Guild Wars 2

Esl has a rule now where each team has to have 5 different classes in a team. This should be the way in matchmaking also. Official tournament rules should apply to the ranked arena if the goal is to get more competitive teams.

It’s no use to play for example with 2 same professions in a team if you can’t play that in a tournament and it’s not fair for teams that use 5 different professions to face multiple same professions on the enemy team.

The reason to apply this to the ranked arena is that 5 different professions is a good thing and makes this game way more balanced. It also makes balancing much easier.

Also swapping professions after the queue is over should not be a thing.

The Ace.9105:

Official tournament rules should apply to the ranked arena if the goal is to get more competitive teams.

I thought the goal was to try and cover up the laughable balance issues in the game, because it is affecting ESL/Anet’s marketing exercise, same old thing, paper over the cracks rather than fix the actual issue.

+1 Agree, same rules should apply for ranked, don’t care much about profession swaping as long as it doesn’t allow to pick a class already in the party.

I can only see one complication with this and it is the waiting times for those players with the most popular classes (if any),

The problem with that though would be the queue lengths for popular classes.

It’s not unusual to see a 2 teams with 4-5 thieves or necros between them right now. They’d have to wait for quite some time.

I don’t think the class stacking rule is a good one, but I don’t see how you can implement it in ranked without significantly affecting the queue times.

Queue time is a valid point.

But to achieve that, you need to lock profession when queuing. This means a lot of flexibility will be lost.

Hardcore sPvPer have many toons and many builds for different situations. We switch them to give our comp a chance to win, the comp vs comp aspect of it.

Here is some thoughts about profession locking:
https://np.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/439uq3/pvp_evan_lesh_would_all_highskilled_players_be_ok/?ref=search_posts

Queue time is only a problem for soloQ players, don’t know how valid it would be to force teaming up … kinda would be worst, dunno …

And actual solution would be the profession locking itself, by only being one counter in play, certain underplayed classes/builds may become viable. It is just merely speculation tho.

no, I dont want increased Queue times.

Just accept that this game will never be well balanced.

Just open ranked up already end of month for ranked to start? Anet is on crack cocaine

The Ace.9105:

Esl has a rule now where each team has to have 5 different classes in a team. This should be the way in matchmaking also. Official tournament rules should apply to the ranked arena if the goal is to get more competitive teams.

It’s no use to play for example with 2 same professions in a team if you can’t play that in a tournament and it’s not fair for teams that use 5 different professions to face multiple same professions on the enemy team.

The reason to apply this to the ranked arena is that 5 different professions is a good thing and makes this game way more balanced. It also makes balancing much easier.

Also swapping professions after the queue is over should not be a thing.

i disagree and if this is a real ESL thing Anet should be embarrassed.

Its so bad that now you have to play a different class on a 5 man team and there is only 9 classes. Seriously just balance the game, before HOT you saw in the ESL league 2 ranger teams with 2 ele and a thief. On EU you saw the 1 of each class against power heavy teams of ele.

The best tournament to have watched was the WTS where ORNG beat the Abjured. We cant get that now because of the huge imbalance of the game. Seriously quit asking for dumb things like 1 each class in ranked when you simply should be asking for a balanced PvP.

You have to understand kdaddy that sometimes balancing just isn’t possible in a way that class stacking would be worse than bringing more variety and playing 5 different classes.

Many very balanced games don’t allow class stacking

The Ace.9105:

You have to understand kdaddy that sometimes balancing just isn’t possible in a way that class stacking would be worse than bringing more variety and playing 5 different classes.

your right what was i thinking, next lets just make it so people cant use staff on thieves because we dont want to balance it. Good luck next year mesmers because you cant apply conditions anymore since it was unfair.

If me and my guild want to play 5 ranger premade with 1 traps, 1 shouts, 2 glyphs and bunker we should have the option. This is a 5 vs 5 and if this game wants to be ESPORTS maybe it should actually act like it.

Maybe i dont know the Esports and kids who want to be competitive on a game but last time i checked the NBA didnt stop the Warriors from playing 5 guys 6" 8 and under. They didnt say you have to play someone in the post. The NBA didnt stop the lakers in the 80s and said hey you have to shoot a bunch of 3’s.

Of course though in this game and other imbalanced games you cant stack classes because of the imbalanced of it all. You can say they are balanced but if they dont allow stacking then obviously putting 1-2-3 of a certain type of class in the match gives a advantage to the other team and then the game isnt based on skill or luck but who had the most of X class.

There is no champion stacking in a moba for a reason and these games are a huge success in esports. GW2 is way easier to balance if you just have to focus on professions against every profession separately than it would be to focus on every profession + stacks of the same profession (balancing against op classes and balancing against op team comps at the same time). Five different professions form a team comp and the other team has to counter it with another team comp not by easy way stacking professions that would be fine if there would be only 1 of that professions but is extremely broken if there is more than 1 of that specific profession.

Yeah sure I understand that you want to play 5 ranger comp but then you shouldn’t cry about other stacking classes and how broken they are or cry that there is no balance at all. I know it can be frustrating if your op warrior or ele build was nerfed and you can’t really play anything else but want still play with the good players and you can’t do that and that is one of the reasons why class stacking shouldn’t be possible because it only makes the situation worse for you. This is also why I want to request this change to the ranked arena. The unranked arena can still be for the people who want to play broken team comps.

reikken.4961:

Many very balanced games don’t allow class stacking

Indeed, I always wondered why GW2 lets you stack classes. sPvP is pretty much a MOBA and if we look at the other mobas out there, they all allow only 1 of each class on a team. To name a few: Dota, Awesomenauts, Smite and LoL. Dota goes as far as allowing only 1 of each hero in an entire match, but it has 100+ heroes so there is really no comparing to GW2. And I gotta say, Dota tournaments are way more entertaining to watch than GW2, you never know for sure what kind of a composition the teams will use and every match is somewhat different. And if we look at heroes in dota, one could argue that they are all OP but the game is balanced when you can’t stack them (Dota_commercial/end).

Balancing games is way easier when you can’t stack one class. It allows you to have extremely strong skills (damage and cc) when there is only one person in a match that can use it so you can chain them. Not really viable but a team of 5 chronomancers could use 10 gravity wells in a teamfight, and 5 thieves could instagib 2 enemies in a coordinated burst and teamfights would always be 5v3… scary stuff.

I think it would be nice to have 5 different classes in a team when playing ranked, would make things interesting, you know team dynamics and such. It could be like 1 bunker, 1 dps backline caster, 1 bruiser, 1 roamer to +1 and 1 healer. We could have actual roles and not have everyone doing the same thing.

And at least we would have guaranteed 5 professions that are meta , it is more than half <o_0>

kdaddy.5431:

The Ace.9105:

You have to understand kdaddy that sometimes balancing just isn’t possible in a way that class stacking would be worse than bringing more variety and playing 5 different classes.

your right what was i thinking, next lets just make it so people cant use staff on thieves because we dont want to balance it. Good luck next year mesmers because you cant apply conditions anymore since it was unfair.

If me and my guild want to play 5 ranger premade with 1 traps, 1 shouts, 2 glyphs and bunker we should have the option. This is a 5 vs 5 and if this game wants to be ESPORTS maybe it should actually act like it.

Maybe i dont know the Esports and kids who want to be competitive on a game but last time i checked the NBA didnt stop the Warriors from playing 5 guys 6" 8 and under. They didnt say you have to play someone in the post. The NBA didnt stop the lakers in the 80s and said hey you have to shoot a bunch of 3’s.

Of course though in this game and other imbalanced games you cant stack classes because of the imbalanced of it all. You can say they are balanced but if they dont allow stacking then obviously putting 1-2-3 of a certain type of class in the match gives a advantage to the other team and then the game isnt based on skill or luck but who had the most of X class.

An incredibly subjective and bias point of view. It’s as if you were part of a team who just lost their main class stacking team comp.

Mobas don’t allow stacked classes, the change does strengthen Conquest balances and it promotes class diversity. I’m all for it.

Yeah this would be fun but I can’t imagine how long the queue times would be.

Browrain.7346:

Yeah this would be fun but I can’t imagine how long the queue times would be.

You should expand your thinking, there are some ways around that. If no other systems are implemented there would obviously be some popular classes that everyone wants to play and if you queue as such you would get long wait times. But when ppl realize this they start to queue as other professions to get lower queues. And of course you would like to play what you play best and tryhard in ranked but when you really get competitive you get a team and then queue times would not be a problem anymore. But you are absolutely right, this is could become a problem if nothing else is done.

In MMOs that have trinity, in some cases, you have an option to queue as a dps, tank and healer at the same time. So, you can choose to queue as a specific profession and get long queue times, or you can queue as everything and get lower queue times at the cost of not getting to choose what to play. And as you can already swap professions in sPvP this wouldn’t be a big change.

What I think would be ideal is that you could queue with multiple profession at once and when you get to a match you have to choose what to play (or the game chooses for you). This is what every other moba game does.

Blue Hare.8612:

Browrain.7346:

Yeah this would be fun but I can’t imagine how long the queue times would be.

You should expand your thinking, there are some ways around that. If no other systems are implemented there would obviously be some popular classes that everyone wants to play and if you queue as such you would get long wait times. But when ppl realize this they start to queue as other professions to get lower queues. And of course you would like to play what you play best and tryhard in ranked but when you really get competitive you get a team and then queue times would not be a problem anymore. But you are absolutely right, this is could become a problem if nothing else is done.

In MMOs that have trinity, in some cases, you have an option to queue as a dps, tank and healer at the same time. So, you can choose to queue as a specific profession and get long queue times, or you can queue as everything and get lower queue times at the cost of not getting to choose what to play. And as you can already swap professions in sPvP this wouldn’t be a big change.

What I think would be ideal is that you could queue with multiple profession at once and when you get to a match you have to choose what to play (or the game chooses for you). This is what every other moba game does.

So people would have to play what they don’t want to play just to decrease q times. You should expand your thinking. This would create other problems.

Would be really nice.

They should work on something to tell the player about the queue ( at least something like “there are too many necros, your queue time could be higher than expected” ).

I mean, fix arenas to be one per class requires a Instafix, and will be great to the whole community. Must be working on queue messages.

Browrain.7346:

Blue Hare.8612:

Browrain.7346:

Yeah this would be fun but I can’t imagine how long the queue times would be.

You should expand your thinking, there are some ways around that. If no other systems are implemented there would obviously be some popular classes that everyone wants to play and if you queue as such you would get long wait times. But when ppl realize this they start to queue as other professions to get lower queues. And of course you would like to play what you play best and tryhard in ranked but when you really get competitive you get a team and then queue times would not be a problem anymore. But you are absolutely right, this is could become a problem if nothing else is done.

In MMOs that have trinity, in some cases, you have an option to queue as a dps, tank and healer at the same time. So, you can choose to queue as a specific profession and get long queue times, or you can queue as everything and get lower queue times at the cost of not getting to choose what to play. And as you can already swap professions in sPvP this wouldn’t be a big change.

What I think would be ideal is that you could queue with multiple profession at once and when you get to a match you have to choose what to play (or the game chooses for you). This is what every other moba game does.

So people would have to play what they don’t want to play just to decrease q times. You should expand your thinking. This would create other problems.

Was not my intention to sound harsh or anything, maybe should use smileys more often to soften up my messages to convey my points better. Here is one:

Anyway, I don’t really get this thing that ppl want to play only one class in sPvP. Players should be competent to play at least 3 different professions. I play Dota quite often and in dota, if you want to be competitive you have to be comfortable with at least 20 different heroes and you have to choose what to play based on your team dynamics and to counter enemy team. Different games but still…

I do realize the inconvenience of having longer queue times when you want to play a specific class, but personally I value balanced games and diverse team compositions more.

Another thing about class stacking is PvP dailies I would like changed, now there is these “thief day” “necro day” things and we have teams with 3 thieves… “oh, it’s that day again”. Maybe make dailies different on each account and not have everyone doing the same dailies at the same time… just maybe.

So people will queue on a class that isn’t popular and then switch after they get a match?

Blue Hare.8612:

Anyway, I don’t really get this thing that ppl want to play only one class in sPvP. Players should be competent to play at least 3 different professions.

Nope.

An spvp player could ( should? ) know all classes, to know cd, range, bugs, effects, casting time, animation, etc etc…. but can use just one single class.

The real problem is that casual players tries to use the most kitten class of the moment, switching from class to class every patch ( without know how to play it ).

An example are most of dragonhunters, and actually many necros,thieves,druids and scrappers.

ANET tries to call the casual community to and some pve players, but this is not worth as PVP, but just as farm, frustration… but less queue in exchange.

They could not fix soloq, cause queue… but at least fixing premades ( 1x class ) would be a great idea.

Shirlias.8104:

Blue Hare.8612:

Anyway, I don’t really get this thing that ppl want to play only one class in sPvP. Players should be competent to play at least 3 different professions.

Nope.

An spvp player could ( should? ) know all classes, to know cd, range, bugs, effects, casting time, animation, etc etc…. but can use just one single class.

The real problem is that casual players tries to use the most kitten class of the moment, switching from class to class every patch ( without know how to play it ).

An example are most of dragonhunters, and actually many necros,thieves,druids and scrappers.

ANET tries to call the casual community to and some pve players, but this is not worth as PVP, but just as farm, frustration… but less queue in exchange.

They could not fix soloq, cause queue… but at least fixing premades ( 1x class ) would be a great idea.

“Can” is a relative term, you(not “you” you, so not referring to you, take no offense) can play whatever you want, no one is stopping you. Of course you can have a signature class you enjoy playing and are the most comfortable with but I think you have to be able to play multiple professions so you can use the one that benefits your team the most. And the most effective way to learn to know other professions is to play them.

And when you mention casuals, I can see what you mean by ppl jumping to different profession when meta changes, I have seen it many times, but then again why should someone care what casuals do? Casuals shouldn’t get verry high on the ladder anyways.

My point is that competitive players have to be able to react to meta changes and play with the strongest team composition available. Meaning that competitive players don’t have the convenience of playing what they want but what they have to in order to win.

To solve queue time on most popular classes for soloQers how about disabling the ranked button while there’s too many of that class Queued, the button will become available once the possitions get filled (a feedback expected waytime would help here so the player can decide wether to switch before queuing

… if disabling the button is too much then something that says…. “You are X in line” while X decreases as matches are decided. ..practically a queue to the queue. :P

kuritsutian.2987:

I can only see one complication with this and it is the waiting times for those players with the most popular classes (if any),

good luck trying make the flavor of the month (over buffed OP) classes wait longer? I am sure thieves and reapers will make a new thread to cry and moan about it.

Question: when people speak about wanting anet to balance pvp, do they mean they want every possible configuration for every profession to be viable in pvp? Every weapon set, every trait line, every utility set?

And when they speak of other games that they say are balanced: do the professions or classes in that game allow for customization of traits, skills and weapon sets? Or do the classes come pre determined with a set of skills, weapons or even traits?

Cause the impression i get is that the more choices and customization you give players, the harder it is to balance. The simpler the game, the easier it is to balance.

Laraley.7695:

So people will queue on a class that isn’t popular and then switch after they get a match?

If they tried to switch after they get a match they’d only be allowed to switch to classes that aren’t already present on their team. I don’t see any issue with that.

Saiyan.1704:

kdaddy.5431:

The Ace.9105:

You have to understand kdaddy that sometimes balancing just isn’t possible in a way that class stacking would be worse than bringing more variety and playing 5 different classes.

your right what was i thinking, next lets just make it so people cant use staff on thieves because we dont want to balance it. Good luck next year mesmers because you cant apply conditions anymore since it was unfair.

If me and my guild want to play 5 ranger premade with 1 traps, 1 shouts, 2 glyphs and bunker we should have the option. This is a 5 vs 5 and if this game wants to be ESPORTS maybe it should actually act like it.

Maybe i dont know the Esports and kids who want to be competitive on a game but last time i checked the NBA didnt stop the Warriors from playing 5 guys 6" 8 and under. They didnt say you have to play someone in the post. The NBA didnt stop the lakers in the 80s and said hey you have to shoot a bunch of 3’s.

Of course though in this game and other imbalanced games you cant stack classes because of the imbalanced of it all. You can say they are balanced but if they dont allow stacking then obviously putting 1-2-3 of a certain type of class in the match gives a advantage to the other team and then the game isnt based on skill or luck but who had the most of X class.

An incredibly subjective and bias point of view. It’s as if you were part of a team who just lost their main class stacking team comp.

Mobas don’t allow stacked classes, the change does strengthen Conquest balances and it promotes class diversity. I’m all for it.

This doesnt make the game any different. For a team like the abjured who already ran 1 necro, 1 thief, 1 ele, 1 rev, and 1 engy. You look at ORNG before HOT who ran 1 guardian, 1 warrior, 1 thief, 1 mesmer, and 1 ele.

The best teams in the game already had class diversity, the only reason it doesnt now is because the game isnt balanced. Its like some really ignorant joke where people are saying OHHHHH heres a huge problem lets make bad rules for it.

Sitting here talking about mobas, some of us came to a game like this from wow, champions online etc etc etc because it was open combat and not a moba and now you use moba rules to say its a good idea? When they literally have hundreds of heros.

Making terrible rules and stipulations to fix a balance problem is like putting duck tape over your broken window and poking holes threw and saying we have air conditioning.

kdaddy.5431:

Saiyan.1704:

kdaddy.5431:

The Ace.9105:

You have to understand kdaddy that sometimes balancing just isn’t possible in a way that class stacking would be worse than bringing more variety and playing 5 different classes.

your right what was i thinking, next lets just make it so people cant use staff on thieves because we dont want to balance it. Good luck next year mesmers because you cant apply conditions anymore since it was unfair.

If me and my guild want to play 5 ranger premade with 1 traps, 1 shouts, 2 glyphs and bunker we should have the option. This is a 5 vs 5 and if this game wants to be ESPORTS maybe it should actually act like it.

Maybe i dont know the Esports and kids who want to be competitive on a game but last time i checked the NBA didnt stop the Warriors from playing 5 guys 6" 8 and under. They didnt say you have to play someone in the post. The NBA didnt stop the lakers in the 80s and said hey you have to shoot a bunch of 3’s.

Of course though in this game and other imbalanced games you cant stack classes because of the imbalanced of it all. You can say they are balanced but if they dont allow stacking then obviously putting 1-2-3 of a certain type of class in the match gives a advantage to the other team and then the game isnt based on skill or luck but who had the most of X class.

An incredibly subjective and bias point of view. It’s as if you were part of a team who just lost their main class stacking team comp.

Mobas don’t allow stacked classes, the change does strengthen Conquest balances and it promotes class diversity. I’m all for it.

This doesnt make the game any different. For a team like the abjured who already ran 1 necro, 1 thief, 1 ele, 1 rev, and 1 engy. You look at ORNG before HOT who ran 1 guardian, 1 warrior, 1 thief, 1 mesmer, and 1 ele.

The best teams in the game already had class diversity, the only reason it doesnt now is because the game isnt balanced. Its like some really ignorant joke where people are saying OHHHHH heres a huge problem lets make bad rules for it.

Sitting here talking about mobas, some of us came to a game like this from wow, champions online etc etc etc because it was open combat and not a moba and now you use moba rules to say its a good idea? When they literally have hundreds of heros.

Making terrible rules and stipulations to fix a balance problem is like putting duck tape over your broken window and poking holes threw and saying we have air conditioning.

I guess it’s just easier to cry for nerfs and buffs and how bad the balance is than actually learning how to play the game before doing so.

So it’s better to force people to play classes they don’t want than to actually fix a balance problem? Though I’m not sure what a l2p argument has to do with this thread

limit to double of a class would be fair.
one of each class is too much. say I wanted to play my LB\staff druid and my pal wants to play his trapper druid. we couldn’t do so. that’s silly. it’s not as if it’s OP, we don’t even fill the same role. I’m burst power and he’s a hybrid roamer.
why forbid that?

sure, I understand for scrapper, but that’s actually the only class I would want to stack. the rest of the classes are actually not that good to run multiple of, and certainly not three or more. I’ve fought tripple necro and its awful. as are tripple mes, ele, theif, warrior etc. more than two of a class is often a detriment to the team, not an advantage.