Guild Wars 2

kdaddy.5431:

Serious Question at what point where premades stopping you?

Serious answer:
Tier 2.
I could get through 1 one pretty well, 95% if pug.
Then I get to tier 2. It gets tedious, 50/50 pugs and premades. You progress if you have 2-3 good pugs in a row.
Then comes Tier 3. I don’t think I’ve won a single tier 3 fight in season 3 and 4 because come tier 3, 99.9% of all encounters were against premades.
So yea,

I voted yes because having solo/duo queue only for ranked will make ranked more balanced, while 5-man premades full of friends who just want to have fun together can still go into unranked and farm pugs there for their lulz. I think ranked should provide an even playing field for everyone where your personal skill really does count for something. (Matchmaking should also be 50/50 per match, not just forcing a 50% overall win rate by giving a forced win followed by a forced loss) That’s just my opinion, though.

So reading some of the posts here saying the premades are meant to stomp solo queers is as delusional as it can be!

Ranked Arena is a team sport and needs to be played as a team. So it should NOT have soloQ. There should only be premades. That will not only improve the concept of guild, making more friends, people partying up with similarly skilled players and eventually live up to the true meaning of MMO as such.

Those people who love soloQ and dont wish to play with others are actually not suitable for MMO concept. They should just rather stick to Single person shooting pc games.

Another thing that baffles me when I read people writing that personal skill is reflected via soloQ and not in a premade!! How is that logical from any sense?

I will form a premade with friends who are on the same skill set for PvP and play PvE with those who are better in that version of game etc. 5 player premade vs 5 player premade both using voice communication is the ideal setup for a Ranked PvP system!!

People will coordinate and compete at the best way possible and a player would retain his/her position in team if he/she is skilled enough for the same. This is how it should be actually.

Infact SoloQ for testing your individual skills should be limited to HotJoin and Unranked

Eagelseye.6312:

Another thing that baffles me when I read people writing that personal skill is reflected via soloQ and not in a premade!! How is that logical from any sense?

I will form a premade with friends who are on the same skill set for PvP and play PvE with those who are better in that version of game etc. 5 player premade vs 5 player premade both using voice communication is the ideal setup for a Ranked PvP system!!

People will coordinate and compete at the best way possible and a player would retain his/her position in team if he/she is skilled enough for the same. This is how it should be actually.

Infact SoloQ for testing your individual skills should be limited to HotJoin and Unranked

The reason why soloq reflects personal skill better is because we already know if you form a 5 man premade with 4 diamond ranked players and 1 emerald ranked player on voice comms and play vs random pugs consisting of duo and maybe trios. Then you have a better than 50% chance of winning your matches . The end result is that the emerald player gets “carried” to a division that he probably shouldn’t be in.

5 man premade vs 5 man premade I agree with you but that’s not what people have been complaining about.

Amaimon.7823:

kdaddy.5431:

Serious Question at what point where premades stopping you?

Serious answer:
Tier 2.
I could get through 1 one pretty well, 95% if pug.
Then I get to tier 2. It gets tedious, 50/50 pugs and premades. You progress if you have 2-3 good pugs in a row.
Then comes Tier 3. I don’t think I’ve won a single tier 3 fight in season 3 and 4 because come tier 3, 99.9% of all encounters were against premades.
So yea,

Don’t exeggerate it doesn’t help A-net to make the right decisions. A-net has already told us the vast majority of players already solo and duo queue. There is no way you are facing 99% 3 man groups or more in sapphire. Thats 100% bogus. A-net needs to tell us the average to put an end to this tomfoolery.

He just said the same thing over and over. I do agree with him. But he made is point after 5 minutes.

What….. how….. how are people defending a system that doesn’t restrict premades from matching against non-premades and calling it a competitive system?

The league system isn’t built to be a competitive outlet that rewards teams for beating other teams of players. It’s built to be a visible system of comparison and progression to stimulate PvP population through casual and achievable incentives. The organized PvP teams that actually play for competitive motivations don’t queue ranked together, they play through events organized by the community and organizations, and scrimmage in custom arenas.

The game DESPERATELY needs the solo/duo queue infrastructure for the 99% of its playerbase in order to even maintain an active playerbase in PvP. The overwhelming majority of players who play maybe 1-3 hours a day if they are lucky don’t have the time or incentive to log in, try to sync up with 4 of their friends, and team up to queue. If the current league system doesn’t provide the incentive to go through this trouble/effort, then restricting the system to the 10 people on at any given time only hurts the rest of the playerbase, and serves as a disincentive to play the gamemode.

“If a game is a good game and has the right infrastructure, the community will build the competitive scene around it.”

Current competitive teams don’t queue the league system. It is neither prestigious nor worth their time. What competitive teams want, more than anything, is meaningful bragging rights. That’s what they played for before there was even a reward system, and that’s what keeps them playing. They play in community organized events where they can actually achieve the goal they have, which is to play against other like minded people to earn bragging rights through competition. This is not the league system, and restricting the current system to teams would still not be a representation of this, because the league system is a progression/grind ladder, not a definitive “better/worse” team system.

The current league system is perfect for solo/duo queue though. It’s essentially a reward track with motivation to actually try to win. It’s stimulated the PvP population and has kept people playing. What it hasn’t done is kept competitive teams playing, since queuing for 10+ minutes in a dynamic queue until the MMR algorithm opens up its restrictions and throws together a hodgepodge of random players together isn’t competitive in any sense and isn’t fun for anyone involved in that scenario.

What 5-premade competitive teams need is automated tournament infrastructure in game, since that’s somehow needed and community organized tournaments aren’t good enough. Competitive incentive, documented in game bragging rights, and the potential to put in place unique cosmetic incentives beyond that for people that achieve victory (GW1 goldcape anyone?).

These aren’t mutually exclusive infrastructures, ANet is just making the smart choice in trying to create a system to support the 99% playerbase before supporting that last 1%.

jcbroe.4329:

What….. how….. how are people defending a system that doesn’t restrict premades from matching against non-premades and calling it a competitive system?

The league system isn’t built to be a competitive outlet that rewards teams for beating other teams of players. It’s built to be a visible system of comparison and progression to stimulate PvP population through casual and achievable incentives. The organized PvP teams that actually play for competitive motivations don’t queue ranked together, they play through events organized by the community and organizations, and scrimmage in custom arenas.

The game DESPERATELY needs the solo/duo queue infrastructure for the 99% of its playerbase in order to even maintain an active playerbase in PvP. The overwhelming majority of players who play maybe 1-3 hours a day if they are lucky don’t have the time or incentive to log in, try to sync up with 4 of their friends, and team up to queue. If the current league system doesn’t provide the incentive to go through this trouble/effort, then restricting the system to the 10 people on at any given time only hurts the rest of the playerbase, and serves as a disincentive to play the gamemode.

“If a game is a good game and has the right infrastructure, the community will build the competitive scene around it.”

Current competitive teams don’t queue the league system. It is neither prestigious nor worth their time. What competitive teams want, more than anything, is meaningful bragging rights. That’s what they played for before there was even a reward system, and that’s what keeps them playing. They play in community organized events where they can actually achieve the goal they have, which is to play against other like minded people to earn bragging rights through competition. This is not the league system, and restricting the current system to teams would still not be a representation of this, because the league system is a progression/grind ladder, not a definitive “better/worse” team system.

The current league system is perfect for solo/duo queue though. It’s essentially a reward track with motivation to actually try to win. It’s stimulated the PvP population and has kept people playing. What it hasn’t done is kept competitive teams playing, since queuing for 10+ minutes in a dynamic queue until the MMR algorithm opens up its restrictions and throws together a hodgepodge of random players together isn’t competitive in any sense and isn’t fun for anyone involved in that scenario.

What 5-premade competitive teams need is automated tournament infrastructure in game, since that’s somehow needed and community organized tournaments aren’t good enough. Competitive incentive, documented in game bragging rights, and the potential to put in place unique cosmetic incentives beyond that for people that achieve victory (GW1 goldcape anyone?).

These aren’t mutually exclusive infrastructures, ANet is just making the smart choice in trying to create a system to support the 99% playerbase before supporting that last 1%.

A-net has already told us that the vast majortity of people are already solo and duo queing. They are eliminating the ability of people to group with more then one friend casually for what seems like an extremely tiny increase in the average competitiveness of a match. You act like all that exists are solo and duo people and everything else is hardcore competitive pre-mades. I mostly solo and duo queue but I would say about 1/4 of the time I would trio. Now I can’t do that and my little group of friends one of us is SOL. This is eliminating grouping with friends for an semi- imaginary problem. Why don’t they release the data on the average a group for 3 or more faces all solo + duo so we can cut through this BS. The hyperbole is killing me quite frankly. Its either a problem or its not they have the stoopid numbers and should tell us.

Amaimon.7823:

kdaddy.5431:

Serious Question at what point where premades stopping you?

Serious answer:
Tier 2.
I could get through 1 one pretty well, 95% if pug.
Then I get to tier 2. It gets tedious, 50/50 pugs and premades. You progress if you have 2-3 good pugs in a row.
Then comes Tier 3. I don’t think I’ve won a single tier 3 fight in season 3 and 4 because come tier 3, 99.9% of all encounters were against premades.
So yea,

A few things here,

If you want to complain about the MM system making games 50/50 and you are unable to progress. That is a fair argument and i would agree that a 50/50 is a terrible system for PvP when its progression based.

That is not a premade issue

Im pretty sure we have all ran into premades, the question becomes were they literally stopping you from progressing or was it a even match? In season 1 i faced Team PZ 4 out of 5 matches in a row and everyone in the match was in legendary and i was not. That was frustrating and i made a complaint thread because i honestly felt a little cheated having to face a 4 man ESL team right when i was 1-2 pips away from legendary. Its not facing them that upsetme but the fact i didnt get some silly title. Ill play these guys all day long if Anet wants but give me my title and rewards and i will gladly play these matches. This was a premade issue but i still got to Legendary 2 and would of made it to 3 if it wasnt for que times.

S2 and S3 i and a bunch of other players literally walked into legendary in around 150 games and S2 we started in amber. In season 1-3 i saw more then a handful of ESL players solo queing. I saw trackstar, tarcis, OE, fivegauge, Zoose, kaypud etc etc etc.

The question i have for you is were these premades made up of great players or were you put into a 50/50 match up?

The argument of premades shouldnt be in ranked should be based upon whether or not the majority of premades can stomp pug groups. You said yourself you got stuck in S3 and 4. Did you feel potentially that this was the area you belonged?

Rigante.2470:

jcbroe.4329:

stuff

A-net has already told us that the vast majortity of people are already solo and duo queing. They are eliminating the ability of people to group with more then one friend casually for what seems like an extremely tiny increase in the average competitiveness of a match. You act like all that exists are solo and duo people and everything else is hardcore competitive pre-mades. I mostly solo and duo queue but I would say about 1/4 of the time I would trio. Now I can’t do that and my little group of friends one of us is SOL. This is eliminating grouping with friends for an semi- imaginary problem. Why don’t they release the data on the average a group for 3 or more faces all solo + duo so we can cut through this BS. The hyperbole is killing me quite frankly. Its either a problem or its not they have the stoopid numbers and should tell us.

Yeah, let’s cut the hyperbole. You can still queue with your friends perfectly fine. But, just how like competitive play is most strongly supported by either a solo queue or full team queue infrastructure, you and your 2 friends will have to pick the queue that best supports the team format you choose to play as.

You’re playing a gamemode that is aiming to be as competitive as possible. An MMR algorithm would create the most competitive matches with either an entire roster of solo queues, each person with their own individual MMR, to then team average MMRs and match teams, or with 5 man teams so that the algorithm only has to try to find another similarly MMR averaged team within the matchmaking threshold. So yes, that “tiny” improvement to competitive matchups is actually significantly important to most people who are queuing in a competitive environment to get the most even possible matchups they can in order to prove themselves against their current skill tier and progress through a system to show off where they place against the rest of the community.

Your 3 man queue might be fun to you, but a dynamic queue isn’t a competitive system and doesn’t allow a competitive environment to flourish. There will be a queue available to you and your 3 man. If that isn’t appealing to you, oh well, you’re in the minority. Find 2 more people and support an automated and community tournament system, play competitively with a restricted queue because you are playing with a competitive mindset, or go have fun with your friends in the environment allotted to you.

The poll is a joke.

Players are crying for SOLOQ the day they DELETE IT.

Removing it was bad.

Removing TEAM Q is bad.

But Anet can’t find proper solution other than DELETE THIS or THAT.

That’s fine. It DELETE my seriousness about this game.

My prediction in Season 12, they will DELETE the PVP TEAM.

Jourdelune.7456:

The poll is a joke.

Players are crying for SOLOQ the day they DELETE IT.

Removing it was bad.

Removing TEAM Q is bad.

But Anet can’t find proper solution other than DELETE THIS or THAT.

That’s fine. It DELETE my seriousness about this game.

My prediction in Season 12, they will DELETE the PVP TEAM.

wow, we will make it to season 12?

kdaddy.5431:

Jourdelune.7456:

The poll is a joke.

Players are crying for SOLOQ the day they DELETE IT.

Removing it was bad.

Removing TEAM Q is bad.

But Anet can’t find proper solution other than DELETE THIS or THAT.

That’s fine. It DELETE my seriousness about this game.

My prediction in Season 12, they will DELETE the PVP TEAM.

wow, we will make it to season 12?

Sure, the pvp population will be a grand total of 9 players with the q never popping.

You’re telling that make a team that work, with studied roles, classes and builds, the exact thing sPvP is made for, is what Unbalance this game? O.o
Are you serious?

For shure if you find a premade you lose if you’re in a full pug team, they’re playing this game correctly and you don’t.

Why don’t increase the LFG System, that already fork for almost every other game section (raid, fractal, dungeon, world event, even for mapping and seasonal events). Why that roaded system can be not improved to make players use it to join the fight?
You find people that you don’t know? You’re asking for that…
Queue will be longer? Not at all|! Queue will be Shorter, simply why the MM system will not even work for minutes searching the right combination for your pug team while you’re just ready for the battle in a newly made team. You open the LFG, add yourself to a team, start the ranked and find immediatly another team of the same level to fight, simply why the game no more need to find your teammates because you already made your team by yourself!
if I start a queue in solo I spend 5 minutes searching for a match, if I start with some friends or even a team I spend lesser than one minute to find an enemy team ready to fight.

Force the sPvP population to use the LFG for one month, they will scream a lot but then they will use it like in every other game area.
Don’t you want to make a team using the LFG? Go in unranked and have fun with casual pugs like you!
With an LFG system that work you can eventually add a non stacking system, increasing the balance of the game without increase the queue time.

“I don’t want to be forced to join a casual team to start a ranked!” ??
You’ll be casual matched anyway, you’ll just reduce the time you need to do that!

You’ll also be able to play with your friends and your strong premade if you want, or even to chose who enter in your team and who don’t. You hate eles and necros why they’re the worst class atm? You can kick them without mercy and start the match with your super balanced team as you always wanted!

Spend a second to open the LFG and reduce your queue by minutes!

honestly i dont see why groups need to be punished for people not being able to make friends and be social IN A MMO

Dominik.5162:

Silv.9207:

Why I can’t play with my friends?
I want to do ranked, not waste my time in unranked. We already obtain Nothing from sPvP, why the hell will i not able to play with my friends into ranked?
I also play a lot of time as a solo or 2/3 team, but why will I not be able to play with My Own Team?
“You’ll be able to do that in Unranked” WHAT?
Why the hell would I play in Unranked if I want to play with my friends in Ranked?

That change totally make no sense!!!!

Why should I pay for players that don’t want to team up, join a pvp guild or don’t have a social life, not even into the game?

All that you said have sense if you’re a solo player with no friends to play with, no more. If you’re a geek nerd without any kind of friends and that don’t even want to join a guild to find players to play with, that’s not my problem.

That’s just a really really BAD Idea!!

Ranked is meant to be a competitive mode, playing with a team with friends on ts just creates an imbalance no system in the world can account for.
There aren’t enough teams to justify you queuing in ranked as you will most likely only encouter solos or enemies that are made up of 2x duoQ + 1 soloQ, who have no relation to each other. It’s imbalanced.

If you just want to play with friends together, then go unranked. If you want to compete and have at least a little bit of a balanced ground SoloQ/DuoQ is the way to go.
Else you just want to farm easy wins with your team sitting on ts, carrying each other to legend which you don’t deserve.

TeamQ System in most competitive games make no sense, look at SC2, like almost nobody is playing it there.
ProLeauge teams are made up of 1on1 matches of every team member against the members of the other team.
There is no 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 ProLeauge.
The only game where TeamQ has ever worked maybe a bit was LoL due to its huge population.

Again most competitive teams form themselves out of good soloplayers, they make a team, sign up for Amateur Torunaments, then go to ProLeauge and so on and on.
They don’t go TeamQ and take that as practice, they practice their solo skills and organize scrims privately to train.

If you really want to play with your friend in a team, what is the problem to do so in unranked? ranked doesn’t need the imbalance you bring into it.
the only real reason you still wanna do ranked is to get easy wins over soloQ players who are not coordinated and together on ts.

Very well said. And because of it. GW2 nolonger have the sPvP community to support a team queue and solo queue at the same time. Solo players got tired of being farmed none stop by pre mades they’ve move on to other games, or game modes.(Had a sPvP friend list of over 40 starting in Season 1. Because of the kittenty system and imbalance, of the system with queuing full pre made teams against solo players. That list is now down to ZERO.)

The game mode became non competitive just a farm for pre mades unless they didn’t even know basic game mechanics.(Very small amount of pre mades fall in this category. And because capitalism took over and the pre mades closed their doors except to players better then themselves to carry their teams. Many many solo players quit the game.(No one plays a competitive sport just to have the cards stacked against them by a default.)

On top of that when the solo players voiced their opinions and concerns on these forums. They was meet with L2C ( Learn to Carry) (Learn to Cheese) (GET GUD SCRUB) that one was my favorite(More so when some of the solo players could really just 1v2 and 1v3 on a point some of these so called Elite pre mades members and still lose the match 100 – 500.(I guess to them “GET GUD SCRUB” meant to go politicking to get on a stable sPvP guild’s team and farm the other solo players.) That started to become so normal that players started to afk and perform other behaviors. Not conducive to a competitive environment. However players giving up in matches, was mainly because of the broken MM that mostly negatively effected solo players.

Its a team based game not a solo/duo game, either get more friends and pt up or stop qqong about “I’m solo blah blah , I lost blah blah” yeah I run in premades but we don’t use comms of any sorts cause we already know what to do, if this does get implemented you think the ques will be any better?

Edit, spelling, kitten auto correct, when auto correct, corrects stuff that doesn’t need it

Jskiirawr.2473:

Its a team based game not a solo/duo game, either get more friends and pt up or stop qqong about “I’m solo blah blah , I lost blah blah” yeah I run in premades but we don’t use comms of any sorts cause we already know what to do, if this does get implemented you think the ques will be any better?

Edit, spelling, kitten auto correct, when auto correct, corrects stuff that doesn’t need it

What you are essentially saying here is ‘please quit if you don’t have people to queue together with’. This is probably the fastest the way to make sure the game mode die.

You need to eliminate as many excuses of system failing as possible for a game mode that is designed to be competitive.

If you allow premade playing against solo/duo queuers, players will never be able to move forward and the scene will never grow.

If you play SoloQ that means that you account for roughly 10% (1/10) of the outcome of the match (if we ignore unpredictable factors like sudden DCs, luck etc). What this means is that your performance doesn’t matter as long is it isn’t overly good or bad compared to that of the other players. Unless you are leagues better than the other players, afk, feed, troll massively, or have no idea about how to play pvp you just do your thing.

How do you “move forward” in a game were your personal performance if it isn’t extraordinary in some way doesn’t make a difference to the outcome of the match?

MMR decides matches. Class stacking decides matches. Often enough the match making process itself has kittened someone over before the game has even started, be it by giving them a low MMR they don’t deserve, putting them with people that have a high MMR they don’t deserve etc.

It’s a 5 man vs 5 man team content. Yes, it’s competitive. Some people actually like to play a competitive team game as a team. Surprise surprise.

No matter what, this is a game. I don’t understand the entiltlement of some people here who tell others that they aren’t allowed to play ranked anymore just because their premade team has a higher chance of having better teamwork and therefor winning the game.

I usually play ranked in groups of 3 or 4, sometimes 2 people (we aren’t enough for a 5 man grp). We’re friends playing together. Our group usually looks something like: ruby, ruby, sapphire, emerald.

Most groups of 3 and more people don’t all have the same rank. They are simply friends playing together. In all honesty, I don’t even remember facing a group of 5 in ranked that didn’t consist of players with at 3 different ranks.

You are matched by the highest ranking player in your party. So if that player is ruby it’s maybe 3 ruby + 2 lower ranks (1 sapphire, 1 emerald) vs 5 single rubies in the enemy team. Even if the 5 man team has voice communication the odds are pretty even considering that their group has to cover for the 2 weaker players with teamplay.

Yes, it can occur that a 5 man team that all have the same skill level + voice com face a full solo team of the same rank in ranked PvP. In this case they have an advantage. But how often does this actually happen?

I honestly doubt that this kind of match up is the reason so many people have a bad experience in pvp. Honestly, there don’t even seem to be that many parties since from what I gather ANET did say that a big majority of people play solo.

Prohibiting teams from playing ranked will not change the bad match making we’re having atm. I won’t make games any better, it will just turn more players away from the game mode.

+ In the end everyone wants the shinys, the backback, the tag, the title. Why play unranked if you can play ranked? Say “competitive” all you want, as long as you can’t get all of those in unranked there will be lots of people playing ranked just for the rewards. Both solo and team players.

And how do you think removing 5man groups from ranked will make it any more competitive? You don’t think people will quit of they can’t play with more than 1 friend in a competitive mode? Your logic smh

Edit, also even after 5man groups are out of ranked, there will still be people qqing in forums about other stuff in ranked, so how is removing this feature which this game mode is about going to change that.

Silv.9207:

You’re telling that make a team that work, with studied roles, classes and builds, the exact thing sPvP is made for, is what Unbalance this game? O.o
Are you serious?

I think the devs are really out of ideas, people are leaving or playing less often and they are desperately looking for an answer that isn’t GvG, even if they know the answer is GvG.

Josh and other PvP developers, all these problems and different opinion of people will be simply taken care of when you prepare and implement Solo, 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 game modes. Different ranking system and prestige value in ascending order from Solo to Premade modes.

Also if you can implement PvP specific separate rewards for which we dont need to grind PvE things, that should be it.

Period!

+1000 to what Ashamir.9574 wrote here

Exciton.8942:

Jskiirawr.2473:

Its a team based game not a solo/duo game, either get more friends and pt up or stop qqong about “I’m solo blah blah , I lost blah blah” yeah I run in premades but we don’t use comms of any sorts cause we already know what to do, if this does get implemented you think the ques will be any better?

Edit, spelling, kitten auto correct, when auto correct, corrects stuff that doesn’t need it

What you are essentially saying here is ‘please quit if you don’t have people to queue together with’. This is probably the fastest the way to make sure the game mode die.

You need to eliminate as many excuses of system failing as possible for a game mode that is designed to be competitive.

If you allow premade playing against solo/duo queuers, players will never be able to move forward and the scene will never grow.

Can a football team have random players who want to play solo participating in a world tournament? If that can happen then football is same as lawn tennis where Solo or Duo players play.

Yes Anet Development team just needs to understand and create different game modes, so players who want to play solo lawn tennis game mode and teams who wish to play a more competitive prestigious “team” game mode of football as a “team” can do as per their choice and expertise.

To the question, when a premade was cause for a loss for me.

Answer: Constantly last season, 9 out of 10 matches I got matched with premade on my team I lost. Okay, the sample size is small (36 games played, 23 lost, 21 lost due to players that were part of a premade) because I got seriously fed up by that system.
Mind you, Ive got a winrate of >70% won ranked matches.

Now people will cry “BUT HOW CAN YOU KNOW ITS BECAUSE OF THE PREMADE ON YOUR TEAM”.
I see the players, I see how often they die. I see their rotations.
I record my matches to improve, and review my own performance – and my team’s performance – after each match. Call me an analytical kitten, but statistics are my hobby.

So, from my point of view:
Premades are bad. They create imbalance, their MMR is skewed. Having a premade on my team means a 99% chance of loss for me.

Guess what? I voted “YES” with all my heart. That 1% good, balanced premade isnt worth those 99% “just queueing with friends to have FUN” bad premades.

Ever thought how absolutely EGOTISTICAL that point is? You want to have fun, no matter that you WILL ruin the fun for at least 5 other people? You dont want to “waste time” playing unranked but you think its okay to waste the time of 5 other people?

Sorry, to be so harsh about this, but its the truth.

The poll was an either/or. Someone had to loose. Why should it be the absolute minority winning?

For me, the perfect solution would be:
Ranked solo/duoqueue and a separate Challenger League queue for furthering pro-scene.
Maybe even Challenger League matches made public, so you can join an ongoing Challenger League match in a browser and spectate the points (not the players).
Winner of Challenger Cup get a Statue with their names on it and a special finisher with 250 charges (bragging rights). Never gonna happen, but its seriously necessary nevertheless.

Dominik.5162:

Silv.9207:

You’re telling that make a team that work, with studied roles, classes and builds, the exact thing sPvP is made for, is what Unbalance this game? O.o
Are you serious?

For shure if you find a premade you lose if you’re in a full pug team, they’re playing this game correctly and you don’t.

Why don’t increase the LFG System, that already fork for almost every other game section (raid, fractal, dungeon, world event, even for mapping and seasonal events). Why that roaded system can be not improved to make players use it to join the fight?
You find people that you don’t know? You’re asking for that…
Queue will be longer? Not at all|! Queue will be Shorter, simply why the MM system will not even work for minutes searching the right combination for your pug team while you’re just ready for the battle in a newly made team. You open the LFG, add yourself to a team, start the ranked and find immediatly another team of the same level to fight, simply why the game no more need to find your teammates because you already made your team by yourself!
if I start a queue in solo I spend 5 minutes searching for a match, if I start with some friends or even a team I spend lesser than one minute to find an enemy team ready to fight.

Force the sPvP population to use the LFG for one month, they will scream a lot but then they will use it like in every other game area.
Don’t you want to make a team using the LFG? Go in unranked and have fun with casual pugs like you!
With an LFG system that work you can eventually add a non stacking system, increasing the balance of the game without increase the queue time.

“I don’t want to be forced to join a casual team to start a ranked!” ??
You’ll be casual matched anyway, you’ll just reduce the time you need to do that!

You’ll also be able to play with your friends and your strong premade if you want, or even to chose who enter in your team and who don’t. You hate eles and necros why they’re the worst class atm? You can kick them without mercy and start the match with your super balanced team as you always wanted!

Spend a second to open the LFG and reduce your queue by minutes!

How is your brain not able to comprehend this.
The overwhelming majority of pvp players play Solo/Duo, so how do you not understand that full premades create imbalances in matches and also in ranking.
You’re literally leeching off solo/duo players to gain rank because you have an easy match against the majority of them.

Force LFG like that worked in any pvp game ever? What are you even talking about?
I can tell you what will happen if you force TeamQ only: Nobody will kittening play it!

So get your head out of your kitten and play unranked like the unskilled casual you are!

Seriously: why premades make unbalanced a game mode focused on premades?

And yes, we’ll lose some players, eventually a lot of them, but we’ll obtain a more balanced game, with no more premades to rush over pugs, simply why there will be no more pugs, only teams that can chose classes, builds and strategy Before been all together in a random selection with no choice of what class you’re with unless someone reroll to play something else more useful for the team.
Pugs make sPvP unbalanced, not teams.

I played in soloq when it came up, time ago, and it was so bad that we lost a lot of players. and it was a Unranked section of the game!

Why have I to always hope to get a balanced team with competent players and balanced builds when i can use a LFG System perfectly working to match up with other players, do a fast strategy and build ceck and then start to play with fast queue and a complete team?
Fast queue simply why no matter the number of the players, the problem is the number of try the system had to do to find the right players with the same level as you are, the same, better or worst winy/lose % and at the same time try to don’t stack too many classes. You make a team, join the queue and start to play immediatly and easly added to the team lists of that X level, making you start quickly every time. more or less like is now if you start a queue with a full team.

Soloq ranked will make sPvP worst than ever.

if you really want to do that, try it before on Unranked and see if it work, Then (and not before) you can try to suggest that change for Ranked.

Silv.9207:

Seriously: why premades make unbalanced a game mode focused on premades?

And yes, we’ll lose some players, eventually a lot of them, but we’ll obtain a more balanced game, with no more premades to rush over pugs, simply why there will be no more pugs, only teams that can chose classes, builds and strategy Before been all together in a random selection with no choice of what class you’re with unless someone reroll to play something else more useful for the team.
Pugs make sPvP unbalanced, not teams.

I played in soloq when it came up, time ago, and it was so bad that we lost a lot of players. and it was a Unranked section of the game!

Why have I to always hope to get a balanced team with competent players and balanced builds when i can use a LFG System perfectly working to match up with other players, do a fast strategy and build ceck and then start to play with fast queue and a complete team?
Fast queue simply why no matter the number of the players, the problem is the number of try the system had to do to find the right players with the same level as you are, the same, better or worst winy/lose % and at the same time try to don’t stack too many classes. You make a team, join the queue and start to play immediatly and easly added to the team lists of that X level, making you start quickly every time. more or less like is now if you start a queue with a full team.

Soloq ranked will make sPvP worst than ever.

if you really want to do that, try it before on Unranked and see if it work, Then (and not before) you can try to suggest that change for Ranked.

I’m very sorry that you are unable to read, i already gave enough reasons as to why premades are not healthy for a game with the vast majority being solo players.

It is kitten hilarious that you think the game should be catered to the few premades instead of the majority of players playing the game mode.
AGAIN the vast majority of players play Solo/Duo, so why should ranked NOT be balanced around them?
Give me a single reason, oh right you don’t have one….

And if we only allow premades, then not only alot players will leave, but the game mode will straight out die.

Get it in your head already…it’s really boring writing with someone who doesn’t know what is happening in this game, education should help i heard.

Well, We’ll have for sure a solo queue duo queue in Season 5, it’s pretty obvious.

To well determined if this will be a solid change in the game we need to consider more pieces of the puzzle, Anet said they will bring many changes to the system so mainly we need to see if they switch the system from a grind system to a rank ladder system (basically more or less what we had with the old soloqueue leaderboard).

So if Legendary, Diamond etc. will be linked to the rank (=mmr and is a very good thing for a competitive game) is pretty obvious a mixed queue can’t work at all because full teams have too big advantage.

We need to evaluate it when Anet will give use more infos about Season 5

It is not about the question if there are soloQers more or players interested to play in a team more.

God, people please understand this that Tennis players and Football team cant be playing the same tournament!!!

Anet PvP development team if you have just some simplest of common sense please create Solo, 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 modes and all these arguments will meet their decisive end tbh.

If the vast majority are solo queuers, then why the restrictions? You should be queued against other solo queuers the “vast majority” of the time no? I mostly solo queued in this game. In fact when solo queue and team queue existed at the same time, I mostly solo queued into team queue. But if my friends log on and wanted to queue with me, I’d like the option to play with my friends in a frickin team game.

Also literally every other team game has a team queue because it’s the only option that makes sense. CSGO, Overwatch, Dota2, Call of Doots, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Battlefield… Every. Single. One. Restricting team play in a team game? You talk about players leaving, placing restrictions on the game, especially one that straight up destroys the social aspect of gaming, is the real killer. Placing bandaid restrictions on the issues of the game instead of healing the root of the problem is what led to the demise of the game in the first place. Class balance issues? Let’s just remove amulets instead of putting in any actual effort in balancing. Premade issues? Let’s just remove the possibility of playing with your friends instead of addressing the issue that is the godawful matchmaking system and league pip system. Good ideas guys!

“Premades can go into unranked to play!” This is the worst argument and the one morans used against arenas. “Oh you can just go into dueling servers and play 3v3!” It’s not the same if it isn’t official with no incentive to play. You want to feel like you’re being rewarded for your time. And since this is a team game, it would make more sense if the solo queuers were to just go to unranked right? If that were the case, PvP wouldn’t seem as much fun to you would it? So don’t suggest dumb things please.

Ideally you’d have a solo/duo queue and a team queue system like League of Legends. But League’s population goes into the millions and this game I’d wager barely reaches the thousands per region so that setup won’t work. If you had to choose between only having solo/duo queue vs the current setup, the current setup is the obvious answer. Players just need to stop coming up with scapegoats for their own failings but that’s what happens when the devs fail to promote growth and (surprise surprise) try to bandaid fix the population issue by getting PvE players into PvP, the players who have no desire to compete and only want to farm pips for achievement points and titles.

^+10000 This post is just exactly what the PvP Devs should be reading and acting upon

Eagelseye.6312:

Exciton.8942:

Jskiirawr.2473:

Its a team based game not a solo/duo game, either get more friends and pt up or stop qqong about “I’m solo blah blah , I lost blah blah” yeah I run in premades but we don’t use comms of any sorts cause we already know what to do, if this does get implemented you think the ques will be any better?

Edit, spelling, kitten auto correct, when auto correct, corrects stuff that doesn’t need it

What you are essentially saying here is ‘please quit if you don’t have people to queue together with’. This is probably the fastest the way to make sure the game mode die.

You need to eliminate as many excuses of system failing as possible for a game mode that is designed to be competitive.

If you allow premade playing against solo/duo queuers, players will never be able to move forward and the scene will never grow.

Can a football team have random players who want to play solo participating in a world tournament? If that can happen then football is same as lawn tennis where Solo or Duo players play.

Yes Anet Development team just needs to understand and create different game modes, so players who want to play solo lawn tennis game mode and teams who wish to play a more competitive prestigious “team” game mode of football as a “team” can do as per their choice and expertise.

How can you compare this game’s pvp to football?

If we have as many pvp players as football players, then I am also gonna support full team queue instead of solo/duo.

The current problem is that we don’t have teams and we don’t even have enough players. The sole goal of changing should be encouraging players to join pvp and compete.

If you allow premades to come into the mix in a dynamic queue, then solo players will feel frustrated because of that and will not keep playing.

Eagelseye.6312:

It is not about the question if there are soloQers more or players interested to play in a team more.

God, people please understand this that Tennis players and Football team cant be playing the same tournament!!!

Anet PvP development team if you have just some simplest of common sense please create Solo, 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 modes and all these arguments will meet their decisive end tbh.

Your sports comparison is horrible and makes no sense.

The most logical sports comparison is basket ball. Its 5 vs 5 and just like this game rotations is the majority of the game. Teams who might not be as athletic but better fundamentally can win championships left and right. Recently spoken about the Spurs and Mavs.

Its why there are so many complaint threads, you have people talking every direction not understanding what each moment means.

For instance one person made the comment that you have a 10% effect on the game which is incorrect. A great player can change games all by themselves. Ive written post arguing this. I was in a match we should of won but Zoose on a engy won a 1 vs 2 at our home node which turned it into a 3 cap for the enemy team with 25 pts for us left to score to win. I saw tarcis win a 1 vs 1 vs a warrior running the exact same build and cap our home point. Then we went on to hold a 1 vs 2 and drop a team mate into the down state. His team mates back back off of respawn to take mid which we won but had to leave since they won there home node and the far node.

Your comparing sports where its a player by himself and a sport where 1 player can not make a difference.

If you give me a ESL player and the rest of us are 5 in the MM. And we face a team full of 6’s. The team im on will win because we have a player who will consistently win his 1 vs 1 and be better in the team fights.

Just like in the NBA, having a star player can make the difference in a clse game unlike football where having Andrew Luck or Adrian Peterson doesnt really mean anything.

Everyone is seriously acting like Anet doesnt know who the best players are. In s2 and S3 people got to legendary and didnt lose any matches. There match making system has a idea who the best player in the game is.

They are simply trying to find the most corporate way of making a league workt hat makes everyone happy and still forces player to play alot of games. Solo/duo que wont fix any of the real issues.

See Ranked tournament is a team game and not a solo game. It is as simple as that, please STOP putting random logic in favor or only SoloQ.

There are games which are played solo like Tennis, and there are games which are played as a team like Basketball or Football. Lets not mix this. Some people like Tennis and others like Basketball or Football. Please dont mix and miss my actual point.

We cannot say that the world should just have Tennis or just have Basketball or Football. Let both exist side by side.

Those who want to go for a solo random fest can go and do whatever they want and let us team players be there and enjoy our team game. If you dont want to face a premade then play in ur own SoloQ or 2v2 or 3v3 game modes and let 5v5 or more be a separate league altogether please!!

Not sure why Anet don’t understand this and not sure why you solo players dont understand this….is it that difficult to understand and accept?

Exciton.8942:

Eagelseye.6312:

Exciton.8942:

Jskiirawr.2473:

Its a team based game not a solo/duo game, either get more friends and pt up or stop qqong about “I’m solo blah blah , I lost blah blah” yeah I run in premades but we don’t use comms of any sorts cause we already know what to do, if this does get implemented you think the ques will be any better?

Edit, spelling, kitten auto correct, when auto correct, corrects stuff that doesn’t need it

What you are essentially saying here is ‘please quit if you don’t have people to queue together with’. This is probably the fastest the way to make sure the game mode die.

You need to eliminate as many excuses of system failing as possible for a game mode that is designed to be competitive.

If you allow premade playing against solo/duo queuers, players will never be able to move forward and the scene will never grow.

Can a football team have random players who want to play solo participating in a world tournament? If that can happen then football is same as lawn tennis where Solo or Duo players play.

Yes Anet Development team just needs to understand and create different game modes, so players who want to play solo lawn tennis game mode and teams who wish to play a more competitive prestigious “team” game mode of football as a “team” can do as per their choice and expertise.

How can you compare this game’s pvp to football?

If we have as many pvp players as football players, then I am also gonna support full team queue instead of solo/duo.

The current problem is that we don’t have teams and we don’t even have enough players. The sole goal of changing should be encouraging players to join pvp and compete.

If you allow premades to come into the mix in a dynamic queue, then solo players will feel frustrated because of that and will not keep playing.

Why are you missing the basic point? Let solo players play their SoloQ game in a separate league and let us team players play our own!! Anet can easily do this by bringing different leagues, it is as simple as that…..in WoW there is 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 Rated Arena with more prestige associated with 3v3 and 5v5 system but there is still 2v2 where people like you play. At the same time there are Rated Battleground with totally different system and rewards in 10v10. All co-exist and players choose accordingly as they wish to play….why can’t this happen here!?!?!?

Eagelseye.6312:

Why are you missing the basic point? Let solo players play their SoloQ game in a separate league and let us team players play our own!!

Why are you missing the basic point? Anet already told us, that there’s simply not enough 5-man premades in the game to create a queue with decent wait times. There’s no point in making a team queue, because noone would be playing it. Even the team players (because they would give up after having to wait 2 hours in the queue only to see noone show up to face them).

Eagelseye.6312:

Anet can easily do this by bringing different leagues, it is as simple as that…..in WoW there is 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 Rated Arena with more prestige associated with 3v3 and 5v5 system but there is still 2v2 where people like you play. At the same time there are Rated Battleground with totally different system and rewards in 10v10. All co-exist and players choose accordingly as they wish to play….why can’t this happen here!?!?!?

The answer is simple. Our sPvP population is nothing like the one in WoW. It’s just too small. It was already too small on the day they merged soloq and teamq into one (that was after all the main reason behind that merge) and it’s got even smaller since then.

Dominik.5162:

I’m very sorry that you are unable to read, i already gave enough reasons as to why premades are not healthy for a game with the vast majority being solo players.

It is kitten hilarious that you think the game should be catered to the few premades instead of the majority of players playing the game mode.
AGAIN the vast majority of players play Solo/Duo, so why should ranked NOT be balanced around them?
Give me a single reason, oh right you don’t have one….

And if we only allow premades, then not only alot players will leave, but the game mode will straight out die.

Get it in your head already…it’s really boring writing with someone who doesn’t know what is happening in this game, education should help i heard.

I’m very sorry that you are unable to read, i already gave enough reasons as why premades are the center of this game and how to make everyone play in premades instead of solo, giving a lot of benefits.
Yes, if I want to make only the ACTUAL premades play, we’ll play in so few that there will not even be a match for years. But if we make EVERYONE play in “premades”, making them they’re own with a fast and easy way (LFG), then we’ll have a lot of players to play with, faster queue and more options for balance the game.

For shure the majority of the players in this moment play in soloq, i know, and that’s the Problem. Make them all “forced” to play in teams is the solution to all your balance and queue problems.
Do you want to do unranked? Go in solo and do what you want. Do you want to play in Ranked? open the LFG, join a team, start. 1 minutes and you’re into the match with a full team.
How can’t you see how easy is that?
A LITTLE rework on the LFG System as ANet did for the Fractal and it’s all solved.

Then, if for you is too hard to press “Y”, press on PvP, Ranked and then join a team, I can only hope that all the other players aren’t lazy like you…
4 buttons and you’re into a team ready for a match that will easly start in lesser than a minute why there will be no more need of a complex calculation for the game to match players in teams.
So hard to belive?

Thranriel.7210:

Shadow.1345:

Having a group doesn’t make the game any easier.

10 People of the same skill level. 5 are randomly put together, 5 are friends and in comms all the time. The game is easier for the 5 friends. Sometimes they lose, sometimes they win, but they will win more often because communication is important.

Except they AREN’T of the same skill level. You have a team of 5 people of assorted skill levels but might be voice chatting (OR might not, they may have just had a really lucky blowout of a game on a specific map and decided to party up because of it) vs. 5 people of comparable skill to the best person on the premade. but no communications.

I voted for DuoQ.
The MMR can’t work with all the random factors coming into, making it more imbalanced the more players of different levels come together. I can not expect a good game with 5 people from all skills mixed together, divide by 5, yelling TADAA. The MMR gain/loss is also distorted this way, watering down the point of an MMR (winning/losing due to good premades while my personal skill is unchanged. MMR in rollercoaster mode is, as kids say now, “cancer” to the system) and in the end, the whole matchmaking is becomming obsolete, because of uncalculable premade handicaps, differently skilled players, boosted people, actually good people being dragged down, people on voice chat while your guys are not even speaking your language (on EU server with 15 different languages).

So no, the more factors (as in friends/different players) to confuse the matchmaking, the worse it is and the worse it gets in future. To make the MMR work the teams need to be exactly the same players EACH TIME they queue to get a “team MMR”, but breaking it down on invidual ratings – what an MMR is supposed to be after all – is impossible. And “personal ratings” being in the hands of others is, that will understand every elemenatary school student, plain stupid. The MMR is just a mere random number, super rawly indicating in “very good, good, mediocre, bad, very bad” sort of thing. But that’s not enough for fun games.

As seen as in League of Legends, Dynamic Queue (people queue with whoever they want regardless of skill) is right now being removed for the next season exactly for that reason. And they have had literally millions of games played to analyze and gained feedback in a measurement ArenaNet could never think of.

Solo q’ers should only play against solo q’ers. Premades should only play against premades. You don’t need to exclude premades from ranked, just make sure they only fight other premades. They’ll have longer queues? Probably, because most people play solo, but at least let they’ll have the choice.

yanniell.1236:

Solo q’ers should only play against solo q’ers. Premades should only play against premades. You don’t need to exclude premades from ranked, just make sure they only fight other premades. They’ll have longer queues? Probably, because most people play solo, but at least let they’ll have the choice.

To do this you need to have a really large pvp players base

This is not the case.

That’s the reason why Anet needs to choose an alternative system if they want to put a competitive structure in the game.

The actual structure is a pure grindfest, not more not, less, there is nothing competitive inside.

Astralporing.1957:

The answer is simple. Our sPvP population is nothing like the one in WoW. It’s just too small. It was already too small on the day they merged soloq and teamq into one (that was after all the main reason behind that merge) and it’s got even smaller since then.

Yes but Anet is going about it the wrong way. Instead of trying to expand they are always reducing the game because players are leaving. Now if they follow their poll and remove team queue they will lose 95% of the pvp guilds. It’s a self-destructive process.

They need to add both options to give room for the population to grow, not remove options because the population is shrinking.

Then they also need to ask themselves why everyone is leaving. Everyone that bought this game at launch wanted a GvG mode and Anet NEVER answered. They presented Stronghold as GvG, with perhaps more than 5 players and with a guild ranking system just to sell HoT but it was just empty promises and a single map. They also promised larger guild arenas and never delivered them either.

When your expansion only contains 1 single map and we get to play it for 6 months before the xpac is released there is not much to go on. Specially when it’s not GvG but just more of the same 5v5 pvp. Balance, gameplay and build variety was the only thing that held this game competitive modes together, and now it is all broken.

They know what people wants yet always respond with a negative. It sucks because we all see the potential and wish for this game to live up to it.

There already is a competitive format for organized teams that practice together. It is the ESL league. Forcing solo queue allows the matchmaker to make better decisions about people’s individual skill level. It is like a highshool/college team wanting to play as a team in a pickup/hat tournament.

The next step should be to publish people’s rank so people that want to create competitive guilds and teams can get people of their skill level.

Faux Play.6104:

There already is a competitive format for organized teams that practice together. It is the ESL league. Forcing solo queue allows the matchmaker to make better decisions about people’s individual skill level. It is like a highshool/college team wanting to play as a team in a pickup/hat tournament.

The next step should be to publish people’s rank so people that want to create competitive guilds and teams can get people of their skill level.

When people are new to the game and they find guild mates/friends/ nice people to play with.

Thats when they start thinking about doing AG/ESL/Cup tournaments.

No one coming into the game says hey i want to join a team. Spend hours practicing 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2. That comes up later when you realize you like playing with certain people.

No reply from the Devs….they just want people to argue and seems clueless as to write what…

I would 100% support 2 separate queues. A solo/duo queue and a 5man team queue.

Anyone who says they should be mixed is just a person who likes to make a premade and stomp pug solos.

As Helseth said anyone who is serious about playing team q cannot possibly enjoy the current ranked setup. How can you tell if you are a good team if you are hardly ever matched up against other full teams? The true way to know if you are a good team is to constantly fight other full teams and in that way a full 5 man team q for ranked should be allowed. Then you know you will up against another premade possibly also on voice comms and with more thoughtful class composition. Isnt that what people want in a proper team challenge? Or do you want be the premade with voice comms and proper class comp and just abuse solo queuers?

And for the vast majority of PvPers (as ANET said) that play solo/duo, you can have the solo/duo q. Those players don’t care or don’t have time to setup a full team. Maybe like me they have just an hour or so to play when they login and those times may not be consistent so they want to jump in and play a few matches.

Before you say “play unranked” I would if they make a solo/duo for unranked.

^ exactly this is needed. PvP Devs just implement two separate leagues for solo/duoQ ers and full premade Quers and everyone will be happy

Eagelseye.6312:

^ exactly this is needed. PvP Devs just implement two separate leagues for solo/duoQ ers and full premade Quers and everyone will be happy

Not two separate leagues, two separate ques for the same league as Spartacus said. Should be fair in that if you que as a team you’re facing another pre-made in the same league as those Soloq’ing, assuming MMR is remotely close to fair.

Even doing this is still going to be tough for match frequency for the teams but at least it’s something in having a separate TeamQ from SoloQ and would quell a lot of the debate.

“One of the points discussed was the impact that 3-man parties had on the health of Ranked Matchmaking. After reviewing the data we have gathered, we have found that overall the benefits of a 3-man queue don’t outweigh the negatives. Starting in the 3.16 patch, players will no longer be able to 3-man queue in Ranked Conquest. "

Thats was for Smite, now you can olny duo q for ranked. 5 man premades have to gtfo.