Really sick of Eles and Engis
Yeah totally agree. Fed up playing against 2 celestial eng + 2 celestial d/d….. But i think eng is more cheat un celestial as en.
Anet plz fix celestial this méta is totally broken for a few build used by everybody.
I have no issues with Ele’s or engis.
Please fix warriors.
Sincerely…
Jokes aside turret engi’s and ele’s are difficult but competent team can just rotate around their turrets and out play their engi.
Lately i’ve been getting double downs states with everyone except warriors who seem to out play me, from time to time.
If top NA teams are saying to nerf ‘said’ class then sure, maybe I’ll take threads like this seriously.
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Has always been the way.
Anet listens to “successful” teams who are successful because their mains are OP. So they listen to people with vested interests. And it results in long standing and boring situations.
Been that way since release.
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.
Yea I can confirm. Yesterday I got this team with 2 turret engis, 2 celestial engis and 1 d/d ele. Its ridiculous how you can have 4 same classes and still be pretty strong. And yes they were a premade
Has always been the way.
Anet listens to “successful” teams who are successful because their mains are OP. So they listen to people with vested interests. And it results in long standing and boring situations.
Been that way since release.
pretty much…i mean…just look at wts lol
the game is just boring with this meta, tank meta full prot & heal & dispell.
a 2v2 can take 4min, boring.
Celestial must be nerf, balanced, what you want.
Wait until you run into a 5 man turret engi team.
It’s kittening ridiculous.
There’s a balance between some classes that not everyone see.
For example: ele actually is powerfull because everyone use conditions and ele can clean of condition easy, very easy. But I play a warrior and I can kill a ele easy with dps and a little of pressure by CC or AoE. Engi can obtain protect very easy by turrets and traits and is hard to kill by a direct damage dealer because have a lot of condition, and CC skills, but my friend play a necro and kill every engi he find on his way with not all that problems that I have with my warrior.
There’s a balance over the classes.
The current meta make some classes be more counter-like, but there’s situations, classes and builds that can make you kill that enemy “easy”.
The big problem is the AoE of this game, AoE that engi and ele can use with a large amount of skills. Ele with staff can spam AoE all the time or a DD can obtain some AoE by dagger (earth skill 5 for example). Engi can throw granades all the time in AoE mode, hitting all his enemy at once, or hit multiple enemy with turrets.
But there’s other classes that can obtain AoE skills.
Actually there’s not a problem of balance, there’s a problem of AoE. And to fix that ANet need to make a big rework over all classes… a rework that you will never see.
So what is the trick to beating engis?
A lot of their builds seem to do massive aoe damage and be extremely durable. I find them quite different to say a tanky guardian who are very hard to kill but don’t do much damage and don’t have that much aoe, at least not really strong aoe or seemingly perpetual uptime on swiftness and other boons.
If a team has two decent engis, it feels very strong, because everything near them is taking a lot of damage and getting cc’d, and from what I have seen they can kill almost anything 1vs1 and sometimes 1vs2 (or at least force a retreat, or enough time to get backup). Is there some specific counter build that makes mincemeat of them?
Trick to killing engi’s and ele’s is buff removal. Condi necro does the trick fine.
This meta is decent because it keeps anti-fun braindead evade/invuln frame spam classes like Mesmer and Ranger out of the picture.
What are you going to take away from engi and ele? Cleave damage? You can’t simply take that away evade classes like Mesmer or Ranger are going to be the next cancer.
If you’re saying nerf Celestial, I agree that the tankiness needs to be shaved.
If you’re saying take away their stun breaks, I kinda agree for Ele but Engi stun breaks are already bad.
The meta right now is very close to balance in all honesty ever since Jsharp has left. Now we just need to shave certain things. And maybe better boon stripping options for sigils.
The amount of CC by engi’s is just too high.
I want cele to be nerfed, not because it is obscenely broken or anything, but because the game gets sooo much slower and more boring with it. Same goes with soldier/cele intelligence warrior. I know most people won’t agree with me but i’d be happy if pvp only had zerker, cleric and rabid amulet. (Although that would limit the already small build diversity)
^ Usually only characer that i play on
You know the situation is just ridiculous.
People complain about Ranger also . . . . but come on, the have range burst but they can be kill relative easy.
But but but a engi . . . heal hal cc burn bleed cc burn bust cc cc cc heal again . . . and if they are dying . . . i dare you . . . I DOUBLE DARE YOU to chase them . . . suicide.
And ele . . .w ell i don’t want to be repetitive.
the game is just boring with this meta, tank meta full prot & heal & dispell.
a 2v2 can take 4min, boring.
Celestial must be nerf, balanced, what you want.
This is LOL.
This isn’t tank meta at all compared to the past.
The meta is burst with sustain builds
Actually there’s not a problem of balance, there’s a problem of AoE. And to fix that ANet need to make a big rework over all classes… a rework that you will never see.
lordy lordy he speaks the truth
at least it’s not Wildstar…you can’t even tell whats going on with all that aoe insanity in that game.
Bring PPK back to WvW!!!
Actually there’s not a problem of balance, there’s a problem of AoE. And to fix that ANet need to make a big rework over all classes… a rework that you will never see.
lordy lordy he speaks the truth
at least it’s not Wildstar…you can’t even tell whats going on with all that aoe insanity in that game.
And i would say not even AOE is the problem . .
AOE Burn fields and burn application is the issue IMO.
Both ele and engis have a lot of burn and CC . . . and heals . . . and burst . . . and mobility . . . well
Burn is a pin in the kitten . . . more if it is on AOE.
As a cele staff ele, I think we need some kind of buff, not nerf.
We die really quick to everything else, or at least I do with my own build (probably don’t have right traits/skills).
If anything, thieves, warriors (healing signet really), engies, and mesmers need nerfs. Stupid zerk/condi builds have to go. You shouldn’t be able to down people in 2 seconds.
Please give us a keyring…
As a cele staff ele, I think we need some kind of buff, not nerf.
We die really quick to everything else, or at least I do with my own build (probably don’t have right traits/skills).
If anything, thieves, warriors (healing signet really), engies, and mesmers need nerfs. Stupid zerk/condi builds have to go. You shouldn’t be able to down people in 2 seconds.
If you are dying too quickly it is your build. Staff ele is really obnoxious in the regards of how much sustain it has. You pretty much can get perma-regen going if you are able to blast your waterfields.
EDIT: You still can get bursted down by good bursty builds.
This meta is decent because it keeps anti-fun braindead evade/invuln frame spam classes like Mesmer and Ranger out of the picture.
What are you going to take away from engi and ele? Cleave damage? You can’t simply take that away evade classes like Mesmer or Ranger are going to be the next cancer.
If you’re saying nerf Celestial, I agree that the tankiness needs to be shaved.
If you’re saying take away their stun breaks, I kinda agree for Ele but Engi stun breaks are already bad.
The meta right now is very close to balance in all honesty ever since Jsharp has left. Now we just need to shave certain things. And maybe better boon stripping options for sigils.
Please show me these “evade” your talking about as I recall Anet nerfed out evades into the ground.
Twitch – Aussie Streamer
yes maybe it’s time to nerf ele and engi allready.
to many noobs get carried verry hard by this two professions.
zero fun to see double ele, double engi teams faceroll everything.
must be verry well balanced…
this two professions perform much to good right now, so shave this crap.
even the king op professsion warrior struggle with this two.
You know Anet just made a major change to SPVP interface and match mechanics . . . and all of that still gets shadowed by the fact that if you get a team with 2 engis . . . 2eles . . . or worst the combination of them you are dead by sure.
Seriously i would love to see a dev be transparent with this issue . . . . is like they don’t care a kitten.
I almost got my champion paragon title, so I want to say nothing and just become the meta.
You know the old saying ‘Cant beat em join em.’ Then the developers will act on the balance when they realize nobody is playing nothing but eles and engies.
Celestial != turret engi. Turret engi was “op” before the whole celestial meta. And to be honest, it isn’t that “OP” in the first place. Just range turrets and then take down the engi. If you want to play smart, let him have one node and be afk while your team outnumber the rest of the map. Also, as someone mentioned, necros or any class capable of stacking conditions are hard counter to engineers. If you keep in mind that and some of the important cds (wrench, supply crate, etc) you shouldn’t have problems.
Idk, all this sounds a lot to all the QQ about rangers when september patch went out.
Nerf might stacking into the ground for warrior/ele/eng.
Ex
Ele : dodge in earth is no longer a blast / water 3 on dagger is no longer a blast. Now the ele loses 200-300 power and condi damage while all other classes (ranger/guard/necro/mesmer) don’t have a nerfed celstial amulet.
Celestial != turret engi. Turret engi was “op” before the whole celestial meta. And to be honest, it isn’t that “OP” in the first place. Just range turrets and then take down the engi. If you want to play smart, let him have one node and be afk while your team outnumber the rest of the map. Also, as someone mentioned, necros or any class capable of stacking conditions are hard counter to engineers. If you keep in mind that and some of the important cds (wrench, supply crate, etc) you shouldn’t have problems.
Idk, all this sounds a lot to all the QQ about rangers when september patch went out.
Pretty hard to outrange rifle and rocket turrets; those turrets also have a pretty decent rate of fire for something that never misses, can’t be cc’d, and just does its thing automatically. Also I am not so sure about the conditions stacking being a counter since engis seem to have pretty good condition removal options depending on build.
The only counter I saw mentioned above was boon stripping and I don’t know of any class that can boon strip faster than an engi can reapply.
double engi/ele winning WTS…gg.
Nerf might stacking into the ground for warrior/ele/eng.
Ex
Ele : dodge in earth is no longer a blast / water 3 on dagger is no longer a blast. Now the ele loses 200-300 power and condi damage while all other classes (ranger/guard/necro/mesmer) don’t have a nerfed celstial amulet.
You cant nerf blast finishers for ele war while you dont do it for engi. Engis dont use blast finishers on cele rifle so its impossible to balance things this way.
If you want to nerf them you have to do it in a fair way which reduces might stacks of all the classes by the same amount. Thats also the reason why you cant reduce the max might stacks to ~10. That way you nerf eles and wars but engis stay as strong as they are.
If you want to nerf the blas on earth dodge then compensate it by giving it 3 bleed stacks instead of 1. Then again, thats the wrong approach.
Nerf hoelbrak/str and air fire sigils, everything else will hurt other classes/specs for which the nerf wasnt intended.
Seriously, so many people on these forums with nonsense ideas just to cry for nerfs.
The problem lies in the massive damage plus sustain. Take away the damage, or the sustain respectively. If the class is traited and such for sustain, then their damage is the issue. Find a way to nerf that. If they are traited and such for damage, then their sustain is the issue. No one should be able to have their cake and eat it too. That’s not balance.
Actually there’s not a problem of balance, there’s a problem of AoE. And to fix that ANet need to make a big rework over all classes… a rework that you will never see.
lordy lordy he speaks the truth
at least it’s not Wildstar…you can’t even tell whats going on with all that aoe insanity in that game.
And i would say not even AOE is the problem . .
AOE Burn fields and burn application is the issue IMO.
Both ele and engis have a lot of burn and CC . . . and heals . . . and burst . . . and mobility . . . well
Burn is a pin in the kitten . . . more if it is on AOE.
Umm, you do understand that engies burn is generally single target right? If your dying to turrets or flamethrower, your play is the problem, not the engineers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c
Easier said than done.
It’s like telling Americans, if you want 6 pack abs, all you got to do is eat healthy. That’s it.
How many Americans you see with 6 pack abs? I see most having kegs. Its really easy to get 6 pack, just eat healthy how hard is that? Apparently its very hard.
Just like turret engineers, if you want to win just go turrets, you see many people go turrets? Apparently its very hard to do so.
If engineer was easy everybody would do it, and everybody would be winning. Sadly its only a select few and they play a lot of games hence your likely to que up against them and they are likely to wreck you so hard that you have to come here and rage.
Yall whine so much.
If you know the secret to winning is going engineer than go engineer, don’t whine about it.
That’s why most of you are unsuccessful, because when you know the secret to something you try to get rid of it rather than reap the rewards until everybody is doing it and than something changes.
Stop whining if engineer is op and wins games, play an engineer, win games, when game is nothing but engineers the developers will do something about it. You guys just love making life hard for yourselves. I keep losing, and losing but I know if I go engineer I’ll win… “hey guys what class is best for soloing, I know its engineer but I just want everyone to know it again”. Engineers are soo good at winning, why am I not winning? Bad matchups, if I had engineer on my team I’d win (too lazy to go engineer myself and start winning games, I just like to whine about why I’m losing so many games). Going engineer is so easy but I don’t do it! Prefer to whine about losing to them, I really enjoy whining about engineers and letting everyone know if you play engineer you win games!
I know its engineer but I just want everyone to know it again". Engineers are soo good at winning, why am I not winning? Bad matchups, if I had engineer on my team I’d win (too lazy to go engineer myself and start winning games, I just like to whine about why I’m losing so many games). Going engineer is so easy but I don’t do it! Prefer to whine about losing to them, I really enjoy whining about engineers and letting everyone know if you play engineer you win games!
Nah just nerf incendiary powder and some other stuff and everything is gonna be ok, warriors had their time and they got deserved nerfs…now it’s time for engis and eles, it’s the circle of life
More likely i really want to see 80% of engis after nerf rerolling to another cheese and starting all over again.. Like lots and lots of wars did after adrenaline’s nerf, while many others (Including me) still play it with no problems..some ppl just can’t do kitten if they don’t play crazy op stuff\comps for some reason…
we’ll see we’ll see….
(edited by Archaon.9524)
Nerf might stacking into the ground for warrior/ele/eng.
Ex
Ele : dodge in earth is no longer a blast / water 3 on dagger is no longer a blast. Now the ele loses 200-300 power and condi damage while all other classes (ranger/guard/necro/mesmer) don’t have a nerfed celstial amulet.You cant nerf blast finishers for ele war while you dont do it for engi. Engis dont use blast finishers on cele rifle so its impossible to balance things this way.
If you want to nerf them you have to do it in a fair way which reduces might stacks of all the classes by the same amount. Thats also the reason why you cant reduce the max might stacks to ~10. That way you nerf eles and wars but engis stay as strong as they are.
If you want to nerf the blas on earth dodge then compensate it by giving it 3 bleed stacks instead of 1. Then again, thats the wrong approach.
Nerf hoelbrak/str and air fire sigils, everything else will hurt other classes/specs for which the nerf wasnt intended.
Seriously, so many people on these forums with nonsense ideas just to cry for nerfs.
My point is the problem is not with the amulet as a lot of people are saying. 5 classes don’t really use it because it isn’t that great on them. By targeting changes on ele/eng/war you reduce the effectiveness of the amulet without hurting it for the other classes. Blanket nerfs on battle/strength/etc hurt every class and will lead to the exact same meta.
The reason I used ele as an example is that I alt ele and can clearly see exactly what is the reason for celestial being the meta. This might not be the reason for eng. I cannot tell exactly as I do not play eng. Someone who does can probably look through their build and find something to nerf without harming build diversity for others.
If you’re saying take away their stun breaks, I kinda agree for Ele but Engi stun breaks are already bad.
You are aware that the meta ele build only has 1 stunbreak – armor of earth – on a 75 s (60 s traited) CD. Lightning flash is a pseudo-stunbreak, but you can still be easily dps’d.
In that regard, engineers actually have BETTER stunbreaks with slickshoes, arguably.