Guild Wars 2

Hi All,

Okay I have been doing some testing on different characters..
To further prove this-
Total points gained =21

Solo q: — Phase 1— (Solo Q only) —
Leaderboard total now : 9 wins with 10 loses – just under 50%. (15 points gained)
—Phase 2— (Team Q)--
Then did some testing with some guildies on Sat [3-4 guildies/friends and a ANET person who was kind enough to join us for some fun]. We are a PvX guild so had some idea about PvP (and no idea about a lot of advanced strategies) with 3 out of 5 of the team in TS. We had no real idea what builds each other were running and only a little bit of sync between us (team composition).
Won 4 matches, lost one – points gain: 6. (Points lost from the lost match =0)

Leaderboard total now: 13 wins 10 losses – win ratio over 50% (21 points total)
—Phase 3— Solo Q — back to solo Q to see if we get any decent matches
All the matches on returning to team que as a solo player honestly have resulted often in carrying very bad players with no real concept of pvp or team work.

Leaderboard total now: 21 wins, 24 losses (25 points total).

Conclusion:
The solo q needs a different MMR than when running as a team MMR or 2-3 premade MMR.

There is no reasonable explanation why the number of losses should yet again go to a full on loosing streak. This is exactly what was happening in the Christmas leaderboards and often being paired up with teams or indivuals expecting to carry them.

It really sucks the fun out of the game having long lose streaks – there does need to be a streak buster and faster adjustment of MMR against if you are playing in a 2 man / 3 man / 4 man or as a solo.

There is no reasonable explanation that a player can play this many matches and only win 4 points.

I’m getting pretty sick of the impossible matches.
The majority of my fights are either: 1v2, 1v3, 2v3, 2v4.
I’ve almost always got team mates that are purely rally bots.

It is really disheartening to be perpetually matched with team mates that, for example don’t even know how vengeance works.

Strings of impossible matches because my team mates can’t win ANY 1v1 is really killing the vibe in pvp for me.

ITs the equivalent of forcing the PHIW’s with the speed clear dungeon crowd.

Naturally the 5 “average” player team will ALWAYS be stronger.

It’s also getting frustrating when trying to get minimum points (for example lord rushing) and they decide to afk during the match. The dishonorable clearly isn’t harsh enough towards afkers either.

I don’t get this… At all go back to team play and honestly get even more losses and fighting the same team for 1 HR resulting in 3 losses (1 person diff in opposite side) and 0 points gained or lost.

Honestly the win ratio and the rewards gained does not make this worth it any more.

I’m out until MMR is providing some decent match ups and variety.

On a finer note people who are persevering are not getting anywhere : I see people with 7 wins 27 losses – 0 points on the leaderboard. They were on the top 500 last season so I have no idea what’s changed but this just doesn’t feel rewarding or any fun at all now.

Justin ODell.9517:

You could do a linear interpolation between the solo MMR and team MMR based on the number of players in the party.

I haven’t thought about it since then, so it would be good to get people’s impression.

I don’t think linear is the way to go. A group of two doesn’t make a huge difference compared to solo players; it’s rare to see them as a specialized duo which can control a map. Even a group of three isn’t that overwhelming. However, a group of 4 has enough players to coordinate for both damage and area control.

It needs to be a non-linear progression …

With input variables such as :
Solo MMR, 2 man MMR, 3 man MMR, 4 man MMR, Full-Team MMR as key input points into the team combined with the other members in the party to get your teams overall MMR. For some players there solo MMR can serve as a starting point for these data calculations- with each being tracked individually behind the scenes.
I think the 5 data points need to be tracked and see of they in a linear or non-linear MMR curve.

I suspect very inexperienced players solo MMR will be similar to a full 5 party MMR as they are novices at a map. The veteran players in a full team will have a much higher MMR differential between solo and team play.

The MMR needs to adjust a lot faster than it currently does as a couple of wins adjusts the MMR up far too quickly and is very slow to go back downwards.

This way if someone goes from 4 man to solo or to a full team they will get relatively challenging but fair fights over a period of time- rather than a loony loosing streak as the persons MMR adjusts down from the 4 man to the lower solo MMR they would normally have.

If you need to look at MMR / Match history and do some data point testing – feel free to look at the data behind my account as I have played solo/2man/5 man/solo/2 man/4 man teams and if this would produce better overall results.

Something does need to be done – not everyone can play full teams all the time and those who switch between solo or different sized teams are being unfairly punished right now.

Exedore.6320:

Justin ODell.9517:

You could do a linear interpolation between the solo MMR and team MMR based on the number of players in the party.

I haven’t thought about it since then, so it would be good to get people’s impression.

I don’t think linear is the way to go. A group of two doesn’t make a huge difference compared to solo players; it’s rare to see them as a specialized duo which can control a map. Even a group of three isn’t that overwhelming. However, a group of 4 has enough players to coordinate for both damage and area control.

A group of two makes a huge difference. queueing solo is miserable but as a 2 man party you can do alot. The reason is because there is so much sustain around that you cant really kill anything on your own quick enough in a team fight. But with 1 other person you can gank it and get the stomp. So it is much easier.

Lordrosicky.5813:

A group of two makes a huge difference. queueing solo is miserable but as a 2 man party you can do alot. The reason is because there is so much sustain around that you cant really kill anything on your own quick enough in a team fight. But with 1 other person you can gank it and get the stomp. So it is much easier.

Call target in a team fight. Smart people who solo queue will assist you and you get the same effect. And you’re also assuming the duo queue are both DPS players. That’s a poor assumption. Even if they are, they still have to deal with being focused in a team fight. If one goes down, that duo is broken.

Groups of two at my level are often glued together, making the match more difficult.

That’s why I’m suggesting Jason looks at the stats of players who have mixed it up to support this with some data.

It may be we need 5 different MMRs behind the system of solo→full team.
This kind of thing should be easily able to be backed up by data.

No reason to have seperate MMRs. Bad players in soloq will still be bad players in teamqq. The only thing that would need to be adjusted is how much of a impact being in a soloq vs teamq has on the match making.
But I think the biggest problem is how much of a difference in MMR the match making is allowed to match you up with. I dont think I should EVER be with someone who isn’t rank 80 in a soloq unless they literally are like 30-1 or something.

There are players that will do substantially better in team mode than solo que.

I honestly suspect the MMR will have a wide variance.
As a prior solo player (pretty much exclusively)- before sec 16th there I has a much higher win ratio. My team group ratio was much lower as I often would be teaching guildies or people starting out.

Now I rotate between both and it’s obvious that a single MMR (at least to me) doesn’t function well at all given the types of wins/losses and types of matches I have played recently.

Even teamed with 2-3 others who had a basic understanding of the maps compared to people in solo que who have no understanding makes a high difference.

If you don’t believe me try running in teams for a week and then go solo and vice versa.

You can do better in team because you can purposely have people on your team with a higher mmr. I don’t know any good team players that can’t do well in Soloq though.

Booms.2594:

You can do better in team because you can purposely have people on your team with a higher mmr. I don’t know any good team players that can’t do well in Soloq though.

Higher mmr on your team mates means you should get tougher opposing teams. Or conversely, when switching back to solo you should get matches against easier opposing teams – due to having typically worse team mates. I say typically because you could still team up with bad people because you want to teach/train them.

Another solution would be to punish team que vs solo by only placing high ranked, high MMR solo players against premades. Three high ranked solo players will have a tough time against a premade when they have a couple beginners in their group. Maybe only place legendary champions in mixed matches against premades? Is this hard to program?

I find the premades loose their ego rather quickly when placed against higher skill solos. It’s a bit unfair to add relatively new solo players in match against a team with communication. There really is no substitute for being able to talk to your allies.

Booms I don’t see you in any of the leaderboards for ranked over the Xmas season – so honestly I cannot see how your opinion is based on fact.

The answer here is to look at the stats which we don’t have access to.

Yup this current test leaderboard is even worse… My win ratio is sinking even more wi with swap outs between team → solo → 2 man etc.

It’s like the mmr isn’t quite right at all.
I had about 40-45 % win ratio on the dec test… Now it’s <38% something here is not right.

I stopped looking at mine when it hit 20%.

Mine experience is much better, currently above 70% as solo Q, which means it’s probably puting me into ‘2ez’ matches.

TPMN.1483:

On a finer note people who are persevering are not getting anywhere : I see people with 7 wins 27 losses – 0 points on the leaderboard. They were on the top 500 last season so I have no idea what’s changed but this just doesn’t feel rewarding or any fun at all now.

What i’m not getting is that people in front page aren’t getting really hurt from loses ( i checked once +0 for 4 loses…), but meanwhile all my wins are giving me +1 only. The same happened yesterday : i lost 2 matchs like 500-350 ( 1 with beginners , 1 against premade all champions) and won 3 matchs, and i ended up with +2 points only…

Although it’s clearly better than the previous leaderboard, i kinda fail to understand how this works. It might be helpful having team statistics when the match starts in game ..

I think they will add stats to the start soon

Abazigal.3679:

Although it’s clearly better than the previous leaderboard, i kinda fail to understand how this works. It might be helpful having team statistics when the match starts in game ..

You really think this leaderboard is better? By what metric? The old leaderboard at least did a decent job of ranking the skill of those who played more than a few games. The new leaderboard doesn’t reflect skill at all; just time played along with some clever cheesing of the system.

Let’s say we went from an extrem to an other. I’m pretty sure you remember those ( many) players top100 with less than 20 games played( we could even say 100 actually…). It was way too volatile, and in 1 day of bad luck, you could drop 500 ranks..

Now the problem might be for team queue players, which probably have the same issue i posted, which is getting +1 point only for any win..