Guild Wars 2

Cynz.9437:

as much as i can’t stand mesmers atm i don’t think those suggestions are good
what needs to happen is:
- shatter blind shouldn’t go through evades/dodge
- confounding suggestions should only stun when you actually interrupt something and should have decent ICD
- possibly move CS to other trait line so it has to compete with other good traits so mesmers can’t have all good things in 1
- mantras shouldn’t recharge in background as fast (arguably)
- passive phantasm 15% buff needs to be a trait again
- PU may need some adjustments in numbers

Yes.
I’m a Mesmer main, and while I think Mesmer is over the top by a bit, it is also so close to balanced.
You get what it needs, to stop people nerfing the wrong places, this is exactly what isn’t so right with Mesmer atm (imo).
Just to clarify I think Mantras should still recharge in the background but will need a CD increase to go along with it now (particularly on heal mantra).
PU should be reverted to what it was pre patch, the reason it wasn’t taken was because of the other necessary traits. Now that some of those have moved or are baseline, PU is a viable option without having to give up too much. It didn’t need a buff to be taken.
Edit: I do disagree with an ICD increase on CS, so long as the stun is only on interrupt it will be ok.

Cynz.9437:

as much as i can’t stand mesmers atm i don’t think those suggestions are good
what needs to happen is:
- shatter blind shouldn’t go through evades/dodge
- confounding suggestions should only stun when you actually interrupt something and should have decent ICD
- possibly move CS to other trait line so it has to compete with other good traits so mesmers can’t have all good things in 1
- mantras shouldn’t recharge in background as fast (arguably)
- passive phantasm 15% buff needs to be a trait again
- PU may need some adjustments in numbers

I agree, i’d put PU on 33% stealth (instead of a 100%), basically 1 sec. more on a 3sec. Stealth skill, same like thief if he goes for sa.

And i’d revert the old cd on portal.

Cs is ok In domination but it needs icd and only stun on interrupt.

Arricson Krei.9560:

Changes I think would be fit, in addition to the previously made comments:

1. Phase Retreat can not be cast while under the effects of cc, while dodging, or while performing an action. Like The Prestige, it has no cast time, but you can’t cast The Prestige while cc’d, dodging, or using Blurred Frenzy and I think the change would be appropriate to the 10s recharge blink.
2. Power Lock can’t be cast while under the effects of cc. It would retain the instant cast time like all mantras, but can’t be used while cc’d. It seems a little stupid to be able to daze (or even stun when traited with Confounding Suggestions) somebody while cc’d. Can be used while dodging and while performing an action, however. All other mantras would remain untouched.
3. Mirror Blade can be blocked. I have zero clue why there’s a Unblockable slapped onto this trait. Yields too much damage at too high of a range. If it can be blocked, it’s fine.
4. Mind Stab. Cut the damage and scaling by 33-50%. Add a new function: If you remove a boon, deal 50-100% more damage, respectively. So right now it does 314(0.850), after the change; of, let’s say, 50% cut and 100% more damage on boon reap; it’ll do 157(0.425) without the boon reap, and 2*(157(0.425)). The before and after results don’t change the overall damage if a boon is removed, but do provide a small barrier to bursting someone with this skill.
5. Remove blind and aegis from chaos armor and Chaos Storm. RNG shouldn’t reward one with such powerful de/buffs. Replace with 3 stacks vulnerability/weakness and might, respectively.
6. ICD on Blinding Dissipation. Make a significantly large ICD if implementing this effect: Blind your illusions’ targets and foes around you when you use a shatter skill. (Would reward positioning illusions, may also need to reduce the blind duration by 1 or 2s). Consider eliminating this trait. It’s too good of a seemingly free handout when shattering without the intention of blinding foes.
7. Revert Illusionary Persona baseline. I feel like this nerf would be too much, but it needs to be accessible. Right now, Chaos and Inspiration seem to be the dominating trait lines alongside Dueling/Domination. Placing IP in the Grandmaster slot of Illusions, and sending Malicious Sorcery somewhere else seems fair.

Quantitatively, these changes seem like a lot, but implementing these changes would put Mesmers closer with the rest of the classes. They have too much going for them right now and that’s because of their design and freebies.

1. Phase Retreat is a teleport skill, and because of that, it can be activated while using other skills, just like all other teleport skills in the game. If you want to change it, you will change all these skills: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Teleport

2. If you change that you will have to change all mantras, which negates the puropus of this type of skills: High cast time to have instant sequence skills.

3. Mesmer is the profession with the least amount of unblockable skills, with just 4 and 3 being control based. Eliminating the unblockable part of Mirror Blade would put the mesmer in a clear disadvantage of being the only class without an unblockable damage skill.

4. Mind Stab is more than find as it is. In fact, before it was buffed to actual state it was a useless skill. There was also an official debate in this forum about the changes.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Discussion-Mind-Stab-Rework/first

5. Chaos Storm is OK how it is. Staff is all about RNG, autoattack, chaos storm and armor have huge RNG on them.
Making Chaos Storm less RNG would make it way more predictable, and the defition of “Chaos” would be somewhat lost. Also it could become extremely OP with and AoE pulsing daze or a completely useless skill.

6. iCD is not what BD needs. What it needs is to not to proc. when dodging, blocking or evading. The CD of BD is already determinated by shatters. And blinding on illusions is bad as hell, since you cannot determinate their position.
In the point 4 you are willing for less RNG, and here you put the most RNG possible thing on mesmers.

7. IP being baseline is a must. Mesmers are so crippled without it, that to understand it you would need to add trigger chance to attunements swap, no initiative recharge through time, Death Shroud not having a separated health pool, rangers stuck with only 1 uncontrolled pet…
IP is a fundamental thing for this profession. The reason why DE was so important before patch was we needed tons of clones production to make sure we had the tools to make shatters 100% reliable.
Making it choosable again would turn shatter builds obligated to take it, and all others to forget about shatter mechanic.

These changes would put mesmers in a horrible position, going back pre-patch where shatter builds were the only thing good for competitive.

I like to be the first to willingly admit my faults and agree that I need to L2P against the class due to the different, yet consistent, posts here. I could go into detail but in short, my initial one sided experiences was the direct result of my original post. Thanks

Many professions have a stun+burst combo. Rangers lb4 /fear + rapid shot, or thief’s steal + I kill your family shots. Maybe problem is that if you escape those skills, you are safe for 20 seconds. But mesmers mantra has 3 charges so that requires stability to cancel. And there are still many players who (in the name of maximum damage optinization) does not have any condi removal or stun break. Maybe some of you with a large guild should try these combos with proper characters and equipments i. Zerker is not the only set type. There are beautiful combo’s, runes and sigils. That might give results.

Ps: I was a condi pu mesmer player when others mop the floor with us so I am quite happ. Except the bug of blind it seems ok.

Ansau.7326:

1. Phase Retreat is a teleport skill, and because of that, it can be activated while using other skills, just like all other teleport skills in the game. If you want to change it, you will change all these skills: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Teleport

2. If you change that you will have to change all mantras, which negates the puropus of this type of skills: High cast time to have instant sequence skills.

3. Mesmer is the profession with the least amount of unblockable skills, with just 4 and 3 being control based. Eliminating the unblockable part of Mirror Blade would put the mesmer in a clear disadvantage of being the only class without an unblockable damage skill.

4. Mind Stab is more than find as it is. In fact, before it was buffed to actual state it was a useless skill. There was also an official debate in this forum about the changes.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Discussion-Mind-Stab-Rework/first

5. Chaos Storm is OK how it is. Staff is all about RNG, autoattack, chaos storm and armor have huge RNG on them.
Making Chaos Storm less RNG would make it way more predictable, and the defition of “Chaos” would be somewhat lost. Also it could become extremely OP with and AoE pulsing daze or a completely useless skill.

6. iCD is not what BD needs. What it needs is to not to proc. when dodging, blocking or evading. The CD of BD is already determinated by shatters. And blinding on illusions is bad as hell, since you cannot determinate their position.
In the point 4 you are willing for less RNG, and here you put the most RNG possible thing on mesmers.

7. IP being baseline is a must. Mesmers are so crippled without it, that to understand it you would need to add trigger chance to attunements swap, no initiative recharge through time, Death Shroud not having a separated health pool, rangers stuck with only 1 uncontrolled pet…
IP is a fundamental thing for this profession. The reason why DE was so important before patch was we needed tons of clones production to make sure we had the tools to make shatters 100% reliable.
Making it choosable again would turn shatter builds obligated to take it, and all others to forget about shatter mechanic.

These changes would put mesmers in a horrible position, going back pre-patch where shatter builds were the only thing good for competitive.

Just because a skill is categorized a certain way shouldn’t exempt it from being an exception. Balance > Consistency.
If Mesmer needs more unblockable, damage-oriented skills, Mirror Blade shouldn’t be the one. It’s range and damage potential is superior and homes on targets. However, it doesn’t choose the targets it bounces to. If greatsword were to have an unblockable skill, I’d vote for Mind Stab. Either that, or a trait that makes Phantasm creation upon a target unblockable with an ICD.
RNG has no place in a competitive setting.
@6, I’ll give you the first portion, but my suggestion on number 6 has no indication of RNG. If I wasn’t clear that time, illusions will blind their targets upon “detonation” in addition to the player blinding foes around it. Positioning of the player, illusions, or enemies has nothing to do with RNG. Players should be rewarded if they can successfully line up 3 illusions to blind their targets one after another, for a maximum of 3 missed hits.
If IP was put into Illusions, and people chose Domination, Dueling, and X, they would have to decide among different forms of Sustain in Chaos and Inspiration, or Damage in Illusions. Right now, Baseline IP is nothing more than an extra damage boost to F1, a tricky daze on F3, and an extra second of invuln on F4. I’m fine with F1 and F3, but players should have to sacrifice an illusion to generate a second of Invuln.

Ansau.7326:

1. Phase Retreat is a teleport skill, and because of that, it can be activated while using other skills, just like all other teleport skills in the game. If you want to change it, you will change all these skills: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Teleport

2. If you change that you will have to change all mantras, which negates the puropus of this type of skills: High cast time to have instant sequence skills.

3. Mesmer is the profession with the least amount of unblockable skills, with just 4 and 3 being control based. Eliminating the unblockable part of Mirror Blade would put the mesmer in a clear disadvantage of being the only class without an unblockable damage skill.

4. Mind Stab is more than find as it is. In fact, before it was buffed to actual state it was a useless skill. There was also an official debate in this forum about the changes.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Discussion-Mind-Stab-Rework/first

5. Chaos Storm is OK how it is. Staff is all about RNG, autoattack, chaos storm and armor have huge RNG on them.
Making Chaos Storm less RNG would make it way more predictable, and the defition of “Chaos” would be somewhat lost. Also it could become extremely OP with and AoE pulsing daze or a completely useless skill.

6. iCD is not what BD needs. What it needs is to not to proc. when dodging, blocking or evading. The CD of BD is already determinated by shatters. And blinding on illusions is bad as hell, since you cannot determinate their position.
In the point 4 you are willing for less RNG, and here you put the most RNG possible thing on mesmers.

7. IP being baseline is a must. Mesmers are so crippled without it, that to understand it you would need to add trigger chance to attunements swap, no initiative recharge through time, Death Shroud not having a separated health pool, rangers stuck with only 1 uncontrolled pet…
IP is a fundamental thing for this profession. The reason why DE was so important before patch was we needed tons of clones production to make sure we had the tools to make shatters 100% reliable.
Making it choosable again would turn shatter builds obligated to take it, and all others to forget about shatter mechanic.

These changes would put mesmers in a horrible position, going back pre-patch where shatter builds were the only thing good for competitive.

1. no weapon skills should be castable under the effects of CC whatsoever. there is absolutely no excuse for this. thief’s Infiltrator’s Strike was once castable while CC’d, and this was clearly overpowered. there is zero reason why any weapon skill, whether it be Shield of Wrath, Obsidian Flesh, or Phase Retreat, should be usable while under the effects of CC. there are indeed other “teleports” or “shadowsteps” that can’t be used while CC’d or using another ability so you’re wrong.

3. you’re wrong again. in terms of meta builds, mesmer is the only profession to have an unblockable damage dealing attack without having to trait or use utilities to do so. the only other professions that can deal damage through block with just weapon skills are thief and ele, using s/d and s/f respectively. both of which have completely fallen out of popular use.

6. if you want Blinding Dissipation to be balanced as a master level trait, then an ICD is exactly what it needs ALONGSIDE it being fixed to no longer go through evades, blocks, and invulns. without an ICD it needs to be moved to grandmaster and allowed to only go through blocks. it’s that simple. also, Blinding Dissipation only inflicts AoE blind around the mesmer themselves, not their clones/phantasms.

7. this is a very popular self-victimization argument by many mesmer players. mesmers, with or without baseline Illusionary Persona have always gone with power shatter as their meta build. it was the meta build then, and it’s the meta build now. justifying a popular grandmaster trait becoming baseline means that all professions deserve this treatment. by your logic, thief deserves baseline Slight of Hand because we otherwise have always traited for it in our meta builds, the same going for elementalist’s Evasive Arcana, or warrior’s Cleansing Ire.

Making these skills unusable while cc’ed will actually make burst specs better, since there is less counterplay against them.

or a trait that makes Phantasm creation upon a target unblockable with an ICD.

That…doesn’t actually make any sense at all.

Mirror Blade is actually the one skill that keeps GS from being like old rangers LB, only being good for pew pew’ing people at range. If Unblockable is a problem for you, take a look at ele focus, guard shield, sword or any other weapon that does “destroy” projectiles. Those don’t count as block and do in fact counter Mirror Blade.

Actually, unblockable projectiles do go through skills that ‘destroy’ projectiles. You can test it pretty easily yourself.

I see, it says so on Swirling Winds’ and Shield of Absorption’s wiki pages, but not on Zealot’s Defense. I actually expected this to work and think it should be changed this way.

I’m glad you people don’t design games because I’d never play them.

Most of what I’ve read here is personal vigilante justice against the mesmer class. Primarily due them getting much needed buffs and now that you people can’t kill them 90% of the time, you ask to revert them pre-patch status.

This literally comes down to L2P because you don’t want to change the way you PvP a mesmer as you just enjoy running in spamming abilities.

The three things that we as mesmers are asking to change are:

1) CS
2) BD
3) PU

The uninformed and uneducated are asking for crazy nerfs/changes because you can’t wrap your head around the updates and how the game changed since 6/23.

Yes those 3 and the removal of background mantra CDs.

sinject.4607:

Ansau.7326:

1. Phase Retreat is a teleport skill, and because of that, it can be activated while using other skills, just like all other teleport skills in the game. If you want to change it, you will change all these skills: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Teleport

2. If you change that you will have to change all mantras, which negates the puropus of this type of skills: High cast time to have instant sequence skills.

3. Mesmer is the profession with the least amount of unblockable skills, with just 4 and 3 being control based. Eliminating the unblockable part of Mirror Blade would put the mesmer in a clear disadvantage of being the only class without an unblockable damage skill.

4. Mind Stab is more than find as it is. In fact, before it was buffed to actual state it was a useless skill. There was also an official debate in this forum about the changes.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Discussion-Mind-Stab-Rework/first

5. Chaos Storm is OK how it is. Staff is all about RNG, autoattack, chaos storm and armor have huge RNG on them.
Making Chaos Storm less RNG would make it way more predictable, and the defition of “Chaos” would be somewhat lost. Also it could become extremely OP with and AoE pulsing daze or a completely useless skill.

6. iCD is not what BD needs. What it needs is to not to proc. when dodging, blocking or evading. The CD of BD is already determinated by shatters. And blinding on illusions is bad as hell, since you cannot determinate their position.
In the point 4 you are willing for less RNG, and here you put the most RNG possible thing on mesmers.

7. IP being baseline is a must. Mesmers are so crippled without it, that to understand it you would need to add trigger chance to attunements swap, no initiative recharge through time, Death Shroud not having a separated health pool, rangers stuck with only 1 uncontrolled pet…
IP is a fundamental thing for this profession. The reason why DE was so important before patch was we needed tons of clones production to make sure we had the tools to make shatters 100% reliable.
Making it choosable again would turn shatter builds obligated to take it, and all others to forget about shatter mechanic.

These changes would put mesmers in a horrible position, going back pre-patch where shatter builds were the only thing good for competitive.

1. no weapon skills should be castable under the effects of CC whatsoever. there is absolutely no excuse for this. thief’s Infiltrator’s Strike was once castable while CC’d, and this was clearly overpowered. there is zero reason why any weapon skill, whether it be Shield of Wrath, Obsidian Flesh, or Phase Retreat, should be usable while under the effects of CC. there are indeed other “teleports” or “shadowsteps” that can’t be used while CC’d or using another ability so you’re wrong.

3. you’re wrong again. in terms of meta builds, mesmer is the only profession to have an unblockable damage dealing attack without having to trait or use utilities to do so. the only other professions that can deal damage through block with just weapon skills are thief and ele, using s/d and s/f respectively. both of which have completely fallen out of popular use.

6. if you want Blinding Dissipation to be balanced as a master level trait, then an ICD is exactly what it needs ALONGSIDE it being fixed to no longer go through evades, blocks, and invulns. without an ICD it needs to be moved to grandmaster and allowed to only go through blocks. it’s that simple. also, Blinding Dissipation only inflicts AoE blind around the mesmer themselves, not their clones/phantasms.

7. this is a very popular self-victimization argument by many mesmer players. mesmers, with or without baseline Illusionary Persona have always gone with power shatter as their meta build. it was the meta build then, and it’s the meta build now. justifying a popular grandmaster trait becoming baseline means that all professions deserve this treatment. by your logic, thief deserves baseline Slight of Hand because we otherwise have always traited for it in our meta builds, the same going for elementalist’s Evasive Arcana, or warrior’s Cleansing Ire.

Responding to your number 6, you make it seem like adept, master, and grandmaster traits have meaning in their placement. After the patch the only value it holds is merely what traits it has to compete with in each tier. You could move all the grand master traits and swap them out with the adepts and it will make no difference because once you pick one core specialization, you’re focred to go all the way down the line. Once they fix blinding dissipation to not go through evades the trait will be fine.

TLDR: Stop over complicating things as an excuse to suggest unwarranted nerfs.

Chokolata.1870:

Yes those 3 and the removal of background mantra CDs.

Background charging is a QoL improvement, so we don’t have to swap out the mantra and re-equip it if we only needed 1 or 2 (traited) charges. This doesn’t even work in ranked PvP, so we have to either burn the last charge somewhere and recharge or have to hamper ourself by beginning the next fight with less charges.

I do admit that mantras (especially the heal and most probably MoD, too) need a cd increase to make up for the background recharge, though.

phokus.8934:

This is the most ridiculous post about “fixing” mesmers I’ve ever seen.

I find it comical that non-mesmers try to fix other classes.

While mesmer-mains are protecting the class and throwing 99% of the suggestions into oblivion..

Oooh the irony…

Terrorsquad.4802:

phokus.8934:

This is the most ridiculous post about “fixing” mesmers I’ve ever seen.

I find it comical that non-mesmers try to fix other classes.

While mesmer-mains are protecting the class and throwing 99% of the suggestions into oblivion..

Oooh the irony…

Because we’ve already largely agreed on the issues that need dealing with – definitely PU and CS, some for Blinding Dissipation and MoD (due to background recharging).

The other “99%” of suggestions are misguided nonsense.

Curunen.8729:

Terrorsquad.4802:

phokus.8934:

This is the most ridiculous post about “fixing” mesmers I’ve ever seen.

I find it comical that non-mesmers try to fix other classes.

While mesmer-mains are protecting the class and throwing 99% of the suggestions into oblivion..

Oooh the irony…

Because we’ve already largely agreed on the issues that need dealing with – definitely PU and CS, some for Blinding Dissipation and MoD (due to background recharging).

The other “99%” of suggestions are misguided nonsense.

Weird, u already stated 75% of the suggested “misguided nonsense” in that same comment.

CS, blind shatter, and the Pledge are my biggest problems with Mesmer.

CS, just get rid of it (sorry mesmers, but I just don’t think this trait should even exist)
AOE Blind on shatter needs a ICD, like 10 seconds.
Get rid of CD traits that promotes staying in stealth, return it to flat reduction.

Arricson Krei.9560:

“Mirror Blade can be blocked. I have zero clue why there’s a Unblockable slapped onto this trait. Yields too much damage at too high of a range. If it can be blocked, it’s fine.”

If you don’t have a clue why mirror blade is unblockable, you probably don’t know much about the game, im glad you aren’t balancing. If it weren’t unblockable, a player reflecting a mirror blade would get a clone of his own attacking the mesmer- that is just how clone generating projectiles work in this game (see scepter). That’s also why things like earth dagger 3 on ele is unblockable- it would create some weird functionality if it weren’t. That being said, i think mesmer does need nerfs, but then again, i don’t even play the game anymore so i don’t mind.

Realistic way to nerf Mesmers? is to learn2play so we can stop pretending they are OP. witch is not the case.

my 2 cents

Quadox.7834:

Arricson Krei.9560:

“Mirror Blade can be blocked. I have zero clue why there’s a Unblockable slapped onto this trait. Yields too much damage at too high of a range. If it can be blocked, it’s fine.”

If you don’t have a clue why mirror blade is unblockable, you probably don’t know much about the game, im glad you aren’t balancing. If it weren’t unblockable, a player reflecting a mirror blade would get a clone of his own attacking the mesmer- that is just how clone generating projectiles work in this game (see scepter). That’s also why things like earth dagger 3 on ele is unblockable- it would create some weird functionality if it weren’t. That being said, i think mesmer does need nerfs, but then again, i don’t even play the game anymore so i don’t mind.

Nothing kittening wrong with that. Thats how reflection works. See scepter auto.

You don’t play the game anymore? Get out of balance discussions.

On topic: Background recharging needs to be removed. 10s ICD on blinding dissipation. And one of the following needs to happen: CS and PU get gutted, casting mantras reveals you, or MoD gets knocked down to 1 charge 600 range.

These aren’t realistic nerfs to Mesmer.

If a Mesmer loses stealth when it uses any skill in combat, this would be applied to stealth as a whole and therefore require quite a significant change in the way stealth works. Therefore it’s very unlikely that such a thing would ever happen. I’m happy to see some significant stealth changes, but I highly doubt they will ever come.

I don’t think anyone is struggling with dodging illusions that are running at them. One of the easiest things to dodge in the game right now is a bunch of illusions running at you from a distance. I think most people struggle with having a shatter done right on top of them at which point illusion running speed is irrelevant because the damage occurs within 0.5-1.5 seconds max. Anyway, Chronomancer is getting a trait that gives shattered clones super speed so yeah…

I don’t understand why Diversion shouldn’t remove stability. It’s a CC skill so should therefore protect the target from its effect by removing a stack of stability. Also, as far as I know, Diversion will only remove more than one stack of stability if the clones are staggered so each one hits individually (the daze does not stack). Even if you take Master of Fragmentation to make Diversion hit 5 targets instead of one, that’s 1 stack of stability per target. If a Mesmer manages to stagger Diversion in such a way that more than one target is hit with 3-4 subsequent dazes that removes all stacks of stability then the stars have aligned for that Mesmer, or that Mesmer is fighting PvE mobs/ stacked groups of AFK LB Rangers sitting in their Healing Springs.

Shattered Concentration will strip you of your stability anyway unless you’ve got it covered by other boons, so Diversion is the least of your worries.

Zatoichi.1049:

CS, blind shatter, and the Pledge are my biggest problems with Mesmer.

CS, just get rid of it (sorry mesmers, but I just don’t think this trait should even exist)
AOE Blind on shatter needs a ICD, like 10 seconds.
Get rid of CD traits that promotes staying in stealth, return it to flat reduction.

The Pledge? Boy, I think I’ve now seen every mesmer trait called OP on these forums. The CD reduction isn’t even that good on power builds, and come close to the original 20% only on PU condi builds. That being said, it’s now an adept trait, so it’s probably balanced.

Well, they fixed the Blinding Dissipation bug. They didn’t fix CS, but reduced the burst on mirror blade and removed the background recharge on mantras. The change to mirror blade sounds good in that it will reduce the burst potential by a fair amount.

The changes to mantra recharge might just push more mesmers to play PU, though, so they can camp stealth to reset the mantra cooldowns.

Saiyan.1704:

.

• When they Shatter, make clones walk 15% slower.

heh…hehe…..hehehehe..hehehaahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA