Guild Wars 2

I hate Skyhammer.

It has some interesting ideas, but overdoes them.

There should be no way to fall to your death, but you could make falling an inconvenience.

• I think the most interesting way would be making the holes around the home and far points lead to portals that teleport you just around the corner from where you were. That would make falling into one inconvenient, but no instant death.

• The larger holes on the bottom level should be moved to above. to make the lower level still relevant I have an idea that I will elaborate on when talking about the Hammer itself.

I like the idea of the Hammer being powerful, but with the area it controls being so easy to hold and fall off on, it’s a nightmare.

• Rather than having there only be one console to control the Hammer, the current console should only control it. To actually have access to it, the lower deck area should have 2 consoles that you need to activate to have access to it. To lose access the other team has to deactivate both and then activate them again. This will make actually taking the Hammer harder.

• The Hammer platform needs to be larger and have barricades so that you can’t fall off.

I can’t claim to have any experience as a map designer, but considering how many times I’ve had to put up with this map I feel like I at least know what makes it bad. If these flaws were reduced/removed, I might actually bother playing SoloQ.

This was suggested 1yr ago, they (devs thought removing 2 panels off skyhammer) thought it balanced the map out.

Just make all the panels last a couple seconds longer, or better yet, not break.
Could even excuse it by saying that the Asurans have ‘perfected’ their floor panel technology.

Put the bottom play level appx. 20ft above the ground, have stairs that can get you back into the play levels. Remove the wurms.

Now there is still a chance you will die from the fall if your health is low, but it’s not the same amount of cheese.

My play at skyhammer is not to even be overly competitive, but to equip Scorpion Wire and just keep getting people one shot.

I admit, it’s cheesy, but guess what, it works and it helps the team more than fighting for a minute or two to get the base. A lot of classes are doing it too, engineers, mesmers, rangers etc.

That’s a problem…

Everything is wrong about this map, you can’t fix it.

Anet already removed it from teamQ, why don’t they kittening aknowledge this map is utter crap and remove it from soloQ also ? I don’t mind it being in hotjoin because you can always leave when it pops, but being forced to play on this complete joke is not acceptable.

It really needs to lose *all* instant-death mechanics to be fair in any way at all.

And the hammer? Both Spirit Watch and Skyhammer have a single, shared secondary objective that’s important throughout the whole match. These are easily the two most disliked maps for competitive play.
It needs to be much, much less powerful - or include some risk. I like the idea of friendly fire applying to the hammer shot, so that allies caught in the AoE are affected in the same way as enemies.

...oh yeah. And the bugs. All the ones relating to glass panels (which shouldn’t exist/be breakable anyway), along with the gate bugs, really define this map as one unfit for purpose.

Just brainstroming some of my ideas:

• All edges get a fence so you can’t be knocked/feared down. [This is to remove some of the cheesiness of certain builds on the map.]

• All panels are now unbreakable unless they get shot by the Skyhammer Cannon [Further reduces the amount of cheese, but allows for teamwork; one player shoots the panels out another one knocks the enemy down.]

• The Skyhammer Cannon deals ~25% less damage and/or can be dodged. [This makes the Skyhammer less of an “Teamfight-Instant-Win-Button”]

• The console below Point B (mid) gets a new functionality. If you channel it (similar to the buffs on Temple) the Skyhammer Cannon gets disabled for 30 seconds. This can be done every 60 seconds. [This way you will have to controll two points to make the most aout of the Cannon. If you can controll the Cannon but not the console you will only have an ~50% uptime on the Cannon.]

if you could block/dodge the hammer, and throwing someone off the platform wasn’t a guaranteed kill (say, make them lose time like with temple), the map would be fine.

Something I don’t think I’ve seen mentioned here, is that the jump pads can be really hard to use if you are in combat, or have some movement impediment. The jump will usually not be enough, sending you back down… Very inconvenient to spend time focusing on making a jump when you’re under fire.

Apart from than, I’d have to agree on there being a rework. There is nothing skilled about the instant death mechanic.

The map is also buggy as a kitten. Sometimes you die from getting close to the edge (but not falling off), blinking doesn’t always work across glass platforms and once I actually spawned outside the map during a match.

http://i.imgur.com/ns6mORB.jpg

Skyhammer is fine.

People just don’t realize that it is a different game mode which goes beyond conquest.

It’s actually conquest on a higher level. You need to count more dodges, anticipate enemy skills/cd, positioning, and map awareness. Normally you can miss a few of these and still be alive in typical conquest, but in skyhammer you are punish severely or handsomely rewarded.

The handful that do realize simply refuse to switch to a build/play-style suited for the map. Which leaves the select few that do adapt to wreck havoc on them.

kirito.4138:

Skyhammer is fine.

The counter to your statement is simply “Then why was it removed from tournament play?”

Rather see Raid on the Capricorn getting fixed instead of that kitten kittenhammer.

Hammer needs to be either dodgeable or do damage percentage wise. It’s sickening that warrior can tank 2 or 3 hits and not get downed while more squishy classes are left with 20% hp after one hit

I see several posts saying that all instant deaths should be removed and I literally say that in my post. It also makes the Hammer much less powerful because it requires taking players off point to take 2 consoles and you can lose them. It also makes killing the guy on the hammer less of a nightmare.

If you have failed at the core part of design it is much more cost effective to start from the beginning, not to try to fix what is broken.

kirito.4138:

Skyhammer is fine.

People just don’t realize that it is a different game mode which goes beyond conquest.

It’s actually conquest on a higher level. You need to count more dodges, anticipate enemy skills/cd, positioning, and map awareness. Normally you can miss a few of these and still be alive in typical conquest, but in skyhammer you are punish severely or handsomely rewarded.

The handful that do realize simply refuse to switch to a build/play-style suited for the map. Which leaves the select few that do adapt to wreck havoc on them.

The map is too easy though, I just run around, do a stealth combo and pull enemies for free, undodgeable kills. Requires almost no skill and takes the fun away.
If you do play it normally, chances are other people will just stealh pull/fear combo you for free no-skill-required kills.

Easy just isn’t fun and most kills feel like cheating.

Other than that, the map has many bugs (see my previous comment); which has also nothing to do with ‘learning’ to play.

Okay, map has two problems IMO. I’ll go over the features of the map first, then suggest changes.

1. Instagib fall platforms. There are a few sets of them.

1. The ones around the Skyhammer.
2. The ones around A and C.
3. The ones in the ‘underways’.
4. The ones underneath B.

2. The Skyhammer. There are two comparisons to make here; the Trebuchet on Khylo and the Cannon on Capricorn. The Skyhammer is just plain more powerful than both of them.

1. Comparing it to the Trebuchet. The Trebuchet has a few points that make it a more interesting feature of the map.
a. It uses siege controls. You need to turn it around and you have to charge its fire. This gives it a higher skill cap; you not only need to know where to shoot but you also need to charge properly and aim properly. There is an element of execution to the operation of the trebuchet that does not exist with the Skyhammer.
b. It uses a projectile. This gives it two things; variable travel time, and interaction with projectiles.
c. It can be dodged/blocked/etc. Pretty straightforward.
2. Capricorn cannon:
1. Targets in the same way as the skyhammer.
2. Projectile. Most notably, bad shots will be blocked by features of the map. You cannot hit everything. This (should) fill roughly the same role as the underways and the hideout at B. It also means that you can destroy and reflect the cannon shots with certain skills.
3. Requires ammo. This is the biggy; if you’re using the cannon, you can only use it for so many shots before you need to pull off.
4. You can’t threaten every point.

It’s more valid to compare the Skyhammer to the Capricorn Cannon, IMO, because of how targeting works as well as the distance from the Hammer/Cannon to the points.

Thus;

1. Bring Skyhammer more in line with other maps’ weapons.
2. Reduce lethality of platforms around Skyhammer and A+B.
3. Make the underway a more relevant feature of the map.

1a. Make the Skyhammer interact normally with blocks/dodges/etc. There is no reason a more effective trebuchet should be even more effective.
b. Reduce the size. Skyhammer AOE is larger than all the other map weapons.

2a. The set of platforms around the Skyhammer should have catchers underneath them to catch people who fall into them. Have them provide an easy path to A and C, depending on which side the player falls on, and a moderate path back to the central pit. Maybe lower the skyhammer platform to accomodate this.
b. The platforms at A and C should also have a catcher, which leads them to the underway entrance near the alternate spawn gate.
c+d. The platforms in the underway and underneath B should not be changed. This is what the underway is for; it’s a choice between fatal platform falls and the Skyhammer.

3a. Close the vertical entrances into the underway- the holes directly above the platforms in them. This makes them a safe haven from the Skyhammer.
b. The underway goes all the way around to point B from each side. You can go from the tunnel entrances near A and C without going above ground.

3 isn’t necessary. I think 1 and 2 are. Full-on ringouts from A+C are fine as they’re more difficult to achieve than platform kills. Ringouts from the Skyhammer are kinda eh, but putting catchers with paths out there will reduce the risk.

Make the glass not break.

Make the aoe for the hammer 20% smaller.

Skyhammer dramatically improved.

Make the hammer shots be dodge-able again.

Remove the portal to get to the hammer so people can’t abuse it to engage/ disengage/ know when someone’s coming to prep a KB or pull for a kill. Just have it far away from the other nodes so if a team heavily favors canon control they’ll sacrifice node pressure.

Lukin.4061:

If you have failed at the core part of design it is much more cost effective to start from the beginning, not to try to fix what is broken.

except it’s actually a well designed map, but people just can’t stand the fact that CC plays a bigger role in it, so they have to “fix it” by diminishing its importance.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Lukin.4061:

If you have failed at the core part of design it is much more cost effective to start from the beginning, not to try to fix what is broken.

except it’s actually a well designed map, but people just can’t stand the fact that CC plays a bigger role in it, so they have to “fix it” by diminishing its importance.

>bigger role
>if you stop paying attention for half a second, half of the classes in the game can instagib you

i think you’re understating the situation a little

Sarrs.4831:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Lukin.4061:

If you have failed at the core part of design it is much more cost effective to start from the beginning, not to try to fix what is broken.

except it’s actually a well designed map, but people just can’t stand the fact that CC plays a bigger role in it, so they have to “fix it” by diminishing its importance.

>bigger role
>if you stop paying attention for half a second, half of the classes in the game can instagib you

i think you’re understating the situation a little

then pay attention?

The problem is…..Will Anet read this thread?

BrunoBRS.5178:

then pay attention?

let’s use EVIL INTERNET SORCERY to move the emphasis to where it was supposed to be

Sarrs.4831:

>bigger role
>if you stop paying attention for half a second, half of the classes in the game can instagib you

If you stop paying attention for half a second anywhere else, do you have a real chance of being instantly killed?

The problem isn’t “you’re not paying attention, you’re a bad”- you definitely should be paying attention and the more attention you pay, the better off you’ll be. The problem is that not paying attention in these areas of the map has more negative feedback than anywhere else in the game.

the best fix for skyhammer makes a pretty mushroom cloud

Clip.6845:

kirito.4138:

Skyhammer is fine.

People just don’t realize that it is a different game mode which goes beyond conquest.

It’s actually conquest on a higher level. You need to count more dodges, anticipate enemy skills/cd, positioning, and map awareness. Normally you can miss a few of these and still be alive in typical conquest, but in skyhammer you are punish severely or handsomely rewarded.

The handful that do realize simply refuse to switch to a build/play-style suited for the map. Which leaves the select few that do adapt to wreck havoc on them.

The map is too easy though, I just run around, do a stealth combo and pull enemies for free, undodgeable kills. Requires almost no skill and takes the fun away.
If you do play it normally, chances are other people will just stealh pull/fear combo you for free no-skill-required kills.

Easy just isn’t fun and most kills feel like cheating.

Other than that, the map has many bugs (see my previous comment); which has also nothing to do with ‘learning’ to play.

Too easy because vast majority of people don’t know how to play the map yet, and just QQ.

Stealth pulls is very avoidable, but you need to watch for the signs. Hmm, you see or hear glass panel breaking better have stun breaker/porting ability ready. If you don’t have the CD, then re-position. Timely anticipatory dodge will negate the pulls if you are out of CDs. Fighting for a node for over 30seconds? Get ready to be pulled or skyhammered since you are likely doing it wrong. People masquerade and dismiss the skyhammer falls as cheap or no skill, but it actually their lack of skill to avoid it.

Once in a blue moon, you’ll play a game where everyone knows how to play. Those games are pretty fun.

kirito.4138:

Clip.6845:

kirito.4138:

Skyhammer is fine.

People just don’t realize that it is a different game mode which goes beyond conquest.

It’s actually conquest on a higher level. You need to count more dodges, anticipate enemy skills/cd, positioning, and map awareness. Normally you can miss a few of these and still be alive in typical conquest, but in skyhammer you are punish severely or handsomely rewarded.

The handful that do realize simply refuse to switch to a build/play-style suited for the map. Which leaves the select few that do adapt to wreck havoc on them.

The map is too easy though, I just run around, do a stealth combo and pull enemies for free, undodgeable kills. Requires almost no skill and takes the fun away.
If you do play it normally, chances are other people will just stealh pull/fear combo you for free no-skill-required kills.

Easy just isn’t fun and most kills feel like cheating.

Other than that, the map has many bugs (see my previous comment); which has also nothing to do with ‘learning’ to play.

Too easy because vast majority of people don’t know how to play the map yet, and just QQ.

Stealth pulls is very avoidable, but you need to watch for the signs. Hmm, you see or hear glass panel breaking better have stun breaker/porting ability ready. If you don’t have the CD, then re-position. Timely anticipatory dodge will negate the pulls if you are out of CDs. Fighting for a node for over 30seconds? Get ready to be pulled or skyhammered since you are likely doing it wrong. People masquerade and dismiss the skyhammer falls as cheap or no skill, but it actually their lack of skill to avoid it.

Once in a blue moon, you’ll play a game where everyone knows how to play. Those games are pretty fun.

but it’s easier to whine.

i’m pretty sure every class has a spec that either excels offensively or defensively in the map. just don’t play a game of attrition. wasn’t everyone so nostalgic of the burst meta, where fights ended before they started?

I like the skyhammer map…. so long as I am playing a class that has access to the instant kill combos. Skyhammer favors certain classes over others and thats not fair imo. Ranger is a nightmare to play in skyhammer. If you use ranger sword then you have to be EXTREMELY careful because your autoattack will almost always send you off the cliff. All of the stairs and platforms confuse pets/minions and most of the time they are on the other side of the map when you need them.

I like the fall to your death mechanic. It gives pushes/pulls interesting utility;but they should have spread it out among multiple maps instead of placing it all in the same place.

sendaf.8375:

I like the skyhammer map…. so long as I am playing a class that has access to the instant kill combos. Skyhammer favors certain classes over others and thats not fair imo. Ranger is a nightmare to play in skyhammer. If you use ranger sword then you have to be EXTREMELY careful because your autoattack will almost always send you off the cliff. All of the stairs and platforms confuse pets/minions and most of the time they are on the other side of the map when you need them.

I like the fall to your death mechanic. It gives pushes/pulls interesting utility;but they should have spread it out among multiple maps instead of placing it all in the same place.

LB + wolf. ranger is easy on skyhammer.

the problem with skyhammer is that it requires specific builds, and while the build maker is an improvement, we can’t quickly save/load specs, which would make it easy to play the desired build for the map.

My idea was:

Located below B would be a secondary capturable objective:
Gravity Stabilizers: While captured, Capture Points under your team’s control will periodically grant Stability to allies.
Grants 5 seconds Stability every 10 second pulse.

BrunoBRS.5178:

LB + wolf. ranger is easy on skyhammer.

the problem with skyhammer is that it requires specific builds, and while the build maker is an improvement, we can’t quickly save/load specs, which would make it easy to play the desired build for the map.

Agreed and on the rare occasions that I bring a LB I have a lot of fun joining in on the trollhammer map. I would love to get quick build swap templates like in GW1 but I don’t want to see this game go in a direction of having to swap to an optimal build for each map.

sendaf.8375:

BrunoBRS.5178:

LB + wolf. ranger is easy on skyhammer.

the problem with skyhammer is that it requires specific builds, and while the build maker is an improvement, we can’t quickly save/load specs, which would make it easy to play the desired build for the map.

Agreed and on the rare occasions that I bring a LB I have a lot of fun joining in on the trollhammer map. I would love to get quick build swap templates like in GW1 but I don’t want to see this game go in a direction of having to swap to an optimal build for each map.

a lot of players already do that. it’s usually just one utility, or one trait, but they do it. i don’t think this would turn GW2 into a game where map determines build, but that would allow devs to have more maps that play conquest more differently than the current attrition style.

kirito.4138:

Skyhammer is fine.

People just don’t realize that it is a different game mode which goes beyond conquest.

It’s actually conquest on a higher level. You need to count more dodges, anticipate enemy skills/cd, positioning, and map awareness. Normally you can miss a few of these and still be alive in typical conquest, but in skyhammer you are punish severely or handsomely rewarded.

The handful that do realize simply refuse to switch to a build/play-style suited for the map. Which leaves the select few that do adapt to wreck havoc on them.

If all professions could stealth and push 1 button to insta-kill…it STILL wouldn’t be “fine” as you claim.

No game is taken seriously when you can get 1 shot…especially by this level of cheese… plus some professions have more of the ability to do it than others.

Logic this obvious shouldn’t even need to be explained, but apparently you have found some contorted rationale to make it seem “fine”.

If Raid on Capricorn was so “imba” due to water combat that it had to be removed from even hotjoins, please explain the logic of how Skyhammer should be in rotation for ranked pvp.

I doubt you’ll respond, but I have popcorn and a good chuckle waiting for your next display of “logic”.

SPESHAL.9106:

kirito.4138:

Skyhammer is fine.

People just don’t realize that it is a different game mode which goes beyond conquest.

It’s actually conquest on a higher level. You need to count more dodges, anticipate enemy skills/cd, positioning, and map awareness. Normally you can miss a few of these and still be alive in typical conquest, but in skyhammer you are punish severely or handsomely rewarded.

The handful that do realize simply refuse to switch to a build/play-style suited for the map. Which leaves the select few that do adapt to wreck havoc on them.

If all professions could stealth and push 1 button to insta-kill…it STILL wouldn’t be “fine” as you claim.

No game is taken seriously when you can get 1 shot…especially by this level of cheese… plus some professions have more of the ability to do it than others.

Logic this obvious shouldn’t even need to be explained, but apparently you have found some contorted rationale to make it seem “fine”.

If Raid on Capricorn was so “imba” due to water combat that it had to be removed from even hotjoins, please explain the logic of how Skyhammer should be in rotation for ranked pvp.

I doubt you’ll respond, but I have popcorn and a good chuckle waiting for your next display of “logic”.

capricorn got removed because underwater combat is really underwhelming and lame, and since it was the only map that had it, it made no sense to add underwater weapons to the build maker just because of it.

Skyhammer is fine, but I endorse the OP.

Dont change the cannon, but add walls to the plattform and lower/shrink the breakable shields.
But I would place two destructible reactors on the map, instead of two consols.

These two (repairable) reactors provide the cannon with energy.
If one reactor is destroyed, the cannon do half dmg with a half radius.
If both are destroyed, the skyhammer is deactivated.

Also I think a good change could be a reduce in the base damage and give skyhammer new weaponskills, which create e.g. a fire-, poison-, or icefield.

Welp the ommunity is going through all the stages

Denial: im sure theyll remove this silly map from arena
Anger: remove skyhammer!
Bargaining: lets fix it!

Were just missing depression and acceptance,the later being the finalgoal of the pvp team

anet keeps doing this kitten , in the feature pack they are giving PvP exclusive armors and do nothing about overall map or build balance, raid of capricorn was fine while skyhammer can go eat live grenades, its not a fun map, dont even try defending it with next level PvP since it’s neither, its stale kitten that stagnates in the summer sun, and anet is too lazy with living story and swimming in their money to even bother making it actually fun.