROUND like they did in the past, buuuut…. when I kill someone accidentally with a locust touching them while they’re standing behind me and have it explode on them with fire + air + spinal shivers and neither of us knows what just happened, that does seem pretty messed up lol. It could use a little adjusting. :P

I see where you are coming from but you have to see the grand scheme of things. How often does that actually happened?

Before necromancer receive this damage nerf you are all talking about, the base class needs to be buffed to make up for it, maybe without procs. But necromancer in its current state is not ready to take a damage nerf. Surely you understand that thieves and mesmers and rangers and medi guards do a necros job better? And the ranger from almost 2000 range??

I think this is what most people are asking for. Take away spinal shivers, and give them more consistent on abilities that have cast-times.

I’m gonna’ go out on a limb and say you’ve never played a Necro in PvP. The class is already bogged down with overly long cast times, providing a field day for CC (It’s why the phrase “Necro ping-pong” exists, also little stability). The difference between Chill of Death (Spinal Shivers proc) is that it is an investment in your build, and Sigils are a simple one-click several thousand damage proccing machine outside of build investment. That is a horrible imbalance.

I have no problems with changing (Or removing) the Runes/Sigils system in PvP, even if it “gimps” the damage of Necros, or any other class for that matter. If fights end up lasting longer, so be it. But those fights will be more skill based, with less RNG involved.

Give Necromancer any other option to be partly okay in this crazy meta, they will take it over wellspam anyday.

Untill then, proc wars. Not like Necromancer is the only one here.

Rym.1469:

Give Necromancer any other option to be partly okay in this crazy meta, they will take it over wellspam anyday.

Untill then, proc wars. Not like Necromancer is the only one here.

Lol this is exactly how I feel too.

Chill of Death is a crutch power nec has to lean on to be even semi viable.

I like the trait but air and fire procc’s make this sometimes feel too random. Air and fire also make some other zerk builds dish out crazy random spikes.

its not like the necro power dmg would be bad compared to other classes even without chill of death. The active defense is the problem and i dont think any necro would want to keep chill of death in its current state when he could get a viable active defense instead.

All this talk about nerfing a already weak class wont help us cause noone wants to nerf the necro but to change some stupid traits and mechanics to something better.

the funny thing about Chill of death is that it would be a super strong trait even without the damage. And it would be a super strong trait without the boon remove.

#No unavoidable Dmg Procs
#No RNG in fights

Weez.6315:

its not like the necro power dmg would be bad compared to other classes even without chill of death. The active defense is the problem and i dont think any necro would want to keep chill of death in its current state when he could get a viable active defense instead.

All this talk about nerfing a already weak class wont help us cause noone wants to nerf the necro but to change some stupid traits and mechanics to something better.

the funny thing about Chill of death is that it would be a super strong trait even without the damage. And it would be a super strong trait without the boon remove.

#No unavoidable Dmg Procs
#No RNG in fights

The damage without chill of death is noticeably worse. For about 50-100 games I played a different power necro spec without chill of death and then went back to the meta spec, and the damage is much higher with it.

Removing chill of death means you have to replace it with a trait that is equally strong but not an instant proc. I welcome any advocates for necro active defenses, but this change of one trait won’t all of a sudden bring a necro some legit defense. Which is why these threads aren’t really helpful, you can’t just say “remove chill of death but revamp the class defensively” because the only idea there is removing chill of death.

I don’t like passive procs either but when you have panic strike, incendiary powder, sigils, runes, and a huge number of defensive passives from procs or signet heals or whatever, it’s just a drop in the bucket and not running it is gimping yourself.

I think this is a L2P issue tbh. Like Turret engis and when Rangers got their DMG buff and people flooded the forums q.q that LB ranger was too strong x.x man oh man its easier to complain on the forums then to try and adapt to the situation. If you think Spinal Shivers is random proc your showing your lack of knowledge.

Weez.6315:

when he could get a viable active defense instead.

This is the real world – that’s clearly never going to happen.

Rym.1469:

Give Necromancer any other option to be partly okay in this crazy meta, they will take it over wellspam anyday.

Untill then, proc wars. Not like Necromancer is the only one here.

no other profession can drastically lose a 1v1 (enemy has more than 8k hp) and still win through downstate procs. so yeah, necro is alone in that regard.

sinject.4607:

Rym.1469:

Give Necromancer any other option to be partly okay in this crazy meta, they will take it over wellspam anyday.

Untill then, proc wars. Not like Necromancer is the only one here.

no other profession can drastically lose a 1v1 (enemy has more than 8k hp) and still win through downstate procs. so yeah, necro is alone in that regard.

No other profession is focused as heavily as Necromancers are. Perhaps this makes you reconsider that? This is a l2p issue anyway, especially If you play thief where there are multiple safe stomp options. You can also LOS or get out of range. Plenty of counters to an easily stomped down state.

I seriously wonder what some of you guys do against a well played engi or ele if there is this much QQ about power necros.

Roe.3679:

I seriously wonder what some of you guys do against a well played engi or ele if there is this much QQ about power necros.

Its not like cele engi and ele takes really much more skill than that.

Rednik.3809:

Roe.3679:

I seriously wonder what some of you guys do against a well played engi or ele if there is this much QQ about power necros.

Its not like cele engi and ele takes really much more skill than that.

The point is that they are far more viable specs.

Roe.3679:

The point is that they are far more viable specs.

They all have common flaw – their specs playing instead of them.

Roe.3679:

sinject.4607:

Rym.1469:

Give Necromancer any other option to be partly okay in this crazy meta, they will take it over wellspam anyday.

Untill then, proc wars. Not like Necromancer is the only one here.

no other profession can drastically lose a 1v1 (enemy has more than 8k hp) and still win through downstate procs. so yeah, necro is alone in that regard.

No other profession is focused as heavily as Necromancers are. Perhaps this makes you reconsider that? This is a l2p issue anyway, especially If you play thief where there are multiple safe stomp options. You can also LOS or get out of range. Plenty of counters to an easily stomped down state.

I seriously wonder what some of you guys do against a well played engi or ele if there is this much QQ about power necros.

your response doesn’t actually address my topic and instead you bring up how “heavily focused” necros are as justification for being able to win 1v1s (which is completely unrelated to how heavily something gets focused in teamfights) almost entirely from downed state.

in 1v1s, first person to go down should always lose. i don’t care what build or profession you’re playing there should be no exceptions to this. yes, this means ranger downstate needs a serious nerf too, and warrior as well (not so much nerfs as totally new #3 skills). no profession should be designed to have a distinct advantage in down state fights just to compensate for poor upright performance. this is just dumb no matter how you cut it.

it’s like reading a guardian moan about not being able to escape teamfights as justification for being stupidly strong in 1v1s against anything with zerker amulet.

if i lose to an engie or ele im fine with it because there’s at least a hint of complexity to them; power necro, just like power ranger, is all gimmick. you should not be defending either or in their current state but asking for major redesigns so necro has more than just “sit behind a mountain of HP and pray you can auto attack whatever is killing you to death”, same with ranger except “sit on an actual mountain and pray you can kill whatever is coming at you before they get to you and signet of stone wears off”.

I’m not asking for nerfs to either professions because they are the worst off right now, i’m asking that they be given lower skill floors but considerably higher ceilings through improved redesigns that are more reliant on active (but more rewarding) defensive play a la thief, mesmer, and engie.

People just like to defend their main classes in this game, and it is understandable. But it doesn’t change the fact that power necro with chill of death realies on it and sigils to do its damage quite heavily. This is bad design and should be removed. Period. It doesn’t matter if necro is “worse” than other professions- don’t tackle broken with more broken. One reason why condi necro for example isn’t meta anymore is because dd ele and (mainly) shoutbow warrior drive every condition based spec out of the meta. These are things to look at to buff necromancer, but either way chill of death needs to be changed.

sinject.4607:

Roe.3679:

sinject.4607:

Rym.1469:

Give Necromancer any other option to be partly okay in this crazy meta, they will take it over wellspam anyday.

Untill then, proc wars. Not like Necromancer is the only one here.

no other profession can drastically lose a 1v1 (enemy has more than 8k hp) and still win through downstate procs. so yeah, necro is alone in that regard.

No other profession is focused as heavily as Necromancers are. Perhaps this makes you reconsider that? This is a l2p issue anyway, especially If you play thief where there are multiple safe stomp options. You can also LOS or get out of range. Plenty of counters to an easily stomped down state.

I seriously wonder what some of you guys do against a well played engi or ele if there is this much QQ about power necros.

your response doesn’t actually address my topic and instead you bring up how “heavily focused” necros are as justification for being able to win 1v1s (which is completely unrelated to how heavily something gets focused in teamfights) almost entirely from downed state.

in 1v1s, first person to go down should always lose. i don’t care what build or profession you’re playing there should be no exceptions to this. yes, this means ranger downstate needs a serious nerf too, and warrior as well (not so much nerfs as totally new #3 skills). no profession should be designed to have a distinct advantage in down state fights just to compensate for poor upright performance. this is just dumb no matter how you cut it.

it’s like reading a guardian moan about not being able to escape teamfights as justification for being stupidly strong in 1v1s against anything with zerker amulet.

if i lose to an engie or ele im fine with it because there’s at least a hint of complexity to them; power necro, just like power ranger, is all gimmick. you should not be defending either or in their current state but asking for major redesigns so necro has more than just “sit behind a mountain of HP and pray you can auto attack whatever is killing you to death”, same with ranger except “sit on an actual mountain and pray you can kill whatever is coming at you before they get to you and signet of stone wears off”.

I’m not asking for nerfs to either professions because they are the worst off right now, i’m asking that they be given lower skill floors but considerably higher ceilings through improved redesigns that are more reliant on active (but more rewarding) defensive play a la thief, mesmer, and engie.

We all know that it’s bad. If you ask any long-time Necromancer if he enjoys dealing more damage in downstate than with his dagger or so, I will make an assumption and tell you that no, he doesn’t.

It’s broken in 1v1, indeed and nobody is going to say it isn’t. Chill of Death is a big damage proc and procs for the most part are lame. Nobody likes Chill of Death.

But that’s what’s left of Necromancer in today’s PvP. We rely on nearly insta-kill proccing in 1v1s, because despite being attrition profession and “having Second Life Bar”, both in Condition and Power builds we have to rely on extreme bursts and lockdowns, since every other meta spec can quite easily outsustain us. Including Thieves. Kill before they kill you.

All what we’re saying isn’t in defense of Death’s Embrace, Chill of Death and other procs like that. We hate that even more than you do, because it’s no interesting gameplay and prevents balance.

But we have no other option if we want to play some games today in TPvP. Condition is so heavily countered by almost any other meta build and brings so little LF generation or teamfight value that it’s simply not played on higher MMRs anymore outside of few dedicated players. So we end up with more or less, custom WvW well power build in most cases.
Without Chill of Death, we lack 1v1 pressure.

Conclusion: We hate procs and that part of poor Power Necromancer playstyle. But we need it to be tolerable in tPvP. Nerf it without fixing our problems and you won’t see any Necromancer in Tournaments, not even those single ones who are playing at the moment and hold on just because they’re excellent players and team members.

And, I will say it again, proc problem isn’t exclusive to Necromancer.
Mediguard?
Panic Strike Thief?
S/D Thief?

The list can go on.

So instead of saying “nerf CoD and downstate”, say “Fix Necromancers so they don’t have to use them”.

sinject.4607:

Roe.3679:

sinject.4607:

Rym.1469:

Give Necromancer any other option to be partly okay in this crazy meta, they will take it over wellspam anyday.

Untill then, proc wars. Not like Necromancer is the only one here.

no other profession can drastically lose a 1v1 (enemy has more than 8k hp) and still win through downstate procs. so yeah, necro is alone in that regard.

No other profession is focused as heavily as Necromancers are. Perhaps this makes you reconsider that? This is a l2p issue anyway, especially If you play thief where there are multiple safe stomp options. You can also LOS or get out of range. Plenty of counters to an easily stomped down state.

I seriously wonder what some of you guys do against a well played engi or ele if there is this much QQ about power necros.

your response doesn’t actually address my topic and instead you bring up how “heavily focused” necros are as justification for being able to win 1v1s (which is completely unrelated to how heavily something gets focused in teamfights) almost entirely from downed state.

in 1v1s, first person to go down should always lose. i don’t care what build or profession you’re playing there should be no exceptions to this. yes, this means ranger downstate needs a serious nerf too, and warrior as well (not so much nerfs as totally new #3 skills). no profession should be designed to have a distinct advantage in down state fights just to compensate for poor upright performance. this is just dumb no matter how you cut it.

it’s like reading a guardian moan about not being able to escape teamfights as justification for being stupidly strong in 1v1s against anything with zerker amulet.

if i lose to an engie or ele im fine with it because there’s at least a hint of complexity to them; power necro, just like power ranger, is all gimmick. you should not be defending either or in their current state but asking for major redesigns so necro has more than just “sit behind a mountain of HP and pray you can auto attack whatever is killing you to death”, same with ranger except “sit on an actual mountain and pray you can kill whatever is coming at you before they get to you and signet of stone wears off”.

I’m not asking for nerfs to either professions because they are the worst off right now, i’m asking that they be given lower skill floors but considerably higher ceilings through improved redesigns that are more reliant on active (but more rewarding) defensive play a la thief, mesmer, and engie.

Feel free to search my post history where I’ve made literally dozens of suggestions and at one point compiled every constructive necromancer post for months into one metapost with the intent of bringing positive change to necromancers.

But of course I’m going to defend my class. It’s actually taken some significant nerfs even while it hasn’t been in the meta for over a year. I don’t want to start feeling like even as a good necro that I can’t play the class I enjoy.

I also can’t help but find the irony that you put a necro into downed state in a 1v1 with 8k health left, yet the necro is the one that needs toned down?

And yeah, what Rym said.

Man this thread is just embarrassing. Helpful Tip! Manage your boons better….. I don’t need Air/Fire to kill people so no comment on the sigil. OP is obviously a bad player if he gets beat in downstate with a class that can stomp WITH a teleport LMAO! I don’t want to sound mean or anything but man….. L2P please.

sinject.4607:

Roe.3679:

sinject.4607:

Rym.1469:

Give Necromancer any other option to be partly okay in this crazy meta, they will take it over wellspam anyday.

Untill then, proc wars. Not like Necromancer is the only one here.

no other profession can drastically lose a 1v1 (enemy has more than 8k hp) and still win through downstate procs. so yeah, necro is alone in that regard.

No other profession is focused as heavily as Necromancers are. Perhaps this makes you reconsider that? This is a l2p issue anyway, especially If you play thief where there are multiple safe stomp options. You can also LOS or get out of range. Plenty of counters to an easily stomped down state.

I seriously wonder what some of you guys do against a well played engi or ele if there is this much QQ about power necros.

your response doesn’t actually address my topic and instead you bring up how “heavily focused” necros are as justification for being able to win 1v1s (which is completely unrelated to how heavily something gets focused in teamfights) almost entirely from downed state.

in 1v1s, first person to go down should always lose. i don’t care what build or profession you’re playing there should be no exceptions to this. yes, this means ranger downstate needs a serious nerf too, and warrior as well (not so much nerfs as totally new #3 skills). no profession should be designed to have a distinct advantage in down state fights just to compensate for poor upright performance. this is just dumb no matter how you cut it.

it’s like reading a guardian moan about not being able to escape teamfights as justification for being stupidly strong in 1v1s against anything with zerker amulet.

if i lose to an engie or ele im fine with it because there’s at least a hint of complexity to them; power necro, just like power ranger, is all gimmick. you should not be defending either or in their current state but asking for major redesigns so necro has more than just “sit behind a mountain of HP and pray you can auto attack whatever is killing you to death”, same with ranger except “sit on an actual mountain and pray you can kill whatever is coming at you before they get to you and signet of stone wears off”.

I’m not asking for nerfs to either professions because they are the worst off right now, i’m asking that they be given lower skill floors but considerably higher ceilings through improved redesigns that are more reliant on active (but more rewarding) defensive play a la thief, mesmer, and engie.

His response is actually completely related to what you are talking about. Different classes have different perks. In the case of the necro, he will die due to focus fire very easily with minimal abilities to escape that don’t match any other classes mobility. But when necros are alone, they excel at 1v1s granted the player is capable of knowing what skills to use, because if you mess up a rotation on necro you’re dead meat. Necro downstate is also receiving a 25% damage nerf so lets stop bringing this up please.

Also, I love how people are bothered by Chill of Death all of a sudden. It’s been here for a while people, and necro’s aren’t the only ones with strong proc-ing traits. cough thief cough

I would love it if chill of death proced on interrupt, and had the same icd. Then at least you have to do something to proc it.

Kako.1930:

Yeah… I don’t really want them to NERF NECROS INTO THE GROUND like they did in the past, buuuut…. when I kill someone accidentally with a locust touching them while they’re standing behind me and have it explode on them with fire + air + spinal shivers and neither of us knows what just happened, that does seem pretty messed up lol. It could use a little adjusting. :P

LOLOL!

The only thing am scared in gw2 pvp is actualy power necro, my hp just vanishes in seconds on my zerker builds.
I don’t blame Air/Fire sigils, they don’t hit that hard, but that spinal shivers can realy hurt…

Power necro is the only class that requires you to run AWAY when you down them.

“oh you still have 7k health? not anymore.”